It's 2021. Do we really want Paragon Protectors with the old version of MOG still?

[Tigraine]

17 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Regardless of what you may think, even quoting mandy patinkin, you're quite certainly wrong. My lexicon is quite adept.

 

Word mean what they mean. Challenge means what it means.

And waiting out a timer for a non-threat is not by any definition a challenge.  You may have an expansive lexicon, but your comprehension is lacking.

[arcane]

5 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

And waiting out a timer for a non-threat is not by any definition a challenge.  You may have an expansive lexicon, but your comprehension is lacking.

No one is claiming that waiting out a timer is a challenge. But it’s self evident that avoiding the timer completely is a challenge, because most posters in the thread seem unable to do so reliably.

 

If you’re facing a PP with MoG, you already failed the challenge and are facing the frustrating consequence of doing so.

Edited March 4, 2021 by arcane

[SwitchFade]

41 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

And waiting out a timer for a non-threat is not by any definition a challenge.  You may have an expansive lexicon, but your comprehension is lacking.

I would recommend against resorting to wholesale insults. Very unbecoming.

 

English is what it is, you don't get to decide what the meaning is, alone.

 

You can interpret it however you want in your head, but that doesn't mean you're correct. Challenge means what it means, your internal understanding of the word, notwithstanding.

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

No one is claiming that waiting out a timer is a challenge.

SwitchFade did. Tigraine posted this:

 

22 hours ago, Tigraine said:

If you can't interrupt or prevent MoG from going off, you end up twiddling your thumbs forever waiting for them to be vulnerable again.

SwitchFade quoted that post, and responded:

 

22 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

That's actually the definition of challenge...

 

 

---

 

4 hours ago, Infinitum said:

I take focused accuracy on most of my melee characters and that plus buuld up will allow me to take them out - did it many many times last week in fact.

This is most likely placebo effect. Focused Accuracy: +5% ToHit. Build Up: +20% ToHit. 95 -25 = 70% defense left over, still enough to floor player ToHit even at even-con. If you have Gaussian's Proc in Build Up, though, Boost Up gives another 40% ToHit, so that can make an actual difference. Only for 5 seconds though.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Vanden

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

SwitchFade did. Tigraine posted this:

 

SwitchFade quoted that post, and responded:

I didn’t read his response as saying that the thumb twiddling bit was the challenge part. Perhaps he will clarify.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

SwitchFade did. Tigraine posted this:

 

SwitchFade quoted that post, and responded:

 

 

 

---

 

This is most likely placebo effect. Focused Accuracy: +5% ToHit. Build Up: +20% ToHit. 95 -25 = 70% defense left over, still enough to floor player ToHit even at even-con. If you have Gaussian's Proc in Build Up, though, Boost Up gives another 40% ToHit, so that can make an actual difference. Only for 5 seconds though.

Tigraine said "if you don't..." That's the challenge. Stop them from MoG. Challenge means "demanding," in this case it is very demanding to stop them from firing MoG.

 

So, the very definition of challenge is what the person said. In an "if, then" statement such as "if you don't stop them from using MoG, then you end up twiddling your thumbs," thumb twiddling is the outcome of failing to overcome the challenge, in this case MoG. The result is frustration, which is defined as "being unable to meet a goal."

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

SwitchFade did. Tigraine posted this:

 

SwitchFade quoted that post, and responded:

 

 

 

---

 

This is most likely placebo effect. Focused Accuracy: +5% ToHit. Build Up: +20% ToHit. 95 -25 = 70% defense left over, still enough to floor player ToHit even at even-con. If you have Gaussian's Proc in Build Up, though, Boost Up gives another 40% ToHit, so that can make an actual difference. Only for 5 seconds though.

I don't know what to tell ya, I ran 15 Manticore last week and every character I had could take them out in MOG with FA running and Build up - not a placebo -empirical evidence something I'm running worked - which points to the combination of FA + Build up because the 2 that had no FA couldn't touch them still when I popped Build up.

 

Larger point.  We have ways of making them talk - it's doesn't necessarily have to be a wait fest.

 

There are strategies avail.

[Monos King]

Anyway I like current PP MoG but I don't mind a duration shortage, particularly one with an added dmg increase like was suggested earlier. The knives of vengeance already have a precedent for this with their 15s Glorious Vengeance move, and aside from that being awesome and exactly what is being asked for here...kinda odd that Crey has some chumps with stronger t9s than those incarnate class enemies. That's here nor there though.

 

Now, I like the current duration of MoG because it's punishing, and I thought it was pretty clear the intention of how it would challenge players was to present this pseudo AV that would run amuck and kill people if they weren't defeated in time and expend tons of resources either way...and not as a time sink. The current PP is still an appropriate challenge in that regard amongst non god players, but the majority of people are basically immortal once they aggregate and the surviving PP becomes nothing more than a nuisance.

 

If you're 1v1ing-3v1ing a protector at the levels they still spawn at, oh yes, it is every bit the quintessential challenge intended and expected. You strategize to get the boss in a position where it can't use or will be killed before popping it's t9, and if you can't then your death chances just went way up because it was already a fearsome face-off. I think of PPs in these instances when I say "yes they add challenge". And I find it very enjoyable as is. They simply lack the faculties to be anything more than a hindrance in well-sustained team play.

 

But shortening the duration and giving them attack buffs? That would be awesome. You guys would probably be executing a bunch of lowbies with that though.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Monos King

[Razor Cure]

30 minutes ago, Monos King said:

kinda odd that Crey has some chumps with stronger t9s than those incarnate class enemies. That's here nor there though.

Why is it not here nor there? I think that is a great reason the power should be changed. Especially when you consider how weak the other T9s are in comparison.

[Monos King]

21 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Why is it not here nor there? I think that is a great reason the power should be changed. Especially when you consider how weak the other T9s are in comparison.

Because I meant it from a lore stand-point and not the "Tier: Incarnate" gameplay standpoint that I now realize you might be talking about. But actually, at this point there are actually a lot of enemies that are waaaay stronger than canonically more powerful enemies (and higher spawning enemies) if they get scaled up, so making a move off of solely that would be a bit of a poor precedent...since we'd then go around looking for any low level enemies that were more powerful than higher level enemies based off of what powerset the lower level enemies have. 

 

Not to mention those incarnate class enemies, while they do have a weaker t9, are still a much greater threat than the paragon protectors anyhow - PPs aren't more dangerous than Knives of Vengeance bosses. I see what you're saying though.