It's 2021. Do we really want Paragon Protectors with the old version of MOG still?

[mechahamham]

I've heard players say that having Paragon Protectors continue to use the old, long-duration version of Moment of Glory was a balance issue rather than something that had been overlooked.

 

Personally, I think it's kinda played at this point. For example, I've been on teams that purposefully went on Manticore's TF at +4 difficulty, everyone knowing in advance that the MOG issue would be magnified. Our pacing was 'grind through enemies at a difficult, but doable pace... then come to a complete stop every time we encountered a Protector'. Solo, or in small teams, it causes hard stops like that at even level difficulty, even if you try to kite your MOGing protector around whilst fighting other NPCs. Characters that can do a HUGE amount of burst damage can sometimes defeat protectors from above the ~25% mark, but it requires very careful planning.

 

I can see this being a balance and difficulty tool to be used with an AV encounter-- Honoree for example. For standard bosses, though? I think it feels out of place and 'broken'.

 

In sharp contrast, Ted Dubois in the 'Summer Blockbuster Double Feature' trial seems to use the new version of MoG. Rather than 45s, it lasts more like the 15s of the player version of the power. (Ignoring that Ted is also an AV...)

 

So... it's past time to give Paragon Protector's old MOG the boot in favor of the new MOG.

[SwitchFade]

Yes, yes we do want to keep it the way it is.

 

PPs are one of the more challenging aspects of the game, no need to water them down.

 

Leave them as is, they're iconic. Hard no vote on changing them.

Edited February 27, 2021 by SwitchFade

[Sakura Tenshi]

Personally, I don't like it myself, but I'll play devil's advocate here and point a few things out about MoG/unstoppable/elude/Personal forcefield using enemies.

 

While they are a pain to deal with, they do add a certain level of strategy to the game, and especially add value to control powers and control focused ATs (who can lock them down leaving them unable to activate their panic buttons) as well as value to stalkers and long snipes which can kill them in one shot or take down such a massive amount of HP in a single hit that it bypasses the threshold. That said and a bit tangentally, I would like it if Nemesis Personal Forcefield did something other than just shield him. Paragon protectors can still attack, which means during their tier 9 state they're really really dangerous as they can fight you with impunity. All Fake Nemesis can do in their bubble is... Run away. And they do. Maybe give them the ability to still buff their allies while bubbled?

[Clave Dark 5]

We live with Malta Sappers and learn to target them first for lock-down or knock-down powers, and same for Tsoo sorcerers, so I think we can still live with the MOGgies.

[Greycat]

Yes, we do want them as is.

[Vanden]

No, we never wanted them with old MoG.

[Shadeknight]

Yes. Keep it.

[Haijinx]

Doesn't pure PSI ignore old MOG?

[nihilii]

I like (some) PPs having the old MoG for the reasons Sakura lists. But I also understand where people who disagree are coming from. It is almost two sides of the same coin. Yes, old MoG is frustrating at times; and yet sometimes a little frustration makes the game all the sweeter, for it captures your attention in dealing with the source of that annoyance efficiently.

[Burk]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Doesn't pure PSI ignore old MOG?

They don't have resistance to psychic, but the defense still applies.

[Carnifax]

5 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

We live with Malta Sappers and learn to target them first for lock-down or knock-down powers, and same for Tsoo sorcerers, so I think we can still live with the MOGgies.

This. Control is the key for dealing with MoG. Controllers and Domis (or anyone else with a Mez) should focus on locking them down

 

Failing that my Fire/Nature was popping aim and Rain of Firing them. Things like Freezing Rain can help too. 

[The_Warpact]

Enemies do not have the same powers as the ATs we play, example is Reichsman fist of tyranny. So just leave it as it is.

[Ibarra]

I never had too much trouble with PPs. If you focus them down with control or just pure damage before they can MoG then they're not really a problem.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Doesn't pure PSI ignore old MOG?

If I remember it correctly, the old MoG was "heal to full, drop to 10% health, and take 10% damage from everything but Psi", which I read as "Keep everything the same except take 10x damage from Psi"; this makes my Psi/EM Blaster quite happy. (she also enjoys the minotaurs in the ITF when she keeps doing normal damage while the rest of the team tries to nickle-and-dime them to death)

[AerialAssault]

Paragon Protectors are one of those enemies where, if you have the right counters available, you can trivialize them. Not everyone has those available, but that's the case with just about everything. One team's steamroll is another team's brick wall.

 

If I were to change something, I would probably change the duration to something less mind-numbing.

[Coyotedancer]

I don't mind them having it... It makes them interesting... But I do think the duration could stand to be shorter than it is.

 

The annoying bit to me isn't that they can go all YOUCANTTOUCHME. It's that they *stay that way* for what seems like half an eternity. <_< 

[arcane]

11 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Yes, yes we do want to keep it the way it is.

 

PPs are one of the more challenging aspects of the game, no need to water them down.

 

Leave them as is, they're iconic. Hard no vote on changing them.

This I guess. They annoy me but the game doesn’t need to get easier when we have vet level 100’s in other threads saying they can’t use their powers because everything is already dead. 

[Haijinx]

A strong ST attack chain is also pretty good against them.  Hit them EARLY and hard, so they don't have a chance to pop the MOG or Elude, etc.  Last night I was using crushing uppercut which has the chance for hold proc which was also quite good as a control.  

 

If you wait for all the AOE spam to bringing them down past the HP level where they pop it, then you have the mess described. 

 

As Arcaneholocaust says, the game doesn't need to be any EASIER.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Haijinx

[Outrider_01]

Water down the duration, problem solved.  Still a challenge, just not a shadow boxing work out when you can't hit thwm.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I do like the challenge of trying to 'defeat' the Paragon Protectors before they're able to MOG. However, I agree that it lasts too long. The duration should be halved. I think that would preserve the challenge while also reducing the long and drawn out annoyance factor.

[Sovera]

15 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Yes, yes we do want to keep it the way it is.

 

PPs are one of the more challenging aspects of the game, no need to water them down.

 

Leave them as is, they're iconic. Hard no vote on changing them.

...challenging? Where? The part where they don't do any particular damage and attack slowly for piddly damage while we can't hit them back?

 

We have different opinions of challenge and taking a break to go make a sandwich each time we don't finagle killing one before it enters MoG in a kill all mission does not register in my book.

 

 

The cyclops and minotaurs are less annoying in that we can still hit them even for reduced damaged so despite not having the PP option to CC or kill fast we can still go full team on them until they go down (plus debuffs still work and help speeding things).

[Yomo Kimyata]

It's 2021.  I really thought we'd have hover cars by now.

[Razor Cure]

17 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Yes, yes we do want to keep it the way it is.

 

PPs are one of the more challenging aspects of the game, no need to water them down.

Challenging? Really? I can attack till they mog, go up/down a floor, go make tea..come back, and one shot them. That is hardly a challenge.

Making something basically unkillable is not challenge. Killing them BEFORE MoG, sure, that takes a bit of tactics and planning, but after? It is just a time sink. Especially comparing PP Mog to other PP tier9s, mog is just far and away better.

Get rid of it.

 

[SwitchFade]

Since we're debating semantics 🤪

 

challenging

[ˈCHalənˌjiNG]

 

ADJECTIVE

1. testing one's abilities; demanding.

[SwitchFade]

Oh and, since everyone seems to be making food while playing...

 

You don't have to stand there and wait... You could, you know, go arrest the next group? I mean... The PP will follow you....

 

Darn old tactical thinking 🤣🤐