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Dual Blade / ???

krj12

By krj12
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krj12

krj12

Posted
Posted

I've been thinking about making a DB scrapper, but haven't seen too many builds on this forum.   

Couple of questions:

1.   Is DB better on a scrapper or stalker?  

2.   Need suggestions for a secondary.   My only requirements are that it has good survivability for level 54 content, 

and not have outrageous graphics that highly obscure or hide the costume.  

 

Any builds out there and how does it compare DPS wise with other scrapper sets?

 

Rathulfr

Rathulfr

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, krj12 said:

I've been thinking about making a DB scrapper, but haven't seen too many builds on this forum.   

Couple of questions:

1.   Is DB better on a scrapper or stalker?  

2.   Need suggestions for a secondary.   My only requirements are that it has good survivability for level 54 content, 

and not have outrageous graphics that highly obscure or hide the costume.  

 

Any builds out there and how does it compare DPS wise with other scrapper sets?

 

Expand  

 

1.  If you want to play Dual Blades for sake of the combos, it's better on a scrapper, because stalkers don't need them and don't benefit as much from them.  The stalker rotation ends up interfering with the DB combo rotations.  But if you just want to play DB for the sake of having two swords, and don't really care about the combos, go stalker.

2.  I also tend to avoid armor sets with obstructive graphics, so I've enjoyed Regen, Willpower, Super Reflexes, Invuln.

 

 

@Rathstar

Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting

Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior

Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable

Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer

Saikochoro

Saikochoro

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, krj12 said:

I've been thinking about making a DB scrapper, but haven't seen too many builds on this forum.   

Couple of questions:

1.   Is DB better on a scrapper or stalker?  

2.   Need suggestions for a secondary.   My only requirements are that it has good survivability for level 54 content, 

and not have outrageous graphics that highly obscure or hide the costume.  

 

Any builds out there and how does it compare DPS wise with other scrapper sets?

 

Expand  

1.  Dual blades is great on both stalkers and scrappers. Stalkers will put out a bit more damage, but that is almost always true. Scrappers thrive on blinding feint + attack vitals. Or with enough recharge blinding feint>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike. For stalkers I run BU>assassins>ablaiting>sweeping>powerslice on repeat. Whenever build up is up, which is often due to the ATO, it will trigger the sweep combo for a nice pbaoe.   Dual blades is a very fun and nice looking melee set that I fully recommend on either archetype. 
 

2. My two go to armors for dual blades on both archetypes is energy aura and bio armor. Dual blades is pretty endurance hungry and both armors help with that. Energy aura is the tougher of the two armors, but both are great for end game content.

 

Problem with bio is that even with minimal effects it still has some offensive fx that obscure the costume. Each of the adaptations have an aura that can’t be turned off. I make it work with my costumes, but it can be annoying. Also, ablaiting carapace is ugly for a split second and then the fx go away.

 

Energy auras only issue is that it has stealth built into it. Just makes your costume harder to see. This however is true of all stalkers while in combat. This only affect energy aura and ninjitsu on scrappers. I personally don’t think this makes it too difficult to see the costume, but you may feel differently. 
 

I think my final suggestion would be dual blades/energy aura. I honestly enjoy that combo equally on stalkers and scrappers. Stalkers almost always out damage scrappers on shared sets, but both do very respectable damage with dual blades. 

  • Like 2
Nerio72

Nerio72

Posted
Posted

I prefer DB on a scrapper but I've been playing it as a scrapper longer (since Live, my first 50 was DB/regen) I remade that toon as DB/WP and it is good as well at lvl 50+. I currently have a DB/regen stalker at lvl 33, and it's very good. I really like the flow with the combos on scrap (it's kinda soothing to me) and like @Rathulfr said it's not as good on a stalker (just meaning combo wise, the powers are still great!)

 

DB is probably my personal favorite 😁

Thrax

Thrax

Posted
Posted

I'd do DB/SR.  Wont obstruct your costume any and helps get perma hasten easier/cheaper.  I have a DB/EA.  While I like playing him, I wish I'd have just rolled DB/SR.  You can turn the stealth cloak off when you're not fighting.  You can skip it all together if you'd like.  The rest will still affect your characters look no matter how you set it on /EA though.

krj12

krj12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I've seen builds for willpower and invuln in other threads.  Anyone have builds for SR and EA?

 

I'm curious about defense and resist caps for a stalker vs scrapper, are they the same?      I want to be able to handle anything a level 54 mob can dish out.   Also something that has good  DDR would be desirable -  hate it when my defense gets stripped in an ITF.

 

 

Nemu

Nemu

Posted
Posted

There are a few posts on DB.

 

DB/EA>DB/SR. EA has all the tools that allow you to free up slotting options in DB to make room for more procs.

Liberty, Torchbearer, Excelsior, Everlasting

Jezebel Delias

Level 50 Fire/Elec/Mace Blaster

 

I am the Inner Circle!

Saikochoro

Saikochoro

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/10/2021 at 12:50 AM, krj12 said:

I've seen builds for willpower and invuln in other threads.  Anyone have builds for SR and EA?

 

I'm curious about defense and resist caps for a stalker vs scrapper, are they the same?      I want to be able to handle anything a level 54 mob can dish out.   Also something that has good  DDR would be desirable -  hate it when my defense gets stripped in an ITF.

 

 

Expand  

I can share my db/ea builds a bit later.

Defense softcaps 45% is same for all archetypes, incarnate softcap is higher (I think 59% or something like that). Stalkers and scrappers have the same resist caps 75%.  Stalkers and scrappers also get the same armor modifiers though there are usually a couple powers that are different in the armors. 
 

Both SR and EA will easily reach softcap on either archetype.  They also both give nice + recharge. You can build both for decent resists as well.

 

EA will have better endurance management and has a nice heal. It also has moderate DDR. Since it is typed defense it has a psi hole, but honestly I have never had a problem with it. 
 

SR being positional defense does not have the psi hole. It has the best DDR you can get. It doesn’t however have native recovery and healing boosts. 

 

Both are great sets. I personally like EA better though. 

Edited by Saikochoro
Squishor

Squishor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 1:10 AM, Saikochoro said:

I can share my db/ea builds a bit later.

Defense softcaps 45% is same for all archetypes, incarnate softcap is higher (I think 59% or something like that). Stalkers and scrappers have the same resist caps 75%.  Stalkers and scrappers also get the same armor modifiers though there are usually a couple powers that are different in the armors. 
 

Both SR and EA will easily reach softcap on either archetype.  They also both give nice + recharge. You can build both for decent resists as well.

 

EA will have better endurance management and has a nice heal. It also has moderate DDR. Since it is typed defense it has a psi hole, but honestly I have never had a problem with it. 
 

SR being positional defense does not have the psi hole. It has the best DDR you can get. It doesn’t however have native recovery and healing boosts. 

 

Both are great sets. I personally like EA better though. 

Expand  

Do you by chance know how much +rech you need to run blinding feint>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike on a scrap? I am running db/bio right now and can run the BF+ vitals no prob but was looking to see what I need to run the higher dps chain.

Saikochoro

Saikochoro

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/10/2021 at 1:52 AM, Squishor said:

Do you by chance know how much +rech you need to run blinding feint>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike on a scrap? I am running db/bio right now and can run the BF+ vitals no prob but was looking to see what I need to run the higher dps chain.

Expand  

I actually am not sure. I think my db/bio scrapper build has 191.25 global recharge with perma hasten, which ironically is more than my db/ea scrapper build unless I’m surrounded by lots of mobs on EA. I have my db/ea scrapper to 50, but my db/bio scrapper is in his 30s. I’ve been too lazy to build it on test to see if it can run that combo. I think it’s pretty darn close to what I will need though. I’ll have to wait till I hit 50 to tell you for sure though. 

Edited by Saikochoro
Squishor

Squishor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 2:26 AM, Saikochoro said:

I actually am not sure. I think my db/bio scrapper build has 191.25 global recharge with perma hasten, which ironically is more than my db/ea scrapper build unless I’m surrounded by lots of mobs on EA. I have my db/ea scrapper to 50, but my db/bio scrapper is in his 30s. I’ve been too lazy to build it on test to see if it can run that combo. I think it’s pretty darn close to what I will need though. I’ll have to wait till I hit 50 to tell you for sure though. 

Expand  

Cool. ty. I am curious to see your DB/EA build when you have a chance. any help is appreciated! 🙂

Saikochoro

Saikochoro

Posted
Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 2:31 AM, Squishor said:

Cool. ty. I am curious to see your DB/EA build when you have a chance. any help is appreciated! 🙂

Expand  

Absolutely. I can post my db/ea and db/bio builds for both scrappers and stalkers later tonight. 

  • Like 1
Saikochoro

Saikochoro

Posted
Posted

 Here are some dual blades builds for scrappers and stalkers for you to check out.

 

Dual blades/Bio Scrapper.  Built to run blinding feint>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike on repeat.  Also built with barrier core ephipany as the destiny to cover the last bit to softcap e/n defense.  Also, has shadow meld for dicey situations.  You could go ageless if you want to for more recharge, but probably not necessary.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual blades/Bio scrapper.  Build for blinding fient + attack vitals combo on repeat.  Very similar, but changed placement of ATOs for different rotation. Same goals for mitigation as the first build.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Energy Aura scrapper:  Built for blinding fient + attack vitals.  Doesnt need any incarnates to shore up defensive weaknesses so you can choose whatever you want.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Bio Stalker:  Built to run Build up>assassins strike>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike>power slice on repeat.  Build up will only be available some of the time, but fairly often due to the assassins mark ATO.  When build up is available this rotation will trigger the sweep combo, which is a nice pbaoe. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Energy Aura stalker:  Build to run same rotation as the bio stalker.  This one is tougher, but will do slightly less damage.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  • Like 5
lemming

lemming

Posted
Posted

My badger is a DB/WP scrapper.  Not built for anything in particular, but I tried dropping hasten and I can keep running combos at this point.  I'd have to look to see how much recharge she's got from set bonuses.   Could probably tune her a bit since currently, she can't run out of endurance.  (Too many +End procs I think. 😄 )

Squishor

Squishor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/10/2021 at 5:46 AM, Saikochoro said:

 Here are some dual blades builds for scrappers and stalkers for you to check out.

 

Dual blades/Bio Scrapper.  Built to run blinding feint>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike on repeat.  Also built with barrier core ephipany as the destiny to cover the last bit to softcap e/n defense.  Also, has shadow meld for dicey situations.  You could go ageless if you want to for more recharge, but probably not necessary.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual blades/Bio scrapper.  Build for blinding fient + attack vitals combo on repeat.  Very similar, but changed placement of ATOs for different rotation. Same goals for mitigation as the first build.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Energy Aura scrapper:  Built for blinding fient + attack vitals.  Doesnt need any incarnates to shore up defensive weaknesses so you can choose whatever you want.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Bio Stalker:  Built to run Build up>assassins strike>ablaiting strike>sweeping strike>power slice on repeat.  Build up will only be available some of the time, but fairly often due to the assassins mark ATO.  When build up is available this rotation will trigger the sweep combo, which is a nice pbaoe. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dual Blades/Energy Aura stalker:  Build to run same rotation as the bio stalker.  This one is tougher, but will do slightly less damage.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Expand  

Thanks for this. I appreciate it!

 

krj12

krj12

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Decided to go DB/SR for the moment,  since it fit my character concept the most.   May reroll if it doesn't play well,  EA also looks interesting.   

Hope someone out there has a build for the combination.

hejtmane

hejtmane

Posted
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 1:26 PM, krj12 said:

I've been thinking about making a DB scrapper, but haven't seen too many builds on this forum.   

Couple of questions:

1.   Is DB better on a scrapper or stalker?  

2.   Need suggestions for a secondary.   My only requirements are that it has good survivability for level 54 content, 

and not have outrageous graphics that highly obscure or hide the costume.  

 

Any builds out there and how does it compare DPS wise with other scrapper sets?

 

Expand  

My favorite on live was EA  it pairs real while together and you get +recharge from the aura to help with attack chains

FlashBack to old days: Pinnacle

Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50

Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50

Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50; Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50; Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

Thrax

Thrax

Posted
Posted

I'm currently leveling up db/sr.  Haven't made a build yet though.  I have db/ea but /ea is not great imo.  It is good, just not great.  

Thrax

Thrax

Posted
Posted

Well, there is a rough one that I am not done with yet but might have some ideas.  I basically took the /ea build and swapped out /sr.  I think I'm gonna slot the other build more so I can use 1k cuts if I feel like it, but who knows.

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1531&c=736&a=1472&f=HEX&dc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

Thrax

Thrax

Posted
Posted

Here is the DB/SR that I might end up going with if you're still interested in a build.  It is 3 seconds off perma hasten and has 59%+ incarnate soft cap defense, but has to use agility alpha.  I usually take musculature on scrappers but this might be worth it not to on this guy.  Still can use Sweep combo if you'd like as well as attack vitals.  

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1553&c=736&a=1472&f=HEX&dc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

StriderIV

StriderIV

Posted
Posted
  On 3/15/2021 at 3:33 PM, SomeGuy said:

I've got a lot of DB experience. I can absolutely say ignoring combos is how you get the beat performance out of it. That's annoying, cause the combo system for DB is pretty fun, but that's the truth. Before the EM changes, DB was the second highest ST damage you could get on a melee. 

Expand  

Good to know! On a scrapper/tanker/brute (I know it's different for a Stalker with AS), what would you say are the optimal attack strings with high recharge?

Hjarki

Hjarki

Posted
Posted
  On 3/15/2021 at 8:34 PM, StriderIV said:

Good to know! On a scrapper/tanker/brute (I know it's different for a Stalker with AS), what would you say are the optimal attack strings with high recharge?

Expand  

 

Dual Blades (1.6)        66.05   ['Nimble Slash', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Ablating Strike', 'Nimble Slash', 'Assassins Blades', 'Ablating Strike']
Dual Blades (1.9)        66.95   ['Ablating Strike', 'Assassins Blades', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Moonbeam', 'Ablating Strike', 'One Thousand Cuts']
Dual Blades (2.05)       68.57   ['Power Slice', 'Ablating Strike', 'Moonbeam', 'Power Slice', 'Ablating Strike', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Assassins Blades']
Dual Blades (2.2)        69.60   ['Nimble Slash', 'Ablating Strike', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Moonbeam', 'Power Slice', 'Ablating Strike', 'Assassins Blades']
Dual Blades (2.35)       70.72   ['Nimble Slash', 'Assassins Blades', 'Ablating Strike', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Nimble Slash', 'Moonbeam', 'Ablating Strike']
Dual Blades (2.65)       74.14   ['Power Slice', 'Ablating Strike', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Moonbeam', 'Ablating Strike', 'Assassins Blades']
Dual Blades (3)          75.68   ['Nimble Slash', 'Ablating Strike', 'Assassins Blades', 'Moonbeam', 'Ablating Strike', 'Sweeping Strike']
Dual Blades (3.5)        76.32   ['Power Slice', 'Moonbeam', 'Assassins Blades', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Ablating Strike']
Dual Blades (4)          82.50   ['Ablating Strike', 'Assassins Blades', 'Sweeping Strike', 'Ablating Strike', 'Moonbeam']

 

The numbers in parentheses are the total haste for the attack (including internal recharge), so 2.75 would reflect perma-Hasten levels of recharge. In practice, hitting that 2.05 should be possible on a non-Hasten build while most of the higher numbers would likely include Hasten. With that in mind, I'm not a particularly big fan of the 'pylon test' notion of single target rotations because it's so rarely of any relevance in actual game play.

 

I'd also second the "ignore combo" notion. In theory, Sweep would work well on a Stalker since it involves just 'good' attacks in a sensible sequence, but it's buggy enough that I can never get it to work reliably.

 

For secondary, Ninjitsu just makes your build so much easier to manage. Because Dual Blades has only melee and PBAoE attacks, you need to find other sorts of attacks elsewhere to get access to the set bonuses you want - Ninjitsu's ranged AE and Confuse both give you great options there. Ninjitsu is also an unusually 'high impact' set in that it packs most of its value into single powers rather than spreading them across many. You can easily get over-capped defenses in a build with plenty of utility, use Caltrops to provide a lot of mitigation and just heal up the damage that gets through.

 

Consider the following:

  Reveal hidden contents
  • Thanks 2
TCUFROGS

TCUFROGS

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am still waiting on a really good build for DB/EA I really want to make one but haven't found an OP build. INF isn't an issue. 

 

Saiko has the best one so far! Might have to pull the trigger on that one! 

Edited by TCUFROGS
SomeGuy

SomeGuy

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 3/15/2021 at 8:34 PM, StriderIV said:

Good to know! On a scrapper/tanker/brute (I know it's different for a Stalker with AS), what would you say are the optimal attack strings with high recharge?

Expand  

Blinding Feint - Abalating Strike -Sweeping Strike - Abalating Strike

 

BF slotted with scrapper crit chance and gaussian build up.

AS slotted with resistance debuff.

SS slotted with resistance debuff.

 

I've gotten mid 1 minute pylon times with this chain on a DB/BIO. Low 1 minute pylon times with BF MB AS SS BF AS SS AS. I've gotten high 1 minute times with DB/ELA.  I'd take a guess you could do do low 2 minute times with DB/EA.

Edited by SomeGuy
Anecdotal stuff.
  • Like 1

Pylon and Trapdoor Results Spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d0VruEHGktnPFvtMLF_MdpKPBe0wgUhzyGvb1DQNQQo/edit#gid=0

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