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I have never before specifically built for 801.  But with 801.A, I am looking for a more durable build.  801.A is 5k sustained dps, with frequent 10k dps bursts, and some 25+k dps bursts, along with -300 defense, -300 resist, -100 to-hit, -endurance, -recovery, -recharge, and just about everything else you can imagine.  Almost any weakness will be pried open and heavily exploited.  Also note, 801.7 and above are All-EB maps, so things like OG+Stun_Grenades will not be of much use.

 

So what build, any build other than Stone Armor, will be the better tank?  Of my exiting builds can Skylark be made more durable, since over all she’s more steady and easy to drive, … or … Do I go toward refining Sera, even though she’s much harder to drive and much less steady, does she have more potential if I put more player resources and concentration into her?  Or perhaps an improved Asja Build?  Maybe an Improved Lucy?  Or is there another completely different Tank that’s a better answer all together?

 

 

Asja – Kat/Ena Brute Rating +4x6:   I run most 801s with Asja.  She’s the most overall flexible and independent build with a good balance of offense, defense, and ability to taunt and gather aggro.  However, in 801.A the resist debuffs are really getting to her, and the small gap in DDR is also an issue.

 

Dahlia – RadA/Kat Tank Rating +4x6:  This is my primary ‘tank built’ tank.  She gathers, pulls, and holds aggro better than any other build.   In 801.5 and down she balances out very well vs defense-based armors.   However in 801.7 and up, the -300 defense and lack of DDR destroys her.  She can still manage smaller groups on pure resist and healing, but it is a major stress, and as soon as the debuffers start piling up, she goes down very fast.  Resist alone is not enough, and the lack of DDR means any defense she has WILL eventually be stripped and she’ll be -50 defense in a blink, and then dead shortly thereafter.

 

Lucy – SD/RadM Tank Rating +4x6 (+4x8 with the rebuild below):  What I previously considered my most durable tank, but with flaws.  801.6 and down she’s NEVER been defeated.  However, in 801.7 and up, the lower max defense combined with -300 defense even vs DDR Cap drops her defense below the level where her resists can sustain the damage alone.  That means she MUST be able to-hit her targets to leach health.  -100 to-hit shuts her healing down.   Furthermore, she’s weak to sappers.  And when she gets debuffed, those sappers start dropping her endurance like a rock.  Give me +10 defense buff and a tactics or two, and she’d be unstoppable, but as is, without support she will drop like a rock when the wrong debuffs start hitting.

 

Skylark – Inv/RadM Tank Rating +4x7:  Skylark was previously retired, primarily due to low damage.  However, with 801.7 and up, she’s found new life.  On a team, I’m very happy with her performance, she’s very hard to kill, but she still can be killed in 801.A.  She’s not died ‘yet’ in 801.9 and down, but I suspect she’s probably killable in those as well.  The primary issues with her are the DDR gap, and Sappers.  The DDR gap means I have to watch my defense, and if it falls to low, I need at least a small purple.  She won’t instantly cascade, but she can be dropped into the negatives on defense.  If that’s combined with heavy -resist or a sapper, she’s dead.   Usually her defense falls slowly, giving me time to react, but that also means that eventually over time she can attrition out and inspirations dry up.  She also has issues with to-hit, and when heavily stressed, the inability to-hit and heal will eventually kill her.  Take even a little pressure off, x7 vs x8, and she's good.  But at full +4x8 801.A she goes down, and much faster and sooner than I'd like.

 

Sera – SR/DM and SR/RadM Tank (test builds) Rating +4x8:  These are only on the test server, but are also the only builds I’ve managed to keep alive 30+m.  Primarily DM.  DM helps deal with the sapper issue and the -to-hit issues.  SR seals up DDR.  The weakness here is resistances.  She needs amps, dampeners, and base buffs to seal up resistances, and doesn’t have any over-cap resist buffer to deal with heavy debuffs.  However, the scaling resists do help considerably with resistance debuffs once you otherwise seal resists first.   Which leaves Alpha and HP.  She can’t take nearly the Alpha that any of the other builds can, but if she pulls and slows the Alpha down, she can hold at half-health pretty steady. This works well right up until a resist clicky drops and I haven’t proactively countered with the next resist clicky or inspiration.   When the resist drops while under heavy debuffs, she dies instantly.  She also still has mild issues with -to-hit debuffs, but those are no where nearly as fatal as with any of the other builds.

As a fun note, 801.A has managed to cascade her defenses down to the 40s with full saturation and over-aggro cap.  Given the 95ddr that's a massive amount of debuff landing even with i-cap level defenses.

 

AE 801.9 Notes 04.jpg

Kat ENA - Mu 1i - [i25].mxd Rad Kat Tank - Radicat II - Mu 3f - [i25].mxd SD RadM Tank - Alpha 5b - [i25].mxd  SR DM Tank - Prototype 801 - DN 2i - [i25].mxd  Inv RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - DN 8b - [i25].mxd

Edited by Linea

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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Are we talking in teams or solo? I vaguely remember taking my Fire Armor through one of your teams and surviving without much problem because we spammed Barrier. You're the expert with the hundreds of times you must have taken teams through the missions, how long do enemies usually survive with all the AoEs flying around?

 

Not on your list but Ice Melee's Ice Patch can do a lot of mitigation (not 100% mitigation as mobs stop flopping and start hitting after the first seconds, but still mitigation). I've posited that a Dark/Ice should be pretty durable between Dark Regen huge heal and short CD and Ice Patch giving breathers.

 

Dark/EM and sharing the stuns should also bring out of the box mitigation.

 

Dark/Stone same thing with a spam of Fault on top of Oppressive Gloom though I am not sure how much this actually plays out in real game instead of spreadsheets.

 

Ice Armor has a little bit of all worlds. Some DDR, some debuff protections, quick recharging endurance clickie, mitigation with the aura.

 

 

To be honest your missions are so out of common experience I have no shared ground to give an opinion. They are missions built to take Tanks apart. The only real survival is not so much the tank but the massive AoE damage to kill stuff before it kills us

@sovera in Everlasting - I love teaming up so hit me up.

 

Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

 

Fire Armor/Martial Arts: the Brunker - Altitis cure.

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Bio Armour/Mace - I have one that is used occasionally for Hami tanking. With Ablative Carapace up, she has 4800 HPs, 852% regen, 360% recovery

 

Mace is a decent attack set with good damage, but to be honest as a tank in your AE Missions your role is to hold agro not do the damage.

 

Screenshot 2021-03-15 211842.png

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The Kallistiverse site:

https://kallistiverse.mardona.com/

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I think the RoP changes on Beta might mean that you have to rethink the builds which are leaning into a RoP>Melee Hybrid>RoP rotation to bolster resists. I'm not sure what you'd use to make up the difference. 

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7 hours ago, Sovera said:

Dark/Stone same thing with a spam of Fault on top of Oppressive Gloom though I am not sure how much this actually plays out in real game instead of spreadsheets.

Stone can simply rotate Fault and Tremor. Both can slot Force Feedback and you can slot Fault for Disorient otherwise. The result is that enemies spend virtually all of their time disoriented or flopping - I'm not sure Oppressive Gloom is even particularly helpful for such a strategy. You could potentially get a similar benefit with the Triumphant Insult proc.

 

Electric and Super Strength are less effective versions of this approach (longer recharges, knockback that needs suppression). The end cost is also... considerable.

 

Note: Radiation can do something similar with the Disorient from Atom Smasher and Overwhelming Force + Avalanche + Superior Avalanche procs in Irradiated Ground. However, Atom Smasher doesn't knockback (so no Force Feedback) and doing this sort of thing would probably impact your dps in a very negative way.

 

In terms of the primary, it sounds like what you're doing involves some very different content. From your list of characters, it seems safe to assume there's little to no Psi damage, so you can ignore that problem. However, you've got a lot of unusual attacks and defenses, so you probably want a set that's at least partially defense-focused.

 

So I'm thinking Bio/Stone. But any Tanker will be relatively slow unless you're chewing down reds.

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Posted (edited)

RE:

  • As Durable as possible solo, so they need the least buffs.  There are times I may be isolated holding back the horde while the team regroups.  It's not at all unusual for 801.7 and up to literally kick you out the front door.
  • 801.7 and up are All-EB maps.  Stuns will not work well, but KB does.
  • Bio/ works well right up until it gets shredded due to DDR, RDR, or -Recharge issues.   Fights are almost non-stop, so when your defenses eventually slip, you crash hard.  I have a pretty good Bio/ I run with, and he dropped a handful of times in a 7, and I'm wanting to build for a 10 (A).
  • I'm not at all against alternate Non-Rune Builds.   At the same time, I'll deal with Rune when it happens.  I frequently grab Demonic and Wedding Band, if I don't want to change or completely rebuild, I can fill in with those. 
  • With 801.7 and up I'm not offensively focused, there's no way you're going to solo complete them.  I just want to survive as well as possible in order to anchor the team.  801.7 and up are purely team oriented missions.

 

 

From Testing, assuming little to no healing in the set (Inv, SD, SR, etc):

 

From testing, as best as I can tell you need the following to survive the worst spikes, and I'm not against cheating and using amps, dampeners, and base buffs ... but would prefer not to as much as possible.  Primarily SLE typed (with some minimal other types) with a 50/50 mix of Melee/Ranged and about normal AoE.  Obviously the numbers are approximate, and would vary by build.

 

200 def / 140 resist - Squishies (Kiski managed a bit over 5 minutes till the candy ran dry, probably 8m max.  Listed values are the totals over-cap to keep from being dropped too low and either cascaded due to -defense or attrition-ed due to -resist.  Obviously it'd be a good idea to bring a tank along to toss to the wolves.)

 

88 def / 88 resist -  vs 71 ddr Tank (50ddr +Ageless T4 at the Tail, you have to protect the minimum ddr or they break you in that last 30 seconds.  Rarely needs minimal buffs to cover that tail, otherwise the defense numbers can be lower as DDR is higher most of the time.)

68 def / 88 resist - vs 88 ddr Tank (SD without ageless is ~88ddr, she needs just the smallest team buffs and she's good, otherwise *splat*.  Overall solo she did better with Ageless and DDR cap.  But both ways she needs at least tiny team buffs.)

65 def / 88 resist - vs 95 ddr Tank (SR on test.  This is the only one that managed 30+m in 801.A)

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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Posted (edited)

The above builds are better and more balanced builds. ^^^

Below are the two builds skewed toward SLE with a Hole to Psionics, I'm planning on testing next, unless I modify them more or find other interesting ways to change them.

 

The major Questions are:

  • Does [Contaminated Strike] have to-hit in order to Proc the Tank +Resist Proc?
  • Will [Gaussian's BU Proc] fire often enough in Saturated [Invincibility] for the above [Contaminiated Strike] to-hit?
  • Or will I prefer the [Gaussian's BU Proc] in Fusion?
  • Vengeance or Taunt?
  • And of course, will these be Objectively Measurably better than the builds I currently have.   If the Rune changes go thru, I'll probably go this way regardless.

 

Inv RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i25].mxd SD RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i26].mxd

Edited by Linea

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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Powers need to hit for procs to activate. As far as I know, there are no auto-hit powers that take Tanker ATOs.

 

Gaussian's will proc about once per minute as you've got it slotted. It's probably not worthing bothering with.

 

Fusion will proc Gaussian's almost automatically. However, it only lasts a brief period of time.

 

In any case, from your description you may be barking up the wrong tree (or, rather, the wrong AT). Most of your problems are likely best solved with control rather than tanking.

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20 minutes ago, Linea said:

The above builds are better and more balanced builds. ^^^

Below are the two builds skewed toward SLE with a Hole to Psionics, I'm planning on testing next, unless I modify them more or find other interesting ways to change them.

 

The major Questions are:

  • Does [Contaminated Strike] have to-hit in order to Proc the Tank +Resist Proc?
  • Will [Gaussian's BU Proc] fire often enough in Saturated [Invincibility] for the above [Contaminiated Strike] to-hit?
  • Or will I prefer the [Gaussian's BU Proc] in Fusion?
  • Vengeance or Taunt?
  • And of course, will these be Objectively Measurably better than the builds I currently have.   If the Rune changes go thru, I'll probably go this way regardless.

 

Inv RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i25].mxd 5.41 kB · 0 downloads SD RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i26].mxd 5.5 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

Guassian's is 1PPM; from your last attached INV/RAD build you got Fusion coming back in 32 seconds with 93.26% local recharge, which will have an 79.566% chance to trigger the buff/20.434% chance to fail. 

 

Invincibility is a 8ft radius toggle, so it will have a 8.772% chance to trigger per mob every 10 seconds/91.228% chance to fail. So the chance of getting 0 triggers while saturated is .9122810 or 39.928%.  So 60.071% chance of at least one trigger. 

 

So in the 32 seconds it takes for you to cycle Fusion there are 3 activation for the proc to go off in Invincibility. The chance to get 0 triggers out of that 30 second cycle is 6.366% if saturated.  So just comparing the 20.404% chance to fail every 30 seconds to 6.366% it would seem that you'd get more mileage out of Invincibility.  But that operates on assuming always target capped, which isn't how normal game play generally works out (haven't ever run 801 content so maybe it's more common there) at only 6 mobs in Invincibility you're at 19.156% chance to not trigger in a 30 second cycle so that appears to be your break even point from a pure uptime view point. The other big drawback to having the proc in a toggle is you can't control when you try and set the proc off like you can in a click power.

 

 

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I realize now that I’ve been neglecting 801. I need to see how much I can crawl up the scale on my SD/MA. I also wanted to try speed running 801.2, but hadn’t gotten to it. Maybe it’s time for me to start defaulting to 801 instead of ITF when I want to hop on solo and play for a few hours. That doesn’t answer your question at all, and I play no inspirations so I’ll never make it to 801.A I’m sure, but every time I hear 801 I get all excited and grateful so I had to post anyway. 😉 

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I tried +4/x8 801.A blind on my SD/Rad offensively specced. I'm high on amplifiers and I like to chug insps so this should be fine, right? Oh boy. This 300+ DPS build needs constant focus on one target to take a single EB in roughly a minute. And I had to chug, chug, chug these lucks and oranges. I think I killed about 3 of them before I finally faceplanted. 3 enemies, not 3 groups.

 

Licking my wounds, I moved on to the much more relaxing Mr G missions. You know something is HARD when +4/x8 Vanguards with Elite Bosses becomes your go-to comfort food to make up for it.

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Y'know. I always think I have great survivability on my tanks. And then I go into the higher difficulties of 801 and get the peoples elbow to my ego as I drop in 30 seconds. 😅

 

My tanks can usually survive up to 801.5 or 6. After that I drop off a ledge. Lol. 

 

My staff/dark tank can actually hang at 4/6 in 801.A if I can manage to aggro like half a group. More than that and it's one tequila two tequila three tequila floor. 

Edited by Pizzamurai
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Posted (edited)

Skylark Walker
+4x16: Nuking a Room full of Unlimited Aggro.  Some combinations are worse than others, and pulling half of two groups can get overlapping doubled debuffs that don't normally happen in a single group.

  • Build: Inv RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i26]
  • Primary Hole is Defense and DDR.
    • When DDR drops, cascade can happen fairly quickly.  Monitor Ageless and DDR closely.
    • When Defense starts dropping below 57 to 59 … cascade slowly starts happing.
      • Demonic, Purple Candy, Combat Armor (Accolade), as well as Team Buffs
      • 801.7 Needs 1 Medium+ Purple to carry through the low DDR trough.
      • 801.A Needs 1 Large or Super Purple to carry through the low DDR trough, unless you get an unlucky combo of debuffs ...
      • 801.A and up, if you are very unlucky, you might burn through an inspirations a minute, compared to 1 or 2 inspirations every 6 minutes for the SD.
      • Overall Steadiness to the Inv vs Peak Performance to the SD
      • With enough team buffs, the Inv will be the most comfortable and steady, due to steady state resist, Better HP, and a Self Heal
    • When Defense drops below 50, then Sappers can drain you in a blink.
  • Resist almost never drops below 90.  Resist is very solid now.  Thank you Hyperstrike and Infinitum.
    • Hybrid, Wedding Band, Demonic, …
  • Stuns can be an issue with this build, monitor Stuns and Over-Aggro.
    • Hybrid
  • Combat Monitor
    • Stealth
    • DDR
    • Last Chance to Hit
    • Smashing Defense
    • Energy Defense
    • Fire Defense
    • Stun Protection
    • Smashing Resist
    • Energy Resist
    • Fire Resist

 

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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56 minutes ago, Linea said:

Skylark Walker
+4x16: Nuking a Room full of Unlimited Aggro.  Some combinations are worse than others, and pulling half of two groups can get overlapping doubled debuffs that don't normally happen in a single group.

  • Build: Inv RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i3 - [i26]
  • Primary Hole is Defense and DDR.
    • When DDR drops, cascade can happen fairly quickly.  Monitor Ageless and DDR closely.
    • When Defense starts dropping below 57 to 59 … cascade slowly starts happing.
      • Demonic, Purple Candy, Combat Armor (Accolade), as well as Team Buffs
      • 801.7 Needs 1 Medium+ Purple to carry through the low DDR trough.
      • 801.A Needs 1 Large+ Purple to carry through the low DDR trough.
    • When Defense drops below 50, then Sappers can drain you in a blink.
  • Resist almost never drops below 90.  Resist is very solid now.  Thank you Hyperstrike and Infinitum.
    • Hybrid, Wedding Band, Demonic, …
  • Stuns can be an issue with this build, monitor Stuns and Over-Aggro.
    • Hybrid
  • Combat Monitor
    • Stealth
    • DDR
    • Last Chance to Hit
    • Smashing Defense
    • Energy Defense
    • Fire Defense
    • Stun Protection
    • Smashing Resist
    • Energy Resist
    • Fire Resist

 

Invuln/Rad Melee seem like a cool combo. Rad gives Invuln a damage aura as well as a heal, which is cool. Do you find Invuln to be the best primary across most of these challenges? I know a ton can work, just seeing which one you find being the best jack of all trades for all of them!

 

Also, this info/feedback from your challenge is SUPER informative and helpful, so thanks for doing it.

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Posted (edited)

That's a can of worms.  There are biases baked into the game at every level.

I'm also probably going to test Hybrid Radial T4 on the Inv to to fill in the DDR troughs.  That's a bit of a first.  Resists were (almost) never an issue, so Demonic/Wedding Band can cover those tiny 10-15s holes easily.

 

I've always said the best tanker armors are probably Inv and SD.

  • I'll be testing an updated SD build next.
  • The Inv is just damn comfortable.  It's not immortal, but it's very comfy.  Unless you let yourself get distracted (trying to save the team, taunt, type in chat, take a phone call, etc) you will in most cases have enough time to react to whatever deadly situation arises.
  • I also have an Alpha Build of an SR on Test using Rune/Hybrid/Rune that beat both Inv and SD, However, even the tiniest slip of concentration results in getting you insta-killed.  Futhermore, Rune is being changed, and it was a chaotically hectic build and required massive player resources to pull it off.  It could still work using Demonic/Wedding_Band to fill the Rune Gaps, but that makes it even more Chaotic and Hectic and requiring even more Player Resources.  Which is to say, it would work, but it's not very practical.

 

"I recommend: /EnA (Defense, Any AT), Rad (Resist-Cap, Brute and Tank), /Bio (Heal-Armor, Any AT) . . Defense Alternate for tanks: SD/ and Inv/"

  • Heal-Tank Armor
    • I solo +4x8 up to 6 with a Kat/Bio Scrapper.  ...  ...   3 and up I can only take a maximum of one group with the scrapper, but a Tank can handle up to 6 pretty well.
    • However, Bio (even on a tank) gets blown out of the water the second you hit 7.  It's essentially a Heal-Tank and 25,000 dps hurts.  When the gaps in your armor hit, you die.
  • Resist Armors
    • Resist-Cap Armors Balance well up to 6 at -40 defense.  However, -45 and down they fail (usually slowly).  In practical terms, it's not hard to keep them upright if you monitor defense and use candy and/or even small team buffs.
    • Resist-Cap Armors balance down to -0 defense in 7 and above.   This is much trickier.  You need significant team buffs here, but if you get those buffs, you'll cruise along nicely.  A resist armor with team defense buffs and/or vengeance is effectively a Perma-T9 Armor.   Without those team buffs, as soon as you get debuffed you're gonna eat dirt.
    • Dark is probably the best resist armor, but very few players can either build dark, nor can they drive it if it's built for them.
  • Defense Armors
    • Defense Armors are unfortunately the best (solo or unsupported) answer, and that is almost entirely dependent on DDR.  DRR-Cap Armors have a significant advantage. 
    • The SR above with team resist buffs will be a truly unstoppable force of nature.   The catch there is 'Team Resist Buffs'.   Team Resist Buffs are almost always in short supply.
    • The SD above is in a little better position in that it needs only minimal defense buffs, and minimal (if any) resist buffs.  This makes it the more practical of the DDR-Cap choices.  I'm hoping the improved build above makes it more competitive vs the Inv while solo.  Only time and testing will tell.
    • The Inv above is in the best position, (prior to testing improved SD builds), in that it needs only minimal defense buffs, and even less resist buffs.  It's a rare team that won't have any defense buffs at all.  Yes you'll struggle with the DDR issue from time to time, but as long as you stay on your toes you should be ok.  I'm fairly certain you can keep this one upright 20-30m solo.  That should be more than enough to fill in any gaps where team support fails.  The practical answer.
    • If tanks ever get EnA, I can't wait to test it vs Inv and SD.   Not only is it very solid defensively, it can get decent resists, esp with Rune/Hybrid/Rune, but it also gets great mitigation via endurance drain.  Kat/Ena is one of my two favorite builds.

 

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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2 hours ago, Linea said:

That's a can of worms.  There are biases baked into the game at every level.

I'm also probably going to test Hybrid Radial T4 on the Inv to to fill in the DDR troughs.  That's a bit of a first.  Resists were (almost) never an issue, so Demonic/Wedding Band can cover those tiny 10-15s holes easily.

 

I've always said the best tanker armors are probably Inv and SD.

  • I'll be testing an updated SD build next.
  • The Inv is just damn comfortable.  It's not immortal, but it's very comfy.  Unless you let yourself get distracted (trying to save the team, taunt, type in chat, take a phone call, etc) you will in most cases have enough time to react to whatever deadly situation arises.
  • I also have an Alpha Build of an SR on Test using Rune/Hybrid/Rune that beat both Inv and SD, However, even the tiniest slip of concentration results in getting you insta-killed.  Futhermore, Rune is being changed, and it was a chaotically hectic build and required massive player resources to pull it off.  It could still work using Demonic/Wedding_Band to fill the Rune Gaps, but that makes it even more Chaotic and Hectic and requiring even more Player Resources.  Which is to say, it would work, but it's not very practical.

 

"I recommend: /EnA (Defense, Any AT), Rad (Resist-Cap, Brute and Tank), /Bio (Heal-Armor, Any AT) . . Defense Alternate for tanks: SD/ and Inv/"

  • Heal-Tank Armor
    • I solo +4x8 up to 6 with a Kat/Bio Scrapper.  ...  ...   3 and up I can only take a maximum of one group with the scrapper, but a Tank can handle up to 6 pretty well.
    • However, Bio (even on a tank) gets blown out of the water the second you hit 7.  It's essentially a Heal-Tank and 25,000 dps hurts.  When the gaps in your armor hit, you die.
  • Resist Armors
    • Resist-Cap Armors Balance well up to 6 at -40 defense.  However, -45 and down they fail (usually slowly).  In practical terms, it's not hard to keep them upright if you monitor defense and use candy and/or even small team buffs.
    • Resist-Cap Armors balance down to -0 defense in 7 and above.   This is much trickier.  You need significant team buffs here, but if you get those buffs, you'll cruise along nicely.  A resist armor with team defense buffs and/or vengeance is effectively a Perma-T9 Armor.   Without those team buffs, as soon as you get debuffed you're gonna eat dirt.
    • Dark is probably the best resist armor, but very few players can either build dark, nor can they drive it if it's built for them.
  • Defense Armors
    • Defense Armors are unfortunately the best (solo or unsupported) answer, and that is almost entirely dependent on DDR.  DRR-Cap Armors have a significant advantage. 
    • The SR above with team resist buffs will be a truly unstoppable force of nature.   The catch there is 'Team Resist Buffs'.   Team Resist Buffs are almost always in short supply.
    • The SD above is in a little better position in that it needs only minimal defense buffs, and minimal (if any) resist buffs.  This makes it the more practical of the DDR-Cap choices.  I'm hoping the improved build above makes it more competitive vs the Inv while solo.  Only time and testing will tell.
    • The Inv above is in the best position, (prior to testing improved SD builds), in that it needs only minimal defense buffs, and even less resist buffs.  It's a rare team that won't have any defense buffs at all.  Yes you'll struggle with the DDR issue from time to time, but as long as you stay on your toes you should be ok.  I'm fairly certain you can keep this one upright 20-30m solo.  That should be more than enough to fill in any gaps where team support fails.  The practical answer.
    • If tanks ever get EnA, I can't wait to test it vs Inv and SD.   Not only is it very solid defensively, it can get decent resists, esp with Rune/Hybrid/Rune, but it also gets great mitigation via endurance drain.  Kat/Ena is one of my two favorite builds.

 

This is amazing, thanks so much for the write up Linea! My top 3 tanks currently are an SD/Elec, Invuln/EM and Dark/Staff. I was thinking of making a "Superman" type hero to give some of these tests a run, and was stuck between Invuln and Rad. It seems like Invuln is the, as you put it, the "more comfy" way to go. Not to say Rad CAN'T do it as well, it would just be an easier time for the Invuln.

+1 to EA on Tankers though! Love it on my Stalker. I wonder how they'd adjust it for Tankers.

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Posted (edited)

Lucy Medrano
+4x16: Nuking a Room full of Unlimited Aggro.  Some combinations are worse than others, and pulling half of two groups can get overlapping doubled debuffs that don't normally happen in a single group.

  • Build: SD RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i4 - [i26]
    • This build is both more durable and less durable at the same time, and requires considerably more player resources and concentration as compared to the Inv.
    • 9 and down, I'm gonna give the star to the Inv.  It's just so steady state, and overall in one run of a 9 I used a whole total of 2 medium lucks.
    • A and up, the debuffs and dps are just so brutal I'm gonna give the star to the SD.  The Inv is overall steadier and easier to drive, but inside heavy debuffs situations it burns through inspirations faster, and can have a solo uptime of less than 2 minutes.  The SD is much harder to drive, much fiddlier, but it's uptime is 6+m even inside heavy debuffs.
    • 801.A and up, if you are very unlucky, The Inv might burn through an inspirations a minute, compared to 1 or 2 inspirations every 6 minutes for the SD.
    • Overall Steadiness to the Inv vs Peak Performance to the SD
    • Solo/Self_Sufficient goes to the SD, but with enough team buffs, the Inv will be the most comfortable and steady, due to steady state resist, Better HP, and a Self Heal
  • Primary Hole is Resists
    • Hybrid/OwtS/Hybrid/Demonic ... Hybrid/OwtS/Hybrid/Wedding_Band ... 
  • Secondary Hole is Endurance
    • OwtS Crash is very painful
    • Even with Cardiac Core T4 Endurance is painful.
    • Sappers are Deadly, keep that defense up in the 50s.
  • Tertiary Hole is DDR
    • When DDR drops, cascade happens but usually slowly.  However, Cascade does still happen, ... and it's deadly when it does.
    • When Defense starts dropping below 57 to 59 … start monitoring.
      • Demonic, Purple Candy, Combat Armor (Accolade), as well as Team Buffs
    • When Defense drops below 50, then Sappers can drain you in a blink.
  • Combat Monitor
    • Stealth
    • DDR
    • Last Chance to Hit
    • Melee Defense
    • Ranged Defense
    • Aoe Defense
    • Stun Protection
    • Smashing Resist
    • Energy Resist
    • Fire Resist

SD RadM Tank - Prototype 801 - Build i4 - [i26].mxd

Edited by Linea
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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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I'd like to give a big thank you to @Linea for the SD/EM build above. I couldn't find a single build for this post-EM changes that fit what I was looking for until this one, so I very much appreciate it! Still saving up for the winter sets right now, as it'll be my first IO'ed 50 on Live, but running missions solo on test with it and it is 110% rock solid no matter what common mobs I face +4x8 (carnies, malta, etc.). I did do a few minor tweaks to fit my style a little more, and found zero endurance or health problems with the build at all afterwards.

 

Probably doesn't kill as fast as others would, but that's ok to me, as I prize survivability well over dps, and haven't found it to be any sort of slog to solo with on those settings for missions. I do wish I could somehow get an extra 2% to ranged to hit hard cap solo with it, and a way to fit in Bone Smasher, but oh well. I'm not going to sweat it too much or enough to change things up majorly for those, since I'll be grouping for any incarnate stuff anyways. C'est la vie, non?

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

 

Listing:

Spoiler

 

SDEM Endgame: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Deflection    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (3) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (5) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (17) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
 (19) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance


Level 1:    Barrage    
 (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
 (7) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
 (42) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
 (45) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (46) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
 (48) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold


Level 2:    Battle Agility    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (3) Shield Wall - Defense
 (9) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
 (15) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge
 (19) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge


Level 4:    True Grit    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (7) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (9) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (11) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
 (13) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance


Level 6:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (29) Shield Wall - Defense
 (29) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
 (34) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge
 (45) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
 (46) Shield Wall - Endurance/Recharge


Level 8:    Active Defense    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 10:    Against All Odds    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO


Level 12:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense


Level 14:    Hasten    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (15) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 16:    Whirling Hands    
 (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage
 (17) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge
 (21) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (21) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (43) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (45) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)


Level 18:    Phalanx Fighting    
 (A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage


Level 20:    Grant Cover    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 22:    Total Focus    
 (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
 (23) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
 (23) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
 (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
 (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (34) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)


Level 24:    Kick    
 (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge


Level 26:    Shield Charge    
 (A) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
 (27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
 (27) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
 (31) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (31) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (33) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown


Level 28:    Build Up    
 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge


Level 30:    Tough    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (33) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
 (43) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (43) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
 (50) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance


Level 32:    Weave    
 (A) Shield Wall - Defense
 (33) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
 (34) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge
 (40) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance/Recharge


Level 35:    Power Crash    
 (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
 (36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime
 (36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
 (36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (37) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
 (37) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb


Level 38:    Energy Transfer    
 (A) Hecatomb - Damage
 (39) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
 (39) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (39) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
 (40) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
 (40) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)


Level 41:    Focused Accuracy    
 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
 (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
 (47) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
 (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
 (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
 (49) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up


Level 44:    Physical Perfection    
 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


Level 47:    One with the Shield    
 (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)


Level 49:    Super Jump    
 (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)


Level 1:    Gauntlet    
Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Accuracy IO


Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) HamiO:Microfilament Exposure


Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Healing IO


Level 2:    Swift    
 (A) Run Speed IO


Level 2:    Hurdle    
 (A) Jumping IO


Level 2:    Health    
 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
 (5) Miracle - +Recovery
 (42) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (46) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery


Level 2:    Stamina    
 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


Level 1:    Energy Focus    
Level 50:    Degenerative Core Flawless Interface    
Level 50:    Ageless Radial Epiphany    
Level 50:    Melee Core Embodiment    
Level 50:    Cardiac Core Paragon    
Level 50:    Ion Core Final Judgement    
Level 50:    Carnival Radial Superior Ally    
Level 50:    Freedom Phalanx Reserve    
Level 50:    Portal Jockey    
Level 50:    Task Force Commander    
Level 50:    The Atlas Medallion    
------------

 

 

Totals:

Spoiler

------------
Set Bonus Totals:
12% DamageBuff(Smashing)
12% DamageBuff(Lethal)
12% DamageBuff(Fire)
12% DamageBuff(Cold)
12% DamageBuff(Energy)
12% DamageBuff(Negative)
12% DamageBuff(Toxic)
12% DamageBuff(Psionic)
21.94% Defense(Smashing)
21.94% Defense(Lethal)
17.25% Defense(Fire)
17.25% Defense(Cold)
9.12% Defense(Energy)
9.12% Defense(Negative)
6% Defense(Psionic)
30.38% Defense(Melee)
12.25% Defense(Ranged)
13.5% Defense(AoE)
3.6% Max End
7.5% Enhancement(Max EnduranceDiscount)
15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
7.5% SpeedFlying
GrantPower Preventive Medicine (0% chance, if Scourge)
386.5 HP (20.63%) HitPoints
7.5% JumpHeight
7.5% SpeedJumping
MezResist(Confused) 151.3%
MezResist(Held) 151.3%
MezResist(Immobilized) 151.3%
MezResist(Sleep) 151.3%
MezResist(Stunned) 151.3%
MezResist(Terrorized) 151.3%
MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance)
14.5% (0.24 End/sec) Recovery
56% (4.37 HP/sec) Regeneration
50% ResEffect(SpeedFlying)
50% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
50% ResEffect(SpeedRunning)
23.75% Resistance(Smashing)
32% Resistance(Fire)
32% Resistance(Cold)
34.25% Resistance(Energy)
34.25% Resistance(Negative)
32.75% Resistance(Toxic)
49.75% Resistance(Psionic)
23.75% Resistance(Lethal)
7.5% SpeedRunning


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

I was thinking of starting another Supertanker, and wanted your opinion on the tougher of the two sets you've found from testing. Of the two pairs of SR/Inv and DM/RM.. which do you feel goes best together for survivability and performs well? Was thinking Inv/RM, but if another set pairing is better, I'm all ears for the perfect tank builder. 🙂

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Posted (edited)

EnM would have been either an @Infinitum build or @Hyperstrike Build.  They both contributed builds and ideas.  I personally don't do EnM.

 

  1. I would suggest Inv/ with RadM or DM.  The more Psionic resilient builds of Infinitum and Hyperstrike will make the better overall builds.  DM is less fiddly than RadM, adds to-hit buffs and endurance management, but at the cost of lower AoE and lower Self-Healing.
  2. SD has better peak performance and better psionic performance, but requires more player resources, and possibly temp powers and extras.  I plan on making a Psionic variant of SD, but I also dont' mind the extra expense in both temps and player resources.  I'm ok with burning 10m/hr on temps, you might not want to be.  Therefore, I primarily recommend Inv/.
  3. SR can peak even higher, but it's impractically expensive in player resources, temps, and so on.  Unless you are the twitch king, you are going to blink and die, frequently.  In my testing I died at least 10 times in less than 5 minutes each before I finally managed the 30+m run in 801.A.  It was very frustrating. Furthermore, the Rune changes will impact the SR the most, making it even more likely to blink and die.  The SD is performing well enough, with a lower peak, but also much less frustration. 
Edited by Linea

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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17 minutes ago, Linea said:

EnM would have been either an @Infinitum build or @Hyperstrike Build.  They both contributed builds and ideas.  I personally don't do EnM.

 

  1. I would suggest Inv/ with RadM or DM.  The more Psionic resilient builds of Infinitum and Hyperstrike will make the better overall builds.  DM is less fiddly than RadM, adds to-hit buffs and endurance management, but at the cost of lower AoE and lower Self-Healing.
  2. SD has better peak performance and better psionic performance, but requires more player resources, and possibly temp powers and extras.  I plan on making a Psionic variant of SD, but I also don't mind the extra expense in both temps and player resources.  I'm ok with burning 10m/hr on temps, you might not want to be.  Therefore, I primarily recommend Inv/.
  3. SR can peak even higher, but it's impractically expensive in player resources, temps, and so on.  Unless you are the twitch king, you are going to blink and die, frequently.  In my testing I died at least 10 times in less than 5 minutes each before I finally managed the 30+m run in 801.A.  It was very frustrating. Furthermore, the Rune changes will impact the SR the most, making it even more likely to blink and die.  The SD is performing well enough, with a lower peak, but also much less frustration. 

 

Gotcha. Then I have to thank both of you then, @Infinitum for creating the build and you for posting it on March 18 above. 🙂

 

Yeah, I'm still just getting my legs under me, so 10MM inf/hour is too pricy right now for me. Sounds like I'd be happy with Inv/RadM, but I'll give both a whirl on the test server to see which melee set suits me more. Good to know about SR though.. sudden face-planting isn't really something I want to go through, so it helps immensely to have your experience relayed. Thanks again! 

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Other than the obvious of playing solo and wanting more damage, is there any particular reason you're not using void judgement for the damage debuff, and Diamagnetic on the interface for to-hit debuff?

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I generally do use Void Judgement.  

I generally don't use Diamagnetic, but I have.

I generally don't use paralytic, but have done that as well too.

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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10 hours ago, Linea said:

I generally do use Void Judgement.  

I generally don't use Diamagnetic, but I have.

I generally don't use paralytic, but have done that as well too.

Okay, I was just wondering if there was some weird anti-debuff thing going on there which made it irrelevant that I didnt know about 🙂

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It's mostly just Lucy's build won't benefit much from it.  Unless it procs off contaminated damage?   If it's only the actual AoEs, those are a bit sparse to be effective at applying the debuffs. 

 

A build like Asja that's almost all AoE all the time when inside piles could really stack the debuffs on.  But Asja is already running mid-70s to mid-80s defense, so if I did anything on her it'd be the -damage, and that's the worst possible proc, you're lucky to get -10 damage even with her AoE centric capabilities.  If I rebuilt her with darkest night, the stacking -damage would probably then make it worth it.  But I'm really not sure I'll ever rebuild her as a Darkest Night build, I really like her build as-is, decent damage, great defense, moderate resists.  I don't remember if there's an interface proc for draining endurance, but that's another one I might at least experiment with on Asja's build.  She's really good at draining targets in any of the longer larger fights.

  • Like 1

AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE.  Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

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