Not sure if I have the Master, or the Mind. (A topic about basic MM concepts)

[Aeroprism]

Hello, fellow henchmen-leading enthusiasts.

 

I've been present in these parts of the forum as of late, showing a keen interest in the profession of sending happy little critters to do my bidding until they get exploded taking care of carefully chosen associates who expect nothing more than a strong sense of leadership.

 

My Beast/Dark is in her mid 30s, easy to play, Animals already know which parts to bite and to be fair, summoning the unholy powers of the nether to cripple your enemies is like driving a Buick: it's never breath-taking but it's smooth, it's reliable and people look you strangely when you pass them in a school zone.

 

My Bots/Time is in her mid 20s. Even easier.  Time makes everything go by so slowly, I have all the time in the world to see my happy little metallic friends miss most of their attacks.

 

0_o

 

Moving on.

 

Right. The point of this topic:  In order to fully appreciate the profession, I want to know what the heck I'm doing.  I've been seeing words like:

 

• Supremacy. (which is, as I gathered, a super happy buff pets have when they're close to me.  It's like my kids.  When they're close to me, they think they can get away doing all sorts of inane crap).  
• Pet Auras. (You lost me there).
• Mule powers. (My beast MM only summons wolves and lions. I have no idea what a mule would do in the thick of a fight).
• Bodyguard mode. (Aren't these happy bundle of pixels already doing all that is possible to them to keep me alive?)  "Hey, boss is getting fragged by a RASEREI UBERMENSCHEN, should we help?  Nah... this is my break." (Also, if the 5th column poses a threat to you at any point of your life, you deserve to have your minions quit on you).
• Not all procs are desirable. (You lost me there, again. I thought procs were the coolest thing ever next to bourbon and ginger ale).

 

So, in short, is there a source of info for all that somewhere?  Problem with CoH is that it's an old game so people assume that we're already all super knowledgeable.  So while I could talk your ear off about scrappers and brutes, I really need some master to my mind.

 

Thank you.

[Sovera]

You're a riot, Aero, I actually giggled reading it.

 

Supremacy you got the gist of. Pets who are close (it's a biggo radius buff) get a bonus to accuracy and etc.

 

Pet auras will add a +resistance aura to stack with Supremacy. There are two or three of these pet auras. This is one of them and this one in particular will give 10% to all resistances to your pets. Pets are so squishy that these pet auras are considered nearly mandatory.

 

Mule powers are a term for powers picked or slotted solely because for the set bonuses and that we have no intention of using. For example if you glance at my Tanker builds you'll notice more often than not a Brawl four slotted with Kinetic Combat. While it may shock you to discover I don't actually Brawl mobs (:D) the four set is a hefty 3.75% to Smash/Lethal which helps reaching the 40-45% goal.

 

Bodyguard mode is nearly hidden away. Everyone talks about it, but a new player may never even discover it, or like me, move out of Bodyguard without even noticing. The pets need to be in Defensive mode and NOT be sent to attack. In defensive mode up to 75% of the damage the MM takes will be shared by all pets thus reducing the HP droppage. Works best if having some sort of AoE heal to counter this, but regardless it makes a MM pretty hard to kill. In defensive mode the pets will only attack if attacked which can cause the pets to sit idly by our side if we are out of the way and the tank has all the agro, so it's more of a defensive move than something to sit in all the time.

 

Not all procs are desirable because they go off only if the appropriate damage is used. Unlike a player a pet actually has 3-4 attacks in that one six slot power. Taking bots for example, not all the attacks do KB, so if slotting a damage proc from the KB IO sets attacks done that are not those who do KB will not trigger the proc.

 

 

These forums are filled with information, but because of the nuances involved and if new it is safe (and saner) to just copy someone's build that fits your playstyle. For example despite being a damage loss I never take my MM's attacks. Not everyone does this.

[Mack008]

I'm going to expand on Bodyguard a bit, because I know it confused me.

 

When your henchmen are not in Aggressive mode, and not sent to attack a target (so think Defensive or Passive modes), some of the damage the MM would take is shared with each henchmen.  Here's how it's distributed.  The MM counts as 2 portions, and each henchmen counts as 1 portion.  So if you have two henchmen out, there are a total of 4 portions (2 on the MM, 1 for each henchmen).  If you have all six henchmen out, there are a total of 8 portions.

 

Suppose your MM is hit with 80 points of damage.  With six henchmen, that would be portioned out 8 ways.  The MM would take 20 points (2 portions) and each henchmen would take 10 points (1 portion each, six times).  So that incoming attack damage is spread across the whole group.  This makes the MM much more durable than his/her normal hit points would imply.  (Note, with only two henchmen the 80 points would be split into 4 portions, with the MM getting 40 points for his two portions and each henchmen getting 20 points for one portion.  Having more henchmen means spreading the damage over a larger group.)

 

But there's a downside, and that's AoE attacks.  Suppose that same 80 attack was an AoE that affected the whole group.  In that case, the MM would still take 20 points, but each henchmen would take a total of 90 points (80 from the attack, and 10 shared from the MM).  A series of AoE attacks can wreck a group of henchmen.  So you'll want to look for AoE Defense powers/bonuses where you can.

 

Hope that helps.

[TygerDarkstorm]

Bodyguard is only in effect when your pets are set to Defensive, Follow mode.

[Tacheyon]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Bodyguard is only in effect when your pets are set to Defensive, Follow mode.

 

I am pretty sure it works on Defensive Goto if your pets are still in Supremacy range.

[TygerDarkstorm]

13 minutes ago, Tacheyon said:

 

I am pretty sure it works on Defensive Goto if your pets are still in Supremacy range.

Edit: I linked a thread that proved me wrong, lol. You may be right. There seems to be some confusion on how BG mode works. My apologies.

 

No, it doesn't. It only works in Defensive, Follow. Bodyguard mode is a very specific thing. And at its most useful when soloing. There are plenty of reasons to leave BG mode, especially  if you're on a team.

 

From these forums: 

 

From the wiki: 

• Mastermind Bodyguards: You can set any Mastermind pet to Bodyguard by selecting the Defensive Stance and the Follow(*) Orders. Your pets must be within Supremacy range for this function to work.

Edited May 11, 2021 by TygerDarkstorm
I was wrong.

[StrikerFox]

Bodyguard mode is active while pets are in Defensive + Follow/Goto/Stay commands and within Supremacy range. Only the Attack My Target command kibosh BG mode.

[TheSpiritFox]

On 5/7/2021 at 12:23 PM, Aeroprism said:

Hello, fellow henchmen-leading enthusiasts.

 

I've been present in these parts of the forum as of late, showing a keen interest in the profession of sending happy little critters to do my bidding until they get exploded taking care of carefully chosen associates who expect nothing more than a strong sense of leadership.

 

My Beast/Dark is in her mid 30s, easy to play, Animals already know which parts to bite and to be fair, summoning the unholy powers of the nether to cripple your enemies is like driving a Buick: it's never breath-taking but it's smooth, it's reliable and people look you strangely when you pass them in a school zone.

 

My Bots/Time is in her mid 20s. Even easier.  Time makes everything go by so slowly, I have all the time in the world to see my happy little metallic friends miss most of their attacks.

 

0_o

 

Moving on.

 

Right. The point of this topic:  In order to fully appreciate the profession, I want to know what the heck I'm doing.  I've been seeing words like:

 

• Supremacy. (which is, as I gathered, a super happy buff pets have when they're close to me.  It's like my kids.  When they're close to me, they think they can get away doing all sorts of inane crap).  
• Pet Auras. (You lost me there).
• Mule powers. (My beast MM only summons wolves and lions. I have no idea what a mule would do in the thick of a fight).
• Bodyguard mode. (Aren't these happy bundle of pixels already doing all that is possible to them to keep me alive?)  "Hey, boss is getting fragged by a RASEREI UBERMENSCHEN, should we help?  Nah... this is my break." (Also, if the 5th column poses a threat to you at any point of your life, you deserve to have your minions quit on you).
• Not all procs are desirable. (You lost me there, again. I thought procs were the coolest thing ever next to bourbon and ginger ale).

 

So, in short, is there a source of info for all that somewhere?  Problem with CoH is that it's an old game so people assume that we're already all super knowledgeable.  So while I could talk your ear off about scrappers and brutes, I really need some master to my mind.

 

Thank you.

 Alright Mastermind Primer 

 

People covered supremacy but basics, pets get a buff if they're within 40 feet of you. 

This is linked to bodyguard. You split damage with living pets in supremacy range if those pets are in defensive stance and under goto, follow, or stay orders.  

 

Bodyguard = You get 2 parts damage, each living pet gets 1 part damage. 6 pets, 8 parts, 75% damage reduction for things punching your MM in the face. 1 pet alive, 33% damage reduction. 

 

Pet commands!

Here's a simple set for you

/bind q "petcom_all aggressive$$petcom_all goto"

/bind e "petcom_all defensive$$petcom_all goto"

/bind r "petcom_all defensive$$petcom_all follow"

/bind mbutton "petcom_all attack"

/bind shift+mbutton "petcom_all stay"

 

Those five binds are pretty much all I use for pet control in combat. Aggressive mode they attack everything nearby. Defensive mode, you're in bodyguard if you're within 40 feet of your pets. Goto is great, pets go to that spot and attack stuff within 40 feet of it. Follow has them chase after you to the next spawn. Attack focuses fire on a single target, stay keeps them from running out of enemy damage patches and all over creation. 

 

Pet auras. There are 6 enhancement sets with a unique enhancement which gives either defense or resistance to all of your pets in supremacy range. 2 5% defense, 2 10% resistance, 1 10% aoe defense, 1 15% resistance. The mule powers are powers which can allow you to slot these pet uniques without putting them in the pets themselves, leaving room in the pets for procs and enhancement and whatnot. Thugs, zombies, and demons have a mule power. Gang war for thugs, soul extraction for zombies, hell on earth for demons. It is common to slot like 4 of the pet aura ios into gang war an then 2 recharge ios to just be able to drop it regularly.  Mercs, ninjas, beasts, and bots unfortunately do not have an extra power to mule these IOs so you have to squash them into your pets, or take /storm and fit some into storm powers. Dark actually might be able to take some in the dark servant when you get there as well. I can't remember what fluffy can take. 

 

Procs wise, some pets can fit some and benefit alot from them, others do not. The T1 beasts benefit from procs, T2 enforcers in thugs benefit alot from procs, necro T2 benefit from a few, and Necro T3 has one that's about mandatory (cloud senses). Demons, there's one proc that goes well in the T3, but not much else for them to utilize.  The thing about pets and procs is that putting a proc in a pet procs all the attacks that are compatible with the proc, and on separate timers. So the enforcers who have 4 total -def attacks have 4 attacks which can proc a -def proc, 2 of them are big cone aoes and it adds up to a shitload of potential proc opportunities off pretty much all their common attacks. The T1 thugs by comparison don't have anything other than overwhelming force chance for knockdown they can really slot and benefit from, no attacks that enable weird procs from debuff sets and such. 

 

I've heard some really good things about the proc rate with beasts and a few procs though. 

[The_Warpact]

I love macros I have a whole line block dedicated to them.

Tank have all the aggro? My pets are dancing in the middle of the mob or doing magic tricks or complaining that the emp isn't pulling his weight!

Here are some handy ones.

 

/macro ATK "petcom_all aggressive$$petcom_all goto"
/macro DEF "petcom_all defensive$$petcom_all goto"
/macro GRD "petcom_all defensive$$petcom_all follow"

[Aeroprism]

Extremely valuable knowledge all around! Thank you!!

 

This gives me a better idea as to how use MMs in general, and how to customize My Beasts and Bots MMs in particular.  

 

And it makes me want to try a Thug MM, though I don't know what to pair it with.  Poison? Storm? Elec? I honestly have no idea.

 

You guys truly are rock stars! Thank you!!

 

[Aeroprism]

THREAD NECROMANCY!!

 

(It's ok, this character is /Dark so it's kind of legit. I think.)

 

So in the recent weeks I came back home. Can't figure out why I stopped playing. Still as fun as ever.  I'm revisiting a few characters and when it's a tank or a scrapper, I can generally get by, But this gal here, my Beast/Dark MM... wow.  I just got my jungle-butt handed to me by freaks in a x4+0 mission at level 32.  The usual: summon and upgrade pets.  Send them in. Darkest night. Tar Patch. Fearsome stare, then throw heals and summon ravens.  Then, suddenly, my blue bar is dry (the fight lasted less than 30 secs, I know, freaks and End drain) and I'm quite dead.

 

In the last two years, did anything change that would make this combo not good anymore?  I seem to remember people telling me it was quite ok. I do have a build to look forward to but I have no idea where I found it so I can't really decide if it's any good but for the moment, ouch, poor girl is in need of either love or permanent shelving,

 

Opinions, my friends?  Thank you!

[Aeroprism]

As is tradition, I resurrect this topic once a year.

 

I was playing with my friend's tank today with my Corruptor and I felt I wanted a second duo option that was not another direct damager like my legions of tanks, scrappers and sentinels.  

 

So I remembered my happy little Beast/Dark MM which has been shelved for... quite a while.

 

Then I look at her build.  I know for a fact that I'm fairly more competent with builds now but not so much with MM builds, and this build here looks wrong.  For instance, the Scorpion Shield power looks utterly redundant and useless.

 

An inf for your thoughts?

 

(Edit: I plugged in a few holes and removed a few whoops.  I know that the Dark Miasma part is really well slotted because of Force Redux's fantastic topic up there.  But the Beast part could be improved on I'm sure.)

 

Thank you guys!
 

Build, updated.

Edited May 21 by Aeroprism

[tidge]

IMO, no Patron shield is redundant or useless.

1. It's a no-pre-requisite required (other than Patron unlock) power that allows slotting of Defense (or Resistance) sets (*1) for bonuses or globals/uniques.
2. The higher the Defenses (also Resistances, but that is somewhat secondary) on a Mastermind, the better

/Dark is always going to be a decent secondary choice for MMs: It gets several powers very early that make things surprisingly easy: the -Res slow in Tar Patch and a PBAoE heal in Twilight Grasp. By the time the MM has added Shadow Fall, a /Dark MM can start to feel like it can handle anything; it is time to start counting down the levels until Dark Servant.

The only personal concern *I* have about /Dark (on MMs) is my belief that, because of the PBAoE heals and defense buffs, it can lull a player into a sense of security about certain tactics that don't work in all circumstances. This is true about most MMs, but since Dark gets those PBAoE tricks so early, especially the heal... it often appears to me that /Dark MMs aren't always focused on debuffing or controlling enemies.

 

Setting aside my minor personal issue, I think /Dark is one of the top choices of secondaries. IMO, the most important power for a level 50+ /Dark Mastermind is Tar Patch, and you probably can get by with only 2x50(+5) IO Recharge pieces in it.

 

(*1) I do try to add the fighting pool to MMs, but as a practical matter I never toggle on Tough and almost never toggle on Weave... unless I don't bring out the henchmen.

[Aeroprism]

33 minutes ago, tidge said:

IMO, no Patron shield is redundant or useless.

1. It's a no-pre-requisite required (other than Patron unlock) power that allows slotting of Defense (or Resistance) sets (*1) for bonuses or globals/uniques.
2. The higher the Defenses (also Resistances, but that is somewhat secondary) on a Mastermind, the better

/Dark is always going to be a decent secondary choice for MMs: It gets several powers very early that make things surprisingly easy: the -Res slow in Tar Patch and a PBAoE heal in Twilight Grasp. By the time the MM has added Shadow Fall, a /Dark MM can start to feel like it can handle anything; it is time to start counting down the levels until Dark Servant.

The only personal concern *I* have about /Dark (on MMs) is my belief that, because of the PBAoE heals and defense buffs, it can lull a player into a sense of security about certain tactics that don't work in all circumstances. This is true about most MMs, but since Dark gets those PBAoE tricks so early, especially the heal... it often appears to me that /Dark MMs aren't always focused on debuffing or controlling enemies.

 

Setting aside my minor personal issue, I think /Dark is one of the top choices of secondaries. IMO, the most important power for a level 50+ /Dark Mastermind is Tar Patch, and you probably can get by with only 2x50(+5) IO Recharge pieces in it.

 

(*1) I do try to add the fighting pool to MMs, but as a practical matter I never toggle on Tough and almost never toggle on Weave... unless I don't bring out the henchmen.

 

I agree that /Dark is a fantastic MM secondary.

 

Thank you for the hindsight Tidge, I always enjoy reading your posts!

[Force Redux]

I use scorpion shield on characters that don't build for Ranged Defense, since it helps with the three most common damage types at end game, regardless of positions.

 

These are typically characters who expect to go into melee ((blappers, poison users, etc.)

Edited May 26 by Force Redux

[Force Redux]

On 5/20/2024 at 4:34 PM, Aeroprism said:

As is tradition, I resurrect this topic once a year.

 

I was playing with my friend's tank today with my Corruptor and I felt I wanted a second duo option that was not another direct damager like my legions of tanks, scrappers and sentinels.  

 

So I remembered my happy little Beast/Dark MM which has been shelved for... quite a while.

 

Then I look at her build.  I know for a fact that I'm fairly more competent with builds now but not so much with MM builds, and this build here looks wrong.  For instance, the Scorpion Shield power looks utterly redundant and useless.

 

An inf for your thoughts?

 

(Edit: I plugged in a few holes and removed a few whoops.  I know that the Dark Miasma part is really well slotted because of Force Redux's fantastic topic up there.  But the Beast part could be improved on I'm sure.)

 

Thank you guys!
 

Build, updated.

 

Glad my guide helped 🙂

[Aeroprism]

2 hours ago, Force Redux said:

 

Glad my guide helped 🙂

 

Your guide is awesome!  Thank you so much for it!

[pawstruck]

Ok but... Is "defensive mode" a separate thing from the three commands you can give your pets (that would be on your default bar)? Do you have to use a macro to access defensive mode? How the hell are new players people supposed to know this stuff?

[tidge]

On 7/5/2024 at 8:07 AM, pawstruck said:

Ok but... Is "defensive mode" a separate thing from the three commands you can give your pets (that would be on your default bar)? Do you have to use a macro to access defensive mode? How the hell are new players people supposed to know this stuff?

 

There isn't a Mastermind (or a Dominator, or Brute, or Peacbringer, etc...) "tutorial", so learning these are all on a curve. If I am teamed with a MM on a PUG and I notice them dying a lot, I suggest that they consider using Bodyguard ("blue", or even "green") mode. Occasionally on a hectic PUG, I notice if a MMs henchmen are doing something likely to be unintended... henchmen not following, henchmen stuck, henchmen not attacking (often because the way aggro is distributed) I may say something, but otherwise I generally expect that people seek out advice on how to maximize their potential, as with all other things in life.

 

The pet window can "do it all" from one mode (advanced/basic) or another. I typically click/drag the green/blue/red/command buttons from the pet window down to a tray... then they look like macros. I make sure to edit the macros to make sure they do what I want. IIRC until all the henchmen are in the window, I think the macros added this way may only cover the existing henchmen. IIRC it is necessary to switch between the basic/advanced modes in the pet window to see all the ones I want.

 

The only macro I go out of my way to add is the one to dismiss them all, which I put out of the way so I don't accidentally click it.

 

I usually have one tray with these commands (for all henchmen):  "go to", "follow me", "stay", "blue", "green", "red", "attack my target"

 

I understand the appeal of the various MM keybinds, but for the types of content I play, and my preferred MMs, when I want to direct the henchmen in multiple, different ways... I just use the pet window. This is just my experience: with the faster resummons and the ability to buff the henchmen at the same time, plus the low barrier to having whatever enhancement sets I want, I just don't need to micromanage henchmen so much.