Can someone Explain?

[Naraka]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

now that is Kobe beef quality Snark right there.

 

Either my snark was 80 proof or the expiration date was past due but my criticism was moderated and deleted.  I'm still looking to make a Fire Blast Sent, just don't know what unique secondary to use...

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

Either my snark was 80 proof or the expiration date was past due but my criticism was moderated and deleted.  I'm still looking to make a Fire Blast Sent, just don't know what unique secondary to use...

I have experimented with quite a few Sentinels.  Willpower, while boring, is (to me) absolutely perfect on a Sentinel. Endless blue energy, the ability to heal fast if you are not put down. some armor/defense to build on. Set and forget. Oh, and it requires almost no I/O investment to get there. Leaving you to slather your primary with everything.

[oldskool]

23 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Willpower, while boring, is (to me) absolutely perfect on a Sentinel with Fire Blast.

 

Fixed a little. 😉 

I think Fire Blast is a good all around set.  It has potential for AoE if you use Rain of Fire with an AoE immobilize.  This is on top of Fire Ball which is a great AoE power.  Rain of Fire and something like Fire Cages gets you 16 targets to hit.  That may let you feel more like other ranged ATs with the same caps.  Not many Sentinel primaries have this option.  Furthermore, ones that do don't have the same baseline single target damage that Fire Blast does.  

Given that Fire Blast is a reasonably solid set, it doesn't hurt it (nearly as much) to go full sets for defense and resistance bonuses unlike many other sets.  Where a lot of other sets can feel highly reliant on multiple procs for performance, Fire Blast doesn't.  

So the Fire Blast/Willpower combo can turn out to be a pretty strong character.  You can potentially softcap Smashing/Lethal/Fire/Cold/Energy/Negative defense scores while also pushing resistances pretty hard.  You get all of that backed by 600% to 700%+ regeneration on a character that can still fight from hover playing keep away.  It can be surprisingly effective.  

Similar strategies with Fire Blast can be applied to just about every one of the Secondaries.  Even the ones that may seem a bit subpar can be built up with the IO system without hindering FB too much.  

My own Fire Blast build runs with Energy Aura.  Originally I wanted to go Fire/Fire/Fire, but the visuals didn't do it for me.  Energy Aura has some customizable glows to it and with the right colors it looks a bit like burning embers falling around with an internal glow.  I did something similar with Ice/EA that makes it look like snow.  

Edited July 2, 2021 by oldskool

[Snarky]

50 minutes ago, oldskool said:

 

Fixed a little. 😉 

I think Fire Blast is a good all around set.  It has potential for AoE if you use Rain of Fire with an AoE immobilize.  This is on top of Fire Ball which is a great AoE power.  Rain of Fire and something like Fire Cages gets you 16 targets to hit.  That may let you feel more like other ranged ATs with the same caps.  Not many Sentinel primaries have this option.  Furthermore, ones that do don't have the same baseline single target damage that Fire Blast does.  

Given that Fire Blast is a reasonably solid set, it doesn't hurt it (nearly as much) to go full sets for defense and resistance bonuses unlike many other sets.  Where a lot of other sets can feel highly reliant on multiple procs for performance, Fire Blast doesn't.  

So the Fire Blast/Willpower combo can turn out to be a pretty strong character.  You can potentially softcap Smashing/Lethal/Fire/Cold/Energy/Negative defense scores while also pushing resistances pretty hard.  You get all of that backed by 600% to 700%+ regeneration on a character that can still fight from hover playing keep away.  It can be surprisingly effective.  

Similar strategies with Fire Blast can be applied to just about every one of the Secondaries.  Even the ones that may seem a bit subpar can be built up with the IO system without hindering FB too much.  

My own Fire Blast build runs with Energy Aura.  Originally I wanted to go Fire/Fire/Fire, but the visuals didn't do it for me.  Energy Aura has some customizable glows to it and with the right colors it looks a bit like burning embers falling around with an internal glow.  I did something similar with Ice/EA that makes it look like snow.  

This makes me think of Johnny Blaze the Human Torch.  While Ben Grimms Thing is arguably one of the Quintessential Tanks Johnny (to me) was always a 2nd string hero.  Not really in the top top notch but no doubt a powerful super.  Sentinel Fire/Will would be able to perfectly replicate this.  Boundless energy enthusiasm.  Check.  Good damage dealer. Check.  Throw in some dad jokes and you got a clone.

[oldskool]

55 minutes ago, Snarky said:

This makes me think of Johnny Blaze the Human Torch.  While Ben Grimms Thing is arguably one of the Quintessential Tanks Johnny (to me) was always a 2nd string hero.  Not really in the top top notch but no doubt a powerful super.  Sentinel Fire/Will would be able to perfectly replicate this.  Boundless energy enthusiasm.  Check.  Good damage dealer. Check.  Throw in some dad jokes and you got a clone.

 

Poor Reed... 

I do understand how Benjie is viewed as the quintessential brick character (like, even literally) but good old Reed has a lot going for him that gets overlooked.  😞  Same with SusieQ.  She's by far the most powerful character on the team and Reed is practically indestructible.  Reed's physiology is such that his tensile strength when wrapping around an enraged Hulk can hold it for a time.  Reed hasn't been cut by Adamantium when facing off against a mind controlled Wolverine either.  

Let Johnny and Ben take some spot lighting. Reed and Sue can quietly be super strong and hang out with the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe, their son Franklin. 😉 

[Chaos String]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

This makes me think of Johnny Blaze the Human Torch. 

Nitpicking here, but Johnny Blaze is Ghost Rider.  Johnny Storm is the Human Torch. 

 

And I'm pretty sure Human Torch would be Fire Armor, not Willpower.

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, Chaos String said:

And I'm pretty sure Human Torch would be Fire Armor, not Willpower.

 

Well, he's carrying a shield now...

[Snarky]

26 minutes ago, Chaos String said:

Nitpicking here, but Johnny Blaze is Ghost Rider.  Johnny Storm is the Human Torch. 

 

And I'm pretty sure Human Torch would be Fire Armor, not Willpower.

I’m horrid at names.  You are right of course.  
 

fire armor would be more appropriate but willPower would be more effective.  Thrown on a red/orange unitard with that glow skin (forget the name, of course) and then add a fire aura. Done

Edited July 2, 2021 by Snarky

[Underfyre]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Well, he's carrying a shield now...

So you're saying I'm going to need Deflection and Battle Agility from Shield Defense, but also Fire Shield and Plasma shield from Fiery Aura?

[Zerethon]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:51 AM, Luminara said:

But don't let facts interrupt a perfectly good tantrum.  Please, carry on.  I'm sure the people who spend their free time working on the game, with no compensation beyond the expressions of gratitude from others, are delighted to be called to task and verbally abused over things they didn't do or for failing to acquiesce to your whims.

Like most people, i've been here since the Original Score server went public, the original meltdown, the false threats that nuked it, etc. and i would gladly take a couple days out of my free time to use the same tools they are or even some others that i have access to to literally fix the descriptions, fix broken powers and possibly even throw in some overall community tweaks to the class and just send them the files. Heck, at least a year ago now, i was highly active in the sentinel rework threads bouncing the ideas/balance around from the board.

Yes, sentinels are inherently a "Flawed" AT because high defense + Pure ranged damage is an inherently OP combination, but this is also CoX where even blasters now can use incarns and IO sets to do similar builds with several times the damage and nearly as much defense, and breakfrees are cheap to carry a couple.

In short, we KNOW it's an ancient experimental AT that was made just to learn how making new classes worked, it's just annoying that after this long of homecoming being up, nobody seems to have even poked anything in the class to even try to fix super-old issues with it. Despite basically thousands of threads/tickets/posts/etc both pointing out and/or offering fixes

I'm positive i'm not the only one with any GDev experience that would gladly take up the Sentinel Dev role for a while to fix them up.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

Heck, at least a year ago now, i was highly active in the sentinel rework threads

 

A couple dozen posts over the course of six weeks in a single thread isn't high activity.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

Yes, sentinels are inherently a "Flawed" AT

 

A year ago, you said that sentinels were fine, other than Opportunity needing a revamp.  You gushed about how good sentinels are (not an exaggeration).

 

If coming back and finding that one power isn't exactly what you want it to be has completely redefined your perspective of the entire archetype, then it's not the archetype or the power, it's you.  So what's really bothering you?  Relationship troubles?  Family drama?  Wonder Woman 1984 disappointment?  We're all here, lay it on us.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

it's just annoying that after this long of homecoming being up, nobody seems to have even poked anything in the class to even try

 

 

As I explained already, the current development team have their own prioritization in addressing issues.  If sentinels aren't currently performing so poorly that they're dead last in any metric, and none of the primaries or secondaries are drastically under-performing in comparison to other primaries or secondaries, then they're not at the top of the list to be dealt with.  They'll get to it when more immediate and important issues, as determined by them, not you, have been resolved.  Derogatory shouting won't make them get to it any sooner.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

I'm positive i'm not the only one with any GDev experience that would gladly take up the Sentinel Dev role for a while to fix them up.

I'm equally positive that the majority of people would prefer that you didn't.  No-one wants to play a hybrid dominator/crab/sentinel with copypasta mechanics.  Let it go.

[Zerethon]

7 hours ago, Luminara said:

A year ago, you said that sentinels were fine, other than Opportunity needing a revamp.  You gushed about how good sentinels are (not an exaggeration).

 

If coming back and finding that one power isn't exactly what you want it to be has completely redefined your perspective of the entire archetype, then it's not the archetype or the power, it's you.  So what's really bothering you?  Relationship troubles?  Family drama?  Wonder Woman 1984 disappointment?  We're all here, lay it on us.

And i still stand by my original statements, my 2 most played and rolled classes on homecoming are my old love stalkers, and my new love sentinels. Blazing blast didn't kill that at all, rather re-highlighted the fact that this AT basically hasn't been touched since it's inception and opened that old wound.

See, sentinel damage is fine, the EFFECT of opportunity is fine (The mechanic is flawed due to poor design and implementation) and they play fine. That's the problem though that i think is at play here.

It's TOO "Fine" - Why dedicate any effort if the AT is fine? sure it annoys us that some changes/powers make absolutely no sense, but it's still fine so just ignore it, Right?

I Mean, dealing with blazing blast was easy enough, i just swapped it for fire breath and the char feels a lot better to play because i'm not randomnly yeeting my target out of my shenanigans or melee range, but that doesn't make blazing blast NOT badly implemented when compared to the other modified powers. Most of which (Excluding a couple, like power push) are basically just "Snipe with no snipe charge or requirements" Hence my slapdash comment from earlier in this thread.

In some cases, entirely new powers were made to replace things like damage auras or taunts, but then in basically all the primary sets, nobody has ever gone through and re-done the descriptions to match the new effect (Tesla cage for instance, still says "Minor" damage, like so so many other powers)

And opportunity, well, there's been like 700 billion ideas thrown around, and it's still the same janky domination palette-swap it's always been. Did you know some sentinel sets are more broken than others by some peoples definition? Because you can STACK it? any set with 2 slow projectile attacks (Ice, fire, dark, etc.) that have fast animations can actually double-stack Offensive and defensive replete with the double vuln across up to 2 targets, which still doesn't make it "Great" because of it being reliant on actually hitting something to trigger, but it does mean certain blast sets have an "Unfair Advantage" by design.

So no, my perspective hasn't changed. It's just an old wound of coming back and us still being riddled with jank that causes the occasional jarring kick out of my happy fun time of draining every AV/GM of their entire end bar.

[Snarky]

Fixing Opportunity to actually DO something.  (and I mean a metric crapton more than it does now.  like 'Domination' good.  Way better than Scourge good.  - technical descriptions perfect. heh.) That might be the only thing sentinels need.  

 

But 1) It would need to be a life changing fix. 2) it ain't happening 3) there is another thread for that.  4) addendum.  if the do 'fix' the Sentinel inherent.....it will be an anemic passover.  Like getting a 700 lb diabetic to give up 100 calories a day.  then be like 'you gotta start somewhere'

 

[Omega Force]

RE: Human Torch

 

In the old days he wasn't like the Summers brothers; he didn't just show up blasting fools.  (Although when he finally did, he was good at it.)  Normally he'd use his fire as area denial and control, so I'd make him a Fire/Fire dominator before a sentinel.

[Luminara]

10 hours ago, Zerethon said:

It's TOO "Fine" - Why dedicate any effort if the AT is fine? sure it annoys us that some changes/powers make absolutely no sense, but it's still fine so just ignore it, Right?

 

There are things that aren't fine and far more desperately in need of redress, and the HC team is not only unpaid and doing this in their spare time, they're also an extremely small group of people.  This isn't a game development studio working together in an office building.  They're not working with practically unlimited resources.  They don't have 25 hours in the day and 8 days in the week.  And they're not going to drop everything to polish sentinels while leaving everything that they consider to be more critical twisting in the wind.

 

Sentinels aren't unplayable.  Other things are, in the context of the current direction in which the game is going and where the HC team would like it to be.  So those other things are being addressed first.  I lived with TA being the absolute bottom of the barrel for six years on the original servers, you can put up with sentinels being less than perfect for a while.

 

[Snarky]

I am actually moving on (again) to a rad/fire brute.  For farming somewhat, but also for the sheer joy of crazed Point Blank damage madness. Two builds of course.  Farm builds are sideways to TFs

[Zerethon]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

I am actually moving on (again) to a rad/fire brute.  For farming somewhat, but also for the sheer joy of crazed Point Blank damage madness. Two builds of course.  Farm builds are sideways to TFs

Just swap Fire aura for Elec armor and you can run 1 build 😁since /elec has better coverage for resists and a better heal + Gets a free travel power so you get an extra pick for giggles. My Spines/Elec and SS/Elec can easily clear the +4/x8 Fire farms while also still being able to tank basically anything in the game with relative impunity.

It IS slower to farm with though, no burn or fiery embrace, but that's a trade i'm willing to make for the easier build
 

 

9 hours ago, Luminara said:

Sentinels aren't unplayable.  Other things are, in the context of the current direction in which the game is going and where the HC team would like it to be.  So those other things are being addressed first.  I lived with TA being the absolute bottom of the barrel for six years on the original servers, you can put up with sentinels being less than perfect for a while.

 

I'm curious as to what is "Unplayable" right now, as i assume it has more to do with actual content and not AT's

And Trick arrow (Which i assume you mean by TA) Was never unplayably bad, especially when built well, it was just Niche, due to redraw you basically had to be Archery/TA to not slow down your rotation and the sheer stupid number of "Ground" targeted effects that should have been just TAoE make it tricky to play well. Plus it was also just weird with things like oil slick/ignite and also having an anti-machine power that was just "Usable" against non-machines for it's T9.

But this is the sentinel board, not the Corr/Def/MM/Etc ones.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Zerethon said:

I'm curious as to what is "Unplayable" right now

 

Not sentinels.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

And Trick arrow (Which i assume you mean by TA) Was never unplayably bad

 

I didn't say it was unplayable.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

due to redraw you basically had to be Archery/TA

 

In Issue 11, BAB revamped almost all of the weapon animations in the game and rejiggered the sequencers so with or without the weapon drawn, the total animation time was identical.  And even if he hadn't, it wouldn't have been relevant for TA because TA's debuffs weren't powerful enough to allow a player to drag out the process of debuffing by cycling blasts between debuffs, the set historically required the player to go full monty to achieve a reasonable modicum of survivability.  Debuff, debuff, debuff, then blast.

 

I mained a TA/Dark for almost 6 years.  I played more TA/* and */TA combinations than I care to think about, including the TA/Archery defender I leveled to 50 before Issue 7.  Redraw was never a real issue for TA.  The abysmally low debuff values, the long recharge times, the lack of any means of aiding a team more directly if the controls/debuffs failed to mitigate damage sufficiently, the overabundance of control in a defender primary, the years-long bug which prevented OSA from being used as a reliable damage source and deprived the player of the OSA target when he/she had an ignition failure, the migraine-inducing pulsating ring graphics in Disruption Arrow, the lack of any customizability of the powers themselves... take your pick.

 

I'll also note that Archery had buggy post-animation pauses in Aimed Shot and Ranged Shot which were fixed multiple times (they didn't stay fixed until near sunset).  Getting a TA or Archery bug fixed was never a priority, either, it typically took months (if not years) even with me and others talking with Castle on a weekly basis.  So any imagined time saved from redraw by pairing TA with Archery was lost in the periods when the Aimed/Ranged Shot animations were on the fritz, which was a not inconsiderable portion of the life of the sets.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

and the sheer stupid number of "Ground" targeted effects

 

Disruption Arrow and OSA were the only location AoEs in the set.  And Disruption Arrow wasn't restricted to ground placement, you could put it anywhere, including straight up in the air.  It would just hang there, a big, pulsing globe.

 

2 hours ago, Zerethon said:

it was also just weird with things like oil slick/ignite

 

You activate OSA, it creates a target, you hit the target with Fire/Energy damage, fire happens.  Or you use the target as a focal point for targeted AoEs, then make fire happen.  That's pretty straightforward.

 

1 hour ago, Zerethon said:

and also having an anti-machine power that was just "Usable" against non-machines for it's T9.

 

EMP Arrow wasn't an "anti-machine" power.  It had a damage component which only affected critters flagged as Electronic, but that was flavor, not the primary purpose of the power.  EMP Arrow was a mag 3 Hold with a 50% chance for an additional mag 1 Hold.  It also had a comparatively long duration (nearly 30s base at level 50, twice the duration of controller primary AoE Holds), and being able to use it at range, rather than in melee (EMP Arrow was copied from EM Pulse (Radiation Emission T9)), made it the hands down best AoE Hold in the game.  "Machines" had nothing to do with what the power was or how it was intended to be used.

 

I wrote the book on TA.  Twice.  You... give the impression of having just read some power descriptions on the very recent iteration of TA and mistaken it for the historical version of the set.  I don't think this is a conversation you want to have.

 

2 hours ago, Zerethon said:

But this is the sentinel board, not the Corr/Def/MM/Etc ones.

 

Mechanics have no specific board.  And if you don't want to veer off into a side discussion, don't start a side discussion.

[Snarky]

Unplayable.  ?!?   No, they are not unplayable.  I have a friend who is a much better player than me.  Uses a Water Sentinel as a main. I got upbraided a bit for smack talking Sentinels to them
 

But are Sentinels in a “fair” spot.  The general  consensus seems to be no, they have been shorted a bit.  
 

yes i have always gamed a bit as a “power gamer”.  Why would you want a VW bug when you can have a Porsche.  Both designed by same man.  One is just better

 

so, they are not unplayable.  But i am going to take the Porsche

 

 

[Zerethon]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:39 AM, Luminara said:

I wrote the book on TA.  Twice.  You... give the impression of having just read some power descriptions on the very recent iteration of TA and mistaken it for the historical version of the set.  I don't think this is a conversation you want to have.

 

Mechanics have no specific board.  And if you don't want to veer off into a side discussion, don't start a side discussion.

*Sigh* Alright then, since this post has devolved into personal attacks and banter anyways, let's play that game, shall we?

I have been around CoX since BEFORE "Through the looking glass" back before level 50, costume editing, or really any of the modern conveniences we all know and love. And my lazy descriptions of something not relevant to the board shouldn't be taken as gospel, or a full descriptor.

But, lets address those big 3 and their mechanics. (And yes, at one point, i know that TA was 4 out of 9 powers location targeted. Hence my comment about it having too many for a while)

OSA is weird, it's always been weird, and it should stay weird. It's basically the only power in the game where you spawn an attack-able object that causes a delayed secondary effect, you drop the oil slick, and then either intentionally ignite it with direct damage, or you hit it with an AOE that triggers it to ignite. It's been a minute since i've pulled out any of my /TA's on homecoming, but it was originally ONLY fire that could ignite it. Which meant you either needed Archery's fire arrow, a flavor of fire blast, a fire proc, or a teammate with fire damage to trigger it.

This made it basically the only power IN THE GAME with an elemental requirement to use it fully (A distinction i'm 90% sure was still true til' live closing) and hence, weird, it meant if you had no personal native way to trigger it, you couldn't actually use all of the power. Again, weird, but not "Bad" by any means.

Disruption arrow is just, disruption arrow, and arguably one of the best powers in the set alongside acid arrow and EMP, being the trio of "Screw this group in particular" and there's not much to be said for an AOE -Resist power, other than the fact that like OSA it was a location-target effect, which had it's upsides and downsides. Though yes, old Disruptor was a particularly annoying griefing tool

And EMP being just "Usable" is the fact that yes, it is a long-duration M3 hold, but the problem is that basically everything it was capable of 1-hit mezzing on non-trollers is inconsequential in most teams, since the fodder is usually dead instantly, but it is a slick opener when solo, just the downside of being treated like a blaster ult (Massive cost + no end regen on self after use) because it did damage to some targets and held was rather....annoying.

However, -regen is arguably one of the strongest effects in the game, it's basically a requisite for solo-killing AV/M/GM level enemies, but sets like /Cold (Post I12) kinda do it better, since Benumb and the ilk can be perma'd and AOE -Regen isn't valuable in most situations, excluding things like LRSF/STF And lets not even touch the homecoming version(s?), since we're talking about the old days here.

So yes, i always considered it "Usable" or "Good" and it was never a skipped power, but most of it's effects were found in less-janky forms in other sets (Cold, Rad, Thermal, Etc.) so it was basically just a serious stun with a heavy downside. Why use /TA when i can use /Therm or /Cold and get the same kind of debuffs without the end crash downside?

The answer was always the MIX, TA was always good because it was basically all debuffs/controls as a trade for lacking support effects, i remember it being a fairly popular PVP set because of Glue/Entagling arrow being a reliable -fly effect without relying on epics like webnades

By far not my personal most-played set, but also not my least-favorite set in the game by far either. I will gladly defer to you for in-depth knowledge on the set, as we will naturally have differing opinions/expertise.

[Luminara]

10 hours ago, Zerethon said:

personal attacks

 

An observation isn't an attack.

 

10 hours ago, Zerethon said:

I have been around CoX since BEFORE "Through the looking glass" back before level 50, costume editing, or really any of the modern conveniences we all know and love.

 

That and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

 

10 hours ago, Zerethon said:

i know that TA was 4 out of 9 powers location targeted. Hence my comment about it having too many for a while

 

In the initial beta for Issue 5.  You can't draw this correlation because that version of TA existed for a very, very short time and disappeared with the first I5 beta patch, and the majority of Co* players at that time never used the test server, never participated in beta and never had the faintest idea what TA did or how it worked, nor is it possible that even a single player who joined after the first I5 beta patch could have developed that impression since that TA never existed for them.

 

Sorry, but no, you can't say that a couple hundred thousand people who never saw TA with 4/9 location-targeted powers shied away from it due to that.

 

Additionally, you didn't say the set had that many location-targeted powers "for a while", you said:

On 7/3/2021 at 10:10 PM, Zerethon said:

the sheer stupid number of "Ground" targeted effects that should have been just TAoE make it tricky to play well

You use the present tense in this sentence, not the past tense.  You make no reference to that brief period during at the outset of the I5 beta, you don't say, or imply, that the set had location-targeted powers "for a while", you discuss the set in the now.

 

Just not buying this backpedal.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

OSA is weird, it's always been weird, and it should stay weird. It's basically the only power in the game where you spawn an attack-able object that causes a delayed secondary effect, you drop the oil slick, and then either intentionally ignite it with direct damage, or you hit it with an AOE that triggers it to ignite.

 

Still not seeing the weird.  I have seen numerous requests for more power interaction of this nature, both on the original forums and here, though.  Give players an interaction between, for instance, Ice powers and Water Blast powers that causes the Water Blast powers to do something different and I can guarantee you that no-one's going to say it's weird.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

It's been a minute since i've pulled out any of my /TA's on homecoming, but it was originally ONLY fire that could ignite it.

 

OSA could always be ignited by either Fire or Energy damage.  Always, even in the first I5 beta release.  It's never been restricted to only Fire damage.  The power says "may burst into flames if fire is used near it", but it's never been restricted to Fire as the only ignition source.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

Which meant you either needed Archery's fire arrow, a flavor of fire blast, a fire proc, or a teammate with fire damage to trigger it.

 

You left out Radiation Blast, Beam Rifle, Dual Pistols with Incendiary Ammunition, Electrical Blast, Energy Blast, Sonic Attack, two Assault Rifle attacks and two Water Blast attacks.  As well as the Magic and Tech origin powers.  And temp powers which deal Fire or Energy damage.  And critters using Fire and Energy attacks.  And Arcane Bolt and Enflame.  And everything in the *PPs.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

This made it basically the only power IN THE GAME with an elemental requirement to use it fully (A distinction i'm 90% sure was still true til' live closing) and hence, weird, it meant if you had no personal native way to trigger it, you couldn't actually use all of the power.

 

The game was overflowing with ways to ignite OSA if you happened to play it without any Fire or Energy damage in your primary or secondary.  I mained a TA/Dark for six years.  /Dark is one of the three defender secondaries without any Fire or Energy damage.  Number of times I couldn't ignite OSA: 0.  This was a far greater concern to /TA controllers than it was for TA/ defenders, and even for them, it wasn't really a problem due to the abundance of options.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

And EMP being just "Usable" is the fact that yes, it is a long-duration M3 hold

 

That was not your original contention.  You stated that it was

On 7/3/2021 at 10:10 PM, Zerethon said:

an anti-machine power that was just "Usable" against non-machines

You implied that the purpose of EMP Arrow was to affect targets flagged as Electronic and that affecting other targets was just a side-effect.  That was wrong.  Veering off on a three paragraph monologue about AVs and blaster nukes doesn't correct the misinformation, or distract the reader from the fact that it was wrong.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

the problem is that basically everything it was capable of 1-hit mezzing on non-trollers is inconsequential in most teams, since the fodder is usually dead instantly,

 

You're making the mistake of conflating the current state of the game with how it existed before Incarnate abilities, before the P2W vendor, before IO set recipes and enhancements were easily available and affordable.  Again.  We didn't have soft-capped blasters soloing Master of * runs at +4/x8 in those days.  We didn't have rotating Judgement nukes on teams.  We didn't have a lot of what we have now, and we didn't have the leeway to consider EMP Arrow to be inconsequential when it was capable of doing with one power what all eight of our other powers couldn't do even a tenth as well (mitigate damage).

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

just the downside of being treated like a blaster ult (Massive cost + no end regen on self after use)

 

On the contrary, it was significantly better than blaster nukes.  Blaster nukes, during the period in question, had a crash - a complete drain of the endurance bar - in addition to the -Recovery applied to the character.  EMP Arrow had a sizeable cost, true, and a 15s -Recovery penalty, but there was no crash.  No, not even in the I5 beta.

 

11 hours ago, Zerethon said:

because it did damage to some targets and held

 

Wrong.  The negative aspects of EMP Arrow existed not because it dealt damage, but to balance the insanely long duration of the Hold (controller primary AoE Holds have a base 14.9s duration at level 50, EMP Arrow for a controller had a base 27.9s duration at level 50 (base 22.35s duration at level 50 for defenders), the 50% chance for +1 mag Hold, the sizeable -End applied to targets, the higher base hit chance than other AoE Holds... the fact that it also dealt a pitiable amount of damage to Electronic targets wasn't even a factor.  It meant absolutely nothing to the developers, it was just flavor.

 

12 hours ago, Zerethon said:

However, -regen is arguably one of the strongest effects in the game, it's basically a requisite for solo-killing AV/M/GM level enemies, but sets like /Cold (Post I12) kinda do it better, since Benumb and the ilk can be perma'd and AOE -Regen isn't valuable in most situations, excluding things like LRSF/STF

 

One: soloing AVs wasn't the norm on the original servers, and it wasn't because of a lack of -Regen, it was because the economy was a hideous mess with individual IOs going over 3 billion inf*, preventing players from acquiring set bonuses like they can now, which means you're once again referring to the current state of the game as though it's the only version of the game that's ever existed (losing track of how frequently you do that); and two; TA could maintain two stacks of Disruption, toss on Acid and throw in a couple of -Res procs (which were dirt cheap in those days, compared to other valued IOs), using only TA powers.  100-120% -Res (extremely high +Recharge builds could triple-stack Disruption for a few seconds) tends to work rather well as a substitute for -Regen.  That's not, of course, including other options, like Sonic Attack stacking more -Res, or pool powers.  Or adding in the damage from a burning oil slick acting.

 

Storm defenders and controllers could solo AVs, with stacked Freezing Rains and two pseudo-pets dealing bonus damage for them, and Storm had 0% -Regen.  TA couldn't, but not because they lacked sustainable -Regen, rather because the total mitigation offered by Flash, Glue, Entangling and PGA was horribly insufficient.  We had enough stackable -Res and additional damage output to do the job, we didn't have enough survivability.

 

12 hours ago, Zerethon said:

So yes, i always considered it "Usable" or "Good" and it was never a skipped power, but most of it's effects were found in less-janky forms in other sets (Cold, Rad, Thermal, Etc.) so it was basically just a serious stun with a heavy downside.

 

EMP Arrow applies a mag 3 Hold with a 50% chance for +1 mag, not a Stun.

 

12 hours ago, Zerethon said:

we will naturally have differing opinions/expertise

 

Oh, are you're going to bring some expertise to this discussion?  That would be a refreshing change.

[DrInfernus]

It’s clear that I’m in - or am - a tiny majority, but I really like Blazing Blast. It’s brilliant solo and it negates tougher foes, which in teams is good when you’re trying to get a boss away from a weaker teammate. 
 

I love it 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited July 20, 2021 by DrInfernus

[Bill Z Bubba]

23 hours ago, DrInfernus said:

It’s clear that I’m in - or am - a tiny majority, but I really like Blazing Blaze. It’s brilliant solo and it negates tougher foes, which in teams is good when you’re trying to get a boss away from a weaker teammate. 
 

I love it 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

I had a KB->KD enh in mine for a while which was nice (the repel portion is pretty short) but in the end I swapped it out for a damage proc. Just wish the repel and KB were strong enough to affect AVs so I could lock them in a corner to keep them from runnin all over the damn map.

[Warboss]

After liking the term YEET Lazer, turned into name, and rolling the toon, I'm liking Sents for the first time. I'm having fun playing him and he seems to do pretty well for me. I was going to try the KB>KD proc in it as Bill mentioned above, but the distance KB'd isn't that bad and I try to knock the goons into a wall or other objects to prevent the team from having to chase them (although shooting them into a ramp of any kind and watching them sailing through the air in the "Hey I can see my house from here!!" fashion is fun). I do agree over all that both the KB and repel seems a bit much for the power. One or the other would be enough, with the KB being the easiest to mitigate. But, as other's mentioned it doesn't seem to be  a deal breaker. The worse part for me is the delay in casting. I fire the BB off and the goon has to move position, so where I want them to go, sometimes isn't where they end up as they've been able to significantly modify the angle they were originally at. Maybe reduce the cast time to make up for the repel and KD?