What are you guys doing to revive PvP? A suggestion.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Super Atom said:

 

We're gonna add "Cant read" to your long list of short comings. It clearly states "every PvP zone including bloody bay full of people, after they got added. "

 

You continue to look like a biased clown making a point you can't prove and wouldn't even know since you didn't PvP and despite first hand accounts of PvP being active you continue to push a false narrative. Just give it up you toxic waste of time. I well and truly feel sad that you have so much hate in your heart over other people enjoying something, It's really sad.

Amusing. I did mention that there's two reasons pvp doesn't do well in CoH, the first was the toxicity of pvpers, by and large. I guess, thanks for validating that perception 😆

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Amusing. I did mention that there's two reasons pvp doesn't do well in CoH, the first was the toxicity of pvpers, by and large. I guess, thanks for validating that perception 😆

 

Nice dodge of misreading and insulting me, sure that's not toxic at all. Or do you need more time to think of a new lie?

 

I'm 100% name calling and be toxic in my replies to you, I'm only giving my toxicity back to your toxicity.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Super Atom

[Greycat]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

Amusing. I did mention that there's two reasons pvp doesn't do well in CoH, the first was the toxicity of pvpers, by and large. I guess, thanks for validating that perception 😆

 

You're being fairly toxic in here yourself, given the last few replies. Best stop yelling at the kettle.

[SwitchFade]

2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

None of my posts were edited after you replied to them. This is proven by time stamps.

 

Idk why you continue to lie when called out. I resort to name calling because all you've done is be toxic, make false accusations, and use strawman arguements to be dismissive.

Sure sure.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

Sure sure.

 

Unlike you, i can actually back up my claims.

 

 

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

 

You're being fairly toxic in here yourself, given the last few replies. Best stop yelling at the kettle.

Interesting. So, when attacked, insulted, misquoted, misinterpreted, called a liar, shameful, disgusting and straw manned, its not acceptable to not allow it to slide. Gotcha. I had also expected better of you as well.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

Interesting. So, when attacked, insulted, misquoted, misinterpreted, called a liar, shameful, disgusting and straw manned, its not acceptable to not allow it to slide. Gotcha. I had also expected better of you as well.

 

Our first interaction, -I agreed with you- and then, your follow up was to be toxic about how you'd stop donating if resources was put twords PvP and how terrible PvP is. you came into this thread just to be toxic about PvP, you have no ground to stand on in the blame game.

[ninja surprise]

On 7/18/2021 at 2:12 PM, Illy said:

I'm convinced that the only other change which has a chance at reviving pvp would be to vastly improve the reward system in arenas and zone pvp, but to what end? The game is too easy for any rewards to really matter to players-- prestige doesn't exist, and there is no content in the game that can't already be beaten easily. A pvp system which relies on players basically pvping for the sake of it, and for "fun", always dies a quick death. For active pvp to be sustained, a logical reward system needs to be in place. That, or pvp needs to be unavoidable. 

 

Sorry for the low effort post, I typed this quickly because I realize that it has about a 0.001% chance of coming to fruition. Developmental work is unpaid, and the community has proven to be recalcitrant to any challenge whatsoever. But I thought I'd give it a try, because I miss pvp . 

 

 

It goes back to the question of "what are you doing to revive PvP?" If you know people aren't going to do it for fun or just for the sake of it, are you organizing events, giving prizes, writing guides, etc? How are you making it rewarding for people to participate? Why would someone want to go get ganked by a min/maxer with a billion dollar build?

 

If we assume that most people either don't care about PvP or don't want to, then changing the game to force them to do it will just alienate them or drive them away.  You need to entice them with rewards. If Homecoming team doesn't have resources or motivation to recode the game to make PvP attractive, then it's up to you, the PvP players, to talk people into it.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, Super Atom said:

 

Our first interaction, -I agreed with you- and then, your follow up was to be toxic about how you'd stop donating if resources was put twords PvP and how terrible PvP is. you came into this thread just to be toxic about PvP, you have no ground to stand on in the blame game.

Ah I see, because you like pvp and others disagree, then you can attack them with insults. That's very noble.

[Super Atom]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

Ah I see, because you like pvp and others disagree, then you can attack them with insults. That's very noble.

 

Stop playing the victim card, lets reword your sentence.

 

Ah i see, because you dont like pvp and others disagree, then you can attack them with insults. That's very noble.

[Greycat]

7 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Interesting. So, when attacked, insulted, misquoted, misinterpreted, called a liar, shameful, disgusting and straw manned, its not acceptable to not allow it to slide. Gotcha. I had also expected better of you as well.

 

You've been misquoting and misinterpeting, deliberately, things that were said as well. Don't try to put yourself forward as being innocent there. In fact, *EVEN THIS QUOTE* is misrepresenting what *I* said. Which is to point out you're being toxic. Not "Don't defend your point of view" or "Don't defend yourself."

 

You're also painting an *entire group of people* with a fairly wide brush there.  It's not acceptable when we're talking about someone's race, gender or country of origin, it's not acceptable here talking about PVPers. Which, by the way, also includes PVE players, as the communities crossed over (and still do.)

 

Stop while you're behind. I had expected better of you, after all.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Greycat

[SwitchFade]

Just now, Greycat said:

 

You've been misquoting and misinterpeting, deliberately, things that were said as well. Don't try to put yourself forward as being innocent there.

 

You're also painting an *entire group of people* with a fairly wide brush there.  It's not acceptable when we're talking about someone's race, gender or country of origin, it's not acceptable here talking about PVPers. Which, by the way, also includes PVE players, as the communities crossed over (and still do.)

 

Stop while you're behind.

Ah, Grey, sad really. I'm disappointed in you, but at least I am aware now.

[Greycat]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

Ah, Grey, sad really. I'm disappointed in you, but at least I am aware now.

 

As am I. Goodbye, SF.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

 

As am I. Goodbye, SF.

Cheers, sad you went down that road.

 

Enjoy it.

[TraumaTrain]

Yay PvP!

[Illy]

3 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

 

It goes back to the question of "what are you doing to revive PvP?" If you know people aren't going to do it for fun or just for the sake of it, are you organizing events, giving prizes, writing guides, etc? How are you making it rewarding for people to participate? Why would someone want to go get ganked by a min/maxer with a billion dollar build?

 

If we assume that most people either don't care about PvP or don't want to, then changing the game to force them to do it will just alienate them or drive them away.  You need to entice them with rewards. If Homecoming team doesn't have resources or motivation to recode the game to make PvP attractive, then it's up to you, the PvP players, to talk people into it.

 

When players must resort to campaigning in order to raise pvp activity, in lieu of quality mechanics which by default attract people to pvp, they only prolong the miserable slow-death of the activity while at the same time expending huge amounts of effort, and for so little return. 

 

In my experience, when the burden is placed on the shoulders of players, those shoulders prove much to feeble even to save activity levels, much less bring about some kind of restoration. 

 

A more personal answer, though, is that I am one of those players who will get ganked by a min/maxer with a billion dollar build-- I'm a noob compared to most of these people, as I've had no reason to believe so far that a significant time-investment would be worth it for me, not until I gain some indication that pvp is on the rise. So if someone wants to exert themselves toward this effort, though it would be futile in any case, it would have to be someone who is, for lack of a better term, a veteran. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Illy

[Illy]

32 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

 

You're also painting an *entire group of people* with a fairly wide brush there.  It's not acceptable when we're talking about someone's race, gender or country of origin, it's not acceptable here talking about PVPers. Which, by the way, also includes PVE players, as the communities crossed over (and still do.)

 

 

I didn't bother reading the post you're reacting to, but I expected when creating this thread that a few PVE-oriented players would be moved to visceral anger at the mere mention of pvp. I was not disappointed. They came to this thread to express their bizarre hatred of "pvpers" (I guess we're a "type"?). Its not worth interacting with them. 

 

 

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Illy said:

 

I didn't bother reading the post you're reacting to, but I expected when creating this thread that a few PVE-oriented players would be moved to visceral anger at the mere mention of pvp. I was not disappointed. They came to this thread to express their bizarre hatred of "pvpers" (I guess we're a "type"?). Its not worth interacting with them. 

 

 

 

That's what set me off in the first place, and I'll be first to admit I return toxicity when its given. It's gotten me in trouble on the forums before but i don't do well with being talked down to or insulted and this entire exchange started because of a blatant toxic comment of saying PvPers are toxic people, despite most PvPers i've ever met being some of the nicer people in the game. Always willing to help out new people, teaming with less experienced people in kickballs, and general build help and advice on getting started. It's disrespect to a lot of friends and in my case now family members who loved and enjoyed PvP and were nothing but kind people.

[GraspingVileTerror]

As an attempt to get a ray of sunshine in here, and maybe move the topic toward something productive:
@Super Atom, thank you for sharing that you met your spouse through this game.  PvP in particular.  I think it's important to focus on truths such as that one, for everyone, when we're discussing various parts of the game which hold personal importance to us.

[Mezmera]

I enjoyed both PvE and PvP when the game was active on live.   I adapted to the new pvp although some aspects of it left for some things to be desired and some things felt like they were on the right path towards.  Neither areas of the game in my eyes were perfect.  I wanted a lot more endgame content to do, which is what pvp kind of became for me since it always felt like fresh things I was engaging with.  Then there was the assumption the game would stay active for them to keep tinkering with their pvp project.  

 

I do think pvp should be a viable area of the game and should get some support.  But with how much that has regressed since what was last on live to where it's at now I'd rather they spent more time creating pve content since the concept of that area doesn't elude them as much as what clearly eludes them for pvp.  

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Mezmera

[Widower]

Hello. Cut it out. Thanks.

[Bionic_Flea]

But Widower, the forum PvP was getting better than the in-game PvP!

[America's Angel]

On 7/21/2021 at 1:28 AM, SwitchFade said:

You're inferring I think they do answer to us, I was very explicit in stating that my contribution is exactly that, not a salary or a contingency. A decision to update a part of the game is fine, I was clear in saying that if major resources were dedicated, that comes at a cost, one which I do not condone and would be unwilling to contribute to, and that is 100% valid. Time spent doing that, when it would otherwise be spent on anything else, including PvE, is a cost.

 

I think the last sentence in your post here is the key to our disconnect, here. Especially "would otherwise be spent on". The devs are volunteers who work as much/as little as they like, on whatever they want. Therefore, time not spent on PvP isn't automatically time spent on PvE. It's not an equivalent cost. (It would be if they were an organisation with a set number of hours to fill per week. But that's not what they are - they're a bunch of individuals doing whatever they want. So individual motivation is what determines things, not collective pragmatism.)

 

Case in point: last year Faultline jumped on the PvP discord to chat to a bunch of us because he wanted to make some PvP changes. He spent most of the night doing it, and we got a bunch of awesome, small, PvP tweaks. His motivation for doing this? A bunch of PvEers had repeatedly claimed the /enterbasefrompasscode removal was a PvP change, and were critical of it. Faultline thought "well if I'm going to get blamed for PvP changes, I might as well make some!"

 

In that instance, if Faultline hadn't made those PvP changes...would he have otherwise spent his evening making PvE changes, instead? Of course not. The motivation to do so wasn't there. Because that's what this comes down to, the individual motivation of each dev to work on whatever they feel like.

 

Another example - let's assume the dev team lose all semblance of rational thought and ask me to be the PvP dev. Let's say I spend a month tweaking PvP powers, introducing new maps, re-adding in base raids, etc. That's a huge amount of time spent, right? If I wasn't doing that, would I otherwise be spending my time tweaking PvE powers, introducing new AE maps, adding in new items for base builders, and other PvE changes?

 

Hell no. That's not my area of interest. And if this is a hobby I do in my spare time, I focus on the bits I like and ignore the rest.

 

This is why I always get a bit O_o whenever people accuse the devs of "wasting their time". Comments like that fundamentally misunderstand the power dynamic of the player-dev relationship. We are playing in their hobbyspace. They're gracious hosts, but we shouldn't be commenting on what they decide to spend their time on.

[America's Angel]

It's important to point out that the PvP population is decreasing though. Most MMORPGs that aren't pvp-focused, tend to have a ~5% of the population that are active PvPers.

 

When I checked last year. Homecoming was around ~4-5%

 

I just checked now...

 

 

 

And now it's down to 2.4%.

 

I think something does need to be done. Nothing as drastic as OP suggested. But the three obvious ideas:

 

-Noob-friendly events on the busiest servers (not Indomitable) hosted by the official Homecoming PvP GMs and CRs. (Advertised on the forums and in-game.)

-PvP versions of every IO in the game, which can be purchased for free, and that only work in PvP.

-Updated guides from veteran players.

 

These three things would get a lot more new players interested in PvP.

Edited July 22, 2021 by America's Angel

[Greycat]

12 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

-PvP versions of every IO in the game, which can be purchased for free, and that only work in PvP.

 

 

I'd say that was a radical idea, if not for the "free accolades that only work in PVP" that already exist. And it would very directly and decisively knock down one of the things I mentioned as a barrier to entry (having gone from "everyone's using SOs" to the current setup where, yes, a build *is* important.)

 

No, it wouldn't completely throw the door open to where we'd see a giant chunk of people in zone (or arena) events - but it'd help. Or at least have people feel like staying around to learn is *worthwhile.*

 

... You'd just have to teach them how to use/access a second or third build. ;) About the only thing I'd say to go along *with* this is a popup or something to warn someone going from a PVP to PVE environment that "Reminder: You are currently using PVP-only IOs that will not work in PVE content!" But that isn't a huge deal (unless it's their only build, somehow - like they respecced instead of using a secondary build.)