Preventive Medicine: Absorb Proc... In "Rest?"

[Vulpoid]

I was wondering, since the trigger is stated as your health being between 31 and 75%...
Would this still function just being slotted in Rest?
( The backstory is basically I am respec'ing a lv 50 Dark/Dark Blaster, and would rather slot Life Drain for damage. I have the empty slot in Rest. If I put the Proc in Rest, will it still fire when my health is low, not just when I use Rest? I actually have a full set of Preventative Medicine, but no good places to put it. Might email the set to another character...)

Thanks for any advice! 

[Mezmera]

8 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

I was wondering, since the trigger is stated as your health being between 31 and 75%...
Would this still function just being slotted in Rest?
( The backstory is basically I am respec'ing a lv 50 Dark/Dark Blaster, and would rather slot Life Drain for damage. I have the empty slot in Rest. If I put the Proc in Rest, will it still fire when my health is low, not just when I use Rest? I actually have a full set of Preventative Medicine, but no good places to put it. Might email the set to another character...)

Thanks for any advice! 

 

Can't put it there I already tried that.  

 

You can put it in health or any selected power that provides health/regen.  It'll fire inconsistently between 30-70% yes and for certain when your health gets low but it feels a bit delayed, you'll see your health is real low and be like "okay absorb shield where are you" then it'll fire.  

 

You just need that proc slotted and it'll fire on its own no matter what power it is in, except Rest.  

[Vulpoid]

38 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Can't put it there I already tried that.  

Hmmm... I wonder why?
I am not arguing for it, mind you... I just wonder about the coding. 
Maybe because Rest takes "Enhance Healing" enhancements and Preventive is an  "Improve Healing" set item?
Are there any other Procs that work in Universal Inherent powers?
Does anybody know the sticking point or semantic caveat?

Edited August 28, 2021 by Vulpoid
further musing

[SuperPlyx]

I always found it interesting that you can not slot any invention set enhancements in Rest, Swift and Hurdle. They will only take regular enhancements and Hami.

 

I originally thought it was them being inherent and at sometime some of the inherent powers were changed to allow sets but not these 3. But that's just a guess. I do wonder what the real answer is.

 

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Vulpoid said:

Hmmm... I wonder why?
I am not arguing for it, mind you... I just wonder about the coding. 
Maybe because Rest takes "Enhance Healing" enhancements and Preventive is an  "Improve Healing" set item?
Are there any other Procs that work in Universal Inherent powers?
Does anybody know the sticking point or semantic caveat?

 

Given powers take enumerated lists of types of sets (including, potentially, no sets).

 

This generally works like "this power takes heal sets if it provides healing bonuses," but there's not actually a reason it has to.  You could make a bog-standard melee attack power and have it not take Melee Damage sets, but it does take, I dunno, Sleep sets, even if the power doesn't cause Sleeps.  Like, they wouldn't, but you could.  No part of the CoH code examines a power and says, "Well, this power 'should' take this set category."

 

So specifically for Rest, they don't want you to be able to slot Healing enhancement sets in it, presumably so that you don't have another essentially "free" slot to stuff procs into.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

I always found it interesting that you can not slot any invention set enhancements in Rest, Swift and Hurdle. They will only take regular enhancements and Hami.

 

I originally thought it was them being inherent and at sometime some of the inherent powers were changed to allow sets but not these 3. But that's just a guess. I do wonder what the real answer is.

 

It's to keep them from taking the travel sets that have the Stealth IO in them. You can turn off Sprint (and thus the Stealth property,) but not Swift/Hurdle, so any rescue/hostage taking mission where they had to follow you would be insanely frustrating if not impossible to complete.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Greycat

[Shred Monkey]

Issues like this fall into the "that's what the GMs decided to do" category.   Once upon a time this was an actual game, in that you would have to successfully complete content and challenges to earn rewards to improve your strength for future challenges and content.  In a game like that it makes sense to make rules like this one that, for no other reason, place limits on what the players can do.  

 

The current situation of this game is that it's more of a superhero sandbox then an actual game.  Therefore, today, all of these "arbitrary" limitations seem... well... arbitrary.  Many of these have been removed.  Some gaming "purists" might argue, too many.  Others say it's better this way.  

 

Also, others have pointed out that sometimes these fringe cases have unintended consequences (not being able to turn off stealth for example) and the easy button fix was to just not allow those those powers to slot the enhancement.

 

[aethereal]

Can rest actually be meaningfully enhanced at all?  It should probably be unslottable.  It has no recharge time or endurance cost, and I believe it hardcaps your regeneration, doesn't it?  If so, it can't have its healing meaningfully enhanced.

 

Edit:. It can have its interrupt time reduced.  It takes endmod and healing enhancements, too, though I'm not sure that they do literally anything and I am sure that they don't do anything meaningful.

Edited August 28, 2021 by aethereal

[Ironblade]

15 hours ago, Vulpoid said:

Hmmm... I wonder why?
I am not arguing for it, mind you... I just wonder about the coding. 
Maybe because Rest takes "Enhance Healing" enhancements and Preventive is an  "Improve Healing" set item?

Rest allows certain types of enhancements but does not allow any enhancement SETS.

So you can slot a regular heal enhancement (SO, common IO, etc) but not any piece that is part of a set.

 

 

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

Can rest actually be meaningfully enhanced at all?  It should probably be unslottable.  It has no recharge time or endurance cost, and I believe it hardcaps your regeneration, doesn't it?  If so, it can't have its healing meaningfully enhanced.=

Rest gives +1900% regeneration.

The cap for scrappers and stalkers is +3000%.  Does this matter in normal game play?  I would say no.  Does it matter when you're farming damage taken for badges?  Absolutely.

 

[arcane]

I think it’s reasonable that they don’t want inherent junk muling several powerful IO’s. Letting people slot Preventive Medicine in Rest and Blessing of the Zephyr in Sprint/Swift/Hurdle would be akin to giving nearly every character a handful of additional free slots. Considering that would constitute a power creep solution in search of a non-existent problem, I’d prefer the status quo.

[Outrider_01]

The absorb proc is less than stellar and a waste, the requirements needed to trigger are low health below 75% with 10% low chance to trigger  At 30% it triggers 100% chance and only every 90 seconds, it doesn't proc like Panacea +HP/Endurance.  It's pretty unreliable for a proc with stringent requirements compared to a damage proc which only goes off x times a minute.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The absorb proc is less than stellar and a waste, the requirements needed to trigger are low health below 75% with 10% low chance to trigger  At 30% it triggers 100% chance and only every 90 seconds, it doesn't proc like Panacea +HP/Endurance.  It's pretty unreliable for a proc with stringent requirements compared to a damage proc which only goes off x times a minute.

It’s there to give you a survival bump in a pinch.

 

Neither powers nor procs need to go off every 10 seconds to be useful. 

[Outrider_01]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

It’s there to give you a survival bump in a pinch.

 

Neither powers nor procs need to go off every 10 seconds to be useful. 

I didn't say it was a terrible choice, I said it was less than stellar  Its next to useless in most regards because the restrictions are so limiting and I had it on one character, after a few weeks got rid of it because I noticed it only triggered 3 times and even not seeing it I questioned if it was useful at all.  In a pinch is less useful if you have a heal you most likely recovered those lost hit points and the absorb is less helpful unless you are just debuffed to hell in -resist/-defense.  Damage proc could go off 6 times in 90 seconds.  A passive Numias, Regenerative Tissue, or Miracle provides a more consistent benefit.  LoTG, Kismet, KB protection.  Stealth IOs.  Unbreakable Guard +HP, Steadfast and Agesis +Defense.  The only limitation is the power it can be slotted in and if the character has access to that type of power; which you can get from power pools the AT doesn't have it. 

 

The only procs I am uneducated at are a +stun in End Mod sets which you can slot in Stamina (which would be weird if it triggered) and a -end in blast sets which is questionable.  The purple stun that adds -Tohit...if its stunned its not fighting back and a single boss is easier to deal with when the minions are window licking.  Dark Watchers -tohit set has -recharge, it already can't hit you so its kind of stupid to slow it down.  Deflated Ego is -recovery, which again is kind of useless since it can't hit you and -recovery is less useful than -regen; overcome HPs fast enough and it doesn't matter if it can hit back 5 times more 30 seconds from now if you flattened it in 20 seconds before even getting to 30 seconds.

 

If I was to list it in order of useful procs and the benefit the slot could be used anywhere else, the +Absorb would be near the bottom.  Even the odd ones I listed, would trigger more often in PVP if you wanted to just cripple someone for the fun of it before you killed them as the +Absorb would require to you take a hit first like Defiance 1.0 to get the benefit.

[tidge]

12 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The absorb proc is less than stellar and a waste, the requirements needed to trigger are low health below 75% with 10% low chance to trigger  At 30% it triggers 100% chance and only every 90 seconds...

 

I use the +Absorb proc strictly so that I don't have to watch my Health bar.

[Vengeful Arrow]

It has merit for characters that are not running around smashing everything in sight. It's for hat support character that the brute doesn't care about or that the tank forgot about, or the one that got splash damage from the aggro from the blaster that was hanging around for pity heals. There's numerous times on my corruptor that made me a believer. I slot it now all the time regardless of softcappong positions or stacked resists or my controllers who lock everything down. It's about a 200 point buffer to my health (mostly when I needed it) that let's me make a choice. When I see the red letters I pop a heal or purple or hold whatever. It's  better than having more regen or more endurance recover. Do I depend on it? No.  Is it better than adding .14 health per second, most definitely.  And yes that number for health regen was made up, to show how absurdly low that regen value is compared to a boost in hitpoints, even if it's not a permanent boost. It's still a get out of jail free card sometimes. 

[Xenosone]

On 8/28/2021 at 6:11 AM, aethereal said:

Can rest actually be meaningfully enhanced at all?  It should probably be unslottable.  It has no recharge time or endurance cost, and I believe it hardcaps your regeneration, doesn't it?  If so, it can't have its healing meaningfully enhanced.

 

Edit:. It can have its interrupt time reduced.  It takes endmod and healing enhancements, too, though I'm not sure that they do literally anything and I am sure that they don't do anything meaningful.

When i need to take alot of damage for a certain accolade slotting a heal in rest and taking a knee in front of a council rocket robot really gets that moving along. The heal enh is sometimes the difference between not enough regen and just right

 

[aethereal]

3 minutes ago, Xenosone said:

When i need to take alot of damage for a certain accolade slotting a heal in rest and taking a knee in front of a council rocket robot really gets that moving along. The heal enh is sometimes the difference between not enough regen and just right

 

Fair.