Dune (2021)

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Little bit of news for all y'all..

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/Legendary/status/1453058884516466691?s=20

 

So yeah, y'all good.

 

Oh, and the opening US weekend racked up a healthy $41m domestic. Way behind Shang-Chi, Venom II, F9, or Black Widow, but in the same ballpark as Quiet Place Part II and Jungle Cruise. Also another $7.5m from its UK opening weekend.

 

On those numbers would expect a full run - assuming it's got the legs - to go $130m to $160m domestic, and $400m and change worldwide.

Using my maths from earlier: $165m budget x 3 = $495m notional breakeven.

So: absolutely not a flop, not quite up to the watermark. But given the streaming revenues and the rerelease potential alongside Part 2...

...and that it's doing these numbers in a pandemic...

"Boffo", as they say.

No idea why they say that but they do.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by ThaOGDreamWeaver
Extra Momoa

[battlewraith]

Money isn't an issue. This arguably superior version had a much lower budget:

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

BTW, for those who've been living on an isolated rock hiding from sandworms and are wondering what Dune is about...

 

[Shred Monkey]

Somehow I missed the fact that this movie was a part 1 of (2?) until midway through the movie when I realized there's no way they're finishing this in the time that's left.   After the movie I went to look up when Part 2 was coming, and ... OMG it's not even greenlit!  That means it's 3 years out at least...and maybe not coming!  Now I'm angry because this was really well done.

[GraspingVileTerror]

Check out the spoiler in  @ThaOGDreamWeaver's post at https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/32135-dune-2021/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-409879 , @Shred Monkey.

[Olly]

15 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Somehow I missed the fact that this movie was a part 1 of (2?) until midway through the movie when I realized there's no way they're finishing this in the time that's left.   After the movie I went to look up when Part 2 was coming, and ... OMG it's not even greenlit!  That means it's 3 years out at least...and maybe not coming!  Now I'm angry because this was really well done.

 

Some good news: https://www.polygon.com/22739982/dune-2-release-date-announcement

[Haijinx]

Well that's good news.

 

This will be a bit like Lord of the Rings I suppose.  

 

A decent adaption of the book that gets the visuals and main themes down very well, but much of the in depth stuff from the books just gets a quick nod.  

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Here we go with the hype train for Dune Part 2, adding Flo Pugh and a near-unrecognisable Austin Butler…

 

 

[honoroit]

the new ones are good. do you think he slept with his mother? 

 

the architecture, reused and cyclic. bene geserit likes in the fremen. legends are seeded, then fill in with time to form tradition, politic, and religion. miracles manifested, sure as grown.

 

dune did a good job of showing such, and vielneuve's has been exceptional so far, kupo.

 

 

 

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Here we go with the hype train for Dune Part 2, adding Flo Pugh and a near-unrecognisable Austin Butler…

 

 

Haven't seen the first half yet, but other than a gender change for one character, I doubt there are many surprises.  I read the book and saw both earlier interpretations.  Hopefully will get caught up this week, though I've some other priorities first.

 

I'm guessing Flo is playing Irulan Corrino?  If so, that's an incredible character.  Julie Cox, though slight of form, did a good job portraying Irulan as a force of will, through the 3 TV shows of two decades past.

 

I'm not recognizing the very white-skinned person, though.  That's not Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen is it?  If it's not him, I'm guessing someone from one of the guilds? I can't think of which one, though.  The Face Changers come to mind, but they first appeared in book 2 or 3. 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Austin is indeed Feyd-Rautha - it’s certainly a different and more unsettling look than a mad-eyed Sting in his underpants.

 

And yes, Flo is Irulan. From what she’s up to and how she’s been described in PR, it seems like they’re fast-winding her character to have more agency, looking into the conspiracy her father set in motion against the Atreides, and some of the “historical narrator” role from later books.

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Austin is indeed Feyd-Rautha - it’s certainly a different and more unsettling look than a mad-eyed Sting in his underpants.

 

Feyd was one of the few details of the SyFy channel's version that I was genuinely disappointed in. (I chose to overlook the obvious limitations of their budget.) That version of the character was practically a puppy, and for some bizarre reason fought with a 2-hook shepherd's staff.  Sting was better in the role. Their Baron Harkonnen (Ian McNeice), though, was much more on target to the book than the disease-ridden, stereotypical mustache-twirling villain the 1984 movie had.  I think it is all the new interpretations that I look forward to, just like I would if another Hamlet premiered.  I'm probably most curious about Gurney Hallick.  Sir Patrick's take on the character is very much affixed in my memory.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Very different Gurneys, playing off each actor’s natural screen presence. Stewart is intelligent, challenging, darting and probing in attacks: Brolin is taciturn, laconic, brooding, unleashing savage strikes in an intelligent manner. They also play up Gurney’s spiritual side more.

 

BTW, being a soundtrack fan, I Am Much Disappoint that the Atreides battle bagpipe anthem is not available as a proper recording, because when you hear that, you are instantly in the mood to skewer a few Sassenachs and cry FREEDOOOOOM!

 

…which is another reason not to watch this on a plane, aside from a director who truly understands the breadth, sweep and beauty of the desert in full widescreen, and the contrast with the rugged lands of Caladan. See it on the biggest damn screen you can find.

Edited May 8, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Techwright]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:31 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Very different Gurneys, playing off each actor’s natural screen presence. Stewart is intelligent, challenging, darting and probing in attacks: Brolin is taciturn, laconic, brooding, unleashing savage strikes in an intelligent manner. They also play up Gurney’s spiritual side more.

 

BTW, being a soundtrack fan, I Am Much Disappoint that the Atreides battle bagpipe anthem is not available as a proper recording, because when you hear that, you are instantly in the mood to skewer a few Sassenachs and cry FREEDOOOOOM!

 

…which is another reason not to watch this on a plane, aside from a director who truly understands the breadth, sweep and beauty of the desert in full widescreen, and the contrast with the rugged lands of Caladan. See it on the biggest damn screen you can find.

 

Hmm... my region is blessed with many great Highland games, and one of the better-sized ones, Gallabrae, happens the last weekend this month. It's reasonably close, too.  I'd not be a bit surprised to see the pipe bands playing this at some point.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

21 hours ago, Techwright said:

It's reasonably close, too.  I'd not be a bit surprised to see the pipe bands playing this at some point.

Slightly off topic: how many times have you heard them playing or sneaking in Test Drive now?

No more Scottish than that accursed Mull of Kintyre, and yet... yer heart still swells, laddie.

[Techwright]

On 5/10/2023 at 3:35 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Slightly off topic: how many times have you heard them playing or sneaking in Test Drive now?

No more Scottish than that accursed Mull of Kintyre, and yet... yer heart still swells, laddie.

 

Actually, I think I have heard it, though never in parade ground performances.  I think I've heard it in bits by those informal groups that hang around the clan society tents after they've competed.  

Mull of Kintyre, now, yes, I hear that from the troubadours at least once every games.

[Techwright]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:47 PM, Techwright said:

 I think it is all the new interpretations that I look forward to, just like I would if another Hamlet premiered.  I'm probably most curious about Gurney Hallick.  Sir Patrick's take on the character is very much affixed in my memory.

 

Popping back into this thread to say I finally had enough time-out (thanks to a summer flu...ugh) to watch Dune Part One, and I really loved it.  Not to say that it was perfect.  I'm still scratching my head over why Liet Kynes was portrayed as a female.  The switch didn't bring anything to the role, that I can see, and Frank Herbert was portraying a society that had largely (but not universally) slipped back into patriarchical ways.  I will say that Sharon Duncan-Brewster did an excellent job in the role. 

 

Likes:

 

1. Ornithopters - fantastic job of making these as believable as helicopters.  I found myself constantly wanting to ride in one.

2. Jason Momoa did a surprisingly good job at Duncan Idaho.  If they continue making movies might we see the ...references...to him again?

3. Josh Brolin owned the role of Gurney Hallick.  As much as I liked Sir Patrick Stewart in the 1984 version, I think this one is better.

4. Light-colored, thin clothing over the still suits.  Finally!  Someone gets it.  Black rubber in the desert is a big no-no, whether it houses a water still or not. That said, I found various scenes curious where Fremen were moving around without their masks on.

5. Oscar Isaacs proved a wonderful Duke Leto.

6. Before watching, I'd not heard who was playing Baron Harkkonen.  When I heard Stellan's voice I was in shock.  I genuinely expected a more portly actor to be cast.  Still, it proved a great choice.

7. Dr. Yueh - I read the first 3 novels nearly 40 years ago.  I do not remember a description of Dr. Yueh's treatment methods, but watching him check pressure points with his own hands, reminded me of how the Mentats came to be.  If it wasn't in the books, it certainly felt organic to them.

8. Scale - budget definitely helps.  Everything seems vastly bigger than the first two interpretations of the book.

 

Dislikes:

1. Mentat appearance - it's too clean  The stain on the lips is from the juice they drink.  It shouldn't look like a clean-edged tatoo.  I can't recall from the books, but wasn't the wild-haired eyebrows part of it as well?  The eyes rolled back while computing is a weird bit.  I'm not sure if I like it or not.

2. Shadout Mapes was barely used - she had a larger role in the book, and even in the early productions.

3. Piter de Vries' death was barely seen.  It doesn't appear to be given the weight of the book and previous productions.  Losing a Mentat was a costly and potentially devastating thing for a great house.

4.  Saudaker fall too easily.  For the greatest warriors (known) in the galaxy, they fall too easily.   I'm not really all that happy with battles as well that show standard swordplay but mark the shields in red for a slow kill.

 

There were other interpretive choices and additions to the work that I scratched my head over, but nothing lore-shaking, at least that I can think of.  Overall, I think my comparison different interpretations of Hamlet was spot on.  This is yet another for Dune, and a very good one so far.

 

Looking forward to Dune Part Two.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:01 AM, Techwright said:

Ornithopters - fantastic job of making these as believable as helicopters.  I found myself constantly wanting to ride in one.

On a side note: the way these were presented - along with the whole harvester rescue sequence - made Leto a more convincing pilot and frontline leader than the Lynch version, and Paul a brighter, braver and more promising (if accident-prone) young buck.  

 

There's an XBox Flight Simulator tour with designer Patrice Vermette where you can get a closer look at the rig (though you may want to mute the other two talking heads, who are... deeply irritating.)

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

 

Second trailer is up. More beautiful shots, Zendaya being extra fierce, and...

Spoiler

...Paul being deeply uncomfortable with his "destiny" or role as the prophet, as is Chani - Paul may be a solid guy in person, but he's still another coloniser. 

We don't really see any of Paul's proper post-trance superpowers. I'm not sure if they're entirely dropping some of the weird(ing) ones to give this a slightly less ethereal feel. 

 

Plus we get a tiny bit more Flo as the Princess, and Christopher Walken as her mean ol' man. In fact, in the spoiler below, I found an extended clip of him. Pretty good.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Techwright]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:06 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

Second trailer is up. More beautiful shots, Zendaya being extra fierce, and...  (adding to the hidden contents)

  Hide contents

...Paul being deeply uncomfortable with his "destiny" or role as the prophet, as is Chani - Paul may be a solid guy in person, but he's still another coloniser. 

I don't think Paul is worried about being a colonizer. After all, every human is descended from colonizers in these tales.  I think what he's expressing is what is in the books: that he is locked into his destiny.  He has no free will, and the more he imbibes on spice the more he sees free will as his illusion and the forecasting as his reality. The gaining of power for Paul is the loss of free will. This apparent clash of free will and destiny is a major plot point revisited in detail as the future story of Dune unfolds in the books. 

We don't really see any of Paul's proper post-trance superpowers. I'm not sure if they're entirely dropping some of the weird(ing) ones to give this a slightly less ethereal feel. 

I truly hope they don't remove a thing from Paul's abilities as defined by the original books.  That said, the 1984 version added to them, as I recall.  In the books, Paul didn't make it rain by a thought.  Water came to Arrakis because Paul coordinated the effort. It's been 39 years since I read the books though.  The 2000 version removed his weirding ways, which it should not have done.

Plus we get a tiny bit more Flo as the Princess, and Christopher Walken as her mean ol' man. In fact, in the spoiler below, I found an extended clip of him. Pretty good.  Walken is definitely a surprise choice in my book.  I'd have looked in many other corners of Hollywood before I'd have thought of him.  I know he's capable of drama, The Deer Hunter proved that long ago, but most of what I've seen him in for some time has been lighter fare.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Walken: elegantly ruthless since... well, forever.

 

[Frostbiter]

Dune: Part II is out on Max now.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Good stuff. And, yes, Dune II was a very beautiful and satisfying movie, with the possible exception of...

Spoiler

• Feyd-Rautha / Austin Butler got a lot of buildup and one hell of a visual styling (apparently the whole Giedi Prime sequence was shot on an HD infrared camera to get that exact washed-out effect). But really not that much impact on-screen - certainly not compared to Brolin gutting Dave Bautista.
• Zendaya doing Much Emoting when she got switched out for Flo Pugh. Big moment that didn't hit.

 

[Techwright]

Finally got the chance to watch Dune, Part II and though I liked what I saw, it would be in context of if it was an original work.  Pardon me if I'm mistaken, it' has, after all, been 40 years this year that I read Dune, but did Part II change significant portions of the book?  Overall, it did move the story, the framework, to where it needed to go, but I felt like there were major changes at least in these areas:

 

Spoiler

Feyd-Rautha - covering a lot more story about him than I recall, especially implying that he took the Gom Jabar test and was close to being the superman that the Order had sought.  I don't recall him ever being that far advanced, just very cunning and ruthless.

 

Chani's whole non-believer struggle.  I don't recall any of that.  Not that I recall her easily embracing the pseudo-doctrine, more like she had a neutral "que sera, sera" attitude, gradually warming to complete trust in Paul. 

 

For that matter, I don't recall there being a schism in the Fremen: believers and unbelievers.  I do recall there being a reluctance to accept Paul, and the need to manipulate the population further.

 

The Saudakar being punching bags for the Fremen and the best-trained Atreides.  The book heavily emphasized the Saudakar before the book events were the best of the best warriors in the known galaxy.  Even the Fremen, upon first clashing with them, commented "they fought well", despite ultimately annihilating them.  In the movies, they took down Duncan, but only after he dispatched over a dozen of them, and they're fight with the Fremen in Part II made them look like tissue paper.

 

Alia remaining unborn.  I thought she'd been born by the end of the book.

 

Chani being surprised by the wedding status.  I thought there'd been a discussion privately with Paul in which he explained the need for a political marriage, but that he considered her concubine status to be his real marriage.

 

Irulan being Bene Gesserit.  As ruling household, I thought she was exempt as that would represent a conflict of interests to the other houses and orders. 

 

Irulan being heir presumptive to the throne.  This was made clear in the movie from a comment made by the emperor.  In the books (and in the television adaptation) Irulan was not the first daughter.  I believe she was third or fourth, and the eldest daughter becomes a huge thorn in the Atreides side during the second or third book.

 

"Beast" Rabban dying at the hands of Gurney Hallak, and the Baron dying by Paul's hand.  I thought these two deaths were handled differently in the book.  I know they were in the other adaptations.

 

I don't recall Paul sending a letter revealing himself to the Emperor.  I was of the impression that the Emperor was surprised by the revelation once captured.  The significant loss of the spice production was enough to drive the Emperor to Arrakis.

 

I don't recall the other houses resisting Paul after the Emperor's defeat, certainly not past the end of the book.  I do recall that the second book revealed there was an on-going jihad as the Fremen embraced the religion and pushed outward into the galaxy.

 

I don't recall Paul having options on the prophecy path.  That was a major point in Dune: Messiah, that Paul's visions were locking him into a rigid path: he could see, but not change.  It was not until Leto II, that the family gained the ability to make the future flexible.

 

The whole "Jamis will guide" sub-plot: I don't recall that at all. What I recall is that Jamis was important story-wise for securing a place for Paul among the Fremen, and for showing his heart to them, as he freely cries (sheds moisture) over Jamis upon killing him.  Jamis also served as reader-introduction to the funeral rites and water reclamation.  But I don't recall Paul having ongoing vision of Jamis.

 

I noticed seemingly other changes as well, but of a more minor nature.  Again, though it made a big impact, I've not read the book in 40 years, so my memory may have dimmed.

 

That aside, the worm-riding inauguration was spectacular, they did a far better job showing how the Fremen undermined spice production than previous interpretations did, and showing the brutality of the Harkkonen, though I believe much of it was creative license, and not in the books.  The final fight was sufficient, if a tad underwhelming (considering what was exploding, you'd expect there to be a much greater distance between the Wall and the central base and equipment), though the sheer number of forces portrayed on both sides was great.  The music was fantastic, as usual with Zimmer.

 

Overall, I found it a fine work, though I still look for a day when a big budget film can get the book right in all details.  Meantime, onward to Dune 3, which I presume will be Dune: Messiah.

[Oubliette_Red]

11 hours ago, Techwright said:

Finally got the chance to watch Dune, Part II and though I liked what I saw, it would be in context of if it was an original work.  Pardon me if I'm mistaken, it' has, after all, been 40 years this year that I read Dune, but did Part II change significant portions of the book?  Overall, it did move the story, the framework, to where it needed to go, but I felt like there were major changes at least in these areas:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Feyd-Rautha - covering a lot more story about him than I recall, especially implying that he took the Gom Jabar test and was close to being the superman that the Order had sought.  I don't recall him ever being that far advanced, just very cunning and ruthless.

 

Chani's whole non-believer struggle.  I don't recall any of that.  Not that I recall her easily embracing the pseudo-doctrine, more like she had a neutral "que sera, sera" attitude, gradually warming to complete trust in Paul. 

 

For that matter, I don't recall there being a schism in the Fremen: believers and unbelievers.  I do recall there being a reluctance to accept Paul, and the need to manipulate the population further.

 

The Saudakar being punching bags for the Fremen and the best-trained Atreides.  The book heavily emphasized the Saudakar before the book events were the best of the best warriors in the known galaxy.  Even the Fremen, upon first clashing with them, commented "they fought well", despite ultimately annihilating them.  In the movies, they took down Duncan, but only after he dispatched over a dozen of them, and they're fight with the Fremen in Part II made them look like tissue paper.

 

Alia remaining unborn.  I thought she'd been born by the end of the book.

 

Chani being surprised by the wedding status.  I thought there'd been a discussion privately with Paul in which he explained the need for a political marriage, but that he considered her concubine status to be his real marriage.

 

Irulan being Bene Gesserit.  As ruling household, I thought she was exempt as that would represent a conflict of interests to the other houses and orders. 

 

Irulan being heir presumptive to the throne.  This was made clear in the movie from a comment made by the emperor.  In the books (and in the television adaptation) Irulan was not the first daughter.  I believe she was third or fourth, and the eldest daughter becomes a huge thorn in the Atreides side during the second or third book.

 

"Beast" Rabban dying at the hands of Gurney Hallak, and the Baron dying by Paul's hand.  I thought these two deaths were handled differently in the book.  I know they were in the other adaptations.

 

I don't recall Paul sending a letter revealing himself to the Emperor.  I was of the impression that the Emperor was surprised by the revelation once captured.  The significant loss of the spice production was enough to drive the Emperor to Arrakis.

 

I don't recall the other houses resisting Paul after the Emperor's defeat, certainly not past the end of the book.  I do recall that the second book revealed there was an on-going jihad as the Fremen embraced the religion and pushed outward into the galaxy.

 

I don't recall Paul having options on the prophecy path.  That was a major point in Dune: Messiah, that Paul's visions were locking him into a rigid path: he could see, but not change.  It was not until Leto II, that the family gained the ability to make the future flexible.

 

The whole "Jamis will guide" sub-plot: I don't recall that at all. What I recall is that Jamis was important story-wise for securing a place for Paul among the Fremen, and for showing his heart to them, as he freely cries (sheds moisture) over Jamis upon killing him.  Jamis also served as reader-introduction to the funeral rites and water reclamation.  But I don't recall Paul having ongoing vision of Jamis.

 

I noticed seemingly other changes as well, but of a more minor nature.  Again, though it made a big impact, I've not read the book in 40 years, so my memory may have dimmed.

 

That aside, the worm-riding inauguration was spectacular, they did a far better job showing how the Fremen undermined spice production than previous interpretations did, and showing the brutality of the Harkkonen, though I believe much of it was creative license, and not in the books.  The final fight was sufficient, if a tad underwhelming (considering what was exploding, you'd expect there to be a much greater distance between the Wall and the central base and equipment), though the sheer number of forces portrayed on both sides was great.  The music was fantastic, as usual with Zimmer.

 

Overall, I found it a fine work, though I still look for a day when a big budget film can get the book right in all details.  Meantime, onward to Dune 3, which I presume will be Dune: Messiah.

 

Regarding your notes, I recall some of those being similar to yours and others being different, for instance, I'm fairly certain Alia killed the Baron and then went out among the battle and dispatched the wounded of the Emperor's troops.

 

But it seems like a good opportunity to re-read the books. I feel like doing so myself but I'd have to dig through a ton of boxes to find them. Probably easier to see if the library has them. 🙂