The Wheel of Time on Amazon Prime

[Ohsirus]

Anybody else excited and nervous for its debut Friday?

[Cancrusher]

While the books were not my cup of tea, I do hope they cleave closely to the books, for the fans sakes, even though I won't be watching it, myself.  I always hate when one of my favorite book series suffers a bad translation to motion picture or television (which is most of them, unfortunately).

 

Good luck.  I hope it is everything you're hoping for! 

[PeregrineFalcon]

I would love to watch the Wheel of Time series. I even have Amazon Prime.

 

However, I have absolutely no confidence that what they make won't be utter garbage. I'll be waiting a few weeks and then watching reviews.

[GraspingVileTerror]

My spouse has been talking about the book series since we first got together almost 14 years ago.

No matter if the show is good, bad, mediocre, or batshit bonkers; I know I won't hear the end of it.

[PeregrineFalcon]

You should probably just watch it with her, Terror. Then you'll get to hear "In the book they actually did this..." after every single episode.

 

It'll be fun.   😁

[Haijinx]

They will have to change a lot.

 

It will have to be an abridged version even best case.  

 

The series dwarfs the scale of Game of Thrones, although at least its completed to the extent it could be.  So no GOT season 8 analogue.  

 

Simple logistics bother me.  If they do say 1 book per season, thats 14 seasons.  In the unlikely event it doesnt get cancelled by that time, how old are the actual actors going to be by then?  

 

The entire series is supposed to take place in the span of about 2 years for one thing, for another a large number of the characters are supposed to age slowly due to their ability to channel.  

 

The Aes Sedai are supposed to look ageless due to a combination of that longevity and their use of the oath rod.  But judging how they are depicted in the trailers, this aspect is being ignored.

 

There are already some significant changes in the trailers.  Rand seems to be shorter than Perrin for example.  The Two Rivers becomes 1 town.   Rand and Egwene have a physical relationship.   All of these have plot implications.  

 

Im looking forward to watching it, ive reread the series in the time since I heard it was coming out.   

 

But I think it will be impossible to replicate the books.  At least they arent trying to cram it into a movie series.  

 

Some tv series end up being better than the books.  The Expanse comes to mind.  I dont think this one will though.  But hopefully its at leaat worth watching. 

 

 

[GraspingVileTerror]

So, spouse started off annoyed and angry at all the changes, but by the end of episode 3 things were moving along in such a way as to get us invested.  Not completely hooked, but willing to continue through the season.

 

Meanwhile, we watched the first episode of the new live action Cowboy Bebop, and . . . well . . . 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/32648-cowboy-bebop-2021-live-action/

[Haijinx]

Yeah,

 

Just finished Episode 1.   Is it bad?  No.    

Faithful adaption of the Book?  Also No.  

Better than the Book?  No.     

 

But if you prefer watching a series to reading some 4 million word mega epic of 14 door stopping books.  Then its all right so far.  I've watched a lot worse.  I'll keep watching. 

 

Some of the changes seem to be aimed at making the thing move quicker.  Since telling the same story for the events surrounding Bel Tyne probably could easily have been stretched into 3 episodes.  

 

I'll put some comments in spoilers, though I will still try to be a bit circumspect.  

  Reveal hidden contents

They seemed to make the Characters older.  But then only a couple of years older, 18 vs 20. But they look 5-6 years older at least.  Not sure why that was.  

 

Some changes I am not sure I understand.  Perrin Married?  Why?  Mat's home life?  Ouch.  Confused at Nynaeve's story about the old wisdom.  

 

Some I get.  Like making Egwene Ta'veren.  Since that definitely felt like an oversight on Jordan's part based on later events.  

 

Others I was disappointed in being left out, since it left out some important Drama.  The Fade stalking Rand, Mat and Perrin which when reading Eye of the World again recently was something I really thought was well done, and was important to what happens in Baerlon and with Thom later.  We also don't get Tam's fever story from the Aiel war, which from a plot standpoint seems a weird choice since it foreshadows so much from the first 4 books.   

 

Some stuff I liked so far - 

Best Epic Badass moment so far goes to Daise Congar.  That was pretty awesome. 

 

Padan Fain was well done.

 

Wait Nynaeve hauled off??   

 

 

[Haijinx]

Okay finished the first 3 episodes .. 

 

Its still all right, but it has diverged even more than I expected.  I wonder if they are going to continue through The Eye of the World storyline, or bypass that in some way and move on to the beginning of The Great Hunt.  Which would of course let them move the story faster.  The Eye of the World did have a fair amount of early installment weirdness involved.   

 

One thing that really bothers me I'll put in spoilers.  This one spoils the TV Series and the Book Series, so fair warning. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The darkfriend who is running the Inn.   She discusses breaking the Wheel of Time.  This is not something any of the darkfriends want.  They are motived by earthly rewards.  Wealth, Power, Immortality, etc.   Even the Forsaken don't want this with one notable exception.  Isamael (aka Moridin,  Elan Morin Tedronai) who was a philosopher during the Age of Legends.  But he keeps that one closely wrapped.  He is also the only Forsaken that has had his sense of self so submerged by the Dark One.  Plus he is crazy.  

 

The Dragon briefly feels this way, during his near total corruption into the Shadow on the slopes of Dragon Mount when he nearly destroys himself with Balefire using the Choedan Kal which would have led to the End of the World.  Of course this happens during the end of Book TWELVE.  

 

But the Friends of the Dark don't want this, the Forsaken/Chosen don't want this, even the Trollocs and the Fades don't want this.  Its presumed The Dark One wants this, but also maybe not.  Since the Dark One sort of exists as a foil to tempt Humankind.  Not only do they not want it though.  Very few even know its even possible.  Eternal Triumph of the Dark?  That is an Early Concept.  The actual unraveling of the Pattern?  You the reader don't begin to suspect it until the middle of the series. 

 

Why would some random Darkfriend in some Inn in a random town want this?  

 

It makes me question how much the TV screenwriters understand the source material.  I'm hardly some WOT scholar and it bothers me.  There are evidently all sorts of parallels to mythology and religions and so on that Jordan has tied into the under narrative that I barely even have read about.  But to reveal one of the big existential concepts of the entire book series like this seems .. dumb.  

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Haijinx

[GraspingVileTerror]

My spouse and I came to the conclusion that some of these changes happened to give viewers insights in to characters' motivations which originally were provided through a narrator or internal dialogue of the characters' thoughts and feelings.  Since the show doesn't want to have an omnivoice, they're instead using cinema shortcuts to say "[insert spoiler thing here] is why Perrin tries to be the gentle giant archetype."

 

Although my spouse is still upset that he doesn't have his signature axe.

[Ohsirus]

I'm just watching it as part of a Multiverse of the books.

[Haijinx]

  On 11/21/2021 at 12:36 AM, Ohsirus said:

I'm just watching it as part of a Multiverse of the books.

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Maybe it was just another, simpler age, lol

[Heraclea]

I suspect this is yet another instance where, though it may not be a faithful adaptation, it would have paid to have read them anyways.  This is what saved the Dune adaptation for me, not needing all of that exposition.   I gather that a major part of the premise is that people get reincarnated on schedule, and that one of the young people in the village is some kind of Ersatz Jabberwock whose time has come around and who represents trouble of some kind, which makes them a McGuffin, but the witch isn't sure which one so has to round up everyone within an age spread. 

[Ohsirus]

  On 11/22/2021 at 3:01 AM, Heraclea said:

I suspect this is yet another instance where, though it may not be a faithful adaptation, it would have paid to have read them anyways.  This is what saved the Dune adaptation for me, not needing all of that exposition.   I gather that a major part of the premise is that people get reincarnated on schedule, and that one of the young people in the village is some kind of Ersatz Jabberwock whose time has come around and who represents trouble of some kind, which makes them a McGuffin, but the witch isn't sure which one so has to round up everyone within an age spread. 

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Sigh…multiverse.

[Haijinx]

I figured some of the issues were budget restraints. 

 

But then I read the average cost was 10million per episode!  

 

Really not sure on what yet.  

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Haijinx

[Heraclea]

  On 11/22/2021 at 3:09 AM, Ohsirus said:

Sigh…multiverse.

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I just thought of the phrase Ersatz Jabberwock and had to use it somehow. 

[The_Warpact]

Never read the series, I thought the last episode was the best. I like the thought of a whole world and all the new stuff. 

So coming from a newb, I like it.

I want to know more about that city that was abandoned, although it looks like I will.

[Haijinx]

Listened to Eye of the World at work today .. as a narrative it is so much better than the TV series, at least the first half is.  Of course it took 11 hours just to get to Shadar Logoth (or Episode 3 in this series) 

 

As to the TV series it really looks to me like they are going to continue skipping whole swaths of the Narrative.  To a much greater extent than Game of Thrones did.  

 

So far they skipped Berelain plus Min, Bayle Domon and the Spray.  Rand, Matt and Thom's story in Whitebridge seems to have been moved to some random farm.  Perrin and Egwene meeting Elyas.  Meanwhile they completely changed Logain's story AND how shielding channelers works.     

 

I get the impression they are going to skip Caemlyn and combine that story with Tar Valon somehow.  Which would suggest to me skipping the Second Half of Eye and first bit of The Great Hunt.  The world also feels much more empty than the one in the Books.  Maybe that is a budget decision.  I mean making one city that you have to have throughout the series is cheaper than making two, since you wouldn't then need Caemlyn until much later.  But 10 million per episode .. smdh. 

 

This stuff is painful on a few levels.  First, its cutting out some good parts of the story.  Second, are we just going to get a big character dump in Tar Valon? Min, Elayne, Galad, Gawan, Bayle, Loial. Plus all the Aes Sedi?  

 

[Ohsirus]

I will admit I liked some parts of Episode 4, although the battle scenes looked something out of Youtube LARP video. Here's hoping Episode 5 can continue the upward movement.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Having not read the books (and probably not having the shelf space for them - or dark-iron reinforced shelves for that matter, those are reserved for my Nigella tomes...)

• Liked episode 1 from the warrior mage get-go.
• A wise man once said that "hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good Blaster at your side." Moraine embodies all three, with some healzor skills on the side. Much badassitude. Like her already.
• That sequence also neatly demonstrated how Light magic works and is channelled without having to explain it.
• They're hooking people in with action and drama rather than attempting to pile all the worldbuilding on early. Good choices!
• Less good: Mat's going to annoy the hell out of me, isn't he?

Speaking of which, Mat has already been recast for Season 2 with Donal Finn. Nobody is saying why, which does not sound healthy for Barney Harris' career.  Even if the idea that you're "difficult" enters the Hollywood consciousness without reasons, you're about to rack up a large collection of nametags and hairnets.

Edited December 3, 2021 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[wjrasmussen]

  On 11/16/2021 at 9:15 PM, Cancrusher said:

While the books were not my cup of tea, I do hope they cleave closely to the books, for the fans sakes, even though I won't be watching it, myself.  I always hate when one of my favorite book series suffers a bad translation to motion picture or television (which is most of them, unfortunately).

 

Good luck.  I hope it is everything you're hoping for! 

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Good sentiment.

[Haijinx]

  On 12/3/2021 at 9:59 PM, wjrasmussen said:

Good sentiment.

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yeah they sure didn't cleave closely to the books. 

[Haijinx]

  On 12/3/2021 at 4:18 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

• Less good: Mat's going to annoy the hell out of me, isn't he?

 

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Depends on how much of it they keep and if they change a lot of it. 

 

In the books his story is slow to develop, but by the end he is a wonderful character. 

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XOgKE1QiDZQ/VKDCe0Z5VOI/AAAAAAAAJyo/UaBLeBul2Y0/s1600/Mat%2BCauthon%2B2.jpg

 

He is the scoundrel of the group.  Irreverent, unrepentant, with no respect for any authority.  He is a gambler, carouser, and a reluctant hero.   

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Haijinx

[Haijinx]

Of course who knows?  They have already changed so much way more than I have mentioned. 

 

They have altered Perrin a lot.   He's practically a werewolf in this version.   

[Greycat]

  On 12/1/2021 at 12:57 AM, Haijinx said:

I get the impression they are going to skip Caemlyn and combine that story with Tar Valon somehow.  Which would suggest to me skipping the Second Half of Eye and first bit of The Great Hunt.  The world also feels much more empty than the one in the Books.  Maybe that is a budget decision.  I mean making one city that you have to have throughout the series is cheaper than making two, since you wouldn't then need Caemlyn until much later.  But 10 million per episode .. smdh. 

 

This stuff is painful on a few levels.  First, its cutting out some good parts of the story.  Second, are we just going to get a big character dump in Tar Valon? Min, Elayne, Galad, Gawan, Bayle, Loial. Plus all the Aes Sedi?  

 

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From information on casting and shooting, some of this is getting rearranged. It sounds like Caemlyn is going to be in season 2, for instance. They've got Elayne cast.

 

IIRC, Brandon Sanderson (who picked up and finished the series) basically said "consider it another turning of the wheel." So, similarities, but not word for word. Which is good, because a lot of this would be *really* hard to do on screen and would absolutely kill the series.

 

And yes, looking at other things, there are definite changes for various reasons. They're not doing the "Ageless" look because CGIing that on *every* Aes Sedai would have gotten prohibitively expensive. Even just the "main" characters. I like how they're doing the One Power - and the Taint on the male half of it - but it doesn't show the "elements" of it, or even really a "weave." (Like Aviendha "picking it apart" later, or having them in "knots.")

 

Some of it (like "we don't know which of the five is the dragon!") is purely for TV and audiences not invested in the books yet.  (And some would have been rough to try to make look good on a streaming service... wolves rescuing Perrin, the whole looonnnggg wwaaaalllk to Tar Valon for Mat and Rand - which despite some interesting side adventures would have just slowed the series down for a viewing audience.)

 

Regardless, I never expected this to be a "watch along while reading the book" show. I was curious how they'd adapt it. So far, while I have quibbles here and there, as "another turning of the wheel," as long as they do the characters justice... so far I'm enjoying it.