P2W Vendor: Level 50 Ticket (Cost: 20 Million Influence)

[MHertz]

Taking the idea seriously for a moment: a level 50 ticket would greatly increase the rate at which characters could be created with bulletproof names — that is, never targeted by the culling of idle names. Any cost for this idea would have to offset the cost of filling up server space and taking up name space.

 

Proposal 1: a level 50 ticket will cost you the deletion of two level 50 characters. Deleting a level 50 will produce a token that is emailed to your account; it takes 2 to buy a ticket.

 

Proposal 2: a level 50 ticket will cost 100 million … on all your characters. The more characters you have, the more it costs. If your character doesn’t have 100 mil, you go into the red — you earn nothing, not even through trades or the auction house, until the debt is paid.

[ZacKing]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:54 PM, Wavicle said:

Of course. If people want to PL to 50 and then play that's their choice. It's not what I like to do, and I certainly don't recommend it for new players, but for long time players they should play how they like.

However, asking for a level 50 button is ridiculous and trying to justify that absurdity by claiming the real game is at 50 is also ridiculous.

 

This doesn't make sense unless I'm misunderstanding you.  You're saying it's ok if vet players want to PL to 50 and build out their characters then, but it's not ok to have any kind of unlocked token that gets them a 50?  What's the difference really?  Either they spend a couple of hours farming or a couple of hours running actual content to unlock a token.   Isn't that giving people an option to play how they like?  

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

This doesn't make sense unless I'm misunderstanding you.  You're saying it's ok if vet players want to PL to 50 and build out their characters then, but it's not ok to have any kind of unlocked token that gets them a 50?  What's the difference really?  Either they spend a couple of hours farming or a couple of hours running actual content to unlock a token.   Isn't that giving people an option to play how they like?  

 

If there's really no difference then there's no reason for the token to exist.

[Fira]

I don't really get why anyone here believes changing the cost of such a would-be feature between 1 inf, 10 mil, 50 mil, 500 mil, 2B, would make more or less sense. Too low is token useless, too high is unfair, too middle is pretending economy finds a balance between previous two but there is no economy...

 

If such a feature was to exist it shouldn't be tied to inf at all. It's absolutely irrelevant to both fairness and accessibility which seem to be the two main points here to justify its existence to begin with.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Fira said:

I don't really get why anyone here believes changing the cost of such a would-be feature between 1 inf, 10 mil, 50 mil, 500 mil, 2B, would make more or less sense. Too low is token useless, too high is unfair, too middle is pretending economy finds a balance between previous two but there is no economy...

 

If such a feature was to exist it shouldn't be tied to inf at all. It's absolutely irrelevant to both fairness and accessibility which seem to be the two main points here to justify its existence to begin with.

my suggestions were appeals to absurdity. I don’t think the feature should exist. At all.

[Fira]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

my suggestions were appeals to absurdity. I don’t think the feature should exist. At all.

 

That was a reaction to a bunch of previous posts as well down thread

[ZacKing]

19 hours ago, Wavicle said:

If there's really no difference then there's no reason for the token to exist.

 

that's not what was asked.  you're saying you're ok with people playing how they want, but then say you're not ok with them playing how they want.

[Wavicle]

6 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

that's not what was asked.  you're saying you're ok with people playing how they want, but then say you're not ok with them playing how they want.

 

Not ok with a button that starts you at 50 is not the same as not ok with them playing how they want.

 

It doesn't need to be any EASIER to play the way they want. The way they want to play is quite well supported already.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Wavicle

[MHertz]

7 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

that's not what was asked.  you're saying you're ok with people playing how they want, but then say you're not ok with them playing how they want.

This wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll go on record saying it’s not okay for players to be able to play any way they want.

 

Playing by the rules of the engine? Sure. Adhering to the code of conduct (eg, no spamming, no griefing, etc)? Fine.

 

But that’s not the same as saving “the devs should create mechanisms that enable any behavior that a player asks to do.” What players want isn’t always a good idea, or is disallowed by the game for a reason. I’m sure some players would enjoy being able to disrupt costume contests with a team of Stalkers stabbing everyone in Atlas Park, or steal other people’s influence, or mind-control other PCs, or whatever. In another game these might be possible or even encouraged, but not here. Just because a player wants it isn’t a good reason to make it possible. Nobody is entitled to that.

Edited December 14, 2021 by MHertz

[ZacKing]

20 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Not ok with a button that starts you at 50 is not the same as not ok with them playing how they want.

 

It doesn't need to be any EASIER to play the way they want. The way they want to play is quite well supported already.

 

That's understandable.  and again I don't think this is needed either.  I just don't see the difference between spending time PLing in AE to get a 50 or playing story content for a while to unlock a token.  Having to play normal content at least you know the person is familiar with playing that particular AT.

 

20 hours ago, MHertz said:

This wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll go on record saying it’s not okay for players to be able to play any way they want.

 

Playing by the rules of the engine? Sure. Adhering to the code of conduct (eg, no spamming, no griefing, etc)? Fine.

 

But that’s not the same as saving “the devs should create mechanisms that enable any behavior that a player asks to do.” What players want isn’t always a good idea, or is disallowed by the game for a reason. I’m sure some players would enjoy being able to disrupt costume contests with a team of Stalkers stabbing everyone in Atlas Park, or steal other people’s influence, or mind-control other PCs, or whatever. In another game these might be possible or even encouraged, but not here. Just because a player wants it isn’t a good reason to make it possible. Nobody is entitled to that.

 

Other games have tokens that auto-level a character, so people asking for it here shouldn't come as a surprise.  Also I don't see anyone here saying they're entitled to anything, and what you're trying to use as a comparison to a P2W token is just plain silly.  No ones asking for mechanisms to grief costume contests.  

[MHertz]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Other games have tokens that auto-level a character, so people asking for it here shouldn't come as a surprise. 

Other games have open-world PVP (including, yes, the ability to assassinate people during online weddings).

 

Asking for auto-leveling isn’t a surprise, no. I am not opposed to the idea in principle, as I have said. The cost for doing so should reflect the severity of the real-world consequences of such a policy (eg, potentially 1000 max-level characters tying up names on every server). I already proposed an exchange: delete two existing 50s in exchange for the token to create a 50.

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

 

Also I don't see anyone here saying they're entitled to anything, and what you're trying to use as a comparison to a P2W token is just plain silly.  No ones asking for mechanisms to grief costume contests.

 

No, they haven’t, but that isn’t my point. When someone throws out the freedom argument — that they should be able to play any way they want — I don’t want to commit to that as a design philosophy. They can play any way that they are allowed to.

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, ZacKing said:

I just don't see the difference between spending time PLing in AE to get a 50 or playing story content for a while to unlock a token.  Having to play normal content at least you know the person is familiar with playing that particular AT.

 

Emphasis mine. This hasn't actually been my overall point, but since you raised it...

Having a token would explicitly make an end run around this idea, if you can buy it with tradeable currency then it lets you get a 50 without ever playing THAT character.

[ZacKing]

3 hours ago, MHertz said:

Other games have open-world PVP (including, yes, the ability to assassinate people during online weddings).

 

No one's asking for or advocating for open world PVP, so to keep bringing it up is a little absurd.  Someone unlocking a auto-50 token through normal gameplay is a far cry from people ganking you in open world PVP.

 

3 hours ago, MHertz said:

No, they haven’t, but that isn’t my point. When someone throws out the freedom argument — that they should be able to play any way they want — I don’t want to commit to that as a design philosophy. They can play any way that they are allowed to.

 

I think you're exaggerating here too.  Of course there needs to be limits no arguments there.  Offering certain things that players are accustomed to in other games isn't going to break the game if they were to get added here.  

 

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Having a token would explicitly make an end run around this idea, if you can buy it with tradeable currency then it lets you get a 50 without ever playing THAT character.

 

Not sure I understand you here.  the thought was, let's say I play a RAD/RAD corruptor through normal game play.  I get it to 50, get a few required badges (TF Commander, story arcs, etc. whatever is deemed necessary) and then I unlock a single level 50 token for another RAD/RAD Corruptor AT.  I'd have to level up every AT this way to unlock a token for those specific ATs/set combos.  Could even make it that the token gets consumed once you use it, so you'd have to level up another 50 in that class and do all the required badges to unlock another token.  It's just a rough idea, but it eliminates farming for inf to just buy the token outright.  it also helps with the complaint that people powerlevel 50s in AE and they don't know how to play it.  These wouldn't be something available to new players either until they completed the required stuff to unlock it.

 

 

 

[Wavicle]

18 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Not sure I understand you here.  the thought was, let's say I play a RAD/RAD corruptor through normal game play.  I get it to 50, get a few required badges (TF Commander, story arcs, etc. whatever is deemed necessary) and then I unlock a single level 50 token for another RAD/RAD Corruptor AT.  I'd have to level up every AT this way to unlock a token for those specific ATs/set combos.  Could even make it that the token gets consumed once you use it, so you'd have to level up another 50 in that class and do all the required badges to unlock another token.  It's just a rough idea, but it eliminates farming for inf to just buy the token outright.  it also helps with the complaint that people powerlevel 50s in AE and they don't know how to play it.  These wouldn't be something available to new players either until they completed the required stuff to unlock it.

 

 

 

 

So let me see if I understand this correctly...

You're suggesting there be a token added to the game that let's you make ANOTHER of a toon you already levelled to 50?

I don't think this would do what the OP is asking at all. This was NEVER what I was arguing against.

[Wavicle]

Looking back at the OP, they were definitely asking to be able to take NEW toons to 50 instantly, not replicating existing ones.

[ZacKing]

15 hours ago, Wavicle said:

So let me see if I understand this correctly...

You're suggesting there be a token added to the game that let's you make ANOTHER of a toon you already levelled to 50?

I don't think this would do what the OP is asking at all. This was NEVER what I was arguing against.

 

Yes that's what the rough idea was.  It's not perfect and it's not an exact clone of the character either.  It's just unlocking a token for a 50 for that AT.   I agreed that just paying inf for a level 50 token isn't a good idea.  some other people made some suggestions that these tokens be something that can be unlocked by play.  if there were to be level 50 tokens, personally I'd rather see them as stuff that gets unlocked.  Having people play to unlock a token for a particular AT or AT/set combo by doing the required tasks you at least know the person has played the character which is a common complaint people have.  People pl in AE and don't know how to play the character.  I know it's not what the OP was asking for.  if you follow the conversation, there were suggestions being made about what might work better.  I think people are getting so set in their ways they can't accept different points of view and just ignore anything that doesn't fit their opinion.  

[Wavicle]

I just think if it requires you to level up the same toon first then there’s no point.

[ZacKing]

24 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I just think if it requires you to level up the same toon first then there’s no point.

 

that's fair.   I don't know about anyone else but  I have a couple of characters that are the same AT and even same AT/set combo.  They're just different variations of theme or just trying something different with a build.  like my scrappers don't really play all that much differently for me.  I was more looking at what would make the idea of an unlockable token better than just flat out paying inf for it.  At least this way, you'll have to earn it by playing first so you know how the AT works and plays.

[Wavicle]

I think maybe if this is what they were offering, duplicate an existing toon, then I might not have any objection.

I'm pretty sure the OP was asking for a way to make NEW toons start at level 50.

[ZacKing]

16 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I'm pretty sure the OP was asking for a way to make NEW toons start at level 50.

 

As I said in my last post I know this isn't what the OP was looking for.  The conversation in the thread evolved into something other than just paying inf for a 50.  

[Brawlin]

All modern MMO's have a way to skip to endgame. I fail to see why it would be a bad thing to let people play the way they want. Leveling my 12th character to 50 doesn't add anything new to my experience. 

[Excraft]

On 12/23/2021 at 1:50 AM, Brawlin said:

All modern MMO's have a way to skip to endgame. I fail to see why it would be a bad thing to let people play the way they want. Leveling my 12th character to 50 doesn't add anything new to my experience. 

 

But but but.... the story!!  You have to experience the story for the umpteenth time because reasons!!   Joking aside, I totally agree.   I've played through on enough characters now that leveling up normally isn't bringing any new experience for me.  The game doesn't have that great of a variety of mission types either.  The names and levels change, the activity remains the same. 

 

I actually like the idea of being able to unlock level 50 tokens through gameplay and badging.  That's a much better idea than just paying inf for it. 

[arcane]

You already can skip to the endgame. It takes approx two hours. What a deal 🙂

[PeregrineFalcon]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:50 PM, Brawlin said:

Leveling my 12th character to 50 doesn't add anything new to my experience. 

Neither does getting that character to level 50 with an instant token.

 

And it does add to your experience if you're playing your character to 50, instead of just door sitting. For example: the experience of leveling a Force Field/Beam Rifle Defender to 50 is absolutely nothing like playing a Dark/Dark Defender. Radically different play styles within the same AT, but you won't know that if you just insta-level them to 50.

[Brawlin]

6 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Radically different play styles within the same AT, but you won't know that if you just insta-level them to 50.

No I'm pretty sure that part is self evident, especially if you wanted to bring the character into challenge AE and SF content. I would think that in a player owned and driven game letting people play how they want would be a #1 priority instead of forcing players into jumping through 20 year old hoops. This game should be more inclusive to all types of players.