Thoughts on the Sentinel (feedback/theorycrafting ahoy)

[aethereal]

6 minutes ago, MHertz said:

Making the Sentinel’s armor even more overkill is not a good design direction. If you have to tune up Sentinel damage (with a single damage primary) to compete with a Blaster (who has damage primary and secondary), you’re not really fixing the design flaw. 

Every damage class besides Blaster does fine with just one of their power-sets being a damage set.  Scrappers and Stalkers are in great shape.  It would be trivially easy to tune Sentinels to do plenty of damage with their primary -- it would be easy, if someone wanted to, to make them do more damage than Blasters with just their primary (obviously, that wouldn't be good design.  I'm just saying that the idea that there's a problem with Sentinels "only" getting one powerset focused on damage is a non-problem).

 

People spend a lot of time trying to make the issue with sentinels way more complex than it actually is.

[MHertz]

What? No, I’m not saying that Sentinels have a problem with only having one damage-oriented set. I’m saying that the anemic damage they do does not justify the amount of self-defense they are designed with. I’m also saying that upping the damage alone won’t solve the problem without also simultaneously breaking Blasters.

 

That’s why I want to run some missions and gather combat log data. Are Sentinels generating enough aggro to justify their armor? If not, then how do we justify it?

[Dona Eis Requiem]

32 minutes ago, MHertz said:

But are they? Sentinels don’t have any way to hold aggro if the Tanker or Brute or Mastermind pets go down.

 

I say "break point" in that they can mitigate being totally overrun vs. taking some heat in retreat. 

Hopefully, if you're going to retreat you won't stop until you reach a point that's safe to do so. By then the mobs peel off and are returning (for the most part). By then, you should have your front line back on their feet ready to grab that aggro. 

But this was back then...Now? I don't know. /e shrug

[aethereal]

26 minutes ago, MHertz said:

What? No, I’m not saying that Sentinels have a problem with only having one damage-oriented set. I’m saying that the anemic damage they do does not justify the amount of self-defense they are designed with. I’m also saying that upping the damage alone won’t solve the problem without also simultaneously breaking Blasters.

 

That’s why I want to run some missions and gather combat log data. Are Sentinels generating enough aggro to justify their armor? If not, then how do we justify it?

Just increase their damage to be competitive with (just a sliver lower than) a Scrapper or Stalker.  Don't give them Blaster-scale nukes.  That's really it, from a balance perspective.  It won't make any AT obsolete, and there is not a highly delicate situation where one false move dooms an AT.  People will play Sentinels, Stalkers, and Scrappers because their superhero concept does or does not demand ranged damage, stealth, or whatever.  None of those ATs will usually be the absolute best choice you could make to fill a role on most teams, but they'll all be fine.

 

(I think there's another another dimension of a sentinel revamps that's about injecting a few more decisions into their play experience.  Just "a blast set that does a lot of damage" plus "an armor set" might be a touch boring to play.  Their current inherent, despite its many flaws, does provide a certain amount of choice that, I think, is welcome.  But probably there are plenty of people who are there for a straightforward play experience, and in any case, that's a different problem than balance or team role.)

[MHertz]

42 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Just increase their damage to be competitive with (just a sliver lower than) a Scrapper or Stalker.  Don't give them Blaster-scale nukes.  That's really it, from a balance perspective. 

If armor for Sentinels is under-utilized because their aggro is too low, as I suspect is the case, you’d potentially end up with an entire archetype where every secondary power was skippable, and you could super-slot for all damage and power pools. Sentinels could team with most any other high-damage AT and they wouldn’t need to even turn armor on. I’d call that a balance issue.

 

If Sentinels are generating insufficient aggro that they are rarely attacked, that’s a balance problem that must be solved. That’s one thing I would want to test for, to see if that is the case. Obviously that’s a worst-case scenario.

 

I will make some Sentinels and try to run with and without armor on teams for comparison.

[aethereal]

3 minutes ago, MHertz said:

If armor for Sentinels is under-utilized because their aggro is too low, as I suspect is the case, you’d potentially end up with an entire archetype where every secondary power was skippable, and you could super-slot for all damage and power pools. Sentinels could team with most any other high-damage AT and they wouldn’t need to even turn armor on. I’d call that a balance issue.

 

This is a fantasy.  My first 50 on HC was a sentinel.  You take damage, in team settings.  It's not like nobody ever shoots at you.

 

Also, the concern that you'll become an offensive powerhouse by slotting your attacks is misplaced -- lots of people in normal builds slot their attacks for lots of damage.  Even if a sentinel did have more slots to play with their offensive potential will be more determined by the basic stats of their powers than anything else.  There will always be scrappers/stalkers/blasters out there who also put 4+ damage procs in their attacks.  If their attacks/inherents do more damage than yours does, base, then they'll also do more damage when both of you are devoting all six slots to optimal damage.

 

We don't know what the AT modifier is for threat for a Sentinel.  It's possible it should be tuned up!  It's also possible that it's just fine, and the fact that sentinels don't attract a ton of aggro is because their damage is too low.  But if threat does need to be tuned up for Sentinels, it doesn't need to be tuned up a lot.

 

But also, in at least most content in the game, teaming up with a good tank or debuff defender or controller means that there's very little threat to go around.  This problem that you perceive of OMG this character doesn't generate enough threat for their armor values, I assure you that Stalkers and Scrappers experience it as well.  The main reason I used to go haring off from the group as my old Ice/Bio stalker was that I didn't need to use my defensive clickies.  On my DB/Ninj scrap, when I just duoed, not 8 person group, I would forget to watch my endurance bar, detoggle myself, retoggle myself, and keep going.  The game limps on.

 

I'm getting repetitive (or maybe I'm long past "getting"), so this'll be my last post on this topic, but, look:

 

At least 80% of the problem with sentinels is that their damage is about 25%-35% too low.  If people want to come up with some clever, complicated way to increase their damage by about 25%, okay, cool.  But it doesn't need to be clever and complicated.  You could just increase their damage scalar, maybe give build-up instead of aim, maybe do some fairly straightforward damage-increasing inherent.  The important thing is that you increase their damage by 25-35%, and figure out whether it's 25% or 35% or what.

 

If you then want to also do something where you create some unique team role, sure, cool!  But that won't work without increasing their damage, because the main problem with sentinels is just that their damage is too low.  And they don't really need an elaborate team role, they'll be fine without it.

[MHertz]

I play sentinels too. They don’t draw nearly the same aggro on teams. I’m often the last one standing even when I’m trying to die. So yes, I get that your experience with Sentinels is valid for you, as mine is for me, but why don’t we gather data instead of anecdotes? How much aggro are they taking? If it is proportionately too low, then what consequence does their diminished aggro have on their teammates’ viability? If a Sentinel could do 95% of blaster damage but the Blaster is taking 80% of the aggro, could we agree that’s an imbalance, given that Sents have arnor? At what level would we say things are fair?

 

If the developers are going to do a pass on Sentinels, I don’t want to throw a damage buff at them and call it a day, especially not if that means we can expect it to be re-nerfed down the line.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MHertz

[Nerva]

Whoof, this thread blew up a bit since the last time I had time to respond to it.  First off, I do appreciate that despite some active back-and-forth, everyone's thus far remained civil.  That's a bit of a relief to me; I really didn't make this thread to stir up a hornet's nest, but to help identify the problems with Sentinel as an AT and put forward some potential solutions and get feedback on those.  A lot of other ideas have come up in the meantime, and I appreciate that.

 

Firstly, @aethereal, I certainly hear you that Sentinel damage seems underwhelming but @MHertz has a point that just a flat damage increase doesn't necessarily solve their problem; or at least, doesn't necessarily solve the problem in a good way.  Some testing to get performance numbers on just how the Sentinel underperforms is actually not a bad thing, and I wouldn't be averse - when I have more free time - to putting together a Sentinel alongside a few others and recording our experiences through the midgame.  Especially if I can get my grubby mitts on a combat log parser somewhere, so that I can offer hard numbers alongside the "feel" of the character.

 

If I can be frank, I don't want to see Sentinel become just a 'ranged scrapper' and increasing its damage damage outright so they're outputting Scrapper numbers pushes them in that direction.  I'd rather see Sentinel leverage its seemingly-underutilized Defense set some way that increases its damage and yet reinforces its identity as being separate and unique from Scrapper as an AT.  This is why I put forward the idea of a offensive stacking-per-enemy buff or debuff toggle operating in long frontal arc or cone; it's a unique twist on an idea used by Tankers and Brutes (and Scrappers, admittedly) to shore up their defenses when operating at ideal damage-dealing range.  Since Sentinel doesn't really need its defenses shorn up thanks to operating at a longer range, these toggles would boost damage-dealing ability instead.

 

Sometimes, a straight increase in damage output is the answer,  Sometimes it's not.  I'm not averse to the idea, I would however like to see some testing done to determine whether it is, indeed, the answer, or if other avenues should be considered.  It's also possible it could just be an answer, but not the best one for the AT's future.  Testing, done right, would discover this.

 

I realize, looking around the boards, that Sentinel is something of a sore topic for some people.  I just want to see the AT thrive and find an identity; there's a potential for something really neat in it, it just needs to find a role in a team setting that it's desired for.  The AT can't tank without taunts, can't directly support teammates without support powers, and doesn't have crowd control, so it's never going to be anything other than a ranged damage dealer.  That said, there's only one pure ranged damage dealer in the game other than Sentinel, and that's Blaster.  Stalker, Scrapper, and to a lesser extent Brute have proved that multiple flavors of melee damage dealer aren't a bad thing, so finding a way for Sentinel to fit into the ranged damage dealer role and yet offer something different from Blaster and the melee DPS classes would only improve CoH as a whole.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Nerva
A few poor word choices, fixed a run-on

[MHertz]

10 hours ago, Nerva said:

Firstly, @aethereal, I certainly hear you that Sentinel damage seems underwhelming but @MHertz has a point that just a flat damage increase doesn't necessarily solve their problem; or at least, doesn't necessarily solve the problem in a good way.  Some testing to get performance numbers on just how the Sentinel underperforms is actually not a bad thing…

 

Sometimes, a straight increase in damage output is the answer,  Sometimes it's not.  I'm not averse to the idea, I would however like to see some testing done to determine whether it is, indeed, the answer, or if other avenues should be considered. 

Well said.

 

I should clarify that I am not opposed to raising damage output by Sentinels. The question is how this should be done.

 

Tankers were given a buff to the radius of their AOEs and to the max number of targets. That is a way to buff total damage while, at the same time, encouraging a play style — use AOEs when surrounded by a whole bunch of enemies. Blasters were given a damage buff that enabled them to continue using Tier 1 and 2 blast powers during mezzes. Slapping an across-the-board damage increase onto Sentinels seems unlikely, in this light, especially If it doesn’t (as I suspect it won’t) solve the problem of the under-utilized secondary set.

 

In short, figure out what Sentinels are supposed to be doing, and give them a damage buff when they do it.

 

In my proposed Bodyguard scenario, you could give a damage bonus to the Sentinel that reflects how much aggro they’re peeling away from an ally. Or maybe a damage bonus based on that ally’s health bar. Or both.

 

If I understand it correctly, in your proposed stacking debuff scenario, the Sentinel would be gaining the same damage bonus as everyone else (through -Def and -Res on the enemy), but only if he attacked. I suppose in theory you could just hang out and face the fight without engaging and passively indirectly buff your team — probably not a gameplay style you want to encourage. It would also not increase Sentinel damage relative to others on the team.

 

P.S. I could write a combat log parser for this purpose in Python.

Edited December 15, 2021 by MHertz

[MHertz]

I just wrote a basic combat log parser in Python that will track incoming damage (and % hit) along with outgoing damage (and % hit).

 

I'm going to try to run control tests in teams of two as follows:

blaster-controller

blaster-defender

blaster-scrapper

blaster-tanker

controller-defender

controller-scrapper

controller-tanker

defender-scrapper

defender-tanker

scrapper-tanker

sentinel-sentinel (in theory, each should get about 50% of the incoming threat)

 

Then I will run tests pairing like this:

blaster-sentinel

controller-sentinel

defender-sentinel

scrapper-sentinel

tanker-sentinel

 

This should tell me a little bit about how each of the blue-side ATs attracts aggro in comparison with the Sentinel. Yes, a more thorough analysis would involve every AT in combination, like Brutes and Dominators; and it would include multiple powersets for each one, to smooth out results due to secondary effects (like Slow and KB). This is a start.

 

[Gobbledigook]

You could shorten their range even more to say 15'-20' or so. This way they would be like a skirmisher on the edge of the group with increased danger due to being closer. Between Scrappers/stalkers and Blasters/defenders etc, hopefully stopping anything heading towards the backline. The damage and even number of targets could be increased, thus increasing their threat.

 

Turn opportunity into some sort of temporary buff that can be activated when needed. Perhaps a team wide absorb, but i would not want to step on the supports role. Or even better, a team wide ability reset like Burnout. That could come in handy in many ways and possibly make them really wanted in teams. The Burnout effect could temporarily debuff the Sentinel in someway, maybe a damage debuff for 10 seconds like rage or endurance debuff.

 

If we needed more taunts/threat then just bring an extra Brute/Tanker or even some Scrappers.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Gobbledegook

[Wavicle]

I do like the idea in the OP.

 

IMO Sentinels ought to be roughly equivalent to Scrappers, with the difference being the Sentinel provides an Opportunity for the team while the Scrapper gets Crits. 

 

That design is fine in principle, it's just that Sentinels damage is tuned too low and Opportunity is, yes, "too fiddly".


My suggestions are:

 

Increase base damage from .95 to 1.0 (perhaps removing inherent debuffs to compensate, but not necessarily)

Change Aim to Build Up (increase Dual Pistols Swap Ammo buff effects as well)

Make the Opportunity Strikes ATO increase Duration of Opportunity buff if it procs when Opportunity is up

Combine Offensive and Defensive Opportunities into a single Opportunity buff

Have Opportunity be triggered by a separate inherent button that does not draw aggro, and can be activated DURING primary power animations

Edited December 20, 2021 by Wavicle

[macskull]

Raising the Sentinel damage scale is only part of the solution - they'll still have lower target caps and far worse nukes. A bump from scale 0.95 to 1.0 is cool but it needs to come along with something else that makes having a Sentinel desirable from a teaming standpoint. As it stands Opportunity isn't particularly useful except for short durations on single targets (if you happen to have the right power and use it on the right target at the right time). Opportunity should be divorced from power picks and should be available more often to provide a more consistent benefit.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

Raising the Sentinel damage scale is only part of the solution - they'll still have lower target caps and far worse nukes. A bump from scale 0.95 to 1.0 is cool but it needs to come along with something else that makes having a Sentinel desirable from a teaming standpoint. As it stands Opportunity isn't particularly useful except for short durations on single targets (if you happen to have the right power and use it on the right target at the right time). Opportunity should be divorced from power picks and should be available more often to provide a more consistent benefit.

 

Make it a toggle with a 30 second CD that gets reduced by your attacks

[Zeraphia]

This is a topic that I've gone quite in depth on in another discussion but to reiterate some of the things that were said and addressed:

• Sentinel's role was supposed to be akin to a "ranged scrapper" - they'll never deal the AoE damage that blasters do, but should serve as a damaging and contributable member. This is something that can be accomplished but I feel that Sentinels need some sort of access to a taunt power. I think a big proponent to bringing Sentinels into being more viable is to make them able to actually aggro enemies off of squishier members from range and attack them at range (this would be a desirable and good role to have in lower level teams and some AV situations).
• The inherent is... awful. The only worse inherent(s) I can come up with off the top of my head are the VEATs (nothing but slight recovery/regen gain but they make up for this with having great kits that can be designed in many different ways). As macskull put it, it should be divorced from the powers themselves. Further, it's just not up enough to apply to an entire mob. 
• Honestly, Sentinel and Stalker on paper seem to be the closest role/relationship-wise but play differently and even Stalker isn't in the greatest position in team rotations/meta at the moment. Except Stalker has the advantage of just being able to dish out exceptionally high burst damage on demand that Sentinel literally does not. 
• This is a bit of a "liberal" approach to buffing the inherent and making the AT across the board competitive with Scrappers/Stalkers/Blasters: make the inherent a power at the top of your bar, target an enemy, fire off the power, and now all of your hits have a chance (probably about 30-50%) to critical your hits. Also make the bar fill faster. You aren't getting the constant non-demanding crits the Scrapper gets for free, you aren't getting the *guaranteed* crits the Stalkers get for free, but you get this at range and having a decent T9 mini-nuke that those two don't. 
• In their current state, they don't even do enough damage to merit being chosen over Tankers. Sure, Tankers go into melee which does differentiate them, but when you get double to even maybe triple the defenses for the same amount of damage, the ranged advantage starts to evaporate at that point.
• This is sort of an absolutist point, but frankly by the way things are now, Blasters are just better in most situations and can be made durable enough and with skilled precision and evading situations, the high damage gives it a noticeably better spot on teams/general state of the game. because of Sentinel's nature of being a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, I don't think it's reasonable to ask for the AT to be better than the already existing ATs. Because of its nature of mixed range and damage, it probably has to be in a place where the AT is:
  • Not so good at AoE damage that it completely out-classes Blasters being the best at that. 
  • Not so good at ST damage and bursts that it steals the reason to make Scrappers/Stalkers
  • But maybe has a good enough feeling mechanic (like the suggestion or really any big improvement on its current state...) to make it flashy/cool to play, has an aggro stealing role to defend squishies to an extent, keeps its T9 mini-nukes and lack of manipulation secondary to make it never better than Blasters at dishing out damage in general, does high enough consistent damage to feel good and generally doesn't die much, make it an AT that's like "well it's not a specialist AT that's better than Scrapper/Sentinel, but it is very easy to play, and does comparable damage to them over time with some big hits here and there."

Edited December 20, 2021 by Zeraphia

[macskull]

Here's some food for thought:

• Opportunity now has two distinct components - one which functions similarly to its current form (which we'll call the "current" component), and another which provides a wide-radius non-line-of-sight PBAoE buff to teammates (which we'll call the "new" component).
• The damage resistance debuff tied to the T1 and T2 powers goes away.
• Opportunity now works based off two inherent toggles, Offensive Opportunity and Defensive Opportunity. These toggles have no endurance cost and a 30-second recharge time.
• Opportunity gain/loss is reworked similar to the way Fury builds - attacking and being attacked builds the bar, builds faster on teams, decays over time, etc.
• The current component no longer relies on activation of T1 or T2 powers to trigger but rather is set to a value which is determined by the amount of Opportunity the Sentinel has. It wouldn't be 1-for-1 but maybe something in the range of 1/4 to 1/2 - call it 1/3 for now. In other words with a full Opportunity bar I'd have a 33% chance that any of my attacks would trigger the Opportunity bonus.
  • Offensive Opportunity debuffs do not stack from multiple attacks, but they do stack from multiple Sentinels. The duration of the debuff is shortened as well since it is easier to maintain.
  • Defensive Opportunity buffs are unchanged.
• The new component adds in a PBAoE buff that scales with the amount of Opportunity the Sentinel has.
  • Offensive Opportunity provides a small recharge and tohit buff.
  • Defensive Opportunity provides a small defense and resistance buff.

These proposed changes ensure the Sentinel can make more consistent use of Offensive Opportunity while providing support in the form of team buffs. Sentinels already get some support abilities in their epic/patron pools so it isn't a stretch in terms of existing AT design. The different team and self buffs allow the Sentinel to adapt their role in the team on the fly depending on the team's performance. Team not doing so great or a tough fight is coming up? Turn on Defensive Opportunity to give you and your teammates a bit of a survival edge. Trying to clear a pesky AV or two? Turn on Offensive Opportunity to speed up the fight a bit. The overhaul to how the enemy-affecting and self-affecting portions of Opportunity work bring the Sentinels more in line with their vision as "ranged Scrappers" - Sentinels now get criticals but instead of being damage criticals they're debuff criticals or self-buff criticals.

Edited December 20, 2021 by macskull

[Wavicle]

I think you’re over thinking it Mac.

 

they just need to do enough damage to be good enough alongside the other pure damage dealers. They don’t need to be a tank, and they don’t need to be real support.

[Pzn]

18 minutes ago, macskull said:

Opportunity now works based off two inherent toggles, Offensive Opportunity and Defensive Opportunity. These toggles have no endurance cost and a 30-second recharge time.

Definitely my favorite part of your suggestion. I think simplifying the activation of them could really help the feel of how they play.  Being forced to fire off your weakest attacks in order to trigger the effects of the inherent is disruptive to the flow as a damage dealer.  I find myself using strong attacks to finish a sliver of HP to avoid wasting opportunity and saving t1/t2.  Which is counterintuitive to how you would normally use those attacks to fill out chains or finish off enemies.

[BrandX]

Why not make it simpler?

 

Build Opportunity like Fury/Domination is built.  Get attacked and attacking builds Opportunity.

 

When Opportunity has hit 100%, the Sentinel can click on Opportunity (Defensive) or Opportunity (Offensive).  They share a cool down, so it's one or the other.

 

Now as to what these Opportunities are...AOE or Single Target.  Heal?  +DMG?  -Resist?

 

I'd go for PBAOE Heal or Defense All, as both seem like taking some defensive opportunity.  Could make it Self only if wanted as well.

 

-Resist, keeps with the current opportunity and just leave it on the target.  I'd make it worth while.

 

Also, I don't think it would be that bad to put the damage scale up to 1 if it's lower than that.

[BurtHutt]

I enjoy Sents but they are lacking in many ways. I think the AT needs something and many have put out lots of ideas. I'd like to suggest another one.

 

The AT can enhance attacks in a few different ways. So, the player would have the chance to apply a twist to attacks by hitting a toggle. This would be like the bio armor gimmick.

 

Toggle 1: Debuff To-Hit - all attacks have a chance to reduce the targets To-Hit.

 

Toggle 2: Debuff Resistance - again, all attacks have a chance to reduce Resistance.

 

Toggle 3: Slows - yes, all powers slow targets recharge and movement.

 

Toggle 4: END sapper - all powers reduce some END from the target(s)

 

Toggle 5: DAMAGE boost. 

 

Toggle 6: Add toxic damage to all attacks.

 

So, the player would pick 1 toggle and can change them as need be. It'll allow the Sent to be a bit more versatile and have a unique quality as well.

[golstat2003]

18 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I think you’re over thinking it Mac.

 

they just need to do enough damage to be good enough alongside the other pure damage dealers. They don’t need to be a tank, and they don’t need to be real support.

 

Meh I kinda disagree with this. The one thing I will fully agree with is that Opportunity needs a rework. Mac's idea for opportunity is a great one. The current Opportunity I don't pay attention to at all when I play a Sentinel. I find it pointless.

[golstat2003]

11 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

I enjoy Sents but they are lacking in many ways. I think the AT needs something and many have put out lots of ideas. I'd like to suggest another one.

 

The AT can enhance attacks in a few different ways. So, the player would have the chance to apply a twist to attacks by hitting a toggle. This would be like the bio armor gimmick.

 

Toggle 1: Debuff To-Hit - all attacks have a chance to reduce the targets To-Hit.

 

Toggle 2: Debuff Resistance - again, all attacks have a chance to reduce Resistance.

 

Toggle 3: Slows - yes, all powers slow targets recharge and movement.

 

Toggle 4: END sapper - all powers reduce some END from the target(s)

 

Toggle 5: DAMAGE boost. 

 

Toggle 6: Add toxic damage to all attacks.

 

So, the player would pick 1 toggle and can change them as need be. It'll allow the Sent to be a bit more versatile and have a unique quality as well.

 

This would be interesting too. Just ANYTHING other than the current inherent they have.

[Nerva]

Wow, lots more good input since I last posted.

 

Regarding Opportunity, I'm kinda thinking it needs to be kept simple.  An inherent, in typical play for most ATs, is not something you have to think about directly or work towards.  They have activation methods that will simply occur and augment existing powers over the course of ordinary play.  Defiant increases damage as you use powers and lets you continue to use your most basic powers while mezzed.  Rage builds up and increases damage as you give and take hits.  Gauntlet slaps taunts on everything you smack.  Scourge boosts damage on enemies below half health.  Only one AT has an inherent that's even directly activateable, and that's Dominators' Domination.  Even Stalkers' inherent isn't directly activated, although their powersets are designed around utilizing it.  A more complex power needs to be part of their powersets, I think, and needs to be flexible enough to have different but comparable functions based on what powerset is in play.  A lot of people call Opportunity 'fiddly to use' and I think the fact that it has to be manually activated and has multiple modes is a big reason why.

 

You know, as a variant of my original idea, we could move it to the inherent.  A Sentinel's damage - especially in teams - is its biggest weakness.  What's the biggest difference between a team environment and a single environment?  More enemies.

 

So, how about this:

---

Opportunity reflects a Sentinel's careful observation of the battlefield and ability to spot weaknesses in enemy tactics and formations.  For every enemy in a long arc in front of the Sentinel, the Sentinel gains a stacking damage buff as they detect weaknesses in the enemies' teamwork and exploit them.  The first stack of this buff provides the largest bonus, with each subsequent stack providing diminishing returns.

 

Sentinels are also adept at creating opportunities for themselves and allies to strike.  Any enemy hit by three single-target powers (in any combination) of a Sentinel in a row is Vulnerable and inflicted with an unresistable debuff to their regeneration and resistance to all forms of damage.  Continuing to strike a Vulnerable target with single-target abilities extends the effect.  A Sentinel can only force one enemy into Vulnerability at a time; applying the effect to a new target removes it from the first.  Multiple Sentinels working together can stack multiple Vulnerabilities onto a single target.

---

 

This would give the Sentinel a reason to team (they deal more damage in target-rich environments), a reason to have a defense set (surviving splash in target-rich environments), and a value to a team (Vulnerability procs on hard targets like EBs and AVs.)  What do you all think?

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Nerva
Whoops! Forgot a word!

[macskull]

48 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I think you’re over thinking it Mac.

 

they just need to do enough damage to be good enough alongside the other pure damage dealers. They don’t need to be a tank, and they don’t need to be real support.

The rub here comes from the survivability-to-damage relationship. The four melee ATs sort of have this figured out already though there is some muddying of the waters between Scrappers and Stalkers if you aren't factoring in the ATO procs. The powers guy has gone on record as saying Sentinels will not get increased target caps and a damage scale increase to anything more than 1.0 (maybe 1.05 if someone's feeling lucky) is probably off the table as well. They weren't really intended to compete directly with Blasters but that's how it's shaken out. The question then becomes "what is good enough?" and I'm not sure there's a good answer to that question. The mechanics of the game ensure that you'll always be able to bring a Blaster up to Sentinel survivability levels but you'll never be able to bring a Sentinel up to Blaster damage levels.

 

Clearly, just adding more damage isn't the answer. Sentinels have been intentionally kneecapped in too many different ways to be able to compete on an even footing with other damage-centric ATs, so they need to bring something else to the table. Like you said: they don't need to be a tank, and they don't need to be real support, but if they can offer some support ability they'll at least be more desirable as a "damage dealer/force multiplier" than "damage dealer that deals less damage than the other damage-dealing ATs and doesn't bring anything else."

 

41 minutes ago, BrandX said:

When Opportunity has hit 100%, the Sentinel can click on Opportunity (Defensive) or Opportunity (Offensive).  They share a cool down, so it's one or the other.

I'm not a fan of click powers for things like this because it's one more thing the player has to time and juggle with the rest of their powers. Domination is an annoyance as a click power and I'm sure Opportunity would end up the same way.

[Zeraphia]

3 minutes ago, Nerva said:

 

Opportunity reflects a Sentinel's careful observation of the battlefield and ability to spot weaknesses in enemy tactics and formations.  For every enemy in a long arc in front of the Sentinel, the Sentinel gains a stacking damage buff as they detect weaknesses in the enemies' teamwork and exploit them.  The first stack of this buff provides the largest bonus, with each subsequent stack providing diminishing returns.

 

Sentinels are also adept at creating opportunities for themselves and allies to strike.  Any enemy hit by three single-target powers (in any combination) of a Sentinel in a row is Vulnerable and inflicted with an unresistable debuff to their regeneration and resistance to all forms of damage.  Continuing to strike a Vulnerable target with single-target abilities extends the effect.  A Sentinel can only force one enemy into Vulnerability at a time; applying the effect to a new target removes it from the first.  Multiple Sentinels working together can stack multiple Vulnerabilities onto a single target.

---

 

This would give the Sentinel a reason to team (they deal more damage in target-rich environments), a reason to have a defense set (surviving splash in target-rich environments), and a value to a team (Vulnerability procs on hard targets like EBs and AVs.)  What do you all think?

 

The reason this probably would never happen is because of the way resistance and debuffs work. If anyone was there for the time that Tar Patch was a truly unresistable form of -resistance, they'd know why you cannot have this.

The simple reason is this: there are enemies that are meant to have invulnerability phases such as Reichsman (apologies if I spelled that wrong) in his T9 "god mode." If you applied Tar Patch or what would be this Sentinel's debuff, his resistance would completely flatline. True -resistance flat values are not really something that can be implemented without a lot of overhaul.