I heart Sentinels

[Judicator]

So apparently I love Sentinels. I re-rolled my old AR/devices as a AR/SR Sent hit 50 and all Alpha'd up.  I've played a lot of different toons...far more than I'd like to admit but I find myself falling in love with a 2nd Sentinel! This time I'm running a EB/Rad Silver Surfer homage called the Golden Sentinel. I'm having a blast with him and he is downright nasty. I've been really impressed with the AT and it it is fitting right in that sweet spot for the "heavy blaster" concepts like Iron Man and Captain Marvel for me. L O V I N G ...I T!

[SmalltalkJava]

Yeah. Sentinels are pretty cool.  I like their opportunity mechanic and they are perfect for Iron Man / War Machine concepts

[Six-Six]

I hear ya. Sentinels are my favourite AT. I've been reading about how they're underpowered being a cross between a tank and blaster/scrapper/brute. But I personally like how well rounded they are--and honestly how underpowered they are. I'm not the kind of guy that goes for the strongest build. Quite the opposite. I really enjoy the handicap. I suppose it goes with the story or immersive part of being a hero.

 

I tried playing around with other ATs, and found it a little too hard to suspend my disbelief. Yes, they have powers, some godlike powers, but I feel they're powers define them more than the person they are (Ironman man vs suit). Some of the toons I tried were fun (or funny), but they felt like they were trying too hard to be a hero for the sake of the cape. Sentinels feel real to me and much more believable. (I suppose this is incredibly subjective to my personal game play style, though). It reminds of the Saitama's conversation with King. Being a hero isn't about being the strongest or getting satisfaction out of fighting, it's about one's unwavering ideals of justice, fighting to save others, and most of all having the courage to do what must be done (even when you're out of your league).

 

ATM, I'm having a blast switching between two toons: a DP/WP (who's basically a guy with a gun trying to play vigilante in a world of super-powered folks) and a Archer/Bio (a mutation with hard skin and a bow and arrow -- reminds of Hawkeye in Age of Ultron). They're both too weak to take on mobs at any given time, and they both don't have enough damage to single shot an enemy, let alone a boss. Both of them are pretty much outclassed everywhere they turn, but that's the part I like. You're a hero, you find ways around your weakness or inadequacies to save the day.

 

 

[CaptTastic]

Another in the Sentinel fan club here. I run an Energy/Invul and he is both incredible fun and incredibly strong, with soft capped types defences, hard capped S/L resist, and perma hasten.

 

Yes, we lose damage to blasters but we gain survivability. Yes, we lose damage to scrappers and brutes but we gain in versatility. And don’t let anyone tell you we don’t have damage as I’ve solo’d AV’s on mine without any -regen, and I’m not tickling them.

 

Plus, we get access to knockout blow in Patron Pool too, which immediately increases the awesome factor of any toon ten-fold. True story.

[Fedifensor]

Soloing Calvin Scott (something that my controller and mastermind couldn't do) tells me this is not a weak archetype.

[Generator]

I've come partway around on them, after being a little dismissive of them at first.  I have an Elec/Elec Sentinel I've been playing a lot recently, but I'm not going to forsake my Blaster over the Sentinel.  They're different animals.

[drbuzzard]

As uncommon as Sentinels appear to be at the high levels, it seems to me there's a misplaced perception about their effectiveness. I have two at 50, and they are plenty effective. In theory, yes, a blaster does more damage. In practice, however, I find that a blaster has to be so much more careful (or can die a lot) about aggro that a sentinel can keep up in dishing it out.

[Rathulfr]

I also heart Sentinels. I have two: Energy/WP and Fire/Regen, both just hit 50.  Now the hard work begins: earning enough merits and Inf for IO sets!  ;D

 

[Obitus]

I'm a fan of Sentinels too, but I think there's a bit of a disconnect on this issue.

 

On the one hand, the Sentinel is an extremely appealing AT for the average player - a ranged generalist with good defenses and solid damage potential.  If you want a smooth trip from 1-50, solo or teamed, the Sentinel is an excellent option.  A Scrapper/Brute might do a little better, as well as a handful of specific powerset combos in other ATs, but Sentinels are certainly near the top of the heap, here.

 

On the other hand, once you dig into the numbers, there isn't anything terribly exciting about the Sentinel at the high end.  It's either a Scrapper with weak single-target damage and (very slightly) less durability, or it's a Blaster with weak ST/AoE damage and (very) high defenses. To say that the AT doesn't have a niche is almost an understatement; it's a second or third-tier soloist practically defined by its lack of an obvious role in teams.

 

This latter criticism largely boils down to the design of blast sets generally, and of the Blaster AT specifically.  Blast sets have never had particularly good single-target damage (again, at the high end), even at the highest AT damage scalars.  (Back on the live-server version of the Rikti Pylon thread, some Tankers managed to out-DPS Fire Blasters.  Blasters typically need help from melee attacks to be competitive in that space, and even then their numbers are usually nothing special.) 

 

Even after the recent buffs to Blasters, they remain under-compensated for their ranged-damage crown; there's little room to make a Sentinel-like AT without stepping on the Blaster's toes. 

 

So Sentinels ended up with the same damage scalar as Dominators (0.95), which is pretty damn good - ~15.5% less than Blasters' (@ 1.125) - but they also got a significant penalty on the range of their attacks, and a massive cut to the target caps on their AoE powers.  The reduced target caps especially hurt, as the main practical benefit of Sentinels' extra tankiness, at the IO'd high end, is to fight huge spawns of enemies.  In that sort of scenario, it's easy to believe that Sentinels only manage ~60% of a Blaster's damage, possibly even less.

 

And on top of that, Sentinel power sets appear to suffer an unusual number of bugs/errors - and/or they're just poorly understood by players - which is understandable given that it's the newest AT, but this state of affairs makes the AT's inherent pros/cons difficult to pin down.  Where Sentinel powersets are duplicates of other ATs', the Sentinel versions seem to have an unusual number of differences, not all of them obvious, intuitive, or well quantified.

 

Sometimes those inconsistencies go in the Sentinel's favor.  For example, AFAIK, the Sentinel version of Sonic Blast is the only one with the improved version of Screech - a much-needed buff to the set in the wake of the snipe changes.  Sometimes the inconsistencies go against the Sentinel; for example, the Sentinel version of Fire Blast has a buggy and inferior analogue for the Blaster's fast snipe.  (Weird that the Sentinel, which doesn't need damage mitigation tools as much as Blasters do, would get a repel on this power.)

 

This isn't, by any stretch, a bad AT.  It shines in the leveling process, and at the top end it can be built to feel plenty OP.  Perhaps more to the point, it needs IOs less than certain other ATs to feel powerful.  But I can also understand why many people would be disappointed by the AT's lack of a niche at the high end.  For the moment, I'd have to say the Sentinel is clearly weaker than the Dominator and Scrapper/Brute for pure solo strength, and clearly lacks in teams compared to Blasters and (obviously) Doms/Corruptors/Defenders.  After Blasters and Corrs grab Clarion and IO set bonuses, it's even hard to argue that the Sentinel is a better soloist.

[Sunsette]

+1 Obitus.

 

That's pretty much my issue with it.

 

As a solo AT, it's significantly inferior to Brutes and Scrappers -- and Brutes serve a strong group function.

As a team AT, it literally provides less to the team than any other AT. No support, no threat, mediocre controls, meh healing, and the HP and scale difference with scrappers is enough that we're more subject to a string of bad luck.

 

One of these two should change.

[Fedifensor]

I think the opinion that Sentinels are underpowered is overblown.

 

Yes, they have lower damage than Blasters - by necessity.  Blasters need the higher damage, because they're glass cannons.  That said, it's not like we're Defenders or Tankers - I team with both, and my damage output is a good bit higher, before taking Offensive Opportunities into account.  Plus, we debuff defense and resistance on the targets hit, giving the entire team a benefit when everyone is focusing on an Elite Boss or Archvillain.

 

Sometimes the inconsistencies go against the Sentinel; for example, the Sentinel version of Fire Blast has a buggy and inferior analogue for the Blaster's fast snipe.  (Weird that the Sentinel, which doesn't need damage mitigation tools as much as Blasters do, would get a repel on this power.)

Blazing Blast is my best tool against Malta Sappers.  Knockback + Repel means I will send them flying, and I can finish them off with Blaze and Flares before they can get up.  That's a welcome bit of control for Fire.  A bit more damage would be nice, but I'm not expecting it to do just as much damage as Blaze, given the added effects.

 

As a solo AT, it's significantly inferior to Brutes and Scrappers -- and Brutes serve a strong group function.

As a team AT, it literally provides less to the team than any other AT. No support, no threat, mediocre controls, meh healing, and the HP and scale difference with scrappers is enough that we're more subject to a string of bad luck.

Solo, I can easily take on foes Blasters have a tough time defeating.  I've sat in packs of even-level foes with my health steady, to the point where i could have walked away for a minute and been fine.  We have slightly lower numbers than Scrappers, but both archetypes have a 75% resistance cap, and even blasters can hit the softcap for Defense with the right powers and slotting.

 

Teaming up, I am a reliable source of damage, that doesn't have to be watched over by the Brute or Tanker.  I can draw a good bit of aggro without getting into trouble.  Not as much of concern on a good team...but not every team is a good team.  When the tanker gets distracted in the middle of a fight, or the blaster pulls a Leeroy Jenkins, I can handle it, and have saved the team more than once in such situations by nuking and pulling aggro to give the rest of the team time to recover.  Yes, a Scrapper can do this too...but I can do it at range, which gives me more flexibility.

 

Is the archetype fully polished?  No.  Some fine-tuning needs to be done.  The Offensive and Defensive Opportunity mechanic restricts builds and hinders options in play.  More than once, I've held off from firing Flares because I didn't want to waste an Offensive Opportunity on a mostly-dead minion.  That's not an efficient mechanic.  The triggered opportunity should grant a benefit to the group instead of just the Sentinel, and it should be clear that is what is happening.

[Sunsette]

I don't dispute your characterization as it pertains to a low to mid level character too much -- though I'll note that personally speaking, my blasters can sometimes do better than a sentinel solo just from the better kill speed -- but at high levels, the frailty of a blaster is overstated.

 

As far as the opportunities, not only do corruptors do more damage than Sentinels, they frequently drop far bigger debuffs while being very survivable. Opportunity isn't nothing, and corruptors are overtuned, but as much as I want to promote the class, I haven't seen a scenario where anyone -- even people really, really familiar with the game's mechanics -- goes "great, we got a sentinel". It's more "we got everything we need, so sentinel is fine".

 

We're not useless but we're not good.

 

The scale difference is relevant btw because it means Sentinels are still locked into taking a lot of defensive choices in pools in order to soft cap. If I could at least have freedom to take things I want to take instead of struggling to make caps just to feel barely more survivable in most things at 50 than a blaster, I'd be more sanguine about the class.

[Heraclea]

I am enjoying mine, and levelled her to 31 this evening.  I don't expect heroics from her DPS; certainly not being able to one-shot a red lieutenant and surrounding minions like my blaster can.  This may be because I am used to playing tankers, whose DPS is not awful, but is rather slow and steady, because if you are a tanker you have time.  The blaster doesn't have time. 

 

The sentinel has time.  My Water/WP sentinel has enough basic defenses to survive what the mobs throw at her, especially when she has them distracted with Whirlpool.  Her defenses aren't actually that great, but she has a quick recharging self heal in her attacks, and the ability to keep mobs at bay rather than letting them gang up on her.  I need to replace Whirlpool power button with a macro that casts it at a targeted mob.  This is going to require a refresher course. 

[Pureshadow]

i fully io'd a ice/bio and water/bio.  they seem to be just average.

 

you dont have the 16 cap for aoes.  thats 60% damage there.

you don't have ATO procs like scrapper and stalker.  the ato proc is trash.  its just give you offensive damage which is just a few damage procs on single target moves.

so its like hey you got alot of aoes, but your passive only affects a single target.  your single target damage is meh. even as ice the extra damage it is meh.

most secondaries are nerfed. fiery embrace is replaced with a small dot heal which doesnt make sense when its got a big heal.

nuke damage is nerfed, ranged is nerfed. auras taken out of secondaries.  only 2 good patrons.

 

thats my experience.  i feel like they stripped too much out and gave no benefits.

[CaptTastic]

I think that what a lot of people miss about Sentinels is that they fill a playstyle hole in the game. Boil it down to just being all about DPS then, yes, you’re always going to see no benefit to playing a Sentinel over a blaster or scrapper.

 

For me personally though, I hate playing melee toons in teams. I massively prefer ranged toons but get very frustrated sometimes by the squishyness of them. So, for me personally, having a robust ranged toon really opens up a different avenue to enjoy that I just didn’t have open to me before. Yeah, there are trade-offs, but there are with anything.

 

Want the survivability of a tank? Don’t expect damage.

Want damage of a scrapper? Don’t expect range

Want the ranged damage of a blaster? Don’t expect survivability

 

And so on...

[KaizenSoze]

I agree with CaptTastic.

 

The sweet spot for Sentinels for me has been the smooth power curve from 1 to 26 so far.

 

Most of alts go like this. After reading some glowing build description on this forum.

1-15 Easy enough

15-20 Start to notice the lack of status protection or squishy-ness in melee because of under slotted powers

20-30 My damage/defense sucks and I cannot get the right IOs. Actively avoid mobs that mezz with squishy heroes

30+ Alt-itish kicks in because the slow grind due to enhancement costs. Realize that the char will only be god like once I get to 50 and have god like IOs sets

 

Too many builds, that are god like at 50 with IO sets, are very painful to level until then. This is common problem in MMORPGs.

 

My Fire/Rad Sentinel has been very different. In my 20s I am satisfied with my powers, damage, and defense. I actually seek out Tsoo and Lost because of my mezz defenses. I look forward gaining new powers that will change my play style, but happy with my current powers. I can pump out damage at a steady pace in groups and have been one of the few survivors in bad pulls while still actively fighting instead of running. It is possible that I do comparable damage to others over the course of the whole mission because I am always firing and rarely worrying about health. Very hard to prove. Also, I will pull mobs off the other squishies because I know I can take the hits.

 

In the end, my hero will not be as powerful as a full slotted level 50 god build, but I am enjoying the journey a lot more.

 

Unless the Sentinel powers get some kind of serious boost of course. Then I will have the best of both worlds.

 

[Rathulfr]

I need to replace Whirlpool power button with a macro that casts it at a targeted mob.  This is going to require a refresher course.

 

/macro WP "powexec_location target Whirlpool"

 

That's #5 in  my Water/* toons' attack bar.  I put the Whirlpool power in the slot in the bar above it so I can see the countdown timer.

 

/macro RoA "powexec_location target Rain of Arrows"

 

That's for my Archery toons.

 

[Heraclea]

Thanks!

 

[Rathulfr]

I think that what a lot of people miss about Sentinels is that they fill a playstyle hole in the game. Boil it down to just being all about DPS then, yes, you’re always going to see no benefit to playing a Sentinel over a blaster or scrapper.

 

For me personally though, I hate playing melee toons in teams. I massively prefer ranged toons but get very frustrated sometimes by the squishyness of them. So, for me personally, having a robust ranged toon really opens up a different avenue to enjoy that I just didn’t have open to me before. Yeah, there are trade-offs, but there are with anything.

 

Want the survivability of a tank? Don’t expect damage.

Want damage of a scrapper? Don’t expect range

Want the ranged damage of a blaster? Don’t expect survivability

 

And so on...

 

+1 this.  I always prefer ranged DPS to melee.  On live, I primarily played Blasters and Corruptors, but hated the routine face plants.  When I first came home here, I recreated my favorite Blasters and Corruptors.  And then I tried a Sentinel alt, just to see what it was about.

 

The clouds parted, a light shone down out of heaven, and I heard choirs of angels singing.  THIS was what I had wanted to play since that first day back in 2004 when I created my first Energy² Blaster that I then played for 8 years.  THIS was what it felt like to really be a SUPER-hero (even if the math doesn't work).  I. am. a. SENTINEL!

 

So I retconned my main to an Energy/WP Sentinel, and I won't ever go back.  Damage numbers be damned.  I can get in there and fight now, not just shoot and kite.  I can blast and blast and blast and blast and never run out of end.  When the tank goes down -- and they do, occasionally -- I'm standing right beside them, grabbing aggro and taking hits until they get back up.  When the team wipes, I do not go gentle into that good night: I rage, rage against the dying of the light, and often end up being the last man standing.

 

That's my brand of fun.  Don't give me spreadsheets or IO sets or procs or DPA times.  Give me passion and fury and the sense that I'm actually conquering evil.  That's what I want.  That's what I need.  That's why I'm here.

 

[Obitus]

I think the opinion that Sentinels are underpowered is overblown.

 

I would draw a distinction between "underpowered," and without a niche, but I've rambled at great length about that already.  Basic gist is that Sentinels are very easy and fast to get to a good level of performance, but they appear to have a comparatively low ceiling.  This may or may not bother you, depending on your playstyle.  The game doesn't start at level 50 with IOs and Incarnates, after all.

 

One of the draws of City of Heroes is that there really are very few gimpy or underpowered build options.  Just about anything can work, and work very well.  I'm certainly not trying to rain on your parade here; if you're having fun with the Sentinel, then that's all that matters. 

 

Blazing Blast is my best tool against Malta Sappers.  Knockback + Repel means I will send them flying, and I can finish them off with Blaze and Flares before they can get up.  That's a welcome bit of control for Fire.  A bit more damage would be nice, but I'm not expecting it to do just as much damage as Blaze, given the added effects.

 

Well, there are two issues.  The first is that Blazing Blast is genuinely bugged; it doesn't deliver the damage that the tooltip says it does.  From a pure damage perspective, you're better off using Fire Blast.

 

The second issue is more subjective: if the power just had a knockback attached to it, then players could choose to turn the KB into a knockdown via enhancement, but there's nothing you can do about repel.  A lot of people would consider that a disadvantage.

 

Is the archetype fully polished?  No.  Some fine-tuning needs to be done.

 

Agreed, though we are in a bit of an odd place.  Given that the devs work entirely for free, it's hard to argue that anything really needs to be done.  Man, just such a thrill to have the game at all.  And a forum on which to argue over this stuff :D

[Sunsette]

A lot of people talking about this 'smooth leveling experience' with Sentinels, I'm gonna take a wild guess you do Blue or Red sides. Because I prefer Gold Side and the Wards (it's better written) and as painful as that is as a Blaster, it's even worse for the Sentinels I've done, though I haven't tried everyone's favorites of Fire/Bio, Beam/Anything, or Water/Anything (they appear to be the strongest sentinel combos). Frequent, frequent deaths just doing even hunt missions because you cannot kill fast enough and your defenses are too weak to do much worth talking about while you're alive.

 

I had spots (notably in the 30s) where I felt like Sentinel did better than Blaster and Corruptor but not many.

[CaptTastic]

I think that what a lot of people miss about Sentinels is that they fill a playstyle hole in the game. Boil it down to just being all about DPS then, yes, you’re always going to see no benefit to playing a Sentinel over a blaster or scrapper.

 

For me personally though, I hate playing melee toons in teams. I massively prefer ranged toons but get very frustrated sometimes by the squishyness of them. So, for me personally, having a robust ranged toon really opens up a different avenue to enjoy that I just didn’t have open to me before. Yeah, there are trade-offs, but there are with anything.

 

Want the survivability of a tank? Don’t expect damage.

Want damage of a scrapper? Don’t expect range

Want the ranged damage of a blaster? Don’t expect survivability

 

And so on...

 

+1 this.  I always prefer ranged DPS to melee.  On live, I primarily played Blasters and Corruptors, but hated the routine face plants.  When I first came home here, I recreated my favorite Blasters and Corruptors.  And then I tried a Sentinel alt, just to see what it was about.

 

The clouds parted, a light shone down out of heaven, and I heard choirs of angels singing.  THIS was what I had wanted to play since that first day back in 2004 when I created my first Energy² Blaster that I then played for 8 years.  THIS was what it felt like to really be a SUPER-hero (even if the math doesn't work).  I. am. a. SENTINEL!

 

So I retconned my main to an Energy/WP Sentinel, and I won't ever go back.  Damage numbers be damned.  I can get in there and fight now, not just shoot and kite.  I can blast and blast and blast and blast and never run out of end.  When the tank goes down -- and they do, occasionally -- I'm standing right beside them, grabbing aggro and taking hits until they get back up.  When the team wipes, I do not go gentle into that good night: I rage, rage against the dying of the light, and often end up being the last man standing.

 

That's my brand of fun.  Don't give me spreadsheets or IO sets or procs or DPA times.  Give me passion and fury and the sense that I'm actually conquering evil.  That's what I want.  That's what I need.  That's why I'm here.

 

Best post I’ve ever seen on Sentinels.

 

Are they going to be for everyone? No. But what AT is? Plenty people swear by Scrappers but I don’t get it. Loads of people don’t get Stalkers but some absolutely love them.

 

A Sentinel, for me, delivers the most satisfying and enjoyable experience of the game, and that’s the point of playing it - not numbers.

[Sunsette]

I think it's a bit shortsighted to dismiss criticism of the AT as "it's not for everyone" or "numbers" when the fact that we chose the Sentinel and to spend a lot of time on it (virtually all of my posts are advice to other Sentinels on improving their builds, trying to improve my build when I was learning, or analyzing the class) suggests there was something there we particularly wanted to speak to us.

 

I still consider my Sentinel my main, because while I know that Fire/Time/Dark Corruptor build can mechanically represent the role I try to bring to the team far better (and honestly isn't completely off in terms of flavor) there are things that appeal to me about the AT. You have the wrong notion if you think we looked at the class in numbers and said "I don't like it."

 

I didn't even remake any of my live characters or my CO characters. I came here and I said, "I want to be like Firestorm, and Green Lantern, and Iron Man," and jumped straight for Sentinel.

 

But I didn't feel like that, so I went into the numbers to figure out why that is. If I just wanted maximal performance, VEATS, Corruptor, Mastermind, Dominator, and Brute are that away.

[CaptTastic]

That’s not how I meant it though. Some people love Scrappers, but they aren’t really for me. Same with dominators and masterminds. But them just not being for me doesn’t mean they are necessarily weaker or underpowered. Yet with Sentinels the impression I get is that there isn’t a great deal of respect for the AT, which I find a shame.

[marcussmythe]

A lot of people talking about this 'smooth leveling experience' with Sentinels, I'm gonna take a wild guess you do Blue or Red sides. Because I prefer Gold Side and the Wards (it's better written) and as painful as that is as a Blaster, it's even worse for the Sentinels I've done, though I haven't tried everyone's favorites of Fire/Bio, Beam/Anything, or Water/Anything (they appear to be the strongest sentinel combos). Frequent, frequent deaths just doing even hunt missions because you cannot kill fast enough and your defenses are too weak to do much worth talking about while you're alive.

 

I had spots (notably in the 30s) where I felt like Sentinel did better than Blaster and Corruptor but not many.

 

Gold Side Mobs are made of exotic damage types and debuffs.  They were late created and as such designed to take advantage of the vulnerabilities in the defensive powersets - and badly devalue them.  Against the very last groups of villians designed, burst damage, hard control, or crippling debuffs are a better survival strategy than a defense/res powerset/AT, especially one that does less damage in service of that survivability - because goldside mobs (and later on, Dark Astoria groups) by design trivialize defense and res and stack slows and the like.  Better to just kill them quickly.  I noted on gold my tank was almost crippled by things my stalker and blaster simply tore through - the tank could not kill fast enough.