What would be the best soloer from 1-50 blue-red-gold side? Using SOs only.

[pblue]

Masterminds work well solo, even on a budget.

 

A Thugs/Cold Mastermind will get you Defence soft-capped pets even without auras, strong pets and some impressive debuffs.  Robots/Traps gets you there too I think. And of course if you only have SO, Force Field start looking pretty decent again.

[Apparition]

15 minutes ago, pblue said:

Masterminds work well solo, even on a budget.

 

A Thugs/Cold Mastermind will get you Defence soft-capped pets even without auras, strong pets and some impressive debuffs.  Robots/Traps gets you there too I think. And of course if you only have SO, Force Field start looking pretty decent again.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but as Kaizen intends on soloing gold side, I would not recommend a Mastermind either.  Praetorian ambushes completely ignore your pets, and zero in on the Mastermind itself.  Masterminds being the squishiest AT in the game, that can be a death sentence for your MM, depending on the mob and mission setting.  A frequent death sentence at that, considering how much Praetoria likes its ambushes.

[Redletter]

I'd personally say SD/DM tanker.

 

People saying SR are absolutely right, that's probably like, the BEST defense set in the game I think? For tanker? I have no idea, but it's really good. The reason I say SR though is because SR lets you hit defense soft caps, AND resist i think? So you get to dodge AND should you get hit that hit does less damage? Then you get a nice buff to your damage with it too, and then Dark Melee gives your enemies -to hit on top of that? With a self heal, a stamina heal, AND a damage buff that'll stack with your damage buff from SD.

 

Plus, that means you can sport a shield. Shields have so many opportunities to enhance your style. And at the end of the day, S T Y L E is the most important stat you CANT raise by ANY other means in the game.

[Xeres]

Oops, forgot about the SO only part.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Xeres

[Bill Z Bubba]

16 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Wait, what? Do you guys even play the same game that I do?

 

My main is a tank. I also have other tanks, and brutes and scrappers. Most of my characters have either SOs or level 25 IOs (which are slightly weaker than +3 SOs). Tanks do not clear entire groups faster than Scrappers or Brutes. Faster than some Stalkers maybe, but my friend's Elec Sentinel clears spawns faster than my EM tank does.

 

Look, I know that a lot of ado had been made over the tank buffs and how it's unbalanced the game and etc, etc, etc. But the people who don't read the forums probably don't even know that tanks have been buffed. The "legendary tank buff" just really isn't that noticeable, and my tanks are not clearing entire spawns faster than Brutes or Scrappers.

 

I don't think you fully grok the power of high defense and tank level HP and what it means for slotting other powers in the low game. So I just cranked up an SR/DM tank and I'll update this post over the next couple hours as I drink coffee, wake up, and solo street sweep/run radios with this combo using NO amps, double XP and nothing but SOs.

[Parabola]

14 hours ago, Parabola said:

I'd probably go with some kind of brute. Maybe staff/bio for the flexibility and they should work well together.

Thought I'd expand on this a bit. When I'm looking for a soloist I always think melee first. Not that other AT's can't solo well but melee AT's are more naturally geared towards it, particularly if the character isn't supported by IO's. All the melee AT's are well suited to soloing in their own ways but the one that I feel loses the least performance without IO's is the brute. The usual argument about brutes having weak ATO sets gets turned on its head here, I would seriously miss the ATO sets playing a scrapper or stalker in particular, but a brute gets comparatively little from its ATO's.

 

I thought staff/bio could work well for a few reasons. Bio is a very good armour set that offers a mix of defensive, offensive and sustain tools. Every power is useful, including the tier 9, and the heal/absorb/regeneration mix will work pretty well without IO support. The adaptations also add flexibility to the mix, allowing you to react to different enemies as required.

 

Staff isn't rated as an uber set but that is generally in the context of IO builds. Its performance ceiling isn't all that high which limits its popularity. But its base performance on SO's should actually be pretty good. It has three aoes which should be plenty alongside bio's damage aura, and it has a serviceable single target chain. It also provides stacking melee defence and some knockdown to help toughen up bio. And of course it also has forms to add further flexibility.

 

Redraw will probably be the biggest issue with this. Sadly staff does not have a no redraw theme and bio requires regular use of the three click heal/absorb/regen powers. Even so I am seriously thinking of trying it myself. Its been so long since I played an SO only character that it sounds a refreshing change of pace.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, Redletter said:

AND resist i think?

 

The resists are only scaling, don't kick in until at 60% health, and come with Dodge, Agile and Lucky. Can't get Lucky until 18. (So many possible comments....)

[KaizenSoze]

45 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

The resists are only scaling, don't kick in until at 60% health, and come with Dodge, Agile and Lucky. Can't get Lucky until 18. (So many possible comments....)

Yes, resists are scaling for SR... and your signature is evil. 😛

 

[A Cat]

12 hours ago, Apparition said:

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but as Kaizen intends on soloing gold side, I would not recommend a Mastermind either.  Praetorian ambushes completely ignore your pets, and zero in on the Mastermind itself.  Masterminds being the squishiest AT in the game, that can be a death sentence for your MM, depending on the mob and mission setting.  A frequent death sentence at that, considering how much Praetoria likes its ambushes.

Might be able to bypass that by getting stealth. Gold side ambushes can't see through stealth, but they'll still go to your location. 

[Snarky]

I am currently soloing Blue/Red/Gold every contact on a Dark/Invul Brute.  Back on Live I soloed Redside every contact once or twice a year.  When I started I was pretty Broke.  I joined during Good vs Evil, when Redside dropped.  I ran SS/Invul a lot.  There was no inherent fitness.  It was painful lol. When Willpower dropped I switched to that.

 

My current project (now 39) used 95% SOs until after 30.  I did lean heavily on P2W grenades in the lower levels.  Dark does not have a great attack chain when levelled.  At low levels it is missing a lot of teeth. But I did prop it up with Panacea and Miracle and Kismet Accuracy etc.  My suggestion would be Willpower.  Its End Bar will be always full.  It will be "tanky enough" on the settings for standard play.

 

With the current game I would go with an Energy Melee Willpower Brute on SOs.  Set at +0/x1, no AVs the character will be near godmode even with SOs.  

Edited January 11, 2022 by Snarky

[Bill Z Bubba]

Fresh SR/DM Tank. Long story short, it really doesn't matter what you use. SOs at lvl 2 and DBL-XP make this game contemptibly easy. I mean, I could have spent this same two hours just powerleveling an alt to 50 but, honestly, this was more fun. And now I'll delete the character cuz I already have enough DM and SR users.

 

5:45am
Lvl 1: Focused Senses and Shadow Punch.
18.5% Melee Defense, 115 HP, 7.5% DDR
Can't buy SOs yet. Got DBL-XP, Athletic Run but no other P2W junk.

 

Lvl2: Took Smite. Bought SOs. Endred in FF and Sprint. Acc in SP, Smite and Brawl. Heal in Health. Endmod in Stamina. Run in Swift. Jump in Hurdle.
18.5% Melee Defense, 127.9 HP, 7.7% DDR

 

Lvl 3: Added slots to FF and Stamina. Added 1 Def to FF and another endmod to stamina.

Lvl 4: Took Focused Senses. Slotted Endred.
Now 5:56am, 22.39% Melee, 18.5% Ranged, 17.9% DDR, 159.04 HP

Smoke break, coffee brewed, man it's cold up in MA right now. 12f. Brrr.

6:16am

Lvl 5: Added slots to FS (Def) and Smite (Endred.)

lvl 6: Shadow Maul (Acc.)
Went to KR, talked to Detective for Radio.
Replaced Endred with Run in Sprint since I have it bound to G and detoggle it when I hit combat.
Waiting until 7 to update SOs. Melee 21.83%, Range 21.83%, DDR 20.6%, 196.94 HP

Have I ever mentioned how much I hate that I can't click on the tram when the doors are open?

1st mish, Hellions.
6:30am

Lvl 7: Slots added to ShadowMaul (Endred) and Stamina (Endmod.) Woot! Stamina fully slotted!
Bumped all SOs to lvl 10.
Bumped diff to +0/x2. Melee 22.75%, Ranged 22.75%, DDR 21.4%, 221.6 HP
2nd mish, Vahz.

6:40am

Lvl 8: Practiced Brawler with recred. For now, only going to click it IF I get mezzed.
MR 22.57%, DDR 21.72%, 245.55 HP
3rd mish, CoT rescue Ayn Race

7:02am

Lvl 9: More def in both FF and FS.
Bumped to +0/x3, made sure bosses were turned on. Is that on by default? It should be.
MR def at 26.23%, DDR 25.81%, 277.91 HP
4th mish, more Hellions, big map, dinged twice.

7:25am

Lvl 10: Took Dodge

Lvl 11: 1 slot each in FF and FS. WOOT! FF and FS now fully slotted 1endred/3def.
Melee at 36.93%, Range at 28.08%, DDR 34.45%, 344.31 HP
5th Mish, Skullz

7:48am 2 hours in.

Lvl 12.5: Took Evasion and slotted with an Endred. Bumped all SOs to lvl 15.
Melee 38.33%, Range 29.11%, AoE 18.5%. DDR at 38.04%. 381.56 HP
Lowish recharge 180 melee cone, 4 ST attacks with SP, Smite, Brawl and origin power.
ZERO faceplants. ZERO end issues. Still no amps, no P2W attacks, only using insps that drop.
Cakewalk.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm not going to waste your time with "You can do it with anything!"  Some thoughts I have from my personal experience.

 

1.  Start at the very beginning and play something in a style you like playing.  You like melee?  Choose a melee.  You like ranged?  Choose ranged.  Choose a character body type you can stand to look at.  I generally dislike "Male" so usually only use it when it really is necessary for my concept or if I don't have to look at his squingy run all the time.  Spend a lot of time in the costume creator.  A LOT of time.  If there is a power that you don't like the animation of, check to see if there is an alternate animation in the costume creator or just don't take the power.  The upshot is that you are going to be spending a lot of hours playing this, and if you find it tedious, there's no point in it.

 

2.  SOs.  Groovy!  Ask yourself what your motivation is and does this apply to, say, no P2W powers as well?  SO only builds are extremely overpowered at low levels, so you will level like a monster quickly, even solo.  Feel free to raise your difficulty settings as you feel comfortable.  I usually progress something like:  +1/x1, +1/x3, +2/x3, +2/x5, +3/x5, +3/x8, +4/x8 if and only if I feel comfortable I can handle it and I'm having fun.  SO only build will be a lot slower in that progression.  I would play with bosses on but AVs off.  Personally, I auto-upgrade my SOs every level so I'm always running at +3.  That's expensive.  You'll probably want to fund your character from one of your other alts.

 

3.  Endurance is always going to be an issue now.  I suggest against something like War Mace/Dark Armor because you can certainly make that work, but it will suck making it work and you're not in this business to do things that suck.  Look for powers and slotting to cut your endurance needs.  Slot +end red before that second +dam.

 

4.  Although I think this is silly game design, supposedly the balance metric is designed around SOs.  In that case, why not try something that is "traditionally" undertuned?

You'll find that on SOs, a Sentinel (for example) will be much closer to Blaster (for example) play.

 

Have fun storming the castle!

[PeregrineFalcon]

Thanks for taking the time to show me that, Bill. I don't think survival will be the problem though, I think the blue bar will be.

 

Are you telling me that low level SR tanks clear entire missions faster than scrappers do?

 

I've never played SR with SOs below level 20. However, my current MA/SR Scrapper is SO only and has serious end problems. I still think that's going to be the major issue of anything SR that's SO only. High def and HP on a tank won't help that.

 

And you think MA's cold, try AK.

.

Edited January 11, 2022 by PeregrineFalcon
Added a new thought.

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I've never played SR with SOs below level 20. However, my current MA/SR Scrapper is SO only and has serious end problems. I still think that's going to be the major issue of anything SR that's SO only. High def and HP on a tank won't help that.

 

How have you slotted?

[PeregrineFalcon]

26 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

How have you slotted?

I'm at the office so I couldn't tell you, other than the fact that I have an End Redux in every attack and every toggle, plus 3 End Mods in Stamina.

[Bill Z Bubba]

58 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Thanks for taking the time to show me that, Bill. I don't think survival will be the problem though, I think the blue bar will be.

 

Are you telling me that low level SR tanks clear entire missions faster than scrappers do?

 

I've never played SR with SOs below level 20. However, my current MA/SR Scrapper is SO only and has serious end problems. I still think that's going to be the major issue of anything SR that's SO only. High def and HP on a tank won't help that.

 

And you think MA's cold, try AK.

.

 

That's just it though, thanks to SOs at lvl 2, once you 3slot Stamina with EndMod and be sure that everything you use has at least 1 endred in it, there *generally* won't be any end issues.

Offer not valid for my dark/stone tank.

 

No, I am not saying that low level tanks will clear maps faster than scrappers. I am saying that low level tanks have so much mitigation that they will get to crank up the diff more and far earlier than scrappers and brutes and spend far less time running back from the hospital or even between missions because of it.

 

And none of this is to say that things won't change in the 30s but a scrapper and brute running FF, FS, Evasion, Weave and CJ won't even hit the softcap. They stop at 39.2%.

Brutes don't get evasion until 20 and lucky at 28. It's horrifically worse for the scrapper with lucky at 28 and evasion at 35. That's a damn long time with crappy AoE defense.

 

The tank, on the other hand, doesn't even need weave. It has all 6 SR powers by level 18. So for my test character above, I can hit 44.46% defense to all positions by level 20 without touching the fighting pool. Edit: Oops, this is with 3slotted CJ.

 

If you really don't think that much extra defense is going to play a huge role in the amount of downtime running a SO only build, I'm not sure what to tell ya.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm at the office so I couldn't tell you, other than the fact that I have an End Redux in every attack and every toggle, plus 3 End Mods in Stamina.

 

Sounds like you should slot more end-red in your attacks.

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm at the office so I couldn't tell you, other than the fact that I have an End Redux in every attack and every toggle, plus 3 End Mods in Stamina.

 

Bill Z Bubba beat me to it, but a second End Mod in your attacks would probably help considerably. And yeah, I know, it can be a hard to find the slots sub-30. Since survival is usually less the issue and so damage does not have to be maxed immediately, I would say getting the second End Redux in an attack is higher priority than the third Damage SO. 

[Without_Pause]

3 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Bill Z Bubba beat me to it, but a second End Mod in your attacks would probably help considerably. And yeah, I know, it can be a hard to find the slots sub-30. Since survival is usually less the issue and so damage does not have to be maxed immediately, I would say getting the second End Redux in an attack is higher priority than the third Damage SO. 

So the added end redux is there and you can skip out on recharge as SR offers recharge by default. Been since live since I ran a SR character, but my default is 1 end redux in attacks and toggles. I don't think end issues were all that noteworthy when I soloed and I have level 25 commons. It was a Kat/sr Scrapper. Again, if you are soloing bigger mobs, that means more inspirs which can be converted to what you need more of.  

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

So the added end redux is there and you can skip out on recharge as SR offers recharge by default. Been since live since I ran a SR character, but my default is 1 end redux in attacks and toggles. I don't think end issues were all that noteworthy when I soloed and I have level 25 commons. It was a Kat/sr Scrapper. Again, if you are soloing bigger mobs, that means more inspirs which can be converted to what you need more of.  

 

I typically find one End Red is sufficient on many of my melee character but depending on primary some are hungrier than others. I do not have any experience with Martial Arts so I cannot say how it is but as example My EM/Shield stalker is definitely more on the endurance hungry side of things even if he is not the most endurance hungry build I have ever wrestled with.

 

I tend to look at inspirations as more, "Oh sh#t!" items first and the occasional, "This will take a bit more" items secondarily than things to rely on and thusly build to minimize the need for them. But everyone has their own preferred approach.

[Without_Pause]

SO builds are going to lean on inspirs more, which is why I make a point of it. More so in cases of soloing. I eat those things like the free refilling candy they are.

[PeregrineFalcon]

28 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Sounds like you should slot more end-red in your attacks.

Yeah, you're right. 1 End Redux in all attacks and toggles is standard for me, but I guess I'll just have to double up on that since SR is such an end hog. I'm honestly not sure if that'll be enough to fix the endurance troubles of my SR scrapper, maybe I'll find out this weekend. I do know that a single Performance Shifter proc wasn't enough to fix the end issue.

 

So with the end issue addressed that just leaves the claim that Tankers on SOs can clear spawns/missions faster than Brutes and Scrappers because of the damage and AoE buffs. I honestly don't believe that this is even remotely true. Does anyone have any data to the contrary?

[Without_Pause]

The cases I can see it being true is based on mob size and the melee set with a Tank being able to hit more targets. I don't see a StJ Tank clearing faster than a Scrapper considering the size of StJ's AoE. I'll take Scrapper's crits in that case.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yeah, you're right. 1 End Redux in all attacks and toggles is standard for me, but I guess I'll just have to double up on that since SR is such an end hog. I'm honestly not sure if that'll be enough to fix the endurance troubles of my SR scrapper, maybe I'll find out this weekend. I do know that a single Performance Shifter proc wasn't enough to fix the end issue.

 

So with the end issue addressed that just leaves the claim that Tankers on SOs can clear spawns/missions faster than Brutes and Scrappers because of the damage and AoE buffs. I honestly don't believe that this is even remotely true. Does anyone have any data to the contrary?

 

PF, you've stated TWICE now and attributed to me something that I have not stated and that isn't true. You should quit that.

 

What I *HAVE* stated is that on the ride to 50 using nothing but SOs, the brute and scrappers lower HP and inability to even get TO the softcap is going to be a hindrance and must be taken into account. I haven't mentioned larger AoEs and Max Targets besides noting that Shadow Maul is 180º. Were tanks on SOs vastly slower back on live? Yes, they were, They also didn't have SR or DBL-XP or SOs at level 2 or the higher melee damage mod that they get now.

 

As for SR being an end hog, it's not. Its toggles are very standard at .26 end/sec, it only has 3 of them and you don't even have to click practiced brawler until you're mezzed if you don't want to.

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Yeah, you're right. 1 End Redux in all attacks and toggles is standard for me, but I guess I'll just have to double up on that since SR is such an end hog. I'm honestly not sure if that'll be enough to fix the endurance troubles of my SR scrapper, maybe I'll find out this weekend. I do know that a single Performance Shifter proc wasn't enough to fix the end issue.

 

That seems a little weird. I levelled up an SR/TW Tanker on actual SOs (primarily to challenge notions about Tanker using SR being squishy) and TW is far, Far, FAR from being modest in consuming endurance. Half his attack powers are double slotted for End Redux though.

 

2 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

So with the end issue addressed that just leaves the claim that Tankers on SOs can clear spawns/missions faster than Brutes and Scrappers because of the damage and AoE buffs. I honestly don't believe that this is even remotely true. Does anyone have any data to the contrary?

 

I have trouble seeing how the area buffs mean much when you're playing solo and everything is coming to you anyway short of herding, and in that case all the other melee ATs are not going to spend time herding but will just mow through spawn after spawn as they occur.