Access to Powers At All Levels After Acquisition

[Mark]

6 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

That lots of people want to rush to level cap and ignore the content between creating a character and incarnate trials doesn't make that a good bar by which to judge other changes.

How do you feel about P2W powers and popping medium inspirations having the exact same damage cap as if your powers were available in places like DFB and Posi 1+2?

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[SwitchFade]

Hard no vote, sorry.

[Yomo Kimyata]

No thank you.

[Mark]

Fully aware it's a lost cause, even the GMs are ignoring facts and systems already in place that make the exact same damage output possible. Thanks everyone

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[srmalloy]

29 minutes ago, Mark said:

How do you feel about P2W powers and popping medium inspirations having the exact same damage cap as if your powers were available in places like DFB and Posi 1+2?

You made your original suggestion because you believe that you would find it fun. That's your prerogative. Most of the respondents are expressing their dislike for the concept, suggesting that it would compound problems already being seen in game. That's their prerogative, too. And you keep throwing the same rebuttal to their objections -- that the P2W powers make up for the powers lost by exemping, so there's no reason not to keep the powers instead of losing them. Yes, we get it; repetition does not make an argument stronger. And your argument misses the aspect that having the P2W powers covering for missing powers still doesn't make the character as powerful as having the missing powers back plus the P2W powers.

 

For example, running Posi 1, characters are limited to the powers gained by level 20. Most powersets' sustain powers come much later; in Posi 1 End management is an issue -- characters who took Hasten by 20 just run out of End faster. But if they have the sustain power they got at 35, suddenly that's not a problem; it changes the tempo of the low- and mid-level game. We're already seeing power creep affecting play; there's no need to strap RATO bottles to it and get it past Mach 1.

[kelika2]

You already have access to your slots and probably bonuses to applicable level even without said power available.

[Mark]

25 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

You made your original suggestion because you believe that you would find it fun. That's your prerogative. Most of the respondents are expressing their dislike for the concept, suggesting that it would compound problems already being seen in game. That's their prerogative, too. And you keep throwing the same rebuttal to their objections -- that the P2W powers make up for the powers lost by exemping, so there's no reason not to keep the powers instead of losing them. Yes, we get it; repetition does not make an argument stronger. And your argument misses the aspect that having the P2W powers covering for missing powers still doesn't make the character as powerful as having the missing powers back plus the P2W powers.

 

For example, running Posi 1, characters are limited to the powers gained by level 20. Most powersets' sustain powers come much later; in Posi 1 End management is an issue -- characters who took Hasten by 20 just run out of End faster. But if they have the sustain power they got at 35, suddenly that's not a problem; it changes the tempo of the low- and mid-level game. We're already seeing power creep affecting play; there's no need to strap RATO bottles to it and get it past Mach 1.

To change the tempo of the low and mid level game, all you have to do is pop a medium inspiration or two to hit the damage cap. It's the same damage with different animations. Inferno and whatever powers you are thinking will make everything worse than AE AFKing will do maybe 15 damage to DFB mobs. I think people are not taking into account the damage scaling when they consider having access to powers. There still won't be any one-shotting of bosses going on and mobs will still hurt. All powers have cooldowns.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[srmalloy]

Just now, Mark said:

To change the tempo of the low and mid level game, all you have to do is pop a medium inspiration or two to hit the damage cap.

And this is something new that was introduced in Homecoming, as opposed to being something built into the game -- and accounted for in game balancing by the original developers -- from Live? You keep harping on this one thing as if it's new and unprecedented, instead of having been part of the game from release.

[Mark]

17 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

And this is something new that was introduced in Homecoming, as opposed to being something built into the game -- and accounted for in game balancing by the original developers -- from Live? You keep harping on this one thing as if it's new and unprecedented, instead of having been part of the game from release.

I'm saying if that has been possible the whole time, there's no argument vs it being too powerful. For my mental health, I give up. Thank you for aiding my revision of what it means to think critically. Take care, stay safe

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[Omega Force]

P2W powers are immune to damage inspirations, aren't they?  That's why you can use Sands of Mu during a Rage crash without penalty.

[The_Warpact]

I'd rather have TFs/SFs adjust to level. You want to run a Posi 2 on your 50? Fine its enemies spawn at whatever your level is and what your diff is set at. 

[SeraphimKensai]

This would just create a disparity between the haves and the have nots. I build my toons to be absolutely gods. Now if I exempt down to a posi 1, I keep all my powers and any set bonuses to that level? I'm going to say no to this.

 

That said I'm all for giving each low level tf and sf a challenge mode setting where it ramps up the mobs to be a challenge for lvl 50s and then let characters that are  lvl 50 do those with all their powers.

[krj12]

No, giving access to all powers would make the problem worse - everyone would be OP from level 1 and the race to mission completion would be even more prevalent.

So, I vote no.

[Mark]

1 hour ago, Omega Force said:

 

 

1 hour ago, krj12 said:

No, giving access to all powers would make the problem worse - everyone would be OP from level 1 and the race to mission completion would be even more prevalent.

So, I vote no.

The level 32 powers that you think are OP will do maybe 10-15 damage to DFB mobs and appropriate damage to Posi+. It's the same thing as placing P2W powers where yours would be and popping an inspiration for the exact damage. All damage is automatically capped. It will not have the same effectiveness as Level 35+. The same output is already possible with the use of P2W and inspirations. The same thing is already happening except it uses different animations.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark
included Omega Force by mistake in the reply

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, Mark said:

all you have to do is pop a medium inspiration or two to hit the damage cap.

 

No-one's hitting the damage cap on any archetype with "a medium inspiration or two".  You're not strengthening your argument with that kind of statement.

[Mark]

36 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

No-one's hitting the damage cap on any archetype with "a medium inspiration or two".  You're not strengthening your argument with that kind of statement.

Two medium damage inspirations will cap your damage in DFB, depending on the archetype. You are welcome to go test it.

 

edit: My mistake, it took 3 mediums, so maybe a large and one medium to hit the damage cap, depending on the archetype.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[Rudra]

DfB is a level 1-3 mission. You also seem focused on damage output. When you're 50, you have a lot more powers than just damage dealing ones. You have access to debuffs, buffs, resists, and defenses as well, all of which are beyond the scale of the progressively lower level content. A level 50 /dark corruptor with Dark Servant, Petrifying Gaze, Fearsome Stare, and Shadow Fall (Edit: plus likely Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, etc.) doing low-level content would basically be immune to threat. Then you still have the P2W powers plus your T8 and T9 attacks plus your epics. And all of those (except for the P2W) are fully slotted per your build design with enhancements and you still have all those inspirations to further boost them.

 

As opposed to content level +5 worth of powers plus P2W powers plus enhancements and inspirations. It's not the same thing is what we are trying to tell you. It is a question of layers of powers: offensive, defensive, and support.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Rudra

[Mark]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

DfB is a level 1-3 mission. You also seem focused on damage output. When you're 50, you have a lot more powers than just damage dealing ones. You have access to debuffs, buffs, resists, and defenses as well, all of which are beyond the scale of the progressively lower level content. A level 50 /dark corruptor with Dark Servant, Petrifying Gaze, Fearsome Stare, and Shadow Fall (Edit: plus likely Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, etc.) doing low-level content would basically be immune to threat. Then you still have the P2W powers plus your T8 and T9 attacks plus your epics. And all of those (except for the P2W) are fully slotted per your build design with enhancements and you still have all those inspirations to further boost them.

 

As opposed to content level +5 worth of powers plus P2W powers plus enhancements and inspirations. It's not the same thing is what we are trying to tell you. It is a question of layers of powers: offensive, defensive, and support.

A Controller or Dominator with recharge slotted in Jolting Chain can permanently lockdown and knockdown entire groups of mobs in DFB already, making them immune to any threat. Having fear and all that will be no more OP than that.

 

I have Jolting Chain on a 3 second cooldown here. That's DIB, but it's the same power in DFB.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

A Controller or Dominator with recharge slotted in Jolting Chain can permanently lockdown and knockdown entire groups of mobs in DFB already, making them immune to any threat. Having fear and all that will be no more OP than that.

Except that is a level 6 power and is locked out by DfB.

[Mark]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Except that is a level 6 power and is locked out by DfB.

Except it's not? I can use it in DFB on my Electric Controller. You can use powers up to level 10 in DFB as you progress.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[Rudra]

Yep, in the last part or the part just before it, you are free to use some higher level powers. When you start? You are 1st level with 1st level powers. Then next stage? You can fight at level 2 or 3 with those powers! Yay! By the time you can use level 6 powers, the team has already progressed to the point where the added powers don't really change the content by an overwhelming amount, you are basically done with the trial. Like how the flashback system is currently set up.

[Mark]

31 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yep, in the last part or the part just before it, you are free to use some higher level powers. When you start? You are 1st level with 1st level powers. Then next stage? You can fight at level 2 or 3 with those powers! Yay! By the time you can use level 6 powers, the team has already progressed to the point where the added powers don't really change the content by an overwhelming amount, you are basically done with the trial. Like how the flashback system is currently set up.

It's available after the first boss. Also, a Storm Controller using Gale slotted with knockdown and recharge can permanently lockdown and knockdown whole groups of mobs from the start of DFB. A Kinetic using Repel slotted with knockdown and reduced cost can permanently lockdown and knockdown whole groups of mobs in DFB.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mark

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

Fully aware it's a lost cause, even the GMs are ignoring facts and systems already in place that make the exact same damage output possible. Thanks everyone

If the fact that everyone isn't immediately jumping behind your ideal vision of the game, with even the GMs completely denying that your idea has merit, why are you still here arguing about conditions that seem to be intolerable to you, instead of downloading a copy of the code and setting up your own server where you can make all the changes you want to the game mechanics and play exactly the game you want? You keep saying that it's a lost cause, but you keep coming back, responding to objections with the same "Let me tell you the same thing again and again until you see that I'm right" argument.

 

I would suggest that this thread be closed; I don't think that it's going to produce anything useful if it continues. But that would be up to the GMs.

[Mark]

2 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

If the fact that everyone isn't immediately jumping behind your ideal vision of the game, with even the GMs completely denying that your idea has merit, why are you still here arguing about conditions that seem to be intolerable to you, instead of downloading a copy of the code and setting up your own server where you can make all the changes you want to the game mechanics and play exactly the game you want? You keep saying that it's a lost cause, but you keep coming back, responding to objections with the same "Let me tell you the same thing again and again until you see that I'm right" argument.

 

I would suggest that this thread be closed; I don't think that it's going to produce anything useful if it continues. But that would be up to the GMs.

Last Word badge earned

[Rudra]

*sigh* *face palm*