Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown

[kelika2]

Add a Smashing damage proc to it in addition changing knockback to knockdown.

[PeregrineFalcon]

[Rudra]

Why? Not enough damage procs already available for you?

Edited March 9, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to remove last lines which incorrectly referenced the universal damage set.

[SwitchFade]

Why?

[kelika2]

40 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Why?

Add incentive for naysayers to consider putting it in their attacks

And stop people from using the word tax.  And the smashing damage keeps in theme as falling on your ass causes smashing damage.

 

57 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Why? Not enough damage procs already available for you?

The universal set is more advanced as it still adds damage.  Still worthy of being Unique

[BrandX]

I don't think it needs a Damage Proc, but it might be nice to get damage added to it, like the Overwhelming Force one, so the set can actually reach full damage on the attack slotted into.

[MTeague]

If you want knockDOWN to cause smashing damage "as theme" you shoudl also strongly support actual KnockBACK which sends you flying, to cause *even more* smashing damage.

 

unless of course, your motivation 100% begins and ends with your first reason: 

8 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Add incentive for naysayers to consider putting it in their attacks

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by MTeague

[Rudra]

I am disinclined to agree with the need for the Sudden Acceleration proc to also do damage. The only difference I see between Sudden Acceleration and Overwhelming Force is that since Overwhelming Force can be slotted into powers that do not already do knockback, it adds the chance for knockdown. As for Sudden Acceleration not doing damage? It gives  .5% less boost to damage than Overwhelming Force.

 

Edit: And as a knockback enhancing set as opposed to a damage enhancing set, modifying Sudden Acceleration's individual enhancements for Damage, say by increasing the number of enhancements that have it, to compete with a set that is supposed to be focused on boosting damage, makes no sense to me.

 

Edit again: That said, if they do incorporate more damage boosts effects into the individual enhancements to compete with Overwhelming Force? I really wouldn't care.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Rudra

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

If you want knockDOWN to cause smashing damage "as theme" you shoudl also strongly support actual KnockBACK which sends you flying, to cause *even more* smashing damage.

Most of the kinetic energy is lost from the movement of the NPC

[Rudra]

You would realistically get more damage from inflicting knockback than knockdown. With knockdown, you knock someone on their tail from no real height. With knockback, you potentially send the target slamming into a wall or other obstruction. The sudden stop at the end is what does the damage, just like with a fall. And the type of obstruction hit and how it was hit would compound the harm from the knockback. "Oops! Sorry about that low bulkhead! Would you like me to give you your head back, or would you rather just lie there and bleed?" The game does not incorporate fall damage for knockback which would simulate this, but doing enhanced damage from knockdown makes little sense. The force of the strike (the damage the attack inflicts on its own) knocks the target down. If the attack lifts the target to fall? You would only really add a few more bruises. It's not like the target is being knocked up that high after all. (Have someone stand on your shoulders and fall off you. Unless they land on their head, they won't likely suffer serious injury. Just likely lay there screaming at you for convincing him/her to do something that stupid until the pain subsides enough to get up and get revenge. And having that person fall from that height is higher than you would knock most mobs. Now powers that lift and slam the target into the ground? Yeah, they should do some real damage. And they do. It is already built into the power as the attack's damage.)

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

comic books

just let the devs consider adding a proc to SA:kb2kd

[Rudra]

You can't quote a person and change what they say. The post you are "quoting" does not say comic books anywhere. That is not a quote. If you want to respond with "comic books"? By all means, but do not quote someone and edit their comment to say something they did not.

 

Edit: And the only knockdown damage I see in comics is from the target slamming into something, which does the damage, and then falling back down unconscious. Otherwise, they just get knocked on their butt.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Rudra

[ogged2]

25 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And the only knockdown damage I see in comics is from the target slamming into something, which does the damage, and then falling back down unconscious. Otherwise, they just get knocked on their butt.

So lets spice it up, change the proc to be either (KB2KD) or (KB+1 plus some minor damage), in a 50:50 ratio when it procs.

 

Regarding the original idea, just adding some damage to the proc seems to be overkill given the utility it already has.

 

Edit: I just realized it's functionally "always on", therefore the "when it procs" is stupid and its current effect good enough for me.

Edited March 9, 2022 by ogged2
mechanics

[TheZag]

People feel that they arent getting a damage bonus or a set bonus from slotting KB>KD so they call it a slot tax to make it sound negative.  But it does increase your damage if the enemies dont have to be chased after.  Slot a damage enhancement or slot KB>KD,  it really changes very little in the overall damage of your character.

 

Giving damage proc to KB>KD would mean the actual damage proc in the other knockback set would need something to compensate.  Do we give it KD also?  Or give it proc damage and the chance for +recharge and then give chance for +recharge something too.  And every other damage proc will need something since KB>KD gets damage,  why doesnt every other damage proc get something.

 

So thats a no from me.  The flood of power creep suggestions if we got our foot in the door on this one is too much.

[MHertz]

9 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Add incentive for naysayers to consider putting it in their attacks

How many people do you think actually spend money to get all the IO sets for their toons? Won’t making the IO into a valuable damage proc make it more expensive to buy, and less likely for people to buy it?

 

I get why you would want people to do this (for your convenience) but I don’t see how this would change the behavior of enough people to make a difference.

Edited March 9, 2022 by MHertz

[AerialAssault]

9 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Add incentive for naysayers to consider putting it in their attacks

 

 

Next time someone asks me to slot a KB>KD I'm going to slot some extra knockback in, just to make a point.

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, TheZag said:

People feel that they arent getting a damage bonus or a set bonus from slotting KB>KD so they call it a slot tax to make it sound negative. 

I think all "hybrid" sets have that "half power" feeling, like Synapes Shock only goes up to 50-60% dmg, while still doing endmod

 

2 hours ago, TheZag said:

But it does increase your damage if the enemies dont have to be chased after.

Now we are getting somewhere on the road to healing and self actualization.

 

2 hours ago, TheZag said:

Giving damage proc to KB>KD would mean the actual damage proc in the other knockback set would need something to compensate.  Do we give it KD also?  Or give it proc damage and the chance for +recharge and then give chance for +recharge something too.  And every other damage proc will need something since KB>KD gets damage,  why doesnt every other damage proc get something.

No, I think giving it just raw smashing damage proc is more than enough.

Giving it +dmg like Overwhelming Force: KB2KD would diminish that set as a whole and maybe hurt the SBB economy

[Yomo Kimyata]

13 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Add incentive for naysayers to consider putting it in their attacks

And stop people from using the word tax.  And the smashing damage keeps in theme as falling on your ass causes smashing damage.

 

The universal set is more advanced as it still adds damage.  Still worthy of being Unique

 

Counter-offer:  add a -25% damage modifier for every power that does NOT slot it.

[kelika2]

22 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Counter-offer:  add a -25% damage modifier for every power that does NOT slot it.

That is a good idea actually, taking away just enough knockback magnitude from every power with knockback.

 

Doing this will make use of said knockback sets for people that actually want knockback.  Worked for Perma-hasten

[Yomo Kimyata]

5 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

That is a good idea actually, taking away just enough knockback magnitude from every power with knockback.

 

Doing this will make use of said knockback sets for people that actually want knockback.  Worked for Perma-hasten

 

See, there's more than one way to skin a cat!*

 

* No cats were skinned in the making of this metaphor.

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

See, there's more than one way to skin a cat!*

 

* No cats were skinned in the making of this metaphor.

people spend at least a few hundred million per alt to perma hasten them.  For some folks, theres no other way to go

If ALL knockback powers were reduced to say .30 mag, they would be knockdown by default it would make use of the unused knockback sets also add incentive to add more orange even purple sets to Knockback

Think of the theoretical possibilities of making everyone happy

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Think of the theoretical possibilities of making everyone happy

 

It's been made abundantly clear that most people around here don't want that.

[kelika2]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

It's been made abundantly clear that most people around here don't want that.

Being happy is pretty unpopular.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Being happy is pretty unpopular.

 

I tried it once. Horrible experience.

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I tried it once. Horrible experience.

The worst part for me was not having anything to complain about