Best and Worst Archetypes and Builds for iTrials and the New Challenge Settings

[Doomguide2005]

• The resistance floor is -300% across all ATs and critters to my knowledge.
• The critters resist the resistance debuff just like players.  So if they have 50% resistance vs fire and you hit them with a 26% resistance debuff they will resist the damage by 37%

At least that's my understanding.

[Ironblade]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

I play two different types of Blaster.  1) Fully ranged. These I softcap Ranged defense on and use Ranged sets like Beam Rifle or Electric.  @) Just started a Fire/Fire Blaster.  No defense.  MOAR damage.  I depend on knowledge of the fights and teamwork to stay effective.  The Beam Rifle is the sweet spot of effective and easy for me.  But the Fire, wow, so much damage.  When you can make the Fire work you are seriously helping your team/league.

Fire and Beam Rifle are great.  From what I've read, they are top damage sets for AoE and single-target respectively.  Tons of fun.  When I wanted to make a character JUST for Really Hard Way badge runs, I went with a Beam Rifle/Kinetics corrupter.

[Apparition]

27 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Fire and Beam Rifle are great.  From what I've read, they are top damage sets for AoE and single-target respectively.  Tons of fun.  When I wanted to make a character JUST for Really Hard Way badge runs, I went with a Beam Rifle/Kinetics corrupter.

 

 

That's how it was done prior to sunset.  Really Hard Way leagues with a ton of Beam Rifle Corruptors, with secondaries with a lot of -res.  Beam Rifle/Cold, Beam Rifle/Dark, Beam Rifle/Rad, etc.

[oedipus_tex]

12 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

That's how it was done prior to sunset.  Really Hard Way leagues with a ton of Beam Rifle Corruptors, with secondaries with a lot of -res.  Beam Rifle/Cold, Beam Rifle/Dark, Beam Rifle/Rad, etc.

 

 

That's so interesting. Never heard that before, though it makes total sense.

 

Gives a real Ghostbusters vibe, 😄

[oedipus_tex]

14 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

• The resistance floor is -300% across all ATs and critters to my knowledge.
• The critters resist the resistance debuff just like players.  So if they have 50% resistance vs fire and you hit them with a 26% resistance debuff they will resist the damage by 37%

 

 

Thanks for the info on the resistance floor. For some reason I thought there was no effective floor for enemies, but in 8-man you wouldn't normally hit a -300 wall.

 

Is there a detailed write up of each of the trials, the badges they contain, and the powers the big bads possess? I actually have access to the game's core DEF files but haven't been able to pick out which portions the trials use or what powers the AVs actually possess versus what the code suggests they "should" have. 

 

 

I do incidentally have a pretty good read on Battle Maiden during the Apex TF. That's not really a trial, but it's interesting to see how her sword-from-heaven attack actually works. I assume that's also how other death patches work. I personally haven't had a huge issue with death patches in a while, some players find them more challenging to avoid than others. It was definitely interesting to see how death patches handle damage to pets.

 

 

The couple of powersets I think I've been able to pick out of the code have interesting properties that probably people who run a lot more trials know about but are new to me. For example, there's a power what looks like Anti-Matter might have that is auto hit* -Defense and Damage aura. It has a 10ft radius, is scale 2.0 -Defense*, is Resistable, and hits 16 targets. I think it can be debuffed with -Special. But I don't know if the in-game Anti-Matter you fight in that trial actually has this power. Compared to powers for the rest of the game, the ones the end game bosses use have a lot of ifs and conditions attached to them that I don't completely follow. Some of their powers I haven't managed to track down at all. I've done the Keyes trial lots but am never the person who actually has to deal with the AV. It's also possible this is some kind of patch power he has and not a literal aura on the AV. The actual abilities these AV are opaque to me.

 

 

* EDITS: Had a second look. That aura is not autohit. And the only Defense type it Debuffs is Melee Defense, which is highly specific and not like a lot of other powers I can think of. If he even actually has this power.

Edited March 21, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[InvaderStych]

5 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Is there a detailed write up of each of the trials, the badges they contain, and the powers the big bads possess? I actually have access to the game's core DEF files but haven't been able to pick out which portions the trials use or what powers the AVs actually possess versus what the code suggests they "should" have. 

 

As a write-up?  Probably nothing comprehensive.  Might find bits and pieces in threads on specific trials.

 

Best bet would be an Entity Search on City of Data.

 

Of course figuring out which version of Anti-Matter to examine is another story.  Is it "Anti-Matter_cutscene," "Anti-Matter_escape" or this one called "Anti-Matter_final" which I am fairly sure is the Keyes Trial version:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/entity.html?entity=antimatter_p_antimatter_final

 

Praetorian AVs particularly are likely to have multiple versions - original versions, re-vamped versions for regular mission arcs (MJ for example) and then the iTrial versions.  Tags on the left help to figure this out: "IncarnateBoss" and "Raid." Class Name looks to be another clue.

[Ironblade]

16 hours ago, Apparition said:

That's how it was done prior to sunset.  Really Hard Way leagues with a ton of Beam Rifle Corruptors, with secondaries with a lot of -res.  Beam Rifle/Cold, Beam Rifle/Dark, Beam Rifle/Rad, etc.

I worked with a group on Infinity that ran it regularly and we didn't focus so much on the primary.  They just needed to be corruptors for the increasing scourge damage to counter Tyrant's regeneration (which went up as his hit points went down).

 

On a full league, we wanted at least 18 corruptors and 4-6 kinetics (who could be corruptors or something else).  On each run, we had spots for 2-3 'carries' to get them the badge.  I didn't create a character specifically for the badge runs so I brought a fire/thermal corruptor.

 

It's a lot easier now.  The Everlasting TFs raid leaders run the Really Hard Way every Sunday.  On the run yesterday, I think we had 14 people.  We definitely had six corruptors because I always count them as my key metric to judge the odds of success.  It was not an ideal league, as we had two kheldians and two tanks but we succeeded at the badge.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

I worked with a group on Infinity that ran it regularly and we didn't focus so much on the primary.  They just needed to be corruptors for the increasing scourge damage to counter Tyrant's regeneration (which went up as his hit points went down).

 

On a full league, we wanted at least 18 corruptors and 4-6 kinetics (who could be corruptors or something else).  On each run, we had spots for 2-3 'carries' to get them the badge.  I didn't create a character specifically for the badge runs so I brought a fire/thermal corruptor.

 

It's a lot easier now.  The Everlasting TFs raid leaders run the Really Hard Way every Sunday.  On the run yesterday, I think we had 14 people.  We definitely had six corruptors because I always count them as my key metric to judge the odds of success.  It was not an ideal league, as we had two kheldians and two tanks but we succeeded at the badge.

 

 

This thread made me realize something really funny. Somehow in all these years I've never done the Magisterium trial. I just watched a video and now I'm not even sure I knew it existed.

 

I suppose it isn't the kind of event people use public channels to recruit for. 

I think I've only done Minds of Mayhem once since being back, since it's rarely advertised either. The Underground I usually avoid because I find it very stressful. Isn't MoM the one where each time you die you put the team at risk of losing the trial? I'm glad that content exists, but intimidated by it.

[golstat2003]

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

That's so interesting. Never heard that before, though it makes total sense.

 

Gives a real Ghostbusters vibe, 😄

 

Who ya gonna call?

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

This thread made me realize something really funny. Somehow in all these years I've never done the Magisterium trial. I just watched a video and now I'm not even sure I knew it existed.

 

I suppose it isn't the kind of event people use public channels to recruit for. 

I think I've only done Minds of Mayhem once since being back, since it's rarely advertised either. The Underground I usually avoid because I find it very stressful. Isn't MoM the one where each time you die you put the team at risk of losing the trial? I'm glad that content exists, but intimidated by it.

Oklahoman sometimes runs PUG Magisterium badge attempts on Excelsior.  They are a great leader.  It is a tough trial. The SG I joined (Cosmic Council On Excelsior) does an every Saturday night group of Incarnate badge runs starting with Magisterium Really Hard Way and then 2-5 other trials.  But mostly it is a trial that is best done with a little more prep than “Let’s do this” followed by “Leeeeroooooy Jennnnnnnkiiiiiiiiins!!!”

Edited March 21, 2022 by Snarky

[Mezmera]

I've done an all range Underground itrial with my dom as the lead tank.  With all the debuffs and support toons we chewed through the whole thing so well.  The Warwalkers and Avatar were nothing to us.  Built right dom's can be the first wheel.  With all of the debuffing we had though 'tanking' the run really only called for bravado.  

 

Later we ran an all melee Underground and we just could not get past the regen Warwalker.  

 

This is no different for the new challenge settings.  There's a return to having good debuff/buffing, while needing one strong tank and I find my dom to be very effective.  It's good to also have good damage on the team.  When you're building a team for these runs its apparent that debuffing/buffing characters will not be redundant but more than one melee character can be, so can too many blasters and no support to keep them standing, and also more than one or two control characters can be a waste for the team as well.  

 

If I were building an optimal team for a relentless Aeon run I'd take one strong dom, 2 blasters, a great tank, I like my Shield tank for this for Grant Cover giving the team some real nice defense but Rad armor probably is better overall and any other well played tank.  The support characters I'd take are 2 Cold Corruptors, a Trick Arrow and Nature defender.  

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mezmera

[Carnifax]

15 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

This thread made me realize something really funny. Somehow in all these years I've never done the Magisterium trial. I just watched a video and now I'm not even sure I knew it existed.

 

I suppose it isn't the kind of event people use public channels to recruit for. 

I think I've only done Minds of Mayhem once since being back, since it's rarely advertised either. The Underground I usually avoid because I find it very stressful. Isn't MoM the one where each time you die you put the team at risk of losing the trial? I'm glad that content exists, but intimidated by it.

 

I only did Magisterium for the first time last year as my SG on Union were running it. I'd no idea what to expect so brought my Time/Sonic defender. We ended up with the Really Hard Way badge. We've retried a few times since and failed TRHW badge (got the Hard Way instead). 

 

Dislike Underground for being so long and grindy. MoM is okay, but the puddles are annoying. Weirdly more than once I've managed to get stuck in the cave (the bit where you fight monsters then stop Mommie getting to the middle with mez). I die just as mom does and end up face down in the shrine while everyone else TPed out for the final fight. 

 

[Uun]

Oklahoman hosts Master of Magisterium badge runs (which doesn't require RHW) pretty often on Excelsior and advertises on LFG. I think Triple Threat (defeating Chimera, Shadowhunter and Nega-Pendragon within 5 seconds of one another) is harder than RHW. It is a trial that benefits from repetition and knowing the mechanics of the AV fights. You need Lore and Destiny unlocked to participate, and most leaders want you to be +3 shifted.

 

Galaxy Brain runs Master of Underground frequently on Excelsior. It runs very smoothly, although he does ask participants to join on Discord as there are several badges that require league coordination. While it is long, I don't find it grindy. You are guaranteed to receive a rare or very rare component.

[ZeeHero]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:31 PM, Snarky said:

Triggered.  Bound to happen in this thread.  But still, really low hanging fruit.  Saying Tankers and Scrappers are desired and Brutes are not desired?  Wow.

 

Any type of in depth analysis might have mitigated this.  But.. . squanto was offered.

 

Sooooooo  This guy thinks a Fire/Fire Tank or a Kinetic Melee Regen Scrapper would be better than any Brute on a Incarnate Trial.  After all, any Tank or Scrapper is desired.  Any Brute is not desired.

 

 

Anything a tanker can do a brute can do. sometimes better, sometimes a little worse.

[Doomguide2005]

On 3/20/2022 at 6:44 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

• The resistance floor is -300% across all ATs and critters to my knowledge.
• The critters resist the resistance debuff just like players.  So if they have 50% resistance vs fire and you hit them with a 26% resistance debuff they will resist the damage by 37%

At least that's my understanding.

     And should have added "Purple Patch" also applies.  And vs +4 foes it's going to get further reduced by another 0.48. 

 

     Really think iTrials vs the new Hardcore difficulties (Ruthless and Relentless, in particular) are very different animals when it comes what works and why.

[Snarky]

Many of the late game (newer?) stuff punishes melee rather heavily.  Death patches and AoE targeting that wipes everyone around the target.  

 

I have been using a Beam Rifle Blaster for Incarnate Badge SG support. I am slowly switching to a Dark/Dark Corruptor as I get good with it.

[KaizenSoze]

12 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     And should have added "Purple Patch" also applies.  And vs +4 foes it's going to get further reduced by another 0.48. 

 

     Really think iTrials vs the new Hardcore difficulties (Ruthless and Relentless, in particular) are very different animals when it comes what works and why.

For no other reason that the new difficultly modes are restricted to 8 players instead of 16+.

 

It makes a huge difference when you have 16+ players worth of buffs.

 

Also, the new diff mode mobs are equipped with nasty debuffs. I have seen -90% resists, massive -recovery, and -regen on my SR tank on relentless runs.

 

iTrials mobs need an update.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

For no other reason that the new difficultly modes are restricted to 8 players instead of 16+.

 

It makes a huge difference when you have 16+ players worth of buffs.

 

Also, the new diff mode mobs are equipped with nasty debuffs. I have seen -90% resists, massive -recovery, and -regen on my SR tank on relentless runs.

 

iTrials mobs need an update.

     Yep Relentless (and Ruthless) mobs are a whole lot nastier than your iTrial mobs.  Incarnates get their To Hit buffed.  In later trials they get some lvl shifts to counter ours.  A Relentless mob gets a To Hit bonus twice that, then goes on to add defense, resistance, perception, rank boosts.  Then adds to its usable powers which is why I suspect your SR tank was seeing some of those numbers as your tank was possible or probable not softcapped 24-7 vs the multiple Melt Armor incoming at times unless you were well buffed by allies (the amount of debuffs to get the same ... doable but harder to do effectively).  And no touching those large inspires you tucked away for rainy day moments, nothing but Awaken type allowed.  Combine this with smaller teams ... .