What Can Be Done to Recruit Players?

[Neiska]

41 minutes ago, Troo said:

please explain the 'real game' that starts at 50, maybe I'm missing something.

 

Itfs, incarnate content, making friends, power building, farming, badge hunting, accolades, crafting, building a financial empire, etc etc etc? If you ask me there is more things to do at 50 than not 50, if all you do on the way to 50 is do combat missions.

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

What do you think no stop recruiting for farms does?

Players are pretty much always telling other players how to play.

 

Well no, no one is forcing anyone to join a farm nor is anyone running a farm telling anyone how to play the game.  Players who ask for or accept an invite to a farm are doing so of their own free will.  There is plenty of non farm related activity being advertised daily on the LFG channel - at least on Excelsior and Torchbearer. 

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I agree.

Let new players yell out for farms if they want.

They will probably end up being flash-in-the-pan players, but I guess we aren't trying to retain players... oh wait....

 

Once again, you are blinded by your own personal view here and simply cannot or will not accept that others may hold a different opinion.  Your view is not "more right" than theirs and vice versa.  I am still here and the large group of people in the channels I belong to are all still here and we use farming to level up alts.  None of us are the "flash in the pan" players you are describing and none of us are any different than any newcomers to the game.  New people coming on board are going to find something that holds their interest or they will not, whether that be slow play or power leveling.  The beauty of this server is the options that are available for both to exist and enjoy the game.

 

1 hour ago, Troo said:

please explain the 'real game' that starts at 50, maybe I'm missing something.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but I enjoy having a fully slotted, fully built character that I can go back and run any content with.  I really do not care for struggling through low levels waiting for endurance and for powers to recharge and using low level, essentially useless enhancements.  That fun does not come until I am 50+.

Edited May 14, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Troo]

22 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

Itfs, incarnate content, making friends, power building, farming, badge hunting, accolades, crafting, building a financial empire, etc etc etc? If you ask me there is more things to do at 50 than not 50, if all you do on the way to 50 is do combat missions.

 

strange. I really thought maybe I was missing something.

 

 

"If you ask me there is more things to do at 50 than not 50" this is true if one counts exemplaring down to the rest of the content.

 

I do get wanting to be powerful.

 

Just to be clear (not to trigger anyone) incarnates are the only thing you've listed that we need to be 50+ for. I'm  glad you had a list and didn't simply put PvP.

• I have a level 32 who is infamy capped a couple times over. Heck I have a level 1 that is infamy capped starting from zero (I don't recommend trying it)
• ITFs are level 35-50. (have you ever tried it at say 45?)
• My goal usually is to get accolades much earlier than 50.

[Neiska]

23 minutes ago, Troo said:

Just to be clear (not to trigger anyone) incarnates are the only thing you've listed that we need to be 50+ for. I'm  glad you had a list and didn't simply put PvP.

• I have a level 32 who is infamy capped a couple times over. Heck I have a level 1 that is infamy capped starting from zero (I don't recommend trying it)
• ITFs are level 35-50. (have you ever tried it at say 45?)
• My goal usually is to get accolades much earlier than 50.

 

 

Well, it's sort of like this. I see the various activities as tools to make my own entertainment, rather than rely on the game to entertain me. Games like Minecraft, Conan, various "building" games and so on. Here's some examples off the top of my head -

- Using the inf I get from AE to form my own little SG of villains, and assign them my own missions, essentially rping a contact and actually awarding them. Like a "I have assembled you here to retrieve X thing. Go to X place and do X newspaper missions, and I will give you X reward." Which both fosters community, roleplay, and rewards low levels and can make them feel like their actions actually matter.

- Using the inf i get from AE to help support rp events, such as costume contests, rp games, dice games, we just had a 500 mil Friday the 13th themed costume party and contest last night as an example.

- Go accolade badge hunting, which I reserve solely as an activity for characters I want to take all the way to the max. The same with T4 incarnates. I get my T1 3rd rank on nearly everyone, just for the level shift. I go t3 on builds i want to see what they are capable of, but I only go full T4 on the builds I truly enjoy. Most of which are MMs, Tankers, and my Crabber.

- Do Ouro missions by myself, both to catch up on stories and lore, at my own pace and time instead of random speeds with random people.

etc.

-Eventually I do want to learn how to base build, but the little I have tried to do I had difficulty with the unwieldly interface, which has only increased my respect for the base builders of talent out there.

 

Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is I don't see as story missions as the main part of the game, at least not anymore, not for me personally. I mean, who gets excited to go "wow I get to play through the Dr Graves chain for the 435th time!" When you just want to get to the end point with a build and see what it can do, the process to get there would be very mind numbing without other options. 

 

Just explaining how I see things. I see all the different activities as options, many of which only come to fruition at level 50. Thats the part of the game I enjoy most, the post-50 things. Not the climb to get there. I can understand if that's all a person does is get to level 50 before starting over, then yes I would agree that would be the game in its entirety for them. But for some of us, combat is a side activity. I much prefer "community" activities, be it games, contests, roleplay, farming to help people level, just hanging out and roleplaying, chatting about game mechanics, and so on. 

 

Best wishes!

Edited May 14, 2022 by Neiska

[Troo]

4 minutes ago, Neiska said:

"wow I get to play through the Dr Graves chain for the 435th time!"

 

I completely agree that things can get old even after repeating them much less than 400 times.

 

I also respect how immense of the game is available to new players or anyone who chooses to start from scratch.

[ZeeHero]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 

please explain the 'real game' that starts at 50, maybe I'm missing something.

They are referring to the fact a completed build is far more fun than a low level character.

[Darmian]

2 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

They are referring to the fact a completed build is far more fun than a low level character.

That's still totally subjective though 🙂

[FDR's Think Tank]

I still regularly see new returning players in the game who hadn't even heard that City of Heroes was playable again.

 

The real issue is that people don't KNOW about the game. And I think the people who would benefit most from knowing about the game are people who like to chat and are looking for a live social platform. If Homecoming can secure the rights for the game or get the rights firmly in the public domain, the best way to market this game wouldn't be as a game. It would be as a virtual chatroom with an optional game. Then you would have plenty of people logging on and open to playing the game and learning.

 

The biggest problem with this approach is that many people probably use cellphones to do chatting these days... but realistically, people without a P.C. weren't your target audience anyway. There are many Gamer themed communication programs too... if City of Heroes could be promoted as a place for gamers to virtually meet up, socialize, and hangout in low pressure situations with online friends, that could work too. They might need to find some ways to prevent spam in the global channels if there WAS a huge influx of users... particularly chatty ones.

 

I just don't see people who want to play an MMO going for City of Heroes unless they have a special attachment to it... The thing is, this game has so much to offer even if that's not what a person is looking for.

 

To promote use as a social platform you'd want more "actions/interactions" that players could use socially. It wouldn't hurt to consider making use of actions more fluid too.... perhaps a "Civilian mode" that swaps out power icon trays with Action trays. Adding more dances would be good too... having some sort of online Radio station players can tune into an listen to at the same time would be really nice too.

 

If this approach worked, the devs could work on creating more Neutral social areas for players to gather... treating the city and mission areas as transit points between rooms.

 

And of course.. the more costume customizations, the more you attract casual players. It might not be a bad idea to start locking new costume parts behind badges/accomplishments/goalposts if too many people only come to chat online.

Edited May 14, 2022 by FDR's Think Tank

[Bionic_Flea]

Silly humans arguing about the right way to play.  All reasonable sentient beings recognize that you have to play like I do, or you're doing it wrong.

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

It might not be a bad idea to start locking new costume parts behind badges/accomplishments/goalposts if too many people only come to chat online.

 

No thank you.  Locking costume pieces is something the Homecoming folk have said they are not going to do. 

[Cancrusher]

4 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

I still regularly see new returning players in the game who hadn't even heard that City of Heroes was playable again.

 

The real issue is that people don't KNOW about the game. And I think the people who would benefit most from knowing about the game are people who like to chat and are looking for a live social platform. If Homecoming can secure the rights for the game or get the rights firmly in the public domain, the best way to market this game wouldn't be as a game. It would be as a virtual chatroom with an optional game. Then you would have plenty of people logging on and open to playing the game and learning.

 

The biggest problem with this approach is that many people probably use cellphones to do chatting these days... but realistically, people without a P.C. weren't your target audience anyway. There are many Gamer themed communication programs too... if City of Heroes could be promoted as a place for gamers to virtually meet up, socialize, and hangout in low pressure situations with online friends, that could work too. They might need to find some ways to prevent spam in the global channels if there WAS a huge influx of users... particularly chatty ones.

 

I just don't see people who want to play an MMO going for City of Heroes unless they have a special attachment to it... The thing is, this game has so much to offer even if that's not what a person is looking for.

 

To promote use as a social platform you'd want more "actions/interactions" that players could use socially. It wouldn't hurt to consider making use of actions more fluid too.... perhaps a "Civilian mode" that swaps out power icon trays with Action trays. Adding more dances would be good too... having some sort of online Radio station players can tune into an listen to at the same time would be really nice too.

 

If this approach worked, the devs could work on creating more Neutral social areas for players to gather... treating the city and mission areas as transit points between rooms.

 

And of course.. the more costume customizations, the more you attract casual players. It might not be a bad idea to start locking new costume parts behind badges/accomplishments/goalposts if too many people only come to chat online.

 

I gotta go with no on everything you just suggested.  I hate social media drek like facebook, twitter, etc. and certainly don't want the game to become mainly about that.   Although, you're right that we aren't going to see a lot of players that don't have a special attachment to this game.  It's old, and there's a lot of new games that will always attract the lion's share of players.  🤷‍♂️

 

So, promote CoH as a social platform and virtual chatroom with a game side-gig?:  No.  That's not what is.  That's not what the dedicated player base wants it to be.  Even dedicated players use Discord for the communication aspect (barring in-game, text-based RP, of course).  And pretty much everyone uses Discord these days, so that suggestion is a non-starter.

 

Civilian mode:  Toggle the walk button.  And you get 10 action trays, already.  While, as an avid RP'er, I would never veto the idea of adding more emotes, the idea that this will draw in more players is just not realistic.

 

More Neutral Areas:  There are plenty of neutral areas in the game to chat (which people do, frequently), not to mention the 100's of player-run clubs and other places.

 

[macskull]

8 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Apparently, that isn't okay with you that we disagree.

Everyone's allowed to have their own opinions, of course, but when you present your opinion as fact that's where your argument starts to break down. "This is just my opinion" and "let's agree to disagree" are just cop-outs when an objectively correct answer exists.

 

Excepting all that, every argument you're making is geared toward players who already play the game, and are therefore not the target audience of this thread's topic - gameplay changes and the community will not attract new players. The only way you will get a non-trivial number of new players is advertising, which Homecoming is not doing. Let's be real here anyways, this game is nearly 20 years old and MMOs don't have the cultural sway they had even ten years ago.

[TorontoSunshine]

There's been some mention of retention over recruitment and a good part of the former has nothing to do with tweaking code or improving response time but the people itself. Like most MMOs there's the "git guud" crowd who have little patience for slowbees on a team.

 

I'm still recovering from COVID19 I contracted a while back, so doing TFs/SFs are a challenge.  I can't process spatial input like I used to so I fall behind a lot. I've gotten the harsh edge of that attitude a few times as a result from that. This same attitude could chase off newcomers who are forgiving about the game's aged appearance but won't forgive some members of the community with a superiority complex when it comes to teaming.

 

That would be a good place to work on improvement.

Edited May 15, 2022 by TorontoSunshine
Massive grammar and punctuation fixxies needed!

[ZeeHero]

Not the only issue with certain parts of the community, but definitely one of them.

[battlewraith]

People just need to start stressing what this robust game engine is actually capable of:

 

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

People just need to start stressing what this robust game engine is actually capable of:

 

Ha 'roBUST' I see what you did there 😄 

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Ha 'roBUST' I see what you did there 😄 

My man of culture👍

[TorontoSunshine]

10 hours ago, Krimson said:

I'll still do stuff like join randoms who need help with something. 

 

Summer Block Busters and DFBs I can still do and am happy to do since it is hard to build a team up for that.

[ZeeHero]

you'd think SBB would be more popular due to the easy (Still valuable I think) enhancement you can get

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, TorontoSunshine said:

Summer Block Busters and DFBs I can still do and am happy to do since it is hard to build a team up for that.

 

What server do you play on?  Reason I ask is, there is a DFB or SBB being advertised every few minutes on Excelsior.  At least during the hours that I am usually playing.

[TorontoSunshine]

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

What server do you play on? 

Everlasting but because of the RP. 

 

I might start an alt on Excelsior for the purpose of, well, actually playing the game. 😁

[ZeeHero]

Everlasting is still active but only at certain hours. if you're not on during that time it will seem dead. but during those hours the player count rivals any of the other servers.

 

Also as for attracting new players I think we need to identify the kind of person who, in a modern gaming world would choose to play COH. it's pretty clear to me that they won't be joining for the responsive, engaging, fluid combat, obviously. they will be joining for the things COH actually really shines at, a great costume editor, the ability to play basically anything you can think up, and make it at least viable, the sheer creative freedom.

 

Champions Online, may it finally rest in pieces, may have got the actual costume editing better, with more color channels, better asymmetry, and better proportion sliders, but COH is far from bad on the costume front, and auras as part of a costume editor is how it should be (altho wouldnt hurt to be able to set more than one).

 

Where COH really trumps everything is the fact that the builds you can make for your characters are truly free, as anything can work if you know the system well, while in CO, the more you know the powers and system, the less free you see it is, CO freeform is a sad joke compared to COH ATs, which are in fact, far more free.

 

A friend of mine once said if he made a superhero game you would "Choose a method of attack or 2, and combine it with a choice of support/defense/offense abilities to make your build" and I see now that what he meant was something akin to what Valiance Online was doing for archetypes, which is really the same as how COH does it, but in reverse, you pick powersets and depending which you picked, your archetype is set. so, if you took the ranged offense set and the CC set, you would be a "Manipulator" which is their version of a dom or troller rolled into one, as if you picked support/CC it would be the controller analouge but still be the same archetype category. Really a very similar idea, just executed differently.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by ZeeHero

[UltraAlt]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

For many of us, the game "starts" at 50, and everything leading up to that is more or less a long, clunky, unnecessarily grindy prelude to where the real game and fun is

 

I understand that some do.

I standby what I said. The "end-game" isn't the game; it is the "end-game".

I think dragging new players into the "end-game" from the start is damaging to retention.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

Maybe its filler to you. It isn't to me.

 

That fine for you.

I think dragging new players into the "end-game" from the start is damaging to retention.

This thread is about recruiting players, and I think player retention is directly linked to recruitment.

If player doesn't want to continue playing, what is the point of luring them to the game in the first place.

 

The Incarnate system is a huge mess.

By dragging a new player to the end-game you are throwing them into a huge pit.

They don't learn the game by playing. Go get mid. Don't figure things out for yourself. Ask everyone else how to slot.

There is no experimentation and feeling a sense of accomplishment when you are spoonfeed. 

Advice is fine. Regulating game play no one wants.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

anyone who plays added ATs/Powersets/Story Arcs are also "playing the game wrong?"

 

"playing the game wrong" are your words. Not mine.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

I hasten to add that you didn't precisely say those words, and I am not trying to "put words into your mouth."

 

Yes,  you are.

if you weren't you could have deleted that rather than typing another sentence to try to cover it up.

 

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

As far as the topic itself, personally I feel that the troubling number of "you are playing the game wrong" stances might be in fact driving people away, and certainly doesn't "attract" new players.

 

Yep. Bet they most of that that mostly play level 50 content.

Tactical advice in a situation when a team is failing is alway different than jumping on someone because of their build or they should stop playing the actual game because it is ...

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

a long, clunky, unnecessarily grindy prelude to where the real game and fun is.

 

 

On 5/14/2022 at 9:24 AM, Neiska said:

And I still stand by my original point that perhaps the best bang for the buck would be for the HC staff

 

... to do all the work?

 

Yeah. I'm seeing the players are too lazy to do it.

 

It shouldn't be on the DEVs if a group of players want to recruit, it's up to them to put their time and/or money into doing it.

 

Homecoming seems to be doing fine without spending resources on a recruiting drive that would likely awaken the sleeping dragon in Korea.

[UltraAlt]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:44 AM, Neiska said:

Itfs, incarnate content, making friends, power building, farming, badge hunting, accolades, crafting, building a financial empire, etc etc etc? If you ask me there is more things to do at 50 than not 50, if all you do on the way to 50 is do combat missions.

 

Make friend, leveling, badge hunting, accolades, crafting, building a financial empire, etc, etc, etc.

I do all that below level 50. Every day that I play.

None of that is restricted to being above level 50.  ... even farming which I personally detest on multiple levels.

 

You can go back and do all the lower level content at 50, but how many level 50 players actually do that? So that's HUGE chunk of gameplay lost from the equation you are giving.

 

I think there is more player retention generated playing lower level content with players than by dragging them to the end-game and throwing them into the deep-end.

[Neiska]

@UltraAlt

 

"You think." "You think." "You think." 

 

There sure are a lot of "you think's" in there. Considering your emphatical stance and claims, I find that amusing. Especially since you have precisely zero access to actual server data that would prove any one of your many claims. You don't "know" any of this for FACT, you merely "think." Which renders your entire point moot when it comes to server policies and rules, especially when people aren't breaking any rules by doing such actions.

 

Let me paint a picture for you. CoH is a playground. You are playing your way, but a group of others are playing in a way they enjoy. For some reason, this upsets you. So you go to the teacher to try and make them stop. "People aren't playing with me!" "They are leaving!" "Why don't they do the things I enjoy?" "Make them stop! Make them play with me!" Which to me speaks volumes about your character more than your dubious and unproven, unfounded claims.

 

Here is a spoiler alert: It isn't written anywhere that people must play your way. And as a side note, it's possible that they actually are, but you are simply unpleasant to be around. So some do play your way, simply not with you. Perhaps stop trying to lecture others on what "you think," because I can assure you, most people either don't care or don't ask for it.

 

The world doesn't revolve around you, or what "you think."

 

Food for thought.