New Regen Powerset - What could it look like?

[Six-Six]

I know @Troo said that this was supposed to be a modified Regen set, but I think it would be more interesting if it was opposite of Regen. Like you get +Def and/or +Res at the cost of HP/regen. I mean it flows with the Berserker theme. You're not actually regenerating or healing, you're just so pumped that you're ignoring damage to your body. It would also be in line with the checks and balances to prevent it from being too strong. It doesn't have to be Def/Res, it could ToHit at the cost of Crit chance (swinging wildly), or even introduce a new mechanic of +damage to your team... I mean there's a reason Berserkers were feared and mostly alone, right?

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, Six-Six said:

I mean there's a reason Berserkers were feared and mostly alone, right?

 

So it should never be team buff oriented. A berserker class in CoH should be all about absorption and +damage. SR's rolling with the punches scaling damres also makes sense. I'd dig a set based on these principles especially if the +damage was attack speed+incoming damage based.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Six-Six said:

I know @Troo said that this was supposed to be a modified Regen set, but I think it would be more interesting if it was opposite of Regen. Like you get +Def and/or +Res at the cost of HP/regen. I mean it flows with the Berserker theme. You're not actually regenerating or healing, you're just so pumped that you're ignoring damage to your body. It would also be in line with the checks and balances to prevent it from being too strong. It doesn't have to be Def/Res, it could ToHit at the cost of Crit chance (swinging wildly), or even introduce a new mechanic of +damage to your team... I mean there's a reason Berserkers were feared and mostly alone, right?

Trying to think of how to build a set along those lines without needing to introduce new mechanics, and am currently drawing a blank here. Throw me bone or something. Something I can figure into an actual set that doesn't make my poor sleep-deprived brain curl up in a ball and refuse to do anything.

[Rudra]

Some minor tweaks to the earlier proposed set:

 

Berserker's Fury

Tier 1: Bear-Shirt Warrior: Auto: +Def (Positional), +Res (All)

Tier 2: Can't Stop Me: Toggle: +regen, +Res (Smash, Lethal, Psi)

Tier 3: Seasoned Warrior: Auto: +Max HP

Tier 4: Hardy Champion: Toggle: +Res (Knockback, Disorient, Sleep, Immobilize), +Res (Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold)

Tier 5: Second Wind: Click: Self heal, +Rec, +Rech

Tier 6: You Can't Run: Auto: +Rech, +Spd

Tier 7: Bound For Valhalla: Click: +Res (All), +Max HP

Tier 8: Unbridled Rage: Toggle: +Dam, +Rech, PBAoE Fear, -Def

Tier 9: AllFather's Chosen: Click: +Def (All), +Res (All), Self revive if defeated, END crash (avoidable by revive triggering during duration)

 

How is that?

 

Edit: Since being defeated disables all powers and their effects on the character, I didn't really need to stipulate how the crash can be avoided, but oh well.

 

Edit again: The health crash can be added back in too, if desired. That would reduce the END crash to 50% crash instead of "Where did my END go?!". SInce the current view of raging barbarian is fatigue at the end, figured the END crash was sufficient. If you want historical where some berserkers just dropped dead from their wounds when they finally calmed down, the health crash makes sense to put in, but we should probably put a 10% health floor in rather than let players keel over dead.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Rudra

[Troo]

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Berserker's Fury

Tier 1: Bear-Shirt Warrior: Auto: +Def (Positional), +Res (All)

Tier 2: Can't Stop Me: Toggle: +regen, +Res (Smash, Lethal, Psi)

Tier 3: Seasoned Warrior: Auto: +Max HP

Tier 4: Hardy Champion: Toggle: +Res (Knockback, Disorient, Sleep, Immobilize), +Res (Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold)

Tier 5: Second Wind: Click: Self heal, +Rec, +Rech

Tier 6: You Can't Run: Auto: +Rech, +Spd

Tier 7: Bound For Valhalla: Click: +Res (All), +Max HP

Tier 8: Unbridled Rage: Toggle: +Dam, +Rech, PBAoE Fear, -Def

Tier 9: AllFather's Chosen: Click: +Def (All), +Res (All), Self revive if defeated, END crash (avoidable by revive triggering during duration)

 

How is that?

 

looks like a good start for a powerset, the T9 is interesting.

how much +Def in the T1? just a little?

[Rudra]

I don't know specific numbers, that would have to be resolved by those that know the background mechanics and balance better. As an auto-power though? Yeah, it would have to be low simply because all the auto-powers I can remember for defense are low.

[fancy ketchup]

1 hour ago, Six-Six said:

I know @Troo said that this was supposed to be a modified Regen set, but I think it would be more interesting if it was opposite of Regen. Like you get +Def and/or +Res at the cost of HP/regen. I mean it flows with the Berserker theme. You're not actually regenerating or healing, you're just so pumped that you're ignoring damage to your body. It would also be in line with the checks and balances to prevent it from being too strong. It doesn't have to be Def/Res, it could ToHit at the cost of Crit chance (swinging wildly), or even introduce a new mechanic of +damage to your team... I mean there's a reason Berserkers were feared and mostly alone, right?

 

Thats a really interesting idea.. I was not familiar with berserkers and looked it up.. apparently  vikings ingesting mushrooms which helped them rage/ blood lust in battle? Reminds me of stimpacks in starcraft or mad max when they would inhale chrome paint yelling "witness me!"

 

Long term harm for a short burst of energy. Superadine would be the obvious answer but then.. heroes on drugs.. might need an in game 12 step program between missions.

[Rudra]

Drugs not necessary, though it does help according to history. Just have to find that spark of anger and feed it until it grows out of control. Feeling fear and using that to spark and fuel the rage is an effective way to reach that state. It just takes a fair amount of time to build up that much rage. So yeah, I can see how drugs would be helpful to get there faster.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Rudra
Made some tweaks.

[fancy ketchup]

I totally agree but a 12 step program heal with your sponsor pet would be so much fun in the middle of a battle.

[fancy ketchup]

Might be too close to blasters but more damage dependant on their health bar may fit the bill.

[Koopak]

Sorry I'm late to the party, looks like i missed all of the people naysaying regen and waving the "port sentinel" flag around again. Almost tempted to put a rush on getting the sentinel version of my regen calculator complete just to further prove the point, smh. 

I generally like the idea here of a berserker, despite what some posters have said this IS a unique design, because Regen is a purely defensive armor set currently, to the point that it's clickyness is actually a detriment to dps, and I really don't agree about Willpower, Will is a mixed set, its just got high regen compared to everyone else.

The regularly proposed idea of a +damage buff based on missing hp slots cleanly here and while some would call this bad, i actually like the idea of having to balance your build such that you get the best damage without faceplanting, a T9 that allows a brief immunity to death but not health loss leads into this really well too and, as far as I'm aware, is within the possibility of existing game code. I wouldn't switch to this as my main but I'd definitely have an alt.

[Troo]

@Koopak now I'm curious, what you might think could get you to switch? Would it be regen-ish?

 

There are lots of different directions something could go in.

Spiritual-ish: A paladin theme where not only can this character heal themselves but it spills over to those in proximity.

Demon-ish: Not only do they quickly regenerate but get to close and they start to such hp from enemies.

Terror: Enemies question their resolve when their damage seems to have little result.

Stored Energy: Yes we take hits and heal quickly but some of that incoming damage can be stored and redirected.

Etc, etc, etc.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Troo
i editz

[PeregrineFalcon]

I'm issuing an injunction against any new powersets until after Energy Aura has been ported to Tankers.

 

We're adjourned.

 

[Troo]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm issuing an injunction against any new powersets until after Energy Aura has been ported to Tankers.

 

I thought it was Regeneration being ported to Tankers..

[Glacier Peak]

All these ideas are great, but has there been any indication from any powers dev that the regeneration powerset would get any kind of change? Aside from that, it'd be fun to test out all the ideas that have been suggested in the Suggestion and Feedback Thread. Pretty sure that's the majority of the ideas on the thread anyways!

[Koopak]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

@Koopak now I'm curious, what you might think could get you to switch? Would it be regen-ish?

Probably nothing, my first character at release was a Katana/Regen Scrapper, I'm pretty ride or die. That said I would want to divorce the set from any theming more specific than "get hit, hit back harder" as I find theming powerset strongly makes it harder for people to envision alternate ideas that boil down to the same mechanics.

A good example of this is while people are generally comfortable treating Super Reflexes as either super speed, spiddy sense, precog, or even just dodgy man what dodge good, you'll also find a lower number of people trying to re theme Ice or Stone Armor, which makes sense. Its forgivable for common themes like elemental powers, but for an offensive take on the regeneration model id go with something more vague.

Willpower honestly takes on of the easiest name idea, but something like Zeal, Responsiveness, or maybe just 'Aggression' as some half baked name/theme ideas.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Koopak

[Rudra]

29 minutes ago, Koopak said:

That said I would want to divorce the set from any theming more specific than "get hit, hit back harder" as I find theming powerset strongly makes it harder for people to envision alternate ideas that boil down to the same mechanics.

Okay... I can understand that sentiment. However, it is the theme of a set that sets the guidelines for what powers and effects it should include. Without a unifying theme, I'd never have been able to cobble together any of the sets I came up with. (Both meant in humor and in seriousness.)

 

My suggestion for dealing with people who can't come up with ideas that utilize the same mechanics of a given set without sticking to the originating theme? Create a character that uses the set in a creative manner. A lot of my ideas come from different approaches I see or hear from others. A lot of times I disagree with the creativity people use with sets. Like using /BIo and calling it dark or whatever. However, I can disagree with people about anything and all it will simply mean is my form of creativity and their form of creativity is different.

 

So I say keep the themes. They give the basis for designing the set. And let those that can create something new from that set do so with their characters and show the rest of us how to get out of this damn box.

 

(Edit: As an aside, though it will never happen, I would love to see some of my humor ideas get implemented. Maybe the Savage Flock set or the Animated Sword set.... 😀)

 

(Edit again: Wait... Summon Sword was meant in all seriousness... so... ... gimme my angry bird MM primary power set please! 😆)

Edited April 29, 2022 by Rudra

[Koopak]

21 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So I say keep the themes. They give the basis for designing the set. And let those that can create something new from that set do so with their characters and show the rest of us how to get out of this damn box.

To be clear I'm not saying no theming, I'm saying loose theming. Avoid 'Viking Berserker' and stick to 'Berserker', 'Guardian' instead of 'Paladin'. Vague themes keep the concept malleable while giving direction. 

[Rudra]

Ah. Okay.

 

I'd like to point out that the Berserker Fury set only has 2 actual Norse references in it. Bound For Valhalla can just as easily be called Bound For Glory since the principle is to point out someone who fights with such savagery as to reap glory towards the afterlife. (And was not meant in any way as meaning the individual is on their way to Valhalla, which would mean (s)he was dead.) AllFather's Chosen can just as easily be called Juggernaut or just about anything else. The other names were intentionally left not specific to the Norse, but are based on the generic idea of the berserker. Bear-shirt warrior, if you drop the warrior which is implied, is simply the translation of berserker. Does that work for loose theme?

[fancy ketchup]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Bound For Valhalla can just as easily be called Bound For Glory since the principle is to point out someone who fights with such savagery as to reap glory towards the afterlife. (And was not meant in any way as meaning the individual is on their way to Valhalla, which would mean (s)he was dead.)

 

I kind of feel like it should be the opposite. Like you are losing hit points and get crazy damage when clicked.. maybe stop losing hp at 10 or 5% health. Truley bound for glory 😄 valhalla worm food!

 

...but I guess thats kind of the opposite of what we were doing here. Now I've confused myself.

Edited April 29, 2022 by fancy ketchup
I confuse myself.

[Bionic_Flea]

23 hours ago, Six-Six said:

I know @Troo said that this was supposed to be a modified Regen set, but I think it would be more interesting if it was opposite of Regen. Like you get +Def and/or +Res at the cost of HP/regen. I mean it flows with the Berserker theme. You're not actually regenerating or healing, you're just so pumped that you're ignoring damage to your body. It would also be in line with the checks and balances to prevent it from being too strong. It doesn't have to be Def/Res, it could ToHit at the cost of Crit chance (swinging wildly), or even introduce a new mechanic of +damage to your team... I mean there's a reason Berserkers were feared and mostly alone, right?

 

22 hours ago, Rudra said:

Trying to think of how to build a set along those lines without needing to introduce new mechanics, and am currently drawing a blank here. Throw me bone or something. Something I can figure into an actual set that doesn't make my poor sleep-deprived brain curl up in a ball and refuse to do anything.

The scaling resist in SR or the Reactive Defenses proc would be an example of that.  There's also some powers in Rad Armor and perhaps Bio that give different effect depending on current health/endurance stats.  Or even defiance 1.0.  We also have Force of Nature/Geas of the Kind Ones that boost Recovery, Acc, and Recharge at a cost of lost defense.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm liking Six-Six's take on it.

[PeregrineFalcon]

The more I think about this the more I like this idea as a power pool. This way any character of any AT could be a berserker.

 

The 5th power would be something like this: you can't click it unless your HP is under 50%, when you click it you get 60 seconds of mez protection, +100% damage buff, and you take no damage. Once the 60 seconds is up you lose the buffs and all damage you accumulated during that 60 seconds is immediately applied to you.

 

I wouldn't call it "Bound for Valhalla" though, I'd call it "Cowboy Up!"

[Koopak]

Would need to be tweaked to do the damage over time our reduced since 60 seconds is enough time to accumulate the damage necessary to kill you several times over but I'm a fan

[RogerWilco]

On 4/27/2022 at 10:30 PM, Snarky said:

I doubt I can add much to the conversation.  I have run a LOT of Willpower.  Love it.  Not much Regen.  It sits at a tough end of the CoH game design spectrum IMO.  Invulverability is custom made to be in the sweet spot and Regen is wayyyyyyyyy out in the sour,

 

The only thing I look at when I eyeball it (and I am sure this is crazy as it gets) is why is Moment of Glory +Def/+Res.  (I know why, it works....)  But it does not match thematically at all.  Okay, you have a Moment of Glory, you finally get the powers you need for CoH is what it seems to say.  How about.....WAY MORE REGEN THAN THE GAME CAN HANDLE?  For those beautiful 15 seconds you can stand in death patches from incarnate trials....have BAB and POS and the entire Freedom Phalanx pound you into the ground (and smile back at them....)   How about Regeneration?  Show some theme truth.  Show some creative continuity.  Show what REAL Regeneration could be....

 

I love my Regeneration/Street Fighting Brute. It's my favourite character and was my highest level back on live (49), Since yesterday she is my first full T4 incarnate.

 

I think Regeneration is great.

• It does have a big mathematical problem though compared to other defensive power sets: It doesn't scale (much) with incoming damage. This means that you are really solid until you suddenly are not as the incoming damage per second goes above your amount of regen. This is where Regen has its main game design problem. Moment of Glory helps, but doesn't last very long and has a long cooldown. Moment of Glory is the only power in the set I think needs some love.
• Regeneration also requires a lot of active management and clicking, which loses you actions you can spend on other things. I would not remove this aspect, as I like the challenge, but it could maybe grant something to compensate.

I haven't had (much) trouble with debuffs though, but that might depend on which content I play.

 

I have played a lot of tanks in other MMOs, and I find that in comparison it's hard in CoH to anticipate damage spikes. There isn't enough clear telegraphing that something is coming and your HP buffer isn't big enough to really time your active abilities to react in time. There are just more random spikes from a lot of monsters hammering you at the same time, compared to a big boss monster with clear telegraphed moves.

 

I do think that Regeneration is a really unique defensive set and I really like playing because of all the active abilities. It feels awesome when I time things correctly and survive. You really feel like a Wolverine type hero.

[Troo]

Congrats @RogerWilco