New Regen Powerset - What could it look like?

[Troo]

Hi and thanks for at least being curious.

 

I'd like to propose discussing a new powerset that is similar to Regeneration but different. Collectively maybe come up with a suggestion.

 

Many of the ideas that get suggested for regen could significantly impact the style and functions. Kinda of a non-starter for some.

That said, there are some interesting ideas that could work for a new set.

 

One idea is that of a Berserker style "someone who wears a coat made out of a bear's skin". We get hit and it makes our character mad.

 

Power/Level/Effect

• Fast Healing [rename] / 1 / Auto: Self +Regen, +Res(Regen Debuff)
• Reconstruction  Heal / 2 / Click: Self Heal, +Res(Smash/Lethal/Psi)
• Quick Recovery Quicken / 4 20 / Auto: Self +Recovery +Recharge
• Dull Pain / 10 / Click: Self Heal, +Max Health (this power just works on multiple sets and no need to make it different)
• Integration / 16 / Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +Regen
• Resilience / 20  4 / Auto: Self +Res(Disorient, Knockback, All DMG (potentially scaling))
• Instant Healing / 28 / +Regen
• Instant Healing Rebuke / 28 / Click: PBAoE -ToHit +Regen (same or similar regen, recharge & duration?)
• Revive Bezrerker / 35 / Click: Self Rez +Dam +Recovery +Recharge +NerfProtection
• Moment of Glory Glory / 38 / Click: Self +DEF(All DMG but Psionics Fire), +Res(All DMG but Psionics Fire, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback, Repel), +Recovery

 

Potentially poaching from other sets

• Shield Defense
  • True Grit / ?? / Auto: Self +Res(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Toxic), +Max Health
  • Against All Odds / ?? / Toggle: PBAoE, Foe -DMG, Self +DMG Each enemy that stands toe-to-toe with you in combat will grant you a damage bonus.
• Invulnerability

  • Unyielding / ?? / Toggle: Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback)

• Fiery Aura

  • Fiery Embrace / ?? / Self +DMG, +DMG(Fire)

•  

 

I like the idea of bit more resist and a tiny bit less regen. (but i really like current regen levels)
 

Spoiler

@Koopak had some interesting research on effective regen (yep i saw that). @Menelruin had an idea of a reactive power which made me think of something that could scale and add a type of rage. @Haijinx wants to continue nerfing regen.. so..

@Hyperstrike would rather see EA on tank than Regen.. maybe Berzerker type set on tanks? @arcane @Without_Pause, @Infinitum, @Six-Six, @Jawbreaker, @Oubliette_Red, @Lines, @Bionic_Flea might bring some whimsy. @PeregrineFalcon is gonna just /jr this.. Nooo @Snarky will.. well.. make some logical sense but not as much as @biostem or @Tyrannical, @Apparition, @Bill Z Bubba @Bill Z Bubba @Bill Z Bubba, @TopDoc, @MTeague, @Solarverse, @Redlynne, @The_Warpact had an idea. (see, I mention you!) @Sovera might wall of words (in a good way), @Vanden, @Coyote, @Lines, @macskull

if @Galaxy Brain & @Bopper & @The Philotic Knight wanted to.. a new regen/resist powerset could be a thing. @Luminara keep it clean! @arcanaville oh yes i did, @Greycat, @Jimmy where u b? @nihilii? @EmmySky?  @Yomo Kimyata no $$ here move along, @DougGraves, @Player2, @Christopher Robin, @TheZag almost to 1k! @MunkiLord, @ShardWarrior, @SwitchFade, @Techwright, @Ukase, @tidge, @Doomguide2005

 

#isthisshamelessmaybebuttihasfun

#painmedsaretrouble

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Troo

[Spaghetti Betty]

I like this idea. A more offensive-leaning Regen set.

 

If we're gonna get rid of Integration, why not give it a version of AAO that has mez protection? It would be in line with the theme.

 

And as far as the rez goes, in my eyes a Berserker is more about staying up in combat through sheer fury, instead of having a way to get back up after going down. In D&D, high level Barbarians gain the ability to ignore death as long as they are enraged (you know, unless they get hit with something like Power Word: Kill). They still take all the damage, but their HP can't be reduced to 0 until their Rage is over.

 

Just a thought to set this further apart from Regen. I have no idea how it would work mechanically.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Spaghetti Betty

[Hyperstrike]

We already have a different sort of Regen set.

It's called "Willpower".

Not really sure how to turn Regeneration into some form of offensive set.
Not and maintain systematic coherence.

[Troo]

17 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

We already have a different sort of Regen set.

 

 Maybe a middle of the road or weak resist set combined with regen? Willpower = CoX training wheels!!

 

20 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

If we're gonna get rid of Integration, why not give it a version of AAO that has mez protection? It would be in line with the theme.

 

sure!

Maybe Berserker could be a MoG replacement. I just thought it interesting to have a no-you-didn't rez or if a face defeat in order to.. along those lines.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm just worried that you felt the need to say my name three times to summon me. Or maybe that's just plain right.

 

Edit: I still think regen and nrg aura need to get ported to tanks as is. And then tank damage needs to be nerfed back to prior levels.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[DougGraves]

So this is Willpower until level 35?

 

You need to decide the role of the set and you better fit into that role by level 12 as a primary and 20 as a secondary.

 

What if you had a rapid recharge self rez?  Build this so it is aggressive and is expected to be defeated but self rezzes and continues the fight?

[Troo]

6 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

So this is Willpower until level 35?

 

You need to decide the role of the set and you better fit into that role by level 12 as a primary and 20 as a secondary.

 

What if you had a rapid recharge self rez?  Build this so it is aggressive and is expected to be defeated but self rezzes and continues the fight?

 

So this is Willpower until level 35? Based on Regeneration powerset

I just threw out a random 1/2 baked to get the ball rolling. Maybe someone has a better idea than a regen with more resists and a funky +dam.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Troo

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

I'd like to propose discussing a new powerset that is similar to Regeneration but different. Collectively maybe come up with a suggestion.

We already have two of those. One that's very clicky and one that has no clicks at all.

 

I'm not sure how you justify adding a third set that just does the same thing that the first two do.

 

31 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Edit: I still think regen and nrg aura need to get ported to tanks as is. And then tank damage needs to be nerfed back to prior levels.

Yes, yes, and /jranger.

 

😁

[Bill Z Bubba]

I brought out Bestest Bruter (my fire/regen brute) the other night for a Yin with the SG and it inadvertently led to many of them creating their own "Bestest" somethings where we brainstormed for the worst possible combos for each archetype. Yea, the followup DFB was amusing.

 

Aaaaanyway...

 

My actual "fix" for regen? Make the set grant 95% Regen Debuff Resistance and 50% Recharge/Movement Debuff Resistance. Turn Instant Healing into an Absorption toggle. Turn Revive into Second Wind as per the Sentinel change.

[Troo]

Just now, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm not sure how you justify adding a third set that just does the same thing that the first two do.

 

Shear number of posts/discussions related to topic? Give em what they want!

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Shear number of posts/discussions related to topic? Give em what they want!

Oh, ok. So we don't poll the player base and get a real idea of what the majority of the players want. Nooooo. Instead what we do is we reward people for spamming the forums with the same idea over and over again.

 

Yeah, that'll go over well.

[InvaderStych]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

My actual "fix" for regen? Make the set grant 95% Regen Debuff Resistance and 50% Recharge/Movement Debuff Resistance. Turn Instant Healing into an Absorption toggle. Turn Revive into Second Wind as per the Sentinel change.

 

All of this.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

43 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm just worried that you felt the need to say my name three times to summon me. Or maybe that's just plain right.

 

Edit: I still think regen and nrg aura need to get ported to tanks as is. And then tank damage needs to be nerfed back to prior levels.

I was confused by me getting a notification for this thread, and honestly had to go looking for why. Feels like needlessly naming dropping while saying what borderline looks like gibberish.

 

EA to Tanks is a separate issue. This thread should have been done in suggestions.

 

My stance on Regen remains the same. Regen needs debuff resistance against

1. Regen
2. Recharge
3. End Drain

Regen as is on Tanks is "Good luck with that."

[Snarky]

I doubt I can add much to the conversation.  I have run a LOT of Willpower.  Love it.  Not much Regen.  It sits at a tough end of the CoH game design spectrum IMO.  Invulverability is custom made to be in the sweet spot and Regen is wayyyyyyyyy out in the sour,

 

The only thing I look at when I eyeball it (and I am sure this is crazy as it gets) is why is Moment of Glory +Def/+Res.  (I know why, it works....)  But it does not match thematically at all.  Okay, you have a Moment of Glory, you finally get the powers you need for CoH is what it seems to say.  How about.....WAY MORE REGEN THAN THE GAME CAN HANDLE?  For those beautiful 15 seconds you can stand in death patches from incarnate trials....have BAB and POS and the entire Freedom Phalanx pound you into the ground (and smile back at them....)   How about Regeneration?  Show some theme truth.  Show some creative continuity.  Show what REAL Regeneration could be....

[Doomguide2005]

     I've never taken the time to stop and read Sentinel's version of Regeneration Second Wind.  And I like.  See why folks keeping pointing at it (including while talking about tweaks to Empathy's Resurrect).

 

     Regeneration is much like Super Reflexes in the sense that it is a one trick pony.  Unlike SR it lacks the tools/abilities to keep that one trick strong when it is getting hammered by debuffs, in particular recharge and heal/regeneration debuffs.  That is probably where the biggest issues lie particularly when talking about leveling in content and with pre-IO builds.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Typos, always with typos

[Solarverse]

I'm to the point that I don't even care what we do to it anymore. So many ideas over the years and nobody can agree on them. I don't even care that we don't agree anymore, just do...something...with Regen, anything.

Also, best Hidden Content ever!

[Bionic_Flea]

Meh.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Willpower = CoX training wheels!!

 

Sit on it, Potsie.

[DougGraves]

Berserker warrior who is strengthened by conflict and refuses to stay dead.

 

1 - toggle, +regen per foe

1 - auto, +regen, Resistance(Regen Debuff)

2 - toggle, +recharge per foe

6 - auto, Damage Resistance (All)

8 - auto, mezz protection

12 - toggle, +dmg per foe

18 - self rez, heals to full, END to full, +dmg, +regen, stuns foes aoe

26 - something

32 - something

[Alchemystic]

Not gonna lie, most of the powersets I make are frankensteined from stolen material.

I know my thread is called 'eco-friendly powerset recycling' but that's just a cleaner term than 'power thieving charlatanry'. But, after a while I started to pick up on the general formula these powersets tend to follow, and what sort of things were missing from the game.

 

So, I think finding a niche for a set like this might be worth looking into, instead of just being Regen 2.0. Looking at mechanics that were introduced into the late game we have Absorb and Heal over Time (and their progeny Absorb over Time), which could be used as a basis for this set. Then we can use Regen as a template to work from, and see how it all fits together.

 

Something like this perhaps?

 

1 -  Auto: Self +Regen

2 -  Click: Self +Absorb
3 -  Auto: Self +MaxHP, +Recovery

4 -  Click: Self +Heal over Time

5 -  Click: Mez Protection

6 -  Toggle: Self +Regen, Foe -Regen

7 -  Toggle: Self +Absorb over Time

8 -  Click: Self Rez (Defeated)/Self +Heal, Minor Heal over Time (Alive)

9 -  Click: Self +Heal Power, +Regen, +MaxHP, +Recharge (Powerset only)

 

If you're looking for visual FX for this kind of powerset, stealing sampling from Praetorian Ghouls, Beast Mastery, and Savage Melee/Assault could work to emulate that 'berserker' style.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Tyrannical

[Spaghetti Betty]

Ok, now that I'm at my desk, I wanted to throw some Spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. Here's my take on an offense-focused Healing secondary. I'll go into detail on things that aren't self explanatory.

 

Healing (Click Self Heal +Res(Debuff Regen))

Constitution (Auto +MaxHP, +Regen, Res(Debuff Regen))

Resilience (Auto +Res(All DMG, Stun)

Ignore Pain (Click Self +Absorb)

Battle Frenzy (Toggle Self +Recharge +DMG +Res(Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, Fear), Foe Taunt)

      While toggled, you gain a small amount of recharge and damage bonus for every foe around you, up to 10. You also gain protection to Hold, Sleep, Immobilize, and Fear.

Vigor (Auto +recovery, Res(Slow))

Second Chance (Self Revive, or Heal)

      If you are defeated, you revive with a base 50% HP and 75% END. If you click this while alive, you heal a scaling amount of HP, gaining the most when you are near death.

Undying (Toggle Self +Regeneration, Foe -DMG)

      While toggled, you gain an amount of Regeneration for every foe around you, up to 10. Surrounding foes also deal less damage.

Berserker Fury (Click Self +Special +DMG +ToHit +Recharge)

      When activated, you enter a Fury so deep that you ignore blows that would've otherwise defeated you. You still take incoming damage, but your HP cannot go below 1. You also gain a tremendous damage, accuracy, and recharge bonus. This effect lasts for 15 seconds.

 

Since the idea is "my defense is healing", I didn't want to include a lot of other stuff. Absorb felt like a no-brainer. The idea behind the not-MoG is that instead of making yourself invincible so you don't go down as fast, you just don't care how fast you go down in order to clear out the stuff that's hitting you in the first place. Although having a RttC clone plus an absorb barrier might be a little too good. I dunno, this is just me expanding on a wild idea.

[Troo]

4 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Oh, ok. So we don't poll the player base and get a real idea of what the majority of the players want. Nooooo. Instead what we do is we reward people for spamming the forums with the same idea over and over again.

 

Yeah, that'll go over well.

 

Just my opinion, but its a better option that secreting planning to tear down and rebuild an existing powerset. Making a new powerset doesn't hurt anything.

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Just my opinion, but its a better option that secreting planning to tear down and rebuild an existing powerset. Making a new powerset doesn't hurt anything.

I'm not disagreeing with you on this.

 

However, it's not necessary to "tear down and rebuild" Regen. I read nothing but praise for Sentinel Regen so how hard would it be to run the numbers and tweak Regen just enough to make it not suck?

 

Also, my primary objection really has nothing to do with Regen. It has to do with making an entirely unnecessary powerset to reward those people who have been posting non-stop about "fixing" or "replacing" Regen. Rewarding bad behavior causes said behavior to substantially increase. You do that just once and you'd better buckle up, cupcake, cause the forum will get flooded with an entirely new kind of stupid the likes of which Shai-Hulud has never seen.

 

At this point I'd advise the developers (not that they'll ever listen to anything I ever say) to not ever fix Regen just so that this doesn't happen.

[Troo]

16 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm not disagreeing with you on this.

 

However, it's not necessary to "tear down and rebuild" Regen. I read nothing but praise for Sentinel Regen so how hard would it be to run the numbers and tweak Regen just enough to make it not suck?

 

Also, my primary objection really has nothing to do with Regen. It has to do with making an entirely unnecessary powerset to reward those people who have been posting non-stop about "fixing" or "replacing" Regen. Rewarding bad behavior causes said behavior to substantially increase. You do that just once and you'd better buckle up, cupcake, cause the forum will get flooded with an entirely new kind of stupid the likes of which Shai-Hulud has never seen.

 

At this point I'd advise the developers (not that they'll ever listen to anything I ever say) to not ever fix Regen just so that this doesn't happen.

 

No worries. I don't think Regeneration is as broke as some try to say. It could use very minor tweaks.

Folks have posted some interesting ideas that go beyond mere tweaks and I'm willing to entertain another set.

We do have more than 2 resistance sets and more than 2 defense sets. That said, I hear what you're saying about rewarding squeaky wheels.

 

@arcane lol

 

@Spaghetti Betty@Tyrannical@DougGraves thanks for playing along. I'm gonna ponder your proposed sets and will reply.

 

A new regen type set doesn't have to be what I put out. I think there are great ideas and maybe in game enemies that have potential. A new powerset that recycles/renames existing powers and animations has to be easier than something from scratch.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

12 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I read nothing but praise for Sentinel Regen

 

It's better on Sents than the Melee ATs, that is true. It's still not top tier.