Mind Control buffs

[kelika2]

Mesmerize - Bump it up to High damage

Lift - Add a Mag1 hold, to stack with Dominate to hold a boss quickly

Dominate - same

Confuse - add a chain/jump effect up to 5 targets.  This is to set it apart from Forts, Dark and Illusion

Mass Hypnosis - unchanged

Telekinesis - use the Singularities new draw-in effect for this on a target.  Now assuming the effect would still stay on even after defeat like /radi or /dark toggles just imagine all the usefulness that toggle debuffs would get

Total Domination - switch with Mass Confusion

Terrify - add a -tohit debuff to this, the fear alone is junk and the psi dmg is meh

Mass Confusion - same, but at level 18

 

Now, since Mass Confusion and Total Domination are both 4 minute cooldowns there should be no difference in control abilities at low or mid levels, but stacking confuse effects at a lower level would make Mind Control feel different than other sets

 

Now, while this was typed with a Controller in mind I may as well talk about Dominators

Mesmerize being High damage this can allow for some ranged only builds for Dominators

Lift wont be much except a mag2 with Domination up.  Sure it might stack up to be something

And the Telekinesis change would be extremely helpful for bundling up for melee aoes

[biostem]

It would be interesting if Mind Control could be given a power that basically turns an enemy into a permanent thrall under your control, (maybe keep it to LTs or below for balance).

[Rudra]

*cringes at the thought of a player mind controlled Nemesis sniper*

 

Would be thematic, but maybe limit the thrall to the mission? Put the mind control ability on a longer timer? ... I don't know. As long as the player isn't running around with Lord Recluse or Deathsurge or something else equally over the top, which your suggestion of limiting to lieutenants and below addresses, I don't see anything wrong with mind controllers grabbing a random pet follower.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

*cringes at the thought of a player mind controlled Nemesis sniper*

 

Would be thematic, but maybe limit the thrall to the mission? Put the mind control ability on a longer timer? ... I don't know. As long as the player isn't running around with Lord Recluse or Deathsurge or something else equally over the top, which your suggestion of limiting to lieutenants and below addresses, I don't see anything wrong with mind controllers grabbing a random pet follower.

Even if it was just kept to minions or underlings, it'd still be very cool.

[Rudra]

Ha! Make it a toggle to reflect the effort of keeping the target enthralled! That could be the Total Domination!   😄

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Ha! Make it a toggle to reflect the effort of keeping the target enthralled! That could be the Total Domination!   😄

Hmm... then what I'd do is restore the ability to enthrall LTs as well, but have the end cost slowly escalate over time...

[arcane]

I like the suggestions for Mesmerize and Telekinesis. Maybe Terrify too. Terrify is already awesome though so could do without the debuff. Don’t like the other suggestions. The Confuse idea is over the top and the Lift idea is just arbitrary. My 2 inf.

 

Add Fear triggering Containment as critical for Mind Control.

 

I cannot overstate how powerful the reverse repel effect is either and think that would be enough for one round of buffs. In general I would oppose throwing such a potent effect around willy nilly, but Telekinesis is the perfect candidate. (1) not on a set that needs no help, like say Water Blast Whirlpool, (2) high end cost to mitigate the effect’s potency, (3) revives a long busted power.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

Nah. Let it affect lieutenants and lower, and have it as a toggle that costs as much or maybe a little less than a damage aura in endurance. Maybe a little more than? ... Would depend on how effective overall at contributing damage it would be if only applied to lieutenants compared to a damage aura I guess. As for becoming de-toggled if the controller is held, stunned, or otherwise rendered inactive? I'll let wiser heads determine that. I don't really see a need for escalating endurance costs, except possibly as a variable dependent on whether the target was a lieutenant, minion, or underling.

[biostem]

I also want to add that I think Mind Control should be broken into 2 sets;  One focusing on Professor X style mental domination, and the other into one focused on telekinesis/psychokinesis, (or would that intrude too much on Gravity).

[Rudra]

Oh yeah, the target would also need to despawn if released to keep people from enthralling a level 54 lieutenant and then releasing it in Mercy Island or Atlas Park. Or the thrall should not be able to zone. Or some other method of containment. Whatever.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, biostem said:

I also want to add that I think Mind Control should be broken into 2 sets;  One focusing on Professor X style mental domination, and the other into one focused on telekinesis/psychokinesis, (or would that intrude too much on Gravity).

Mmmm... making 2 sets is feasible... after all, we have broadsword and katana. Would just have to make sure the psychokinesis/telekinesis is sufficiently different in feel and application. However, if you want to go that route, I recommend three sets then.

 

Set 1: Mentalist: Current Mind Control (with any tweaks).

Set 2: Mind Control: Which would need to be fleshed out as a controller/dominator style pet class.

Set 3: Telekinesis: Which would need to be fleshed out and differentiated from Gravity.

 

Edit: Reason being is that comics have pure mentalists (the pet mind control idea), psychokineticists, and general mentalists (that have various names) that do a bit of both.

 

Edit again: The mind control (pet version) should probably also include some illusion control ability as well, since that also falls under what pure telepaths inflict on others. Which would also need to be differentiated from Illusion Control in some way. ... This is getting more complicated than anticipated....

Edited May 19, 2022 by Rudra

[biostem]

I mean, only levitate and telekinesis would really be ported to this new "Psychokinesis" set, which would leave room for the proposed "Enthrall" power + one other.

 

Idea for Psychokinesis:

 

1. Anchored - single target immobilize, moderate DoT smashing damage, -fly.

2. Levitate (as the mind control power).

3. Constriction - moderate DoT smashing damage, hold.

4. Fling - attempts to lift a single foe and forcefully throw them at other enemies, (you'd target an enemy, then cast the power at a location, where it'd deal moderate smashing damage to the target and all enemies in an AoE, plus knocking down any enemies hit).

5. Flatten - forcibly knocks down enemies in a cone in front of you and attempts to immobilize them.

6. Telekinesis (again as per the mind control power).

7. Expulsion - PBAoE knockback dealing heavy smashing damage to all enemies affected.

8. Telekinetic Barrier - click power, temporarily grants a large amount of ranged defense and deals moderate DoT to any enemies with a small PBAoE of you.

9. Mass Lift - toggle, ranged AoE - lifts all enemies caught in the area of effect, (holds them), dealing moderate smashing DoT.  End cost of the toggle increases over time.

[Rudra]

My idea, just for contrast.

 

Mind Control (New, not to replace exisitng):

Tier 1: Mesmerize: As per Mesmerize.

Tier 2: Dominate: As per Dominate.

Tier 3: Confuse: As per Confuse.

Tier 4: Cloud Senses: To Hit/Accuracy Debuff. (AoE? ST?) Click.

Tier 5: Mass Confuse: As per Mass Hypnosis. Edit: As per... yeah... Mass Confusion.... *face palm*

Tier 6: Nothing To See: PBAoE invisibility. Toggle. (Because in comics they like to make the baddies not see them passing by.)

Tier 7: Mass Control: AoE Hold. Click

Tier 8: Mental Army: As per Phantom Army more or less. Though probably with 4 or 5 phantoms. Click.

Tier 9: Enthrall: Target lieutenant or lower becomes player's combat pet. Teleports to player if maximal distance is exceeded as per MM. Toggle.

 

Telekinesis/Psychokinesis:

I rather like your version more than mine.... *hangs head*

Edited May 19, 2022 by Rudra

[biostem]

My changes in YELLOW:

 

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

My idea, just for contrast.

 

Mind Control (New, not to replace exisitng):

Tier 1: Mesmerize: As per Mesmerize.

Tier 2: Dominate: As per Dominate.

Tier 3: Confuse: As per Confuse.

Tier 4: Cloud Senses: To Hit/Accuracy Debuff. (AoE? ST?) Click. Chance to deal moderate lethal damage, to represent the enemies accidentally attacking their allies.

Tier 5: Mass Confuse: As per Mass Hypnosis.

Tier 6: Nothing To See: PBAoE invisibility. Toggle. (Because in comics they like to make the baddies not see them passing by.)  I would add some sort of placate effect, here.

Tier 7: Mass Control: AoE Hold. Click

Tier 8: Mental Army: As per Phantom Army more or less. Though probably with 4 or 5 phantoms. Click.  If you're going to have more entities summoned, (which I'm fine with), then they shouldn't be invincible like illusion's are.  I'd also give them some psi attacks instead of the energy or elemental blasts like illusion's.

Tier 9: Enthrall: Target lieutenant or lower becomes player's combat pet. Teleports to player if maximal distance is exceeded as per MM. Toggle.

 

[Rudra]

Works for me. I'm not even close to an expert when it comes to controllers/dominators. Don't enjoy playing either.

 

Edit: Except for the placate effect. Nothing to see is already set up to grant invisibility rather than stealth as long as players stay within the power's radius. And then the def bonus if they attack/engage in combat. Placate feels a little over the top to me.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Rudra

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Edit: Except for the placate effect. Nothing to see is already set up to grant invisibility rather than stealth as long as players stay within the power's radius. And then the def bonus if they attack/engage in combat. Placate feels a little over the top to me.

But without some sort of placate effect, casting it in the midst of a group of enemies would basically do nothing.  If you had the placate effect go off upon initial casting of the power, or even have one pulse periodically, enemies who enter the AoE will break off contact from the player characters and ignore them.  I suppose you could have the power provide such a strong perception debuff that enemies won't notice you at all, (similar to the old smoke grenade decimal point bug from around launch)...

[Rudra]

Except I don't see it being activated in the middle of combat, but rather maintained as per Shadowfall/Steamy Mist. If it were activated during combat? The enemies would still know there were enemies there and be trying to find them/attacking where they last saw them. Regardless, I'm not sufficiently familiar with controllers/dominators to say more than that.

 

Also, as an aside? The only reason I suggested Mental Army have possibly 4 or 5 phantoms is because it is now listed as a higher tier than Phantom Army and I was trying to differentiate it in a way that explains the higher tier. I'm fine with pretty much any differentiation. Reduced endurance cost. Longer duration. Faster recharge. Flying blue monkeys delivering tea and crumpets to the character. Don't care, just want a differentiation.

 

Also, instead of psychic psychic attacks, I see the Mental Army phantoms being spawned with random attack animations. They should do psychic damage, yes. They are only in the viewers' minds. The attack type animations should be randomly assigned per summon though, from a list of equal animation time attacks. If possible... which probably isn't... but a body can dream....

 

Edit: Hells, the psychic damage with random animations should be ample differentiation now that I think about it.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Rudra

[Frozen Burn]

I started a thread proposing changes to Mind Control and people were not happy about it.  lol  But the set so desperately needs updating. 

• Mass Confusion needs to have a lower tier and shorter recharge to be on par with other control sets that have mass confusion abilities.  
• I personally would like to see a pet-type option, but I know many hate that.  I am fine either way.
• Mass Hypnosis is mostly useless as teammates always inevitably wake up that extra aggroed mob you just slept.  And even if you use it on the mob the team is attacking - still a waste.  I'd like to see it become a psychic fog "pet" that will put mobs back to sleep after being attacked - similar to Electric Controls sleep patch.
• As a controller set, you get very little containment from this set.  Most other control sets offer immobs, stuns, and holds that all offer damage and containment.  Mind Control only offers holds.  You don't get containment from slept, confused, or terrified mobs (most of what Mind Control is about).  So MC is very lacking in that department compared to other control sets.
• Telekinesis - needs to be anything other than what it is now... or just get rid of it to free up a slot for a pet / foe takeover / or other cool power - maybe something from Penny Yin's abilities?  🙂  

[Rudra]

Mass Hypnosis is a sleep? Whoops. Thought it was an AoE confuse. Sorry.

 

Edit: I'm... going to go edit my list of powers now....

Note: When using a post for data, actually re-read all the powers each time to be certain.... Sometimes I'm just a goombah.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Rudra

[Vince]

I don’t agree with the more drastic changes to mind control above, but I do think it needs some love...

 

Specifically, switching Dominate to be the T2 (swap with Levitate or Mesmerize, idc which) to bring in line with the other control sets. This frees up a power choice spot, if desired.

 

TK being completely revamped. I like the idea of a “singularity-esque” TAoE toggle effect or a TAoE toggle hold without the repel and a larger radius. Obviously, I would expect an insane end cost with this kind of ability and/or a time limit of activation. Either way, it would still be more useful than what it is currently..

 

And lastly, Mass Confusion recharge lowered to 180sec instead of the current 240sec. With this, it would also be nice if Total Domination (and all other T7 AoE holds) was lowered to 180sec from 240sec. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Vince

[arcane]

Think a more equitable balance between the AoE confuse powers would be:

 

Mass Confusion - 180 second recharge

vs

Seeds of Confusion - 120 second recharge OR (IF max targets is adjusted down to 10) 90 second recharge

 

Not sure about Synaptic Overload offhand at the moment. But yeah, I don't think you get to peg Mass Confusion to Seeds of Confusion as an argument without agreeing to look at whether or not Seeds of Confusion is actually balanced in the first place. Which it's obviously not 🙂 

 

Come at me.

 

All this being said, my newish Mind Controller is already slayin' anyway 🙂 pop 5-6 procs in Terrify and juice Mass Confusion with recharge bonuses you'll be fine 🙂

Edited May 20, 2022 by arcane

[Zepp]

All the Control and Support powersets need recharge timers reduced.

[arcane]

Just now, Zepp said:

All the Control and Support powersets need recharge timers reduced.

The implication translated: some top tier sets need to be buffed.

 

Yeah no they don’t.

[golstat2003]

14 hours ago, arcane said:

The implication translated: some top tier sets need to be buffed.

 

Yeah no they don’t.

 

Agreed.

[biostem]

18 hours ago, Zepp said:

All the Control and Support powersets need recharge timers reduced.

I would say this is true for *some* of the AoE holds, but defintiely not every power in every set...