issue 27 Focused Feedback: Architect Entertainment

[EmperorSteele]

So...

 

People are sick of doing the same old content again and again.

 

Their solution to this issue is to mindlessly grind out the same mission over and over again.

 

O_o

 

As for actual feedback, uhm, it looks like Psi melee is still overlooked if you're adding sets?

[kelika2]

I am already building a s/l capped fire brute to farm ITF because of this news.

I mean, back on live they nerfed dreck maps but then  people moved to werewolves

and then they moved to family farming

then demon farming in that destroyed portal corp map cemented before servers went down

we already know theres a handful of people who will change and adapt to this and an army of people in general chat waiting for someone to explain to everyone else the next best thing

 

if we can vote on this, id vote no to removing vet level exp from ae

[GM Impervium]

On 7/11/2022 at 6:36 PM, GM Widower said:

2. BE CONSTRUCTIVE. Going on about how the devs are idiots and you have the One True Vision for the game is not helpful; trying to engage with the changes and the reasons given is.

 

3. BE SUBSTANTIVE. If you want to say how great something is and nothing else, there's a thumbs up react. On the other hand, if all you really want to say is "this whomps! you suck!", the thumbs down react exists.

[Lazarillo]

11 minutes ago, GM Impervium said:

trying to engage with the changes and the reasons given is.

There are no reasons given (though we all know what they are).

(And the doubly amusing thing is, I agree with those reasons, but this change does nothing to address them, while being punitive towards the people who aren't the "problem".)

Edited July 13, 2022 by Lazarillo

[Galactiman]

I don't really have an opinion on the validity of farming as a playstyle, but my major concern is the impact that reduced farming will have on the supply of IOs. Buying IOs with inf is vastly more efficient to buying them with merits, regardless of whether or not you are farming or just playing the game normally, and that is in large part due to the vastly increased supply from the sheer amount of farmers. And even then, in my opinion, completing a build is entirely too grindy. Anything that nerfs farming while not somehow compensating with increased supply by some other means will just result in even more grind for everyone playing the game.

[skoryy]

5 minutes ago, Galactiman said:

I don't really have an opinion on the validity of farming as a playstyle, but my major concern is the impact that reduced farming will have on the supply of IOs.

 

Farming also creates inf.  If farming does decrease, then less IOs and less inf mean less supply and demand.  That's a wash in market prices.

[kelika2]

36 minutes ago, Galactiman said:

I don't really have an opinion on the validity of farming as a playstyle, but my major concern is the impact that reduced farming will have on the supply of IOs.

I didnt even think about this.  95% of the TFs right now are speed TFs.  even if not advertised as speed people go into ungabunga mode and speed anyways.  And I learned that you can burn through thousands of merits pretty quickly with a recent regen alt.  guess its going to be even more speed only tfs if what we theoretically think might be possibly true

[Galactiman]

54 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Farming also creates inf.  If farming does decrease, then less IOs and less inf mean less supply and demand.  That's a wash in market prices.

Pretty sure inf rates are cut in half in AE, whereas drop rates are not. Also, people tend to hoard inf more than than they do unwanted recipes. Also, recipes are exclusively a market item, while inf has dumps outside the market. So no, it won't be a wash. You could see this on live where the supply of inf vastly outstripped the supply of recipes, resulting in some things costing billions of inf. For the casual to medium level player, it was terrible.

[KaizenSoze]

6 minutes ago, Galactiman said:

Pretty sure inf rates are cut in half in AE, whereas drop rates are not. Also, people tend to hoard inf more than than they do unwanted recipes. Also, recipes are exclusively a market item, while inf has dumps outside the market. So no, it won't be a wash. You could see this on live where the supply of inf vastly outstripped the supply of recipes, resulting in some things costing billions of inf. For the casual to medium level player, it was terrible.

It's a possibility, I hope folks will start crafting and converting more on their regular characters.

 

If you're playing regularly, you get quite a few uncommons that can be converted into more interesting pieces.

[lemming]

granted, not a full test suite or anything, but my farmer just picked up everything in a run except for XP.  (Shard, Catalyst, Thread, influence, converter, yada yada)

[Parabola]

42 minutes ago, Galactiman said:

You could see this on live where the supply of inf vastly outstripped the supply of recipes, resulting in some things costing billions of inf. For the casual to medium level player, it was terrible.

That had more to do with the ridiculous amounts of inf many people were sitting on before the market was introduced. They had been playing lv50's for years with nothing to spend it on and then they all wanted the best stuff at the same time with supply starting at zero. It was always going to go the way it did. I would be astonished if a reduction in ae farming caused inflation now and if it does I'm sure the devs will be monitoring it and adjust accordingly.

[Heatstroke]

After thinking about this overnight. This is still a terrible idea. All you are effectively doing is relocating the community. People will just go back to doing the maps in PI that have existed since the inception of the game. All your going to do is move people from Atlas to PI. Thats all. 

[GM Impervium]

They'd get moved anyway, since the Atlas AE building is getting sold to Freedom Corps...

[Perma-Newbie]

One thing this change calls attention to:

 

We need another 50+ radio/newspaper zone, otherwise Grandville and PI are about to get overwhelmed.

 

Might I suggest... Khalisti Wharf

[KaizenSoze]

7 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

One thing this change calls attention to:

 

We need another 50+ radio/newspaper zone, otherwise Grandville and PI are about to get overwhelmed.

 

Might I suggest... Khalisti Wharf

Also, Cimerora also has repeated missions now.

 

And Dark Astoria has had them since live:

 

[Sinestrus]

Right, I never, ever try to complain or even comment on forums, but this made me honestly unhappy. 

 

What is that is bad about letting farmers get Veteran XP or threads and merits? Seriously? Give me a proper reason. 
Because, this makes it near impossible for anyone to grind a new Farmer. 
If you weren't aware, most farmer builds are rather bad in normal content, I really hope you are aware of that.

Not to mention how people that loved to farm, as I do, it's my go-to anxiety reliever, do it because they are having fun.

I know plenty of farmers on this game that are really, really disappointed with this decision. 

 

Please inform me, why this had to be changed, what harm were the farmers doing?

Are you going to alienate a huge part of your community?

Because another part of the community were pissed because they aren't interested in the regular content?

 

Please, don't do this, it will ruin the game for me, let me play the way I want to, not force me into a certain path. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sinestrus
typo again

[ravengale]

Nerfing farmers, huh?  Why? What did farmers do to deserve this?  I love farming.  It helps me pass the time and I always just give away what I earn to other players who need it for builds.  So why punish farmers?  Is someone trying to get farmers to "play"?  Well, our builds are specialized to our craft.... farming, so that is not possible.  I noticed no one did ANYTHING to nerf roleplaying.  Well, let's just call this my roleplaying.  Farming is how I roleplay.   I know people will find ways around this, they always do, but this is also going to drive away some of the die-hards, who have been here since the game was released almost 20 years ago.  Maybe the devs will reconsider this change if enough of us complain enough about it.  Maybe they won't.  Who knows?  What I do know is we will adapt as we always do.  As someone else said, this could quite possibly start bogging down other zones, and/or force people out of AE.  These could all become huge issues for people who don't farm.  Think about it.... 

[KaizenSoze]

38 minutes ago, ravengale said:

Nerfing farmers, huh?  Why? What did farmers do to deserve this?  I love farming.  It helps me pass the time and I always just give away what I earn to other players who need it for builds.  So why punish farmers?  Is someone trying to get farmers to "play"?  Well, our builds are specialized to our craft.... farming, so that is not possible.  I noticed no one did ANYTHING to nerf roleplaying.  Well, let's just call this my roleplaying.  Farming is how I roleplay.   I know people will find ways around this, they always do, but this is also going to drive away some of the die-hards, who have been here since the game was released almost 20 years ago.  Maybe the devs will reconsider this change if enough of us complain enough about it.  Maybe they won't.  Who knows?  What I do know is we will adapt as we always do.  As someone else said, this could quite possibly start bogging down other zones, and/or force people out of AE.  These could all become huge issues for people who don't farm.  Think about it.... 

If this causes there to be a lot more PI radios or other repeatable content teams in different zones. I consider that a good thing.

 

At least, the player would have had to figure out how to get to PI!

 

I had a Apex-Tin mage player who admitted he had been PLed to 50 with Alpha open. They didn't even know how to get to RWZ. I had to go into AP and show him the correct door on the Vanguard building. I don't think he had ever been out of AP.

Edited July 13, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[ravengale]

3 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

If this causes there to be a lot more PI radios or other repeatable content teams in different zones. I consider that a good thing.

 

At least, rhw player would have had to figure out how to get to PI!

 

I had a Apex-Tin mage player who admitted he had been PLed to 50 with Alpha open. They didn't even know how to get to RWZ. I had to go into AP and show him the correct door on the Vanguard building. I don't think he had ever been out of AP.

 

That's unfortunate for the player, but it was his/her choice.  But it's good on you for helping them.

[Sinestrus]

How is this ruining anyone's time?

Farmers don't troll, they stick to the AE's, sell their stuff at reasonable prices. They are having fun, why ruin that for them?
There are PLENTY of normal players that love to sit in a farm and just get farmed to 50, cause after doing content a few times, get's awfully boring.

Where is the harm in letting us Farmers do what we want?

There are still more "Regular" players than there is farmers, the TF's are full, so are iTrials. Content is being played and radio missions are still active.

What reason is there other than "Hah, NO MORE FUN FOR YOU!"
I saw directly that there was some people that just gave a thumbs down, just because somehow, they are happy with farmers getting shafted, is that how this community is now? 
I came here because of it's community being none toxic. 

Don't ruin peoples experiences, let us be able to play the way we want to.

[KaizenSoze]

22 minutes ago, ravengale said:

 

That's unfortunate for the player, but it was his/her choice.  But it's good on you for helping them.

A year ago I would have not understood why this change was made. Now...

 

Putting aside the extreme example I posted above. I run a lot of PUGs, yes I like pain, for reasons I don't not understand. There has been a noticeable uptick in pretty un-knowledgeable players showing up on my TFs. Especially, the 30+ ones. They don't know how to get to different zones.  They don't know how to play as a group or they are just tailing along behind. If this was just happening in Posi 1-2, that's understandable. Even up to Yin levels. But it's happening in Market Crashes, ITFs, iTrials...

 

Mostly, I am talking about the removal the AE from AP and Mercy. You'll still be able to PL newbies to 50 in a different zone, but at least you had to show them how to get to that zone.

[Zappalina]

"Characters at Level 50 can no longer earn experience towards the Veteran Level rewards (Veteran Badges, Incarnate Threads, and Empyrean Merits) from Architect Entertainment content; this does not apply to Incarnate Slot Experience which can still be earned in AE."

 

This is my feedback around this, before I start: Quoting Number 5 posted in the other thread: 5. DON'T GIVE FEEDBACK ON OTHER PEOPLE'S FEEDBACK. You're here to discuss and debate the changes with the devs, not each other. The devs are big people (Huge, even) and can stand up for themselves. From here: .

(Posted the above because - I felt it was necessary)

 

Going to channel my inner Vizzini. I dislike the idea of not being able to earn incarnate XP and rewards in AE, some people dislike doing regular content in the game and grinding those same story lines. Farming is no different same story line over and over.  I think that it will just push people back to farming the Dreck map or other things in content vs. AE eventually. Then it's grinding again - so don't think that's your motive. 

 

I'm not a farmer but have a farmer if needed and have no issues around how people play the game if they like to farm, there are farmers who make farm maps, content and then do time challenges to themselves or in groups, it can help some people to have the familiarity of something like a farm in games. It's how certain players, play the game, they make it what they want it to be.  So I don't think controlling your player base and hate of farming is your motive.

 

A good amount of people in request/LFG when running incarnate groups require a certain +3 or +4 incarnate level shifts, also those are often requested in Tin Mage/Apex. Definitely have to have Alpha open and people can run through the Imperious TF or AE for those shard/threads merits. On live I didn't want to grind to get to play a certain part of the game, that didn't make sense to me. (not talking about other peeps here)  For me - I did not want to spend hours running through PI radio missions/task forces (again & again when I already had been through them) I could see on live the take on running content over and over on a player base, the more time peeps spent in game the longer a subscription would last and the more profit a gaming company could make, but this isn't a for profit. So you wanting to torture your player base isn't your motive.

 

Using the breakdown of merits in the market/buying things with merit/shards as a healthy market is a good thing.   So online gaming market manipulation isn't your motive

 

Question - Do you have some future changes coming that you are going to use the Incarnate Merits with, so you don't want people gathering (possibly hoarding) a bunch of those through farming?

Will incarnate veteran level affect a future planned/goal or update?  

 

 

If you do not have some basis for the change - even if we don't know what it is, behind removing the rewards that makes the game fun for some people. Then I think the developers  should leave it alone.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Zappalina
for clarity

[Cyber Bishop]

23 minutes ago, Zappalina said:

If you do not have some basis for the change - even if we don't know what it is, behind removing the rewards that makes the game fun for some people. Then I think the developers  should leave it alone.

 

1st off I am not a farmer, I do have a farming toon but I don't use her as much as others, I run missions a lot.

Now I have been looking through this post hoping to get this answer (as I am sure may have) but haven't gotten it yet.  Why is this being done

My other question to the Dev's is what happens if the player base drops off too much to support it? We lost this game once before and don't want to lose it again.

Cheers.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Cyber Bishop

[ravengale]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

A year ago I would have not understood why this change was made. Now...

 

Putting aside the extreme example I posted above. I run a lot of PUGs, yes I like pain, for reasons I don't not understand. There has been a noticeable uptick in pretty un-knowledgeable players showing up on my TFs. Especially, the 30+ ones. They don't know how to get to different zones.  They don't know how to play as a group or they are just tailing along behind. If this was just happening in Posi 1-2, that's understandable. Even up to Yin levels. But it's happening in Market Crashes, ITFs, iTrials...

 

Mostly, I am talking about the removal the AE from AP and Mercy. You'll still be able to PL newbies to 50 in a different zone, but at least you had to show them how to get to that zone.

 

So some people don't know their way around, so what?  Not everyone knows how to farm either, or wants to.  This is why it's good to have people like you to help the folks who get a little lost, and people like me to help people who want to farm, but don't know how.  We're all here to help each other.  Nerfing certain parts of the game to force people out and into stuff they don't want to do isn't the answer.  Should we encourage people to try new things? Sure, but not force them.  Tell me how often you respond well to being forced to do something.  Just because you personally think these changes are good, doesn't mean everyone agrees.  We should all be able to experience the game the way we want to.

[skoryy]

I was chatting up General in Brainstorm tonight while laughing like a madman gathering up as many spawns as possible doing more testing and someone brought up a good point.  The aggro changes are gonna make fire farms extra spicy.