issue 27 Focused Feedback: Architect Entertainment

[SaintOfSalt]

3 hours ago, El D said:

 

The end game powers are the incentive (along with the badges and story content). AE was never meant to be, and should not be, a replacement for playing everything else in the rest of the game.

 

Even with this change it's still the best farming option in all of CoH, still the fastest way to get from 1 to 50, and still unlocks Incarnate slots. Requiring that players actually do end game content to earn end game rewards - or do literally anything else the game has to offer via earning vet levels - is as tame a nerf as could be given.

it isn't a replacement to use one toon we spent hours on to farm when we're bored and want to chat, and the end game content of running the same boring trials over and over again that I have to 14 other players to do while getting bitched at for not running it well enough while I chat? Or end game content like the same radio mission's ad nauseum? Also two years of fire brute to be told "Just do this" isn't super helpful 

[Mr. Apocalypse]

I truly enjoy my power leveling of my own toons vet rewards and all, since it helps me get all the sets I need.  These changes look like they are going to put a serious damper on the only reason I play.  I dont understand the need force these types of changes upon us.

 

I for one am not very happy about this, but since I don't have to pay to play I am not going to throw a fit. I will probably just move on to some other game.

[brattycommissar2]

1 hour ago, DarknessEternal said:

Player created content is the only future this game has.  Do not ruin it with these changes.

wouldn't say ONLY future, but it's a dang big part of it because if nothing else it also takes pressure of dev team making proper new content, so making people want to do ae in general less feels like it's just gonna make people not willing to stick around long enough to get the new content the devs make which is a shame since it's good when we get it!

 

AND, this is a game for people who make alts. having to make a new character for every power combination means a lot of testing and tinkering for all these character concepts and ideas and i know people who have like dozens and in some cases over a hundred different characters often with most being level 50--- farming lets people use all these characters in high end stuff and doesn't restrict people to slower stuff that's less rewarding and stuff by comparison.

 

like i get the desire to have people play all the non-ae and not-just-end-game content there is, but honestly it feels like the better way to do that would be to make it not all need ouro to do. know for a fact that myself and like everyone i play with would be all over things like making all arcs be playable at max level, or stuff like radios scaling up in all zones with you, or preferably incarnate radios, and the like!

 

lowering barrier to 'proper content' and or increasing rewards for 'proper content' feels a better way to approach the 'farming issue' to me than making something that for some people make the game still worth playing worse.

[kingsmidgens]

It's too late to make this change.  If the server came live with no AE?  Okay.

At this point, it's a bad idea to push out existing players from the game while reducing avenues for new players to pick up and compete in the game in an effort to please a minority.

Vet levels in particular are of questionable value to begin with and already cap at 99 in terms of non-bragging rights rewards.  Are you going to take away the (literal) thousands of vet levels some people have farmed in AE on specific characters?  How will new people react to seeing that and hearing they can't realistically do it anymore?

Add new content and new rewards in an effort to inspire people to leave AE.  AEther Particles, for instance, are a great and I'd say healthy addition to the game.  Don't remove or reduce existing rewards.

Edited July 13, 2022 by kingsmidgens
Aether Particles, not Tokens

[ScarySai]

I understand where HC is coming from with the changes, but I'm still not a fan at all.

[DawL]

6 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

If I had to guess, to encourage diversity of content at max level.  So everyone isn't doing the same content over and over.  There will always be a "best content" for whatever your goal is.  But if one thing, AE farms, are the best at EVERYTHING then that's all people do and it kinda makes everything else redundant.  Makes the game world feel small

Diversity of content is already there. Every farmer I personally know (self included) does more than just farming. Not with our farmers, per se, but with our other characters.

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, 723wolf said:

If I could recommend a change to this while still keeping the spirit of the change, it would be to cap vet xp gain at  level 10 in AE content. This should be more than plenty boost to new players obtaining their first important incarnates.

I think this is a reasonable middle ground.  Going from unlimited vet levels in AE to ZERO feels like a huge nerf.

 

I personally know several people who have told me (I guess they could be lying, but why?) that they like to farm their new 50's for just a few (10-15) vet levels so that they don't feel completely useless when they start doing iTrials.  They don't like the feeling of "Oh, now I'm 50 and get to do incarnate content and feel like I'm level 1 all over again."

[Ukase]

• Characters at Level 50 can no longer earn experience towards the Veteran Level rewards (Veteran Badges, Incarnate Threads, and Empyrean Merits) from Architect Entertainment content; this does not apply to Incarnate Slot Experience which can still be earned in AE.
  
  
  So...why? Why would you do this? 
  I think you have it backwards. Eliminate XP for those under level 50. Why would you nerf our vet levels in AE? Doesn't make any sense to me. Are you trying to push the farmers out of AE? Why? To what end? What is it that you're after here? I think I know, but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. 

[BurtHutt]

7 hours ago, Sovera said:

I don't see why this felt like a thing that code hours had to be spent on. We can already level to 50 in the AE, so, what's the reasoning in preventing players from continuing to grind levels after 50? Forcing people to leave the AE at 50 to grind max incarnates to go back to farming?

 

I speak as someone who neither farms nor PLs, or even uses the AE at all.

This. I rarely farm but I see a ton of people do. This will not go over well with them which is concerning since the playerbase is dwindling. 

 

I also have to agree and wonder why this was done. It seems like there are a lot of odd adds on this page.

 

Finally, again, I'd like to thank the Devs for all they do. You do amazing work but I wanted to provide my honest feedback.

[Number Six]

Quote

But I want them to tell me why

 

We are planning to do some dev diaries to explore the reasoning behind some of the more controversial items. However, we wanted to give players a chance to give their initial reactions before being influenced by those. Keep an eye out.

[Lazarillo]

7 minutes ago, Number Six said:

However, we wanted to give players a chance to give their initial reactions before being influenced by those.

Is there anything to react to then, besides just assuming that reasoning?  Incarnate XP is off in AE.  Testing done, no?

[GM Impervium]

Ahem. (Not the two who posted before me, but others who've had their posts removed)
 

On 7/11/2022 at 6:36 PM, GM Widower said:

5. DON'T GIVE FEEDBACK ON OTHER PEOPLE'S FEEDBACK. You're here to discuss and debate the changes with the devs, not each other. The devs are big people (Huge, even) and can stand up for themselves.

Edited July 13, 2022 by GM Impervium

[Super Atom]

/those/ changes are bad, someone is at veteran level 12k so it's too late already, you're just taking away stuff people like to do, even if i think it's boring.

[Chrono-Bot]

I'm not looking forward to having to change all the powers for my custom enemies.

[ShadowflareXV]

In response to the removal of XP post 50 I suggest one of two things:

• Dev's Choice arcs should still award EXP post 50.
• Alternatively, change AE maps to award patrol EXP up to the standard cap.

The second change allows people to "train" in the simulator but you still have to put that to the test in "real world" applications to earn the EXP.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by ShadowflareXV
Corrected by below post

[Blackfeather]

1 minute ago, ShadowflareXV said:

In response to the removal of XP post 50 I suggest one of two things:

• Dev's Choice arcs should still award EXP post 50.
• Alternatively, change AE maps to award patrol EXP up to the standard cap.

The second change allows people to "train" in the simulator but you still have to put that to the test in "real world" applications to earn the EXP.

 

 

9 hours ago, The Curator said:

Architect Entertainment

• Characters at Level 50 can no longer earn experience towards the Veteran Level rewards (Veteran Badges, Incarnate Threads, and Empyrean Merits) from Architect Entertainment content; this does not apply to Incarnate Slot Experience which can still be earned in AE.
• This change does not apply to Developer's Choice arcs, which have always gives full rewards and will continue to do so.
• Fixed a bug with Experience Boosters granting too much experience in non-Dev Choice AE missions. 1.5XP was giving double XP and 2XP was giving triple XP. These have been corrected to the intended 1.5x and 2x, respectively.

[LastHumanSoldier]

Can't we just move back to the Story Arc maps that are good for farming?

 

[Logansan]

This does really seem like a pointless change, if may reduce the time many people spend farming in the AE, but it doesn't mean those same people will now suddenly decide to spend that same amount of time grouping with others outside of the AE. They are more likely to just greatly decrease their time playing or just stop playing at all.

 

If the game was still new or we were at the beginning of a great expansion of new players starting the game then maybe there would be a point, but that's not the case.

 

 

[lemming]

Quote

Characters at Level 50 can no longer earn experience towards the Veteran Level rewards (Veteran Badges, Incarnate Threads, and Empyrean Merits) from Architect Entertainment content; this does not apply to Incarnate Slot Experience which can still be earned in AE.

I'm not sure why this change to no xp toward Vet levels in AE is needed.   I don't think it will have any real impact on me though.

[Widower]

1 hour ago, GM Impervium said:

Ahem. (Not the two who posted before me, but others who've had their posts removed)
 

Just as an addendum: this is a feedback thread, not a guessing game of the devs' motivations.

[Gadzookery]

Just gonna add my voice on top of a pile but yeah, bad change. I just don't understand why? Because it doesn't really detract from anything. Its not really helping a problem because its not really a problem unless you personally believe people should play a specific way but like that's a personal belief. If the reasoning is to incentivise farmers to gain vet levels normally by teaming, that's not gonna happen. They're just gonna choose not to play. Because the reason farmers are farmers is that they're people who wanna play but have no time. Which will then cause a domino effect as there'll be no farmers for those that want a quick powerlevel aka those that still play the game but wanna get out of the terrible teens and get to the good powers, so they'll give up on an alt and choose not to play etc.

Just keep it how it is.

 

I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind it and need clarification because I'm just guessing the reasoning and they all don't make sense to me.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Gadzookery

[America's Angel]

11 hours ago, SaintOfSalt said:

I appreciate you for the Fight Club Angel and like you but that doesn't change the fact of who's going to want to? yes, we CAN but with no vet levels you feel like you're stuck at 50. On top of that the changes to damage type and the no custom xp? So now we have to all fix our characters just to farm people who in turn get something and we don't? I met my GF through farming and built a community around it and now they tell me "We don't want you anymore" it's a spit in the face.  I get you want people to do Itrials so do I but how about incentives instead of nerfs?

 

I don't especially hate/love the AE changes. The reason for my post was just to reassure players that they can still use fire farms in AE to farm influence, powerlevel from 1-50, and unlock incarnate slots. (Only thing that's been removed is vet levels.)

 

10 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

The AE should not be the end all be all source of all resources in the game. Prior to Page 4, it was.

 

You can't get aether in AE. So this line of reasoning no longer works to justify the change.

 

IMO vet levels should be left in the AE so players can "complete" their characters (i.e. T4 their incarnates) via farming. But the emp>merit conversion at merit vendors should be removed. (And any regular content which gives emp merits, should also now have the option of regular merits as an alternative.)

 

This would stop merit farming in  the AE, whilst still allowing players to "complete" their characters by AE farming.

 

(It would also remove the worst part of this change - people who play custom AE story missions at 50 now getting no xp post-50.)

Edited July 13, 2022 by America's Angel

[ForeverLaxx]

I don't farm and I don't care if people farm, but I don't really see the point of removing Vet XP from AE. I know that "it's been this way for a long time" isn't a strong defense against a change if the thing being changed is ultimately detrimental to the growth/longevity of a game, but what harm is this actually doing? Farming has already been hit from multiple angles, and I suppose it being a one-stop-shop for everything you could need (even if it's not the most efficient at specific things, such as influence gain) may be a reason... but you've already got a ton of people who have ran their characters through farms/PL sessions for Vet Levels and this would just needlessly create a chasm between those who have been here for years taking advantage of the AE and those who only came in a few months ago/are yet to arrive.

 

I'm not generally in favor of changes that create a Haves vs Have Nots scenario.

 

That said, I do get a kick out of every change that even tangentially touches farming getting slammed with 6-12 people I never see on the forums at any other point. I do agree with them (this time) that this change just seems misguided and serves no purpose other than to slow players down and restrict options. I don't agree that it will "kill the game" though and I think taking that stance is an absurdist extreme.

[Steam_InGen]

14 hours ago, The Curator said:

Architect Entertainment

• Characters at Level 50 can no longer earn experience towards the Veteran Level rewards (Veteran Badges, Incarnate Threads, and Empyrean Merits) from Architect Entertainment content; this does not apply to Incarnate Slot Experience which can still be earned in AE.
• This change does not apply to Developer's Choice arcs, which have always gives full rewards and will continue to do so.
• Fixed a bug with Experience Boosters granting too much experience in non-Dev Choice AE missions. 1.5XP was giving double XP and 2XP was giving triple XP. These have been corrected to the intended 1.5x and 2x, respectively.

Custom Enemy Changes

• Power point values for all Custom Enemy powers have been normalized. Some powersets in the same category were set below standard point values and some were set above.
• This means existing AE arcs may need adjusting if any custom enemies were using the bare-minimum power selection for max rewards with powersets that were above the standard values for that type.
• Custom Enemy powers that require the target be grounded are no longer calculated as ranged attacks for point value purposes.
• All Custom Enemy ranged attacks have a minimum range of 80ft.

 

• Any custom enemies that are using advanced power customization will give no rewards. This restriction was required in order to prevent farms from being created using only enemies with broken attack chains.

 

 

Seems Homecoming has also gone the way of live and the other servers. Really is a sad day, mixing in a bunch of nice qol stuff and even some new things to cover some really bad stuff. The only reason I played on this server is cause they supported playing how you wanted with the option to play the other content if you had the time and motivation to. The boldened ones are the reason I stopped playing live, and avoid the other CoH options.  I get that the original idea of AE was to create your own content and not exploit the game, and I feel it's done that wonderfully. Just because people have found a way to stream line and make the game as easy as possible, doesn't mean they are exploiting it. What of the people who actually make really cool and good AE content for the sake of constructing a story for their favorite toon? Well they just play out their toons history for fun now? That only works a few times before you feel like your wasting your time, But I digress. 

 

I suppose this had to happen sometime, when looking at the numbers I'm sure it seems most people do AE at some point for ease of use and time constrains and for the peeps that like to do nothing but grind out the same content over and over again cause they like to do it and get rewarded for their time, such as myself, will have to change. The other content is fun and all, but most days I just like to log on, run a few solo AE farms, maybe get a new toon to 50, build up a small team to help them with their current projects. Sometimes even run a TF or SF if I'm feeling in the mood, some days even I just run all tfs in a row for the merits. Incarnate trials are long require someone who one is good at instructing and leading, can build up a large number of people to run those things. There are fewer people that can do that than you think.  Guess I'll put my build crafting on hold for now, and just log on periodontally play my fun toons when I get the CoH itch. Since my favorite toons are all 50 no chance of them getting deleted.

 

tl:dr

Overall these changes will change what AE is and not for the better, it'll go the way of live, became another part of the game that sees little to no activity, I was there at the end, those

some 3000 years ago. (LotR ref.) As I've always said, there are levels of survival I'm willing to accept. You may change the farming normal but not totally get rid of it. The game will still be fun to play with my favorite toons, so I guess I'll just wreak face less as often. Cheers  

 

- Signed Steam 

[Steam_InGen]

7 hours ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

I truly enjoy my power leveling of my own toons vet rewards and all, since it helps me get all the sets I need.  These changes look like they are going to put a serious damper on the only reason I play.  I dont understand the need force these types of changes upon us.

 

I for one am not very happy about this, but since I don't have to pay to play I am not going to throw a fit. I will probably just move on to some other game.

 

I guess a silver lining is The winter IOs will drop in price. less people needing fire def and resist. 😄