Good Primary/Secondary Same Theme Pairings

[longdayinrehab]

Just curious what primary/secondary pairings with the same theme are considered complimentary to each other. I've seen Fire/Fire mentioned, but are there other matching primary/secondary powersets that work especially well together?

[oedipus_tex]

Fire/Fire and Dark/Dark are the two that stick out to me as especially strong.

 

 

If I had to comment on the others:

• Plant/Thorns is fine. Thematic, pretty cool looking. There are probably better combos for Plant but Thorny is elevated by being paired with such a strong primary.
• Ice/Icey has some minor synergy. Very heavy on the endurance bar. Icey is a pretty vanilla set without a lot going on, so I think Ice Control is better served with a secondary that brings some added survivability.
• Gravity doesn't have a natural pairing, but I suppose Energy can do. This is a combo I don't particularly favor at all. Like all things, someone can probably make it work, and there could be a player for who this is the favorite combo, but it's not mine, due to competing combo mechanics in each set.
  • If you assume Radiation is the pair with Gravity, things are a little better.
• Mind/Psi is another one that is "fine." They are a little awkward played together but it's not a wreck.
• Elec/Elec are two sets with minor synergy. Personally I think Electric Control really requires a secondary with Power Boost (Dark, Icey, Earth, or Energy) or at a minimum some kind of sustainability (Psi, maybe Savage or Rad). Electric Assault is one of my least personal favorite sets in the game, so that colors my perception.
• Earth/Earth is a favorite for some people. Earth Assault has limited ranged options and can take some getting used to, but it does have pretty good AoE and some heavy hitters, along with Power Up to extend mezz times. 

 

 

If I was forced to pair each set off with its best pairings:

• Plant: Psi, Savage, Fire, Dark, or Rad
• Dark: Psi, Savage, Fire, Dark, or Rad
• Fire: Fire or Psi (still fine with Dark, Rad, Savage)
• Ice: Dark, Fire, or Psi
• Gravity: Dark, Psi, or Fire
• Mind: Fire, Savage, or Dark
• Electric: Psi or Dark
• Earth: Psi, Savage, Fire, Dark, or Rad

 

Martial, Icey, Electric, Thorny, and Energy don't appear on my list because I consider them generally a step down from the other sets. Keep in mind the actual differential between the sets isn't so huge you can't still play the less optimal ones tho. My biggest beef with a few of them is they are so baseline they don't have that much to hold my interest. 

 

That list is pretty arbitrary and what you may notice from it is several sets show up again and again. Like all things in this game of course, if you find you love something else, play that. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[longdayinrehab]

Wow, thank you so much for your detailed reply! I appreciate you going the extra mile and posting your best pairings as well.

[biostem]

On 7/21/2022 at 5:08 PM, longdayinrehab said:

Just curious what primary/secondary pairings with the same theme are considered complimentary to each other.

I've had good success with my energy/energy stalker.  I've also had a lot of fun with my bio/savage and radiation/savage tankers.  I'm interpreting your use of the word "theme" a little looser for the latter 2 examples.  That being said, a nature/archery defender can be both thematic and effective.  A necro/dark mastermind is nothing to sneeze at, either.

[TygerDarkstorm]

39 minutes ago, biostem said:

I've had good success with my energy/energy stalker.  I've also had a lot of fun with my bio/savage and radiation/savage tankers.  I'm interpreting your use of the word "theme" a little looser for the latter 2 examples.  That being said, a nature/archery defender can be both thematic and effective.  A necro/dark mastermind is nothing to sneeze at, either.

*whispers* this is the dominator forums. 😛

[biostem]

Just now, TygerDarkstorm said:

*whispers* this is the dominator forums. 😛

*bows head in shame*  Right you are.

[TygerDarkstorm]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

*bows head in shame*  Right you are.

An energy control set would be kinda awesome though, ngl. And radiation control.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

An energy control set would be kinda awesome though, ngl. And radiation control.

Gravity/energy is very close.  Grav/dark is also excellent.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Ice / ice / ice was solid even before the buffs to ice control currently on beta. It should be even stronger the buffs currently on beta go live. There are several areas of substantial synergy, both on the defensive and offensive side. 

 

The one outstanding attribute of these sets in tandem is how mobs move and attack very very slowly, which helps both offense and defense. Hoarfrost helps to deal better with tough alphas and occasional big hits that will happen even when mobs are slowed to a crawl.  

Edited July 24, 2022 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Toxurion]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:20 PM, oedipus_tex said:

• Gravity doesn't have a natural pairing, but I suppose Energy can do. This is a combo I don't particularly favor at all. Like all things, someone can probably make it work, and there could be a player for who this is the favorite combo, but it's not mine, due to competing combo mechanics in each set.

 

I was going to say, "Hey, I love Grav/Energy!" but then I realized that my toon only has 4 Grav powers at 50, and I'd drop Lift if I could. I dislike not having the ST Hold at T2 : (

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Lift has the best DPA in the absence of procs of any T1 or T2 in a dom primary. It's a good place for pick up set bonuses and it has higher DPA than most single target attacks in assault secondaries. It also has one of the most effective soft controls of any power in a dom primary or secondary. As well, having a high DPA attack with a short cast time and on a short recharge tends to improve single target damage for the whole build. Basically, just remove the weakest single target attack you would have taken from your secondary, replace it with lift, and you have a dom that does more damage than it would have otherwise. "Lift is a gift", in a sense. 

 

The main challenge facing gravity doms is a relatively weak set of AOE controls in the primary. The unusually strong pet doesn't quite make up for that weakness. Energy assault has so-so AOE and it doesn't add to AOE controls in a reliable way, so it doesn't mesh well with gravity control. Energy assault probably works better with a primary that offers good AOE controls and/or a mastery that boost AOE controls / damage.

 

Sets that could mesh well with gravity control (and could easily be thematic) include psi assault and earth assault. Psi assault doesn't add much in the way of AOE control because the stun in psy shockwave doesn't reliably activate and it's just mag 2. But, it provides survivability through drain psyche, which helps to mitigate problems with weaker AOE controls. Also, the -50% recharge in psy shockwave can debuff up to 16 mobs at once and it slows down incoming damage quite a bit.

 

Earth assault has two 10-target-maximum AOE attack powers that knock down mobs (and the T9 also stuns mobs, even if only at mag 2). The AOE attacks in earth assault help considerably to mitigate the AOE control limitations of gravity control. Also, lift provides the fourth single target attack on a short recharge that earth assault needs to have a smoother single target attack chain. Finally, the opportunities for force feedback +recharge IOs in earth assault improves gravity's AOE controls by making them more frequently available. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by EnjoyTheJourney

[TygerDarkstorm]

4 hours ago, Toxurion said:

 

I was going to say, "Hey, I love Grav/Energy!" but then I realized that my toon only has 4 Grav powers at 50, and I'd drop Lift if I could. I dislike not having the ST Hold at T2 : (

It's a fun combo for sure, but it can quickly end up with too many options to play with, especially when trying to utilize Impact and the new energy mechanic.

 

Edit: Also, thank you @EnjoyTheJourney for the new alt idea. I've been stuck on how I wanted to pair /earth and grav/earth sounds like it could be a pretty fun combo.

Edited July 25, 2022 by TygerDarkstorm

[Toxurion]

1 hour ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

Lift has the best DPA in the absence of procs of any T1 or T2 in a dom primary.

 

I find the issue is that its hard to compete with my rotation in /energy. Think thats the problem with Gravity on Dom I suppose, it's damage I find is more welcome on my controller.

[EnjoyTheJourney]

1 hour ago, Toxurion said:

 

I find the issue is that its hard to compete with my rotation in /energy. Think thats the problem with Gravity on Dom I suppose, it's damage I find is more welcome on my controller.

 

If you check the DPA on lift against your single target power choices in energy assault you'll realize that lift has higher DPA than power bolt, bone smasher, power push, and power blast. Also, given the longer recharge of the most damaging single target powers in energy assault, it helps quite a bit to smooth out your single target attack chain to have lift because it has such a short recharge time and such a fast casting time. If you'd like to make your grav / energy dom stronger, respec to remove the weakest single target power in your secondary and use those slots for lift instead; single target damage will probably go up quite noticeably once you do that. 

 

In fact, lift has higher DPA than the lower DPA powers in any dominator secondary. You can check Uberguy's city of data to verify that, if you'd like. Here's the link ... https://cod.uberguy.net/html/archetype.html?at=dominator

 

For single target damage gravity / energy doms have excellent potential because the T7, T8, and T9 in energy assault are top tier single target damage powers (with energy focus engaged, of course) and lift is a top tier addition to those powers; singularity is worth taking for virtually any gravity dom build and it adds even further to already excellent single target damage. Where gravity control and energy assault doms tend to lag many other dom powerset combinations is in their AOE controls and AOE damage. 

 

Lift is not a problem for gravity control doms. It's one of the best powers in the set. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Toxurion]

1 hour ago, EnjoyTheJourney said:

 

If you check the DPA on lift against your single target power choices in energy assault you'll realize that lift has higher DPA than power bolt, bone smasher, power push, and power blast.

 

That's a good observation, however the only one of these powers I use is Bone Crusher for some set bonuses and the chance to stun. Bolt remains unslotted, and I dont use Push or Blast. I haven't checked my rotation in a while but I don't think I've really needed any extra filler, except maybe in a single target chain but that would be TBD. Lift is probably better suited for a different secondary, or a set build that accommodates another ranged set as then it would be there for when I need it.

[Ceejer]

Earth/Earth/Mace is good. Slotting it with the FF +rech can help give it permadom, making it great.

 

Dark/Dark/Dark is a sight to behold. The journey to 50 is to be enjoyed. Once slotted up at 50, you might be thinking something like

 

"Instead of a Dark Lord, you would have a queen, not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Tempestuous as the sea, and stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me and despair!"

 

I normally target the Umbra Beast pet, throw attacks and let the AI sort them out.

[FUBARczar]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:20 AM, oedipus_tex said:

 

If I were to make a Dominator with Control Set X, these are the Assault Sets I would consider:

• Dark: Psi, Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Earth: Psi, Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Electric: Psi, Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Fire: Psi, Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Gravity: Psi, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Ice: Psi, Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Mind: Savage, Dark,,,,,,,, or Rad
• Plant: Any are possible

*(Fire Assault gets honorable mention as a choice for any Hover-Dom)

 

 

*fixed

[mrdeeds7]

I'm playing my first Dom as Grav/Energy right now in spite of the criticism. I have to say of all the power combinations in the game, it's one that just feels the most powerful regardless of the results. You're blasting beams out of your hands, throwing desks, and flinging people into the sky, and the EM powers hit hard. Great fun.  

[capricorpse]

5 hours ago, mrdeeds7 said:

I'm playing my first Dom as Grav/Energy right now in spite of the criticism. I have to say of all the power combinations in the game, it's one that just feels the most powerful regardless of the results. You're blasting beams out of your hands, throwing desks, and flinging people into the sky, and the EM powers hit hard. Great fun.  

 

I came here to say this - it may not be optimal but it's a great combo with strong enemy repositioning and stuns.  Lift will never stop being funny to me.  Plus it does great damage and is the only good use for Knockback enhancements imo.  

 

However now with the new update, I'm loving my Gravity/Sonic dominator!  The effects animations are really nice together, it looks almost like a gravity blast set.  I'm running him as a magnetism character and it's one of my favorites for evoking that.  

[ChromeWeasel]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:54 PM, FUBARczar said:

 

*fixed

 

Is this because /Rad is such a strong set?

[FUBARczar]

7 hours ago, ChromeWeasel said:

 

Is this because /Rad is such a strong set?

It's because Psi had Drain Psyche, Dark has Life Drain and Rad has Radiation Siphon and is a decent set.  Fire Assault is a strong range set.

[ThrillMill]

I personally love pairing any Dom Primary that has a PBAoE Toggle (Ice, Fire, Elec) with Stone Assault. Not only are the Melee Attacks top notch and graphically powerful; Stone Assault gives you access to Power Boost (tm). PB then opens up the ability to melee with a high degree of safety as it boosts not only your controls and secondary effects (which is usually enough to keep ya upright) but also your Defensive %'s! So what I'll typically do is take "Unleash Potential" from the "Force of Will" Pool, boost it with PB and it layers on top of my other Defensive #'s to put me over the softcap to most positions.

[VULCAN]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:20 AM, oedipus_tex said:

 

Martial, Icey, Electric, Thorny, and Energy don't appear on my list because I consider them generally a step down from the other sets. Keep in mind the actual differential between the sets isn't so huge you can't still play the less optimal ones tho. My biggest beef with a few of them is they are so baseline they don't have that much to hold my interest. 

 

 

Oedipus may I ask you to explain why you consider, lets say energy for example , as weaker ?
When I look the stats it does tremendous damages and if I compare it to fire that you bring up in many pairing, I think that energy as a better damaging power on single targets. 
So, I am questionning  myself.