What to do with Empyrean Merits in the future...

[Paragon Vanguard]

36 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

Yeah I don't see where you're getting cognitive dissonance from this. There have been pages and pages of people explaining this--there's nothing inconsistent about it. People are objecting to their preferred playstyle getting devalued. The fact that similar rewards are available through other methods is absolutely not the point.

 

Let's look at an extreme hypothetical example: All merit rewards are removed from pve and shifted to pvp. You get a daily quota from killing a certain number of players in each zone and the arena. Now, given the nature of this community, imagine the rage from players whose incentives are being shifted over to an activity that they vehemently oppose. Then you look at them as if they are confused because they explicitly say that they don't want to pvp even though they are clearly assuming that the merit rewards they want would be most manifest there. So what if they would be most manifest there?

Nail on head. Telling me I can get the same amount of merits from other sources, that I don't particularly wish to play, is exactly like this. If I can get the same amount from other sources, then why bother changing sources? Maybe curve the behavior that is deemed poor behavior or damaging behavior. Find a fix for it, as it isn't really intentional bad behavior. This fix is not just hitting one group, it blankets many different play styles and rewards one. I don't farm, yet I know good players who do simply so they can meet the play they want and enjoy the game, which is what the game is meant for. I do not do trials, because people really dont do trials, they simply.....farm them. Yet getting those Emp Merits every so often and change them to reward merits really helps with building my sets, even if it is slower than others. 
I am cool with PvP for Emp or just merits, not allowing either from any other source. Hey, its slow in PvP zones and this would get more people PvP'ing, apparently solving 2 problems, right? I use to PvP all the time when this was live, so yeah, let's solve the PvP problem. I am sure those in favor of dissolving other's play style would be okay with that. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Paragon Vanguard

[tidge]

For me: It's NOT the dissonance that a player is upset about loosing a reward, it's the dissonance about what is that reward actually being used for?

 

48 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Let's look at an extreme hypothetical example: All merit rewards are removed from pve and shifted to pvp.

 

There already exist rewards that only come from PVP, and I have not observed any outcry from players that this is unfair.

 

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

There already exist rewards that only come from PVP, and I have not observed any outcry from players that this is unfair.

Because those rewards didn't get added in conjunction with them being removed from some other aspect of the game. Also you must've been oblivious to the history of pvp in this game: the inclusion of badges in pvp zones in order to lure players in there was very unpopular with a lot of people. 

[SwitchFade]

9 hours ago, battlewraith said:

 

Yeah I don't see where you're getting cognitive dissonance from this. There have been pages and pages of people explaining this--there's nothing inconsistent about it. People are objecting to their preferred playstyle getting devalued. The fact that similar rewards are available through other methods is absolutely not the point.

 

Let's look at an extreme hypothetical example: All merit rewards are removed from pve and shifted to pvp. You get a daily quota from killing a certain number of players in each zone and the arena. Now, given the nature of this community, imagine the rage from players whose incentives are being shifted over to an activity that they vehemently oppose. Then you look at them as if they are confused because they explicitly say that they don't want to pvp even though they are clearly assuming that the merit rewards they want would be most manifest there. So what if they would be most manifest there?

The cognitive dissonance that @arcane spoke of is when farmers, who can generate currency orders of magnitude greater than any other way of playing, are also the ones complaining that they need the conversion to make more currency, because... Can't afford stuffs.

 

Farming, which generates 2-4 million inf per minute on average, which is 120-240 .million per hour, is enough to fully min max any build in 3-5 hours.

 

That's 500m-1b inf.

 

Without bothering to convert anything or craft anything. Just farm, type AH and buy every single IO you need. No marketing, no converting, no crafting. Pure currency generation.

 

FURTHER, multiboxing and farming emps means one went well past 50 which doubles the amount of generated currency because of the time spent farming, before emps conversion.

 

So. Not one single farmer needs emp conversion to afford fully kitting a build. That's the dissonance. In fact, while I said its not optimal, disallowing emp to merit will reduce inflation, keep equilibrium prices stable and diversify market interaction in healthy ways.

 

And, marketing might move currency around, but it actually causes deflation and lowers equilibrium price. Farming does not, it always causes inflation and an average increase in the equilibrium price of a basket of goods.

 

Like I said, I favor letting the conversion remain, at a rate of 1 emp per 48 hour limit, so everyone can "play their way," which is often a thinly veiled attempt to justify taking advantage of something that DOES cause detriment for the collective, for selfish reasons.

Edited August 18, 2022 by SwitchFade

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

The cognitive dissonance that @arcane spoke of is when farmers, who can generate currency orders of magnitude greater than any other way of playing, are also the ones complaining that they need the conversion to make more currency, because... Can't afford stuffs.

 

Which is a strawman. I already responded to that comment but it didn't go over well and the mods cut several comments from this thread.

 

I don't think dedicated farmers/afk farmers/etc. are complaining about this change. They can afford whatever they want, as can the people who routinely make a killing on the market. So this supposed contradiction is an unlikely speculation to begin with.

 

Speaking for myself, I like to make a new character, get it to 50, get it enhanced, and then run TFs or trials or whatever. Farming is a means to an end. I don't do it for fun and I don't look to grind a huge stockpile of resources (and I don't have any afk farmers). I do it as much as necessary to get the new character ready. The nice thing about the emp conversions is that they lessened the amount of time that I would need to spend farming to set a new character up and I would get them incidentally while doing non-farm content. All this nerf does is make people like me have to spend more time farming to make up for the deficit.

 

4 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

And, marketing might move currency around, but it actually causes deflation and lowers equilibrium price. Farming does not, it always causes inflation and an average increase in the equilibrium price of a basket of goods.

 

And this just seems like straight up bullshit. The trend of farming emps through power leveling disposable characters may be recent (which I doubt), but the merit conversion and farming in general has been around for as long as the server has. If farming always causes inflation--where the hell is it? I'm not seeing major inflation anywhere. Other people have pointed this out as well.

 

4 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Like I said, I favor letting the conversion remain, at a rate of 1 emp per 48 hour limit, so everyone can "play their way," which is often a thinly veiled attempt to justify taking advantage of something that DOES cause detriment for the collective, for selfish reasons.

 

Yeah nothing's more selfish than playing the game the way you enjoy and hypothetically putting some aspect of the market at risk of something. You can feel the tension, as if this inflationary boogyman was about to jump out at any moment. But it is real nice of your lordship to suggest that people impacted by this nerf get tossed a bone every couple of days so that they can "play their way." What a pillar of the community.

[ShardWarrior]

4 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Speaking for myself, I like to make a new character, get it to 50, get it enhanced, and then run TFs or trials or whatever. Farming is a means to an end. I don't do it for fun and I don't look to grind a huge stockpile of resources (and I don't have any afk farmers). I do it as much as necessary to get the new character ready. The nice thing about the emp conversions is that they lessened the amount of time that I would need to spend farming to set a new character up and I would get them incidentally while doing non-farm content. All this nerf does is make people like me have to spend more time farming to make up for the deficit.

 

Same thing for me.  I have no AFK farmers nor do I have vast stockpiles of resources.  Losing out on the conversion is just going to make me farm more to make up for that loss. 

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Same thing for me.  I have no AFK farmers nor do I have vast stockpiles of resources.  Losing out on the conversion is just going to make me farm more to make up for that loss. 

If farming with a multibox takes 4-5 hours to get that toon from 1-50, you will have 500m-1b inf once the toon hits 50.

 

That's a full build, no emp conversion needed and we're right back at the beginning.

 

Look, as I said I am in favor of keeping it but with a time limit, but for there to actually be a healthy debate, argent's have to make sense, right?

 

If you door sit that alt, and your fire farmer runs, nonafk of course, how is it you DON'T have enough currency by the end of the power level?

 

If you can ding 50 faster than 4-5 hours farming in AH, that's absolutely not a supporting argument for not having cash, it's a actually proof and support for the argument that AH has too high xp reward scaling. And, if you go beyond 50 to vet emps, that means you earned currency greater than the supposed "not enough" from the time it took to run that door sitter 1-50, back to the fact you have enough without emps.

 

I'm all for compromise, but my hero, we gots to have us some kinda logics 'N shit, neh?

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by SwitchFade

[SwitchFade]

5 hours ago, battlewraith said:

 

Which is a strawman. I already responded to that comment but it didn't go over well and the mods cut several comments from this thread.

 

I don't think dedicated farmers/afk farmers/etc. are complaining about this change. They can afford whatever they want, as can the people who routinely make a killing on the market. So this supposed contradiction is an unlikely speculation to begin with.

 

Speaking for myself, I like to make a new character, get it to 50, get it enhanced, and then run TFs or trials or whatever. Farming is a means to an end. I don't do it for fun and I don't look to grind a huge stockpile of resources (and I don't have any afk farmers). I do it as much as necessary to get the new character ready. The nice thing about the emp conversions is that they lessened the amount of time that I would need to spend farming to set a new character up and I would get them incidentally while doing non-farm content. All this nerf does is make people like me have to spend more time farming to make up for the deficit.

 

 

And this just seems like straight up bullshit. The trend of farming emps through power leveling disposable characters may be recent (which I doubt), but the merit conversion and farming in general has been around for as long as the server has. If farming always causes inflation--where the hell is it? I'm not seeing major inflation anywhere. Other people have pointed this out as well.

 

 

Yeah nothing's more selfish than playing the game the way you enjoy and hypothetically putting some aspect of the market at risk of something. You can feel the tension, as if this inflationary boogyman was about to jump out at any moment. But it is real nice of your lordship to suggest that people impacted by this nerf get tossed a bone every couple of days so that they can "play their way." What a pillar of the community.

First, a straw man is not what you claim it is, what @arcane said was not a straw man because he did not make up a completely fictitious argument, assign it to someone then attack it; his supposition was an observation, which you COULD claim is fallacious and demand evidence, but it's not a straw man, sorry.

 

Second, t's ok that you don't grasp economic function fully, but just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't true. The earth was spherical well before people believed that, true nonetheless. Res ipso loquitur, clearly the change speaks for itself in that a problem exists.

 

Perhaps your posts get moderated because you have a penchant for needlessly insulting people? I mean, you could write all that stuff you just did, without the personal attacks, homeskillet.

 

Or was the point to be vengeful?

Edited August 18, 2022 by SwitchFade

[Excraft]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

If you door sit that alt, and your fire farmer runs, nonafk of course, how is it you DON'T have enough currency by the end of the power level?

 

I don't think you've read any of the posts you're quoting.  Not everyone bothers with running an optimized farming build or runs AFK farms.  It isn't just about having enough inf, it's about the amount of time needed to farm, especially for people who aren't AFK farmers or multiboxing 20 accounts at once.  Converting to reward merits helped cut down on farming for some folks.  It's also something people didn't "abuse" and liked having as an option. 

 

There's a lot of pissing and moaning on these forums about AE and people spending all their time in AE, and your "solutions" are to spend more time farming in AE?  That seems very counterproductive to me.

[blue4333]

4 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

First, a straw man is not what you claim it is, what @arcane said was not a straw man because he did not make up a completely fictitious argument, assign it to someone then attack it; his supposition was an observation, which you COULD claim is fallacious and demand evidence, but it's not a straw man, sorry.

 

It is a straw man because people upset that the Emp Merit - Reward Merit conversion is being taken away for no good reason  and reducing one source of income and the strawman is accusing farmers of needing/requiring the conversion to be rich.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Excraft said:

 

I don't think you've read any of the posts you're quoting.  Not everyone bothers with running an optimized farming build or runs AFK farms.  It isn't just about having enough inf, it's about the amount of time needed to farm, especially for people who aren't AFK farmers or multiboxing 20 accounts at once.  Converting to reward merits helped cut down on farming for some folks.  It's also something people didn't "abuse" and liked having as an option. 

 

There's a lot of pissing and moaning on these forums about AE and people spending all their time in AE, and your "solutions" are to spend more time farming in AE?  That seems very counterproductive to me.

I did read them all, fully. The point is if you run that alt to 50, you will have enough inf from actively farming them to 50 to fully kit them, if it takes 4-5 hours to do it.

 

If you can farm up a door sitting alt in less time than 4 hours, that's not an argument to let someone convert emps, it's proof that AE xp reward scaling needs to be adjusted.

 

And, if you have to run beyond 50 for emp wealth, you also earn more currency from that additional time farming, which brings us back to the beginning.

 

Farming the toon up to 50 generates all the wealth you need in the activity itself, if that activity takes 4-5 hours at the average rate of return for fire AE farming. If 1-50 is faster than that, there's proof that AE rewards are skewed.

 

None of which negates the fact that emp to merits can be exploited at the extreme.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, blue4333 said:

 

It is a straw man because people upset that the Emp Merit - Reward Merit conversion is being taken away for no good reason  and reducing one source of income and the strawman is accusing farmers of needing/requiring the conversion to be rich.

That's not a straw man, again, because the farmers, who make enough inf to kit a build without the conversion claim they don't and need it. It's an observation.

[blue4333]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

That's not a straw man, again, because the farmers, who make enough inf to kit a build without the conversion claim they don't and need it. It's an observation.

 

It is because attacking "greedy AE Farmers" is an easier stance than justifying the removal of the conversion that came out of no-where.

[Excraft]

11 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

I did read them all, fully. The point is if you run that alt to 50, you will have enough inf from actively farming them to 50 to fully kit them, if it takes 4-5 hours to do it.

 

If you can farm up a door sitting alt in less time than 4 hours, that's not an argument to let someone convert emps, it's proof that AE xp reward scaling needs to be adjusted.

 

And, if you have to run beyond 50 for emp wealth, you also earn more currency from that additional time farming, which brings us back to the beginning.

 

Farming the toon up to 50 generates all the wealth you need in the activity itself, if that activity takes 4-5 hours at the average rate of return for fire AE farming. If 1-50 is faster than that, there's proof that AE rewards are skewed.

 

 Not everyone is running optimized AFK farmers or multiboxing.  Not everyone is using AE farming.  Some people just liked having the option of using that conversion to save themselves a couple of TF runs or whatever to finish out a build.

 

5 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

None of which negates the fact that emp to merits can be exploited at the extreme.

 

There's lots of things that can be exploited.  Using /ah is an exploit.  Speed TF runs can exploit rewards at the extreme, but I don't see anyone crying over that.   There's less than a handful of people if that doing whatever it was this stupid change was supposed to fix.  I guarantee most people aren't exploiting it.

[Seed22]

26 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

If farming with a multibox takes 4-5 hours to get that toon from 1-50, you will have 500m-1b inf once the toon hits 50.

 

That's a full build, no emp conversion needed and we're right back at the beginning.

 

Look, as I said I am in favor of keeping it but with a time limit, but for there to actually be a healthy debate, argent's have to make sense, right?

 

If you door sit that alt, and your fire farmer runs, nonafk of course, how is it you DON'T have enough currency by the end of the power level?

 

If you can ding 50 faster than 4-5 hours farming in AH, that's absolutely not a supporting argument for not having cash, it's a actually proof and support for the argument that AH has too high xp reward scaling. And, if you go beyond 50 to vet emps, that means you earned currency greater than the supposed "not enough" from the time it took to run that door sitter 1-50, back to the fact you have enough without emps.

 

I'm all for compromise, but my hero, we gots to have us some kinda logics 'N shit, neh?

 

 

This was accurate maybe 3-4 years ago.

 

As someone who actually has a fire farmer, let me tell you those numbers aren't true unless you're multi-boxing 3+ Fire farmers and even then? Yeah still most likely not true.

 

I PL all my newer alts because I wish I would PUG them from 1-50 again after all these years.

 

After my farming from 1-50 is complete, this is what I'm looking at: 86mil and anywhere from 0-3 purples. I'm not raking in 500mil-1bil anymore like I used to, and that took me a week of just farming for an hr a day to get that back then (I can't handle my butt in a chair for 8 hours :P)

 

And most 50's who get PL'ed in AE have an outside funder of sorts. I'd hope you wouldn't PL a 50 unless you could afford it, but then again, different strokes for different folks?

 

The only objective  FACT is this regarding AE, everything else is subjective:

-Fire farming gave more XP than intended and has been normalized

-Emp to RM has been removed, but vet levels can still give Emps for Incarnate abilities

 

That's it. The devs normalized AE fire farming, no other outside takes really needed on "how to fix AE"

 

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

48 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

None of which negates the fact that emp to merits can be exploited at the extreme.

 

From what I have read from the HC posts, taking advantage of the early EMP merits from Vet rewards is not an exploit.  They were questioned about whether or not there should be a rule against it or not.

 

38 minutes ago, Excraft said:

Not everyone is running optimized AFK farmers or multiboxing.  Not everyone is using AE farming.  Some people just liked having the option of using that conversion to save themselves a couple of TF runs or whatever to finish out a build.

 

Exactly this.

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

If farming with a multibox takes 4-5 hours to get that toon from 1-50, you will have 500m-1b inf once the toon hits 50.

 

That's a full build, no emp conversion needed and we're right back at the beginning.

 

Look, as I said I am in favor of keeping it but with a time limit, but for there to actually be a healthy debate, argent's have to make sense, right?

 

If you door sit that alt, and your fire farmer runs, nonafk of course, how is it you DON'T have enough currency by the end of the power level?

 

If you can ding 50 faster than 4-5 hours farming in AH, that's absolutely not a supporting argument for not having cash, it's a actually proof and support for the argument that AH has too high xp reward scaling. And, if you go beyond 50 to vet emps, that means you earned currency greater than the supposed "not enough" from the time it took to run that door sitter 1-50, back to the fact you have enough without emps.

 

I'm all for compromise, but my hero, we gots to have us some kinda logics 'N shit, neh?

 

 

Yea hi. Farmer here, and I have to disagree here.

 

First off, with 3 multibox farmers redlining the most I was able to make was 2.4 mil/minute. This is me going all out as hard as I can as fast as I can.

 

So lets do the math!

2,400,000 x 60 (mins) = 144,000,000 inf/hour.

144,000,000 x 5 hours = 720,000,000 total inf gained.

 

Sounds solid right? Well no.

 

First off, the vast majority of farmers do not multibox. And for context, lets say that a person is power-leveling themselves, meaning one active farmer, one alt getting 2x exp at 0 Inf. In that circumstance, I get roughly 800 thousand/minute. Because the inf gain is split, and with exp boosters omitted from any gain. You are essentially taking a loss in money to level twice as fast.

 

So lets do the math for that -

800,000 x 60 (mins) = 48,000,000 inf/hour

48,000,000 x 5 hours = 240,000,000 total inf gained.

 

240 million is enough to get a build started for sure. You won't be full purples, but you wont be poormans either. Thats enough to get a few of the must  haves like LotG, all of the Uniques and Procs, and a few low end sets. Playable? Sure. Powerfarmable? I doubt it. Possible, depending on the AT and powerset.

 

But wait! There's More!

 

This is all "active" farming. Not AFK farming. You can cut that roughly by 3/4 to half. But lets assume the best net gain for context, and say half.

 

So thats -

400,000 x 60 = 24,000,000 inf/hour

24,000,000 x 5 hours =  120,000,000 total inf gained for afk power leveling.

 

Now in the interest of fairness, I presume we all agree that afk farming would take longer. So lets go ahead and add 3 hours to that.

 

24,000,000 x 3 = 72,000,000

72,000,000 + 120,000,000 = 192,000,000 total net inf. For 8 hours of AFK power leveling.

 

I have both active and power leveled myself multiple times. I likely have around 20-30 level 50s on 3 accounts now. And I can assure you that these are roughly correct figures. It varies if you multibox 2 or 3, as well as active or afk farm. But the notion that anyone who levels 1-50 in an AE will automatically have over half a billion inf to blow is laughably inaccurate.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Neiska

[Coyotedancer]

11 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

The cognitive dissonance that @arcane spoke of is when farmers, who can generate currency orders of magnitude greater than any other way of playing, ,,,,

 

Farming, which generates 2-4 million inf per minute on average, which is 120-240 .million per hour, is enough to fully min max any build in 3-5 hours.....

 

 

*sigh*

 

Switch... You've been reading the AE threads, 

You've seen the "Actual Play" numbers some of us regular farmers and AFKs have been posting of our farm runs.

 

You KNOW that both of those quoted statements are huge exaggerations. Angel, farming at the raw bleeding edge, may make 2m INF per minute, but that's in no way typical. I haven't seen *anyone* claim 4m per minute. much less that that's any kind of "average".

 

Making false claims to back up your preferred narrative is bad mojo. Unless you're accusing every single one of us who posted our averages of lying. Which is also not a good thing.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[arcane]

A strawman is when you argue against a weaker argument that no one is making. The argument that self-identified farmers need merits to make cash is an argument people have explicitly made multiple times.

[Neiska]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

If farming with a multibox takes 4-5 hours to get that toon from 1-50, you will have 500m-1b inf once the toon hits 50.

 

Forgot a few things in your assumption here.

 

1. First off, no one is getting 1-50 in 5 hours without EXP boosters. And if you use the EXP boosters, you are going to loose money.

2. If you are power leveling yourself, the money is still split. And that money that's the alts "portion" is lost, due to the Exp boosters.

3. After 5 hours of playing 1 active farmer, and 1 alt with a 2x exp booster, you are more likely to have around 200-250m or so. Not the 500-1b as suggested.

4. It takes longer and you will get less money if you are "afk farming."

 

You will likely make enough to have a basebone slotting taken care of, with all the must-haves. But the notion that you can have a brand new character of any AT completely purpled out in 5 hours of farming is highly incorrect.

 

Food for thought.

[SwitchFade]

23 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

 

*sigh*

 

Switch... You've been reading the AE threads, 

You've seen the "Actual Play" numbers some of us regular farmers and AFKs have been posting of our farm runs.

 

You KNOW that both of those quoted statements are huge exaggerations. Angel, farming at the raw bleeding edge, may make 2m INF per minute, but that's in no way typical. I haven't seen *anyone* claim 4m per minute. much less that that's any kind of "average".

 

Making false claims to back up your preferred narrative is bad mojo. Unless you're accusing every single one of us who posted our averages of lying. Which is also not a good thing.

 

 

 

 

These numbers are reported by people.

[Coyotedancer]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

These numbers are reported by people.

 

Who? Because I really want to know how that 4m is even possible. 

[Neiska]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

These numbers are reported by people.

 

Orly? Citation needed. Already given my figures, as well as others in the AE chat. And as a part of the farming community as well as discords, I have never heard of anyone claiming to make 4mil a minute.

[Neiska]

3 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

These numbers are reported by people.

 

Here, I will even do you one better. A video. This was recorded by someone I was leveling in a public farming run.

 

The farm takes roughly 3 minutes, and the person recording goes from 4.6 million inf, to 6.4 at the end of the run. that is a Net gain of roughly 1.8 Million in total. Divided that by 3 (time in minutes) = 600,000 inf/minute.

 

Keep in mind, this is actually "boosted inf gain" for having a full party. But the money I made in that time? 600,000 x 3? 1.8 million.

 

And if you can show me a video of someone doing this faster I would "love" to see one. My time beats most fire farmers.

 

 

So yea, I call BS on your "power leveling gets you 500mil in 5 hours" arguement.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, Neiska said:

 

Here, I will even do you one better. A video. This was recorded by someone I was leveling in a public farming run.

 

The farm takes roughly 3 minutes, and the person recording goes from 4.6 million inf, to 6.4 at the end of the run. that is a Net gain of roughly 1.8 Million in total. Divided that by 3 (time in minutes) = 600,000 inf/minute.

 

Keep in mind, this is actually "boosted inf gain" for having a full party. But the money I made in that time? 600,000 x 3? 1.8 million.

 

And if you can show me a video of someone doing this faster I would "love" to see one. My time beats most fire farmers.

 

 

So yea, I call BS on your "power leveling gets you 500mil in 5 hours" arguement.

Copied from the AE thread.....

 

Okay, just did a test and here are my info and figures.

Map - Biggs Comicon S/L Asteroid

Characters - 3 Boxing MM - Robot/Electric, Robot/Time, and Robot/Kinetic

Time to clear - 3:44

Total net Inf gained - 8,285,670

8,285,670/3.44= 2,408,625 inf/Minute

Note - this is flat inf gain only, no drops/recipes were taken into account as it is random.

 

Dunno if this will help as it is 3 boxing, but here it is.

 

PS - the net Inf/Hour would be - 144,517,500, not taking drops/salvage into account.

 

 

I wonder who said this?