Top Debuffers

[Psylenz0511]

55 minutes ago, ElDubs said:

Anyone have a good cold/rad defender build they would like to share with me?  Thanks 

good question, but a separate topic

[Frosticus]

I'm partial to Poison. 

Venomous gas is a good size auto hit aoe that debuffs all the good stuff a nice amount.

Then you have envenom and weaken on the harder stuff in the spawn.

Very little time spent applying debuffs, but pretty drastically alters the strength of a mob.

 

 

[Ankhammon]

On 10/12/2022 at 11:37 PM, MistressOhm said:

Was using Perf Shifter set and didn't see the benefit of that proc that often.   I've switched to Power Transfer, which pops an occasional heal, only 5% but it's useful.

 

Hurricane doesn't proc KB all that often, most of the heavy lifting is Repel and mobs still get pushed away by that.  LOVE the -ToHit it applies though, especially to bosses, EB's, and AV's/giant monsters.  As long as you've End to keep it going, it truly does turn you into a Tankfender.  Don't know why anyone would NOT use a -ToHit set for this.

 

A KB/KD would be useful in Gale, however, as an added, targeted KD cone (Gale is kind of a useless but cheap power as it is.)

 

I tend to slot LS for straight Damage, a Recharge, and an End reduction, because it doesn't miss and you can perma the things with one Recharge SO.  Even then it doesn't hit THAT hard, but it's useful for keeping things off their feet.  A KB/KD proc conversion there would be good to keep from throwing things away rather than down.

 

 

Uff.  I'd have to quintuple-slot it for Acc to make it reliable.   Right now it's just a placeholder in the power tray.  I'll have to push a Disorient set into it, and see if it gets better.

 

My go-to boss debuffer is Snow Storm.  -fly, -rech, and Slow, as a mob-centered AOE.  It burns Endurance like trucks in a mud bog burn gas, though, so have to slot for End reduction along with the Slow, and a Recharge or two to get it back when it drops.

 

And so far I've skipped Tornado.  I may have to revisit, to see what it can do, but at first glance it seems rather chaotic, even more so than Hurricane or TS.

Interesting that you don't see much end improvement with Perf Shifter proc. I was seeing it quite often but only use the Short Circuit power as a lead in and eventually as a proc powers + end drain so maybe it's more of a how I use it thing. 

 

You are right that Hurricane only procs occasionally, I just find the kb in it annoying since I want to herd with it. 

 

And I've tried to like Gale, but I just can't get into it. 

Same with Snow Storm for the reason you just stated. The set has lots of end management to do and it's just not worth it to me. 

 

As for Thunder Clap, I only use it after aim/Power Up so it hits stuff. Then again I never try anything fancy like doing missions on +4/+8 or that stuff. I usually just go about life doing +2 and listening to an Eagles album or something... "Take it easy, take it easy." 

 

For Tornado, I live in Kansas so I figured it was a part of life and had to be accepted. 😉 Plus it's got good damage if you can keep the targets in it. 

 

Finally, I've played around with placing Energy Manipulator: stun proc in a few places like Short Circuit and Volt Sentinel and have been surprised with the results. I was trying a layered stun proc approach on a Elec Affn./Elec char and it was noticeable.  Might be a good thing for Storm/Elec to get some boss coverage with stuns. 

 

[Doomguide2005]

     I never got around to trying the Energy Manip proc but did have a build (just theoretical in Mids) using Tempest Chance for End Drain.  5-slotted the usual ranged damage set (Decimation) then in the 6th dropped the Tempest proc.  Looked pretty nasty on paper (-13 End when it happens) but that was also under the older proc rules not the current ppm method.  Did that with any power that took the proc.  

[Voltak]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:55 AM, roleki said:

Curious, what gives you that impression?  In my experience, Poison and TA absolutely neuter hard targets, and in the case of TA, removes everything BUT the hard targets from the encounter.  

Trick Arrow is the only set in the game that provides a super strong debuff power that actually debuffs the resistances that ANY ENEMY might have vs any kind of debuffs

There is no other set in the game that has that. 

It's king of debuffs in my book for that reason 

[Mezmera]

59 minutes ago, Voltak said:

There is no other set in the game that has that. 

 

Bone Smasher's Energy Release mechanic on Energy Doms nets you just about this same ability, granted its only single target and half the values of that mighty Acid Arrow, but it's still some mighty fine debuffing during AV fights.  

Edited October 17, 2022 by Mezmera

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Voltak said:

Trick Arrow is the only set in the game that provides a super strong debuff power that actually debuffs the resistances that ANY ENEMY might have vs any kind of debuffs

There is no other set in the game that has that. 

It's king of debuffs in my book for that reason 

It's a neat debuff, but for the most part debuffing most enemies into the ground is easy enough. 

 

The enemies you want to improve debuffing heavily resist acid arrow's effects. 

 

For instance it doesn't make sapping or tohit debuffing an AV suddenly viable as a primary strategy. Regen debuffers usually neuter AVs single handily.

 

On the other hand the reverse powerboost of weaken actually cripples AVs like ghostwidow and makes silver mantis way less threatening.

[Mezmera]

5 hours ago, Frosticus said:

For instance it doesn't make sapping or tohit debuffing an AV suddenly viable as a primary strategy.

 

Sapping isn't so much a big deal but there is TONS of -tohitt in TA and a lot of it unresisted.  Not to mention the -50% damage again a lot of it unresisted.  On top of oodles of -resistance.  All of this stuff highly useful all packed into one character.

 

 

5 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Regen debuffers usually neuter AVs single handily

 

Yes they neuter them pretty decent.  But when you have 3 colds using benumb then the TA is giving them each a 67% (I believe its this number last I checked) boost to their -regen abilities on top of the high -regen the TA brings too stuff just melts when targets get hit with that Acid Arrow along with your other debuffers on the team.  

 

There's just too much fascinating stuff that Acid Arrow and Ice Arrow can do for the other characters on the team.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by Mezmera

[Voltak]

10 hours ago, Frosticus said:

It's a neat debuff, but for the most part debuffing most enemies into the ground is easy enough. 

 

The enemies you want to improve debuffing heavily resist acid arrow's effects. 

 

For instance it doesn't make sapping or tohit debuffing an AV suddenly viable as a primary strategy. Regen debuffers usually neuter AVs single handily.

 

On the other hand the reverse powerboost of weaken actually cripples AVs like ghostwidow and makes silver mantis way less threatening.

Regen debuffs are HIGHLY resisted by AVs, purple triangles and +4s.  What you smoking ?? 
So your statement about regen debuffers neutering AV's single handily is a NO GO. 

Acid Arrow debuffs resists to debuffs by 40% at lvl 50. 

Acid Arrows increases the strength of debuffs

NOW....

Combine all that with...

Everything that ICE ARROW brings 

Another 67% debuff  UNRESISTABLE ! 

Then another 20% dmg debuff that is UNRESISTABLE by anyone 

Then add

25% dmg debuff Poison Gas arrow

and 25% dmg debuff UNRESISTABLE , also by Poison Gas Arrow 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Voltak

[Doomrider]

Acid Arrow, by the description alone, sounds really great.
Maybe if you had an entire team of TAs it would be more noticeable but even then, I'm not so sure.
I finally got some time to do some testing since TA was revamped, and I'm finding Acid Arrow lacking...

I've tested it versus sub-EB level groups of enemies and found no particular use for it, outside of slotting -res procs into it.

VS AVs; I wanted to see how it would fair against the purple patch, so I tried it out on +4 Chimera. (though I had a level shift, so it was really a 3 level diff)
What I found was this:

Flash Arrow applied took him from 50 base to-hit to 42.07.
w/ Acid Arrow applied it took him to 41.89. 

EMP Arrow almost flatlined his regen by itself.
w/ Acid Arrow it took it the rest of the way for a short duration.

Ice Arrow applied took his recharge to -2.11.
w/ Acid Arrow applied it took him to -2.52.

That was the only impact it had. For clarity; It did not improve -dmg from PGA or -res from Disruption or Entangling Arrow. It would be nice if the description of the power accurately reflected what kind of debuffs the power will improve.

Granted this is from a single player's debuffs (mine), but it's not moving the needle much.
Acid Arrows's effects seem to be quite resisted and possibly affected by the purple patch as well. Took his debuff resistances down -19.5%.

TL;DR: The unresisted portions of TA's debuffs good.
           Acid Arrow's impact on making them even less resisted, not as impactful.
           

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Doomrider
added TL;DR:

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Doomrider said:

It would be nice if the description of the power accurately reflected what kind of debuffs the power will improve.

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.trick_arrow.acid_arrow&at=defender

 

[Doomrider]

14 minutes ago, Uun said:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.trick_arrow.acid_arrow&at=defender

 

I was taking issue with the description. I'm not oblivious to what the power does lol. 
But not everyone visits City of Data. They look at a power's description and infer what effect the power will have. 
The description could be clearer, is all I was saying with that sentence.

[SeraphimKensai]

17 hours ago, Voltak said:

Trick Arrow is the only set in the game that provides a super strong debuff power that actually debuffs the resistances that ANY ENEMY might have vs any kind of debuffs

There is no other set in the game that has that. 

It's king of debuffs in my book for that reason 

That's why I have three trick arrow toons I roll with.

[Frosticus]

8 hours ago, Mezmera said:

 

Sapping isn't so much a big deal but there is TONS of -tohitt in TA and a lot of it unresisted.  Not to mention the -50% damage again a lot of it unresisted.  On top of oodles of -resistance.  All of this stuff highly useful all packed into one character.

 

 

 

Yes they neuter them pretty decent.  But when you have 3 colds using benumb then the TA is giving them each a 67% (I believe its this number last I checked) boost to their -regen abilities on top of the high -regen the TA brings too stuff just melts when targets get hit with that Acid Arrow along with your other debuffers on the team.  

 

There's just too much fascinating stuff that Acid Arrow and Ice Arrow can do for the other characters on the team.  

Maybe a miscommunication. The comment was about acid arrow.

 

I'll give an example:

Hurricane can debuff any normal enemy into the ground, but is largely useless vs AV rank. Acid arrow does not suddenly make hurricane viable.

Short circuit can flatline endurance recovery (and drain a good %) of any normal enemy. Acid arrow does not suddenly make sapping hugely effective vs AV rank

 

We weren't discussing the unresistable aspects of TA's other powers, but we certainly can. They are great and not great.

Unresistable -tohit = big thumbs up

Unresistable -damage is only beneficial if the target has significant damage resistance because their resistance will resist your debuff. So things like godmode powers render most damage debuffs mute (which can be a real shock to anyone that leans on that type of mitigation).

The inverse is also true. -damage is boosted by -resistance debuffing. So outside of godmode powers many damage debuffers will produce much higher results. That unresistable portion that TA puts out sees no benefit from the -res in the set (or elsewhere).

 

Ice arrow is great. It is a reverse powerboost that I said was a star. Poisons is a bit better is all in that department.

 

TA is a great set, no contention on that. It takes awhile to get all of its debuffs out, but it has a great suite of tools. My response was in regard to acid arrow specifically.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

Maybe a miscommunication. The comment was about acid arrow.

 

I'll give an example:

Hurricane can debuff any normal enemy into the ground, but is largely useless vs AV rank. Acid arrow does not suddenly make hurricane viable.

Short circuit can flatline endurance recovery (and drain a good %) of any normal enemy.
Acid arrow does not suddenly make sapping hugely effective vs AV rank

 

 

 

At lvl 50
Acid arrow lowers your resistance to endurance debuffs by 40%
Acid arrow lowers your resistance to recovery debuffs by 40%

Acid arrow lowers your resistance to TO HIT DEBUFFS by 40%

Again, there's no other power set in the game that does what Trick Arrow does via Acid Arrow. 

Trick Arrow is arguably the king debuffer of the game. 

[Frosticus]

5 hours ago, Voltak said:

Regen debuffs are HIGHLY resisted by AVs, purple triangles and +4s.  What you smoking ?? 
So your statement about regen debuffers neutering AV's single handily is a NO GO. 

Acid Arrow debuffs resists to debuffs by 40% at lvl 50. 

Acid Arrows increases the strength of debuffs

NOW....

Combine all that with...

Everything that ICE ARROW brings 

Another 67% debuff  UNRESISTABLE ! 

Then another 20% dmg debuff that is UNRESISTABLE by anyone 

Then add

25% dmg debuff Poison Gas arrow

and 25% dmg debuff UNRESISTABLE , also by Poison Gas Arrow 

 

Settle down. No one is saying TA isn't great at debuffing.

I was commenting on your assertion that acid arrow is what makes it the best.

 

I play with my alpha slotted so mechanically I never face higher than +3 unless exemping down for low content.

You might also be confused about what unresistable means. It is still governed by the purple patch.

You might also be confused about how certain debuffs are impacted by other mechanics that make unresistable debuffs less effective in some situations.

You might also be confused about how much -regen is needed for most encounters and at which point it becomes redundant. 1 (strong regen debuff like lingering rad) makes almost all AV's/GMs manageable. 2 debuffs regen by 84.5%. If your team can't outpace that then there are other concerns. There are some unique encounters that could warrant more.

[Frosticus]

21 minutes ago, Voltak said:

At lvl 50
Acid arrow lowers your resistance to endurance debuffs by 40%
Acid arrow lowers your resistance to recovery debuffs by 40%

Acid arrow lowers your resistance to TO HIT DEBUFFS by 40%

Again, there's no other power set in the game that does what Trick Arrow does via Acid Arrow. 

Trick Arrow is arguably the king debuffer of the game. 

Sigh.

Hurricane is a 59% tohit debuff. (65.5% vs a -1 con)

Vs a lvl 50 AV (which is -1 for most of us) it will debuff their tohit by 9.8%

If a TA uses acid arrow it now becomes (again -1) 15.2%

 

Storm needs no help vs regular enemies so the acid arrow is redundant. It provides paltry assistance to the stormy vs an AV even at -1.

 

No one is saying TA isn't "the king debuffer" at least not me. Try to keep focused.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Frosticus

[Voltak]

48 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Settle down. No one is saying TA isn't great at debuffing.

I was commenting on your assertion that acid arrow is what makes it the best.

 

I play with my alpha slotted so mechanically I never face higher than +3 unless exemping down for low content.

You might also be confused about what unresistable means. It is still governed by the purple patch.

You might also be confused about how certain debuffs are impacted by other mechanics that make unresistable debuffs less effective in some situations.

You might also be confused about how much -regen is needed for most encounters and at which point it becomes redundant. 1 (strong regen debuff like lingering rad) makes almost all AV's/GMs manageable. 2 debuffs regen by 84.5%. If your team can't outpace that then there are other concerns. There are some unique encounters that could warrant more.

I am settled down. No need for you to say any of that. 

If anything you come across as condescending when you talk like that, so stop it. 

Acid arrow is a power that exists no where among all the debuffing sets 

It lowers the resistances to debuffs, making debuffs stronger. 

I am not confused at all about regen debuffs. 

But one regen debuff of 500% vs a +4 AV is not going to make the AV manageable. 
What makes that AV manageable is the amount of dmg it is taking way way way more than the regen debuff which is being resisted by 87%. 

Again, 87% of the 500% regen debuff is being resisted, so the regen debuff is only 65%. 

Now, about hurricane to hit debuffs

This is what you said --

"Hurricane is a 59% tohit debuff. (65.5% vs a -1 con)

Vs a lvl 50 AV (which is -1 for most of us) it will debuff their tohit by 9.8%

If a TA uses acid arrow it now becomes (again -1) 15.2%"


AV at that con level have a 60% resistance to To hit Debuffs 
60% of 59% (of hurricane) is 35.4%

So the debuff is actually only 59 - 35.4  = 23.6%

Acid Arrow lowers the resistance to debuffs by 40%

If it lowers the resistance to TO HIT debuffs then 

They are only resisting the TO HIT debuff by 20%

20% of 59% = 11.8%

59% - 11.8% = 47.2%

So now their to hit is being debuffed by 47.2% thanks to Acid Arrow. 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Voltak

[Frosticus]

18 minutes ago, Voltak said:

I am settled down. No need for you to say any of that. 

If anything you come across as condescending when you talk like that, so stop it. 

Acid arrow is a power that exists no where among all the debuffing sets 

It lowers the resistances to debuffs, making debuffs stronger. 

I am not confused at all about regen debuffs. 

But one regen debuff of 500% vs a +4 AV is not going to make the AV manageable. 
What makes that AV manageable is the amount of dmg it is taking way way way more than the regen debuff which is being resisted by 87%. 

Again, 87% of the 500% regen debuff is being resisted, so the regen debuff is only 65%. 

Now, about hurricane to hit debuffs

This is what you said --

"Hurricane is a 59% tohit debuff. (65.5% vs a -1 con)

Vs a lvl 50 AV (which is -1 for most of us) it will debuff their tohit by 9.8%

If a TA uses acid arrow it now becomes (again -1) 15.2%"


AV at that con level have a 60% resistance to To hit Debuffs 
60% of 59% (of hurricane) is 35.4%

So the debuff is actually only 59 - 35.4  = 23.6%

Acid Arrow lowers the resistance to debuffs by 40%

If it lowers the resistance to TO HIT debuffs then 

They are only resisting the TO HIT debuff by 20%

20% of 59% = 11.8%

59% - 11.8% = 47.2%

So now their to hit is being debuffed by 47.2% thanks to Acid Arrow. 

 

Thank you for turning off your capslock. It enables a much more pleasant exchange. One where I don't need be curt in response.

 

It will be to your benefit to fire up a power analyzer and test out some of these things because your numbers are really far off.

For clarity:

A lvl 50 AV has 85% resistance to debuffs not 60%

Acid arrow is fully resistible, it is not one of TA's unresistible powers and it is fully affected by the purple patch. For the most part few enemies have specific resistance to any of the unique aspects of the debuff, but there are some.

 

Again, we rarely face +4's in late game from a mechanics standpoint, which is quite important for debuffers as the purple patch hammers them hard.

But if you did face a lvl 54 AV at +4 it would look like this:

Regen (ie benumb)

If a regen debuffer were facing a +4 AV then it would be (500%*0.48)*(100-87%)= 31.2% regen debuff

add an acid arrow (facing +4) would increase it to (40%*0.48)*31.2% = 37.19% regen debuff

 

ToHit Debuff

Hurricane vs +4 AV would be (59%*0.48)*(13%) = 3.68% tohit debuff

add an acid arrow (facing +4) (40%*0.48)*3.68% = 4.39% tohit debuff

 

In a completely non-condescending way I'd suggest you have a look at my poison guide. The section that breaks down Weaken goes in to great detail of how debuffs function and interact with each other, how enemy resistances impact them and what the purple patch does to debuffers.

 

In conclusion, TA is great. Acid arrow is a unique debuff that makes other debuffers (and the user) a little bit better in hard content. It is not a silver bullet. 

 

 

[Voltak]

19 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Thank you for turning off your capslock. It enables a much more pleasant exchange. One where I don't need be curt in response.

 

It will be to your benefit to fire up a power analyzer and test out some of these things because your numbers are really far off.

For clarity:

A lvl 50 AV has 85% resistance to debuffs not 60%

Acid arrow is fully resistible, it is not one of TA's unresistible powers and it is fully affected by the purple patch. For the most part few enemies have specific resistance to any of the unique aspects of the debuff, but there are some.

 

Again, we rarely face +4's in late game from a mechanics standpoint, which is quite important for debuffers as the purple patch hammers them hard.

But if you did face a lvl 54 AV at +4 it would look like this:

Regen (ie benumb)

If a regen debuffer were facing a +4 AV then it would be (500%*0.48)*(100-87%)= 31.2% regen debuff

add an acid arrow (facing +4) would increase it to (40%*0.48)*31.2% = 37.19% regen debuff

 

ToHit Debuff

Hurricane vs +4 AV would be (59%*0.48)*(13%) = 3.68% tohit debuff

add an acid arrow (facing +4) (40%*0.48)*3.68% = 4.39% tohit debuff

 

In a completely non-condescending way I'd suggest you have a look at my poison guide. The section that breaks down Weaken goes in to great detail of how debuffs function and interact with each other, how enemy resistances impact them and what the purple patch does to debuffers.

 

In conclusion, TA is great. Acid arrow is a unique debuff that makes other debuffers (and the user) a little bit better in hard content. It is not a silver bullet. 

 

 

I did check the chart again. 
I was reading the upper left instead of bottom right side. 
Excuse that

The resistances of even AVs are 85% vs TO hit debuffs 

59% to hit debuff from hurricane - 52.51 = 6.49% 

With Acid Arrow 

AVs is now only resistant to To hit debuffs by 45%
45% of 59 is 26.55

59 - 26.55 = 32.45%
Hurricane is debuffing by 32.45% 
Hurricane is now debuffing the TO hit of a lvl 50 AV by 32.45% 

At least that's the math is saying. 

A level 54 AV is resisting 87% of the 500% regen debuff

That means 435% of the regen debuff is being resisted

So the debuff is only hitting for 65% regen debuff net strength 

That's without Acid Arrow. 

[Doomguide2005]

@Voltakif I'm not mistaken what @Frosticusis attempting to convey is the Purple Patch is effecting the resistance to resistance debuffs itself so the -40% becomes a -6% (at 85%) ... I think.

[Frosticus]

I think I see your main error. You are treating acid arrow like it a flat debuff (additive), but it is multiplicative.

You can see this very easily with a power analyzer on a pylon. Use flash arrow and then Acid arrow.

 

@Doomridergave numbers above from in game demonstrating it.

 

For regen vs a +4 (lvl 54AV) your power is first affected by the purple patch which you didn't account for.

500*0.48 = 240% - regen

then it has to go through its resistance of 87%

= 240*(1-.87) = 31.2% -regen

 

It's also important to look at how much regen actually matters to an AV encounter. They only regen like 100hp/sec. Regen debuffs were way more important back when a top tier scrapper was doing like 150dps. Now that defenders are north of 400dps it is a lot less prominent in overall outcomes. Though they are still very welcome when AV's have a lot of damage resistance that drastically cuts dps. 

[Frosticus]

1 minute ago, Doomguide2005 said:

@Voltakif I'm not mistaken what @Frosticusis attempting to convey is the Purple Patch is effecting the resistance to resistance debuffs itself so the -40% becomes a -6% (at 85%) ... I think.

Not quite. The purple patch affects it, but @Voltak is treating it as a flat debuff rather than multiplicative as it actually is.

For simplicity  you can just use the purple patch numbers. It doesn't matter where you put it in your calculation, but I throw it on the end, just like I would a damage resistance debuff.

 

Vs

-1 = 40%x1.11 = 44.4%

0 = 40%

+1 = 40%*0.9 = 36%

+2= 40%*0.8 = 32%

+3 = 40%*0.65 = 26%

+4 = 40%*0.48 = 19.2%

 

So vs an even con it always makes a tohit debuff 40% stronger, but it does so after resistances are factored in. In the case of an AV they have resisted the tohit debuff so low that improving it by 40% is still a very low number (as seen with the hurricane examples).

 

[Frosticus]

One more example that should clarify the issue:

If an even con AV has 85% smash/lethal resistance and you a apply disruption arrow (40% -res) how much damage does it take from a 100 damage attack?

a/ It will be 15 * 1.4 = 21 damage

 

If disruption arrow was unresistable (ie additive flat reduction)

b/It would be (85%-40%)*100 = 65 damage

 

Acid arrow is simply a non traditional -resistance debuff. It works the same as disruption arrow mechanically and is resistable (ie multiplicative).

[Doomguide2005]

14 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Not quite. The purple patch affects it, but @Voltak is treating it as a flat debuff rather than multiplicative as it actually is.

For simplicity  you can just use the purple patch numbers. It doesn't matter where you put it in your calculation, but I throw it on the end, just like I would a damage resistance debuff.

 

Vs

-1 = 40%x1.11 = 44.4%

0 = 40%

+1 = 40%*0.9 = 36%

+2= 40%*0.8 = 32%

+3 = 40%*0.65 = 26%

+4 = 40%*0.48 = 19.2%

 

So vs an even con it always makes a tohit debuff 40% stronger, but it does so after resistances are factored in. In the case of an AV they have resisted the tohit debuff so low that improving it by 40% is still a very low number (as seen with the hurricane examples).

 

Yeah, brain oofed, I used their resistance value (85%) rather than the purple patch modifier (48%) which is what I should have written.  Math Hard, reading is even Harder  🙄

Edited October 18, 2022 by Doomguide2005