Tweaking Gauntlet...

[Ultimo]

So, I've always thought Tankers kind of get the short end of the stick with regard to their inherent power, Gauntlet.  Every other class gets a benefit from their inherent skill both when grouped but ALSO when solo.  Only Tankers don't.  The ability to taunt enemies is pointless when solo.

 

So, I've been brainstorming, trying to come up with something balanced that can tweak the power so it has some benefit for the solo Tanker.  I thought I'd come here and see if anyone had any other ideas, or if they liked mine, which is:

 

When Tankers attack enemies who have been taunted, they get a small endurance recovery boost.  This would allow the Tanker to sustain his attacks more effectively, which would be beneficial in groups, but ALSO when solo, without greatly increasing damage output or survivability.

 

What do you think?  Is this good, or would you like to see something else?

[Uun]

The AoE/cone +radius buff is tied to Gauntlet and benefits Tankers when grouped or solo. 

[Ultimo]

Only if you have AOE powers... which most Tankers don't get until MUCH later... and the benefit is very minor.  It's a highly situational benefit at best.

[Psyonico]

12 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Only if you have AOE powers... which most Tankers don't get until MUCH later... and the benefit is very minor.  It's a highly situational benefit at best.

That's really not true.  Most Tanks can get a cone or PBAoE by 20

[PLVRIZR]

25 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

That's really not true.  Most Tanks can get a cone or PBAoE by 20

Agree...or damage aura.

[Ultimo]

And again, that's highly situational.  Which other class only gets a benefit from their inherent SOMETIMES?  Does the Scrapper's critical hit ability only affect certain powers?  Does the Defender's Vigilance only work after L20?

[Uun]

No vote on this. Tanks do not need a buff.

[Major_Decoy]

No, Tankers do not need a buff, not as a whole. There are specific sets that don't see as much benefit from Gauntlet as others, but Tanks are well off, if not perhaps too well off right now.

 

Any sets that are under performing should be addressed individually rather than by tweaking Gauntlet.

[Major_Decoy]

21 hours ago, Psyonico said:

That's really not true.  Most Tanks can get a cone or PBAoE by 20

All tanks can get a cone by 20 with investment in the Fighting Pool.

[PeregrineFalcon]

16 hours ago, Ultimo said:

And again, that's highly situational.  Which other class only gets a benefit from their inherent SOMETIMES?  Does the Scrapper's critical hit ability only affect certain powers?  Does the Defender's Vigilance only work after L20?

No, but Vigilance only works for some Defenders. My FF Defender, for example, never gets any benefit from Vigilance, ever.

 

Gauntlet helps all Tankers all the time. It adds an AoE Taunt as well as increases the size of all AoEs. In short Gauntlet helps the Tanker hold aggro on teams and helps them do more damage while solo.

[Ultimo]

Certainly Vigilance works on your Defender.  When he's solo, he'll get a damage buff.

 

Taunting enemies who can ONLY attack you isn't helping you.  Increasing the size of an AOE you don't have isn't helping you.  None of the other powers require you to take a specific power to get the benefit of the inherent (ie. the AOE).

 

Honestly, I don't understand the resistance to this.

[Major_Decoy]

11 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

No, but Vigilance only works for some Defenders. My FF Defender, for example, never gets any benefit from Vigilance, ever.

 

Gauntlet helps all Tankers all the time. It adds an AoE Taunt as well as increases the size of all AoEs. In short Gauntlet helps the Tanker hold aggro on teams and helps them do more damage while solo.

Your defender gets benefit from Vigilance when solo or when teamed with fewer than... three people? I think it starts at a 30% damage bonus, -10% for every team mate, minimum 0%.

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Certainly Vigilance works on your Defender.  When he's solo, he'll get a damage buff.

I never solo with my Defender, so it doesn't help. But yes, I am aware that Vigilance has a damage buff.

 

6 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Increasing the size of an AOE you don't have isn't helping you.

ALL Tanker secondaries have an AoE. My main is Energy Melee and even it has two AoEs.

 

6 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Honestly, I don't understand the resistance to this.

A lot of people think that the removal of Bruising and the increase to the Tanker damage modifiers and AoE size has made them OP. Personally I'm ok with the change, but then my main is a Tanker not a Brute.

[Luminara]

15 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Taunting enemies who can ONLY attack you isn't helping you.

 

With the current state of the AI, Gauntlet is one of the very few things which prevents enemies from swimming to Tahiti in the middle of a fight.  That's time not spent chasing an enemy who ignores your Taunts once it's started to run, or waiting for it to come back.

 

It helps.

[Bill Z Bubba]

16 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Honestly, I don't understand the resistance to this.

 

Because tanks were ridiculously overbuffed already and any further buffs are beyond ignorant.

[Omega-202]

This suggestion and the idea that Gauntlet is useless solo shows an incredible lack of understanding of game mechanics.  The Gauntlet taunt is a massive benefit for tanks in that it almost completely eliminates runners.  Not to mention the ABSOLUTELY NOT negligible AoE increase.  If you are finding that the AoE increase isn't doing much for you, that's a perception or build issue.  

 

In summary, OP doesn't understand the AT pr Gauntlet, and no change is needed.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, Krimson said:

When you are aggroing 3-5 mobs at a time, you totally get runners. So maybe you have to hustle more on Dreck. But something like the Troll Caves with that mob density... It's nice. 

 

Except for AVs going into full flee mode and ignoring taunt/gauntlet/threat completely, the difference in runners for my claws/sr scrapper vs the brute/tank versions is beyond painful.

[Sovera]

Gauntlet is not needed to prevent runners. All Tanker primaries have a taunt aura as it is which takes care of that.

 

With it said I don't think Tankers need anything since the OP is forgetting the inherent ALSO adds 50% radius to cones and PbAoE, and that works solo and in teams.

[Omega-202]

44 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Gauntlet is not needed to prevent runners. All Tanker primaries have a taunt aura as it is which takes care of that.

(A) Taunt auras have 12 ft radii (8 base x 1.5 from gauntlet). The Punchvoke taunt is WAY bigger.  

 

(B) The taunt auras proc the Gauntlet Punchvoke.  So you can't say one is useful vs the other.  They're inseparable concepts on a Tanker.  The reason the taunt auras are so good is because they are utilizing the Gauntlet effect.  

 

Case in point on (B), compare runners on a Scrapper just running their aura vs a Tank jus running their aura.  One gets just the aura effect and the other has the aura procing an extra taunt.  

[archgemini24]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:43 PM, Ultimo said:

And again, that's highly situational.  Which other class only gets a benefit from their inherent SOMETIMES?  Does the Scrapper's critical hit ability only affect certain powers?  Does the Defender's Vigilance only work after L20?

 

Kheldians have inherents that do nothing for the solo Kheld (not even taunting), and is very lackluster for teaming with Soldiers of Arachnos, other Kheldians (if anything), Dominators, and Controllers (10% slow resistance per SoA or Kheldian, and 1 point of Mez Protection for every Controller or Dominator). If the Kheld is teaming with 7 Controllers or Dominators, everything should be so locked down that 7 points of Mez protection is nearly useless, anyway. The damage resistance buff for certain other teammates also gets less useful as the Kheld's own shields, Dwarf, Eclipse, and/or Light Form come into their own.

 

All of this also means a Kheldian sees the greatest benefit from larger teams, which are still not guaranteed to be an ideal composition.

Edited September 30, 2022 by archgemini24
Removed a quote and added some details.