Sentinel Archtype Revamp

[Uun]

If you haven't seen the new release on the beta server. They're also proliferating Seismic Blast and Stone Armor to sentinels.

 

[StriderIV]

I think this looks very promising. I have an Elec/Elec Sentinel which is a fun tank mage, so looking forward to pulling them out again after the revamp.

While I think this is going to improve Sentinel's as a whole, does anyone think that any specific powerset combos on a Sent are going to be particularly stronger after the revamp?

[KaiOte]

From what I've seen it looks like this will just be a broad improvement. Anything that capitalizes on the vulnerability mechanic might shine so secondary effects that aren't DoTs might become a bit better but I don't imagine by enough to be noticeable. Perhaps sonic would see a sizeable bump?

Edited October 6, 2022 by KaiOte

[oldskool]

23 hours ago, StriderIV said:

does anyone think that any specific powerset combos on a Sent are going to be particularly stronger after the revamp?

 

Probably not. 

The rich will get richer with this. Bio Armor will remain strong since it is boosting base damage, and Sentinel base damage is getting a buff. Really, any of the current secondaries which overtly contribute to damage will just get better. Actually, any sources of +damage are going to be better now since the baseline is going up. While chasing +damage set bonuses isn't really amazing, it isn't completely useless if you start pushing towards 15%-20% (like Scrappers/Stalkers and Blasters can do). Damage-wise, there is still significant difference between ATs that can abuse certain powers like snipes (e.g., Scrappers/Stalkers) in their Epics or how general Blaster play works (i.e., spoiled for choice in offensive options). So far, don't expect the Sentinel to be blowing away the competition without additional tweaks, but so far the changes are better even if it is just slightly. 

 

Primaries are unlikely to suddenly change in solo play (beyond the 15~% damage boost), but most players should notice some smoother AoE clear as they gain more progress in their character. 

The general damage increase to AoE, plus the faster progression towards the T9, are pretty significant benefits for all Sentinels. 

[Underfyre]

Here's what you can expect from these changes:

 

The T1 Offense mode added a proc, but only to your single target abilities and it couldn't be enhanced. The only way to increase its damage was with -res. Now that damage is essentially always there, enhance-able, and is applied to your aoe abilities. Overall, the spreadsheet says you should see an average of a 9% increase in damage, going from 218dps to 239dps. Obviously the spreadsheet doesn't account for extraneous casts and just assumes you're going all out at all times, so your mileage will vary.

 

The Vulnerability click applies a a -15% res that ignore purple patch. Against a +3 target, your 25% debuff was brought down to 16.25%, so you haven't lost much there. And you're now largely in full control of when and where it goes off.

 

The proc from Stone armor is better than Fire, but worse than Bio.

 

Seismic can be a top end set, or a lower end set depending on its secondary. So we'll just call it middling. Can't everyone be the best.

[oldskool]

[Edits]:

 

After some more testing, performance is definitely better. In respect to the degree of change from the beta to live, that is going to be a YMMV caveat. The changes are a buff. Just how much of a a buff that would be is going to be dependent on the power sets, build, and situations. 

In general, the entirety of the gameplay is a good bit smoother just because of the scalar increase. The new Vulnerability mechanic can be a reasonable combat contributor given the limitations of being an inherent power (i.e., cannot be enhanced). 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by oldskool

[Wavicle]

Vulnerability IS particularly good for certain things like End Drain, -Regen, -Tohit, Mez, etc.

[Cutter]

The more I test, the less pleased I get with Vulnerability. Mainly I don't like taking time out of my attack flow to click it. And frankly I don't think it does enough as a single target debuff. I've shared some of that feedback on the beta forum thread.

 

I'm posting here instead of the FF thread cause I'm about to make a (prolly bad) suggestion: change Vulnerability to give the Sentinel some actual value in a team setting, while still letting it do the same (but better!) thing while solo. And I'll even keep it as a clicky (because control over when it happens does, in the end, win out over taking time out my attack rotation). So, keeping the meter build time, effects, and duration the same:

• When you click Vulnerability, the next attack you make applies Vulnerability to all targets (hit or miss). In addition, your teammates briefly benefit from your superior vision, gaining an increased perception range and resistance to perception & to-hit debuffs for the duration. Multiple instances of Vulnerability on a target stack at 50% effectiveness.

Sentinel AoE target caps keep it from getting too out of hand, and adding a little something for the team doesn't feel grossly overpowered (given that the effects are a counter to a small amount of content, unless you like running nothing but Arachnos cave radios, you sicko).

[Wavicle]

It shouldn’t be taking time out of your rotation. It has zero cast time. Figure out a better button for it to make it easier to hit. 

[Snarky]

First off, I want to applaud the hard work and thank the Devs for doing something for Sentinels.

 

I will probably dust off a few Sentinel 50s and see what is up.

 

I am ever pessimistic.  What a shock!

 

 

[TheMoncrief]

My Sentinel (Elec/Bio) definitely feels better. Like a character I might enjoy bringing to 50 instead of doing so merely as a chore for completion sake.

 

That said, it was already a set combo that was, IIRC, pretty solid by Sentinel standards. No idea if the changes can redeem any of the under-performing (even by pre-patch Sentinel standards) combinations.

[Frosticus]

39 minutes ago, TheMoncrief said:

My Sentinel (Elec/Bio) definitely feels better. Like a character I might enjoy bringing to 50 instead of doing so merely as a chore for completion sake.

 

That said, it was already a set combo that was, IIRC, pretty solid by Sentinel standards. No idea if the changes can redeem any of the under-performing (even by pre-patch Sentinel standards) combinations.

Same boat. But debating whether I want to finish my elec/bio (sitting at 38) or drop it in favour of elec/stone. I've played a lot of bio across the AT's, but have never put time into stone armor.

 

Seismic blast is a neat set once you figure out how to chain in boosted stalagmites consistently. But all my sentinels have been hover blasters, so playing on the ground would be a large divergence for the AT. 

[evetsleep]

59 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Same boat. But debating whether I want to finish my elec/bio (sitting at 38) or drop it in favour of elec/stone. I've played a lot of bio across the AT's, but have never put time into stone armor.

 

Seismic blast is a neat set once you figure out how to chain in boosted stalagmites consistently. But all my sentinels have been hover blasters, so playing on the ground would be a large divergence for the AT. 

I have a seismic/sr sentinel that is ground based and working out really well.  It also has that constant CRUNCH like stone melee that makes it a lot of fun.  It feels like one of those blast sets that can go with just about anything.  I ran a few missions without putting KB2KD in Meteor and the yeeting that was occuring was hilarious.  Things literally would get blown off screen and vanish.

 

I've tried a few stone armor sentinels on Brainstorm pushed them to ~35.  They're all extremely tight builds.  I do like stone armor but every freaking power wants to be picked and slotted.  Seems like it'd go better with a primary where there are a good number of skipable powers.

 

[lemming]

37 minutes ago, evetsleep said:

I ran a few missions without putting KB2KD in Meteor and the yeeting that was occuring was hilarious.  Things literally would get blown off screen and vanish.

I have a seismic/nature blaster that I put a KB set into meteor.   We were able to note hellions in perez would go over 500 yards.  Had to have a spotter to find them.

 

[lemming]

20 hours ago, lemming said:

I have a seismic/nature blaster that I put a KB set into meteor.   We were able to note hellions in perez would go over 500 yards.  Had to have a spotter to find them.

 

Just checked that the Seismic blast in Sentinal has the same KB as a Blaster.  So, just as yeetable

[moobiman]

I kind of miss defense opportunity. Well for my sonic/nin. 

[Wavicle]

Just now, moobiman said:

I kind of miss defense opportunity. Well for my sonic/nin. 

you have a +heal and a +end, I think you’ll be OK.

[XaoGarrent]

On 10/6/2022 at 12:03 PM, oldskool said:

The rich will get richer with this.

I think this is the most accurate thing said in regards to the sentinel changes.

 

The bump in damage did push Sentinels more firmly into their role, but it's most noticeable with sets and combos that were already borderline comparable to high performance combos from other ATs.

 

Sets and combos that were hurting before are still hurting now, demonstrating something I've suspected for a while: Much of the problem with Sentinels is on a set by set basis, or due to a wider issue in the fact Blast sets were never really optimized for use with armor sets, and vice versa. Even with the changes they made to the Sentinel versions of various sets.

 

Primary sets like Water, that have strong crowd control or mitigative effects, or powerful AoE damage, were doing good and are now doing better.

 

Primary sets like DP, which is lacking in the crowd control or mitigative department, and doesn't even have an aim clone or any click you can slot a gaussian's in, still struggle without a lot of attention or specific synergies or taxing slotting.

 

Secondary sets like Bio, which have less holes in their defense, higher values, overlapping types of defense, etc, and provide a meaningful amount of extra damage, notice either no change or a slight bump in performance.

 

Secondary sets like Fire, which has more problems on Sentinels than I really care to list here, are still struggling.

 

The overarching trend with Sentinel performance is that the top performers consistently lag behind other AT's best top performers, by a smaller or larger margin... Larger before the patch, smaller now. But the worst performers are significantly worse than most of the worst performers other ATs have, and the patch didn't help them much if at all. This isn't a new problem, it's just more apparent now.

 

To summarize, while further tweaks to the AT itself could help the AT fill its role better in a general sense, I don't think further adjustments to the AT itself would make particularly meaningful difference to balance at this time.

 

It's probably time to start looking at individual sets and asking questions like "do certain secondaries make sense mechanically/functionally," "do certain primaries need a little something extra on this AT" or "should all Sentinel secondaries have a damage boost of roughly the same power."

[drbuzzard]

nevermind

Edited October 24, 2022 by drbuzzard

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, drbuzzard said:

the idea that DP is listed as lacking mitigation when every attack can be a hold

i don’t understand this comment. What does this mean?

[drbuzzard]

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

i don’t understand this comment. What does this mean?

nevermind

Edited October 24, 2022 by drbuzzard

[Wavicle]

The Ice bullets are Slows, not Holds.

It is mitigation, as is the Toxic -Dmg, but it's not Holds.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Wavicle

[XaoGarrent]

2 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

i don’t understand this comment. What does this mean?

His response doesn't make any sense, he's arguing against points I never even made. I can't even begin to comprehend where he's coming from.

[drbuzzard]

What I get for not checking. Guess you're right. Slows it is. Though slows are considered mitigation. 

[drbuzzard]

Guess I was wrong on a core point, I'll just delete. Nevermind me.