Patrol Dump

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

I'm curious as to why you think you have to get rid of it by fighting stuff for an hour instead of just playing the game?

Because I hate having unearned xp shoved down my throat. I stated this earlier in the thread. And xp gained from not playing the game is not earned. The fact I can make it go away without using it is helpful. The fact that it can take up to an hour to make go away is not.

 

14 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

It goes away as you play and it's not as if you are bleeding it away with no effect, you are still getting the extra 50% xp whether you spend an hour fighting enemies outside or doing missions.

That 50% xp gain is still for not playing. You 'cash it in' while you play, converting patrol xp to gained xp as you earn gained xp, but it is still something I find not enjoyable.

 

16 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

it's probably a minority of a handful of people, or even literally just you, but it's never going to be popular or requested enough to warrant Dev time.

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't get anywhere, but I would be remiss if I didn't at least ask. Asking is better than just quietly seething about it.

 

16 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

The only way to avoid patrol XP is to stay logged in. Start a TF/ouro then park somewhere out of the way like the shadow shards. Then quit the TF/ouro when you want to continue. Then minimise the window and turn off your monitor.

As I told someone else, I have pages of characters. I can't not be logged off on them to avoid patrol xp. I can only keep 1 character logged on at a time. It is starting to feel like some people are telling me I should only be allowed to have 1 character. Or that the expectation is that players will only have 1 character despite having 1000 character slots per account.

[biostem]

17 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

I'm curious as to why you think you have to get rid of it by fighting stuff for an hour instead of just playing the game?

If I understand @Rudra correctly, it's about not wanting *any* XP that they did not directly earn from defeating enemies or completing quests.  Personally, I don't care about patrol XP one way or the other - that's just my interpretation of Rudra's line of thinking...

[Bionic_Flea]

I thought the patrol XP blue went away when you turn off XP.  At least, for 50s it has all the little circles filled and the bar is also filled blue and stays blue.

 

Question: Do you earn Patrol XP if you have XP turned off when you log?

 

Rudra, do you have a second account?  I wonder if killing yourself in a PvP match would be faster than letting NPCs do it . . . wait, do you get debt for PvP deaths? 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[Rudra]

Yes. All turning off xp does is stop you from earning xp from defeating mobs and completing tasks. It does not stop the accumulation of patrol xp.

[Akisan]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

If I understand @Rudra correctly, it's about not wanting *any* XP that they did not directly earn from defeating enemies or completing quests.  Personally, I don't care about patrol XP one way or the other - that's just my interpretation of Rudra's line of thinking...

 

That'd be the reason I would like it for my Silver Age character.  My current work-around with him is that the first half of every mission I play with him is with xp off, so long as he still has patrol xp. (50% xp + 50% xp + mission bonus is roughly 150% of total mission xp.) Not very exact though, as mission lengths can vary wildly, and the mission bonus isn't always proportional to the length.  Also, I'd definitely have to back off to 33-40% of the mission with no xp if I ran above +0x0, since the bonus doesn't scale with difficulty rating.

 

9 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

. . . wait, do you get debt for PvP deaths? 

 

Not last I checked.  You can get debt in those zones if an NPC defeats you, but not from other players.

[Hedgefund2]

I don't have any comment about the request.  I can't relate to the OP's problem whatsoever but I was curious about how long it took to burn off patrol XP.

 

So I started my stopwatch and logged on a 50 way at the end of the bench that would unquestionably have full patrol xp.  I was planning to go to the Hive but decided to exemp to a super lowbie level, Wincot specifically, and go to Monster Island (zone not neighborhood) where I know I can insta die to lvl 50 Rikti monkeys and hit the hosp and continue this cycle quickly because of proximity of mobs to hosp.  I have to say it was surprised how long it took.  It was nowhere near an hour+ but it was 17:46.

[Arc-Mage]

Personally I don’t believe his request is unreasonable. We received the ability to turn off INS drops and I’m pretty sure there wasn’t a big push by the player base to get that done. 

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Yes. All turning off xp does is stop you from earning xp from defeating mobs and completing tasks. It does not stop the accumulation of patrol xp.

 

I ran a test to double-check and, indeed, I earned Patrol XP even though I set myself to No XP in the settings. 

 

I think that might be the most elegant solution -- make turning off XP also turn off Patrol XP. 

 

It makes intuitive sense and lets players select 'No XP' just before logging to avoid it and turn it back on when they start, or just leave it off if they are done with or not interested in Incarnate progress.  Standard code rant applies, of course.  It could be as easy as a switch or as difficult as brain surgery.

[Keen]

Haven't read the whole thread for suggestions on how to die quickly, but how about the walls on Praetoria maps?

[Rudra]

The sonic fences of Praetoria are guaranteed kills, but they aren't near the base portals or hospitals if I remember correctly.

[Arbegla]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:20 PM, Rudra said:

Yes. All turning off xp does is stop you from earning xp from defeating mobs and completing tasks. It does not stop the accumulation of patrol xp.

 

For a level 50 character, you could get really really close to leveling up (full bars) then turn off XP. You'll still get patrol XP, but you wont visually be able to see it. You also won't get anymore Vet levels, but I'm not sure that is a concern of yours.

[Arbegla]

Another way to die quickly would be to go to Siren's Call, and jump into the 'hot spot' zones where all of the NPCs group up before fighting each other. Even if you get a hot spot that is out of the way, its a quick run back, and they will slaughter you quickly.

[Draeth Darkstar]

It seems to me like you could solve this "problem" for yourself just fine by turning off EXP gains 50% of the time you're playing. You'd be "paying for" the extra EXP you earn from Patrol EXP without wasting any of your time committing suicide over and over...

Edited November 25, 2022 by Draeth Darkstar

[Rudra]

No, it doesn't, because the bars are still there. If you had actually read the thread instead of skimming, you would have seen that was part of the problem and your solution had already been presented and told it did not help. Otherwise, I would already just be doing that.

[Rudra]

One thing I find... interesting... since I made this thread, is the hypocrisy.

 

"This power's visual FX bothers me. Can I have the option to turn it off?"       "Yes! Great! More options is better!"

 

"Patrol XP bothers me. Can I have the option to turn it off?"                          "That's a weird reason. No. Get over it."

 

It's like turning off general xp is okay, but how dare someone ask to be able to turn off patrol xp.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Rudra

[lemming]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

One thing I find... interesting... since I made this thread, is the hypocrisy.

 

"This power's visual FX bothers me. Can I have the option to turn it off?"       "Yes! Great! More options is better!"

 

"Patrol XP bothers me. Can I have the option to turn it off?"                          "That's a weird reason. No. Get over it."

 

It's like turning off general xp is okay, but how dare someone ask to be able to turn off patrol xp.

I think the number of people that are bothered by Patrol XP is massively lower than the number of people bothered by Hasten's glowing hands.

 

Of the various options, I'd prefer the "If No XP toggled, no patrol XP accumulates" though that will have an effect on some of mine, I can work around it, and your having to kill yourself to remove it is more an issue.

 

What I do, when a character is offline, they're doing more than patrol, but a good work/super/life balance probably helps the XP flow more efficiently after one is done resting.    Plenty of studies have shown a short work week produces more output over the long term.

 

On quick offing yourself:

Eden for < lvl 35, the DE near the hospital beds are fast

The Hive hosp works for 45+; Just tested it out and took 3 minutes to wipe out my 50s patrol XP on a blaster.  A tanker might take slightly more time

[Rudra]

I opened the OP acknowledging that the player base that may be affected by this may only be me. I understand that would not be justification to do this and accept that this is not likely to happen. As @Akisan pointed out though, there are other players that would like to be able to turn off patrol xp as well, just for different reasons. The frustration is the dug in stances of individuals trying to find a reason to disagree with this. That it may not be the best use of dev time is an argument I was prepared for and willing to accept. That the Live devs didn't conceive that anyone would have any problems with having yet more xp shoved down their throat and so further spaghettified the code making this change less than practical or feasible was another death knell I was prepared to hear. The hypocrisy of some of the arguments against the OP however?

 

Let's start with a "fun" response. "Just put a piece of tape over it until it goes away." The player's character is always in the center of the screen. So if players are unhappy with a power's visual FX on their character, why not just put a piece of tape over it? Voila! No more power FX to bother that player. Or maybe that player shouldn't use that power. Or that power set. All three responses are equally nonsense. Players are free to play what they want. And you can't just put a piece of tape or other obstruction because now you are blocking the screen and reducing their ability to even play. (And how is the player, in this case me, supposed to know when it has gone away if that part of the screen is obstructed from view anyway?)

 

Some of the comments boil down to "just deal with it". Again with powers and their visual FX, why not tell them to "just deal with it" as well? After all, unlike with patrol xp, if that player disables the visual FX of a power, it only applies to that player's character. Other characters using the same power will have that visual FX going. Because the player does not like it on his/her character? Well, that's a weird reason, so no. (Hint: It's not a weird reason. It is a personal one.) And yet, the forums are mostly fine with requests to minimize or do away with power visual FX as an option. And it is something every player in the character's vicinity can see and thus be "affected" by. As opposed to something that only the player in question can see such as patrol xp.

 

Or how about comments posing incredulity at the thought of the request asking if I am fine with other day job powers? Here is the thing. I and a few friends I know all avoid day job locations after we get the badges for them. We don't want the day job powers/effects. So we avoid them. Except there is no way to avoid patrol xp from the Patroller day job. Because the Patroller day job is literally everywhere in the game. There are only two ways to avoid it. The first way is to always be logged in on that character. Which cannot be done if you have two or more characters. So that isn't an option. The second is to remove the character. From the game. To be added back in to be played later with no loss of levels or starting over. That's even less possible than the first way. So there is absolutely no way to avoid patrol xp.

 

6 hours ago, lemming said:

On quick offing yourself:

Eden for < lvl 35, the DE near the hospital beds are fast

The Hive hosp works for 45+; Just tested it out and took 3 minutes to wipe out my 50s patrol XP on a blaster.  A tanker might take slightly more time

The character that prompted the OP was a level 44 Blaster who had all defensive toggles turned off and jumped into a group of all purple mobs. Your suggestion here has an 11 level gap. Can't get into the Hive and Eden isn't a threat. And with all level 48 CoT mobs including a boss attacking my level 44 Blaster with no active defenses or bonus HP from enhancements or enhancement set bonuses, and with that spawn being almost at the base portal allowing me to immediately jump back into the group over and over, it took 52 minutes to get rid of patrol xp.

 

The ability to turn off xp doesn't bother the people responding on this thread. It boggles their mind to ask to be able to turn off patrol xp though. Why? What is the difference? They are both xp. Why is one okay to turn off but not the other? I would be perfectly fine if patrol xp was tied into the option to turn xp off and on. It makes logging my characters on and off a 2-step process instead of 1. That's fine. Great even. I'd be fine with a contact or object that I can turn over all my patrol xp to for absolutely no gain. I would be fine with a bought single use power from P2W or others that obliterated all currently gained patrol xp on a character. I'll make sure I have the funds to buy it each time for all my characters. I'm fine with pretty much every provided solution that isn't "deal with it", "suck it up", or just plain "no". I can accept those responses, they are inevitable. It is the hypocrisy of those posters that frustrates me.

 

The root oppositon to the OP seems to be because the OP does not benefit some people, so it shouldn't provide benefit to others either.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Rudra
Edited for multiple grammatical and spelling errors.

[biostem]

@Rudra I think, at this point, that this thread is going in circles.  You don't want *any* un-earned XP, and while patrol XP isn't a "problem", per se, I can at least understand where you're coming from with your request for shutting off XP gain to affect Patrol XP.  Either way, I'm in favor of more OPTIONS, so yeah...

[battlewraith]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

The ability to turn off xp doesn't bother the people responding on this thread. It boggles their mind to ask to be able to turn off patrol xp though. Why? What is the difference? They are both xp.

 

Yes they are both xp, which basically undermines the whole complaint. It may be annoying or an inconvenience, but there is a solution that has been discussed by multiple people. Simply factor the patrol xp into the overall amount and turn off xp to compensate. His wall of text pretty much glosses this over.

 

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Let's start with a "fun" response. "Just put a piece of tape over it until it goes away." The player's character is always in the center of the screen. So if players are unhappy with a power's visual FX on their character, why not just put a piece of tape over it? Voila! No more power FX to bother that player. Or maybe that player shouldn't use that power. Or that power set. All three responses are equally nonsense. Players are free to play what they want. And you can't just put a piece of tape or other obstruction because now you are blocking the screen and reducing their ability to even play. (And how is the player, in this case me, supposed to know when it has gone away if that part of the screen is obstructed from view anyway?)

 

LMAO.

The tape thing didn't strike me as a serious response but he wrestled with it anyway. And still came up with a bad analogy. The character and it's animations are core gameplay. The little patrol xp bar is not, unless for some reason you put it in the center of the screen and stare at it constantly. Options for customization are good, but there is a certain point at which you have to accept the UI and it's features. What if someone objects to xp bars in general? Or is rankled by squarish text windows? 

[MistressOhm]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:18 AM, Rudra said:

I asked on a previous thread for the option to be able to turn off patrol xp. So, I'm here now hoping an alternate request will find more acceptance.

 

I normally only have around an hour to play at a time. I logged on a level 44 Blaster I wanted to play that I had not played in a while, and used a +4 spawn of 4 CoT in the Portal Corporation parking lot since they were so readily accessible to get rid of my patrol xp. I jumped into the group at 11:18. I finally finished getting rid of patrol xp at 12:10. That was 52 minutes of my roughly hour spent doing nothing but trying to get destroyed to get rid of patrol xp.

 

I already know I'm in the minority on this. Hells, I'm probably the only person that cares about this. However, I would really like a way to not deal with this every time I log on to a character I haven't played in a while. If the answer to an option that must be enabled by the player to disable patrol xp is out of the question, then can we maybe get someone or something that we can just dump our patrol xp into to get rid of it? Maybe a PPD officer blue side, Arachnos agent red side, and angry citizen or something gold side that the character walks up to and gets a "NOPE!" from as our patrol xp goes away. I don't care what it is.

 

FIFTY-TWO MINUTES to get rid of patrol xp! Please.

 

Patrol XP is a benefit of a character's "Day Job" (what they do when You, the Player, are not making them be heroic or villainous).  It's basically "Rested" XP that you get from other games, where time logged out charges a meter so when you log back in you have a period of time to level faster. 

 

 There currently is no mechanic to 'turn it off' because it's considered a Gaming Ergonomics and Safety issue.  You can toggle XP gain on and off. That's it.

 

If you want to delete it, go to a high-level zone, no armor, no auras, with a tray full of Wakes, and punch a purple mob in the face.  Burn all the Wakes to rez in place, get faceplanted. When you're out of Wakes, rez at hospital and restock. 

 

 If the zone is high enough, you should be able to turn that Patrol XP into XP Debt (what you get when you're defeated) within a few minutes, not an hour.   

 

Or you could use it as it was intended.  Get into a mission arc.  Join a task/strike force.  Level up a few bars. 

 

It'll get burnt either way.

Edited November 27, 2022 by MistressOhm

[Rudra]

24 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

If the zone is high enough, you should be able to turn that Patrol XP into XP Debt (what you get when you're defeated) within a few minutes, not an hour.   

You obviously didn't read what I posted.

[MistressOhm]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

You obviously didn't read what I posted.

 

How long was the character in question logged off? A day? a week? Several months?  

 

The longest I've had a character sit 'idle' is 55 days.  When I logged back on to that character I had five bars worth of patrol saved up.  I used it all in about an hour of street sweeping.  Another character that had about two bars worth, I lost it all because I'd forgotten that I'd set them to higher notoriety, and encountered purples in a mission instance.  Two Wakes later, those two bars were gone.  5 minutes, tops, to earn the equivalent amount of Debt to zero it out.

 

NOW... I am NOT saying there Should Not Be a toggle to turn Patrol on and off.  If there was one, I'd not use it, but that's no reason to say not to put one in.  However, what I am saying is, that no toggle currently exists, and because the Patrol XP mechanic encourages people to Not Play All The Time (you know, real life concerns) I believe that getting HC's devs to burn limited manpower and coding bandwidth to implement such a switch is ... not likely. 

 

Thus, since this is the second time you've chosen to basically rant about this one minor feature, and apparently NOT understand or appreciate the work that would go into coding your desired feature, testing it, balancing it, and making sure it didn't break anything else... yeah, I'm not sympathetic. Sorry.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by MistressOhm

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, MistressOhm said:

Thus, since this is the second time you've chosen to basically rant about this one minor feature, and apparently NOT understand or appreciate the work that would go into coding your desired feature, testing it, balancing it, and making sure it didn't break anything else... yeah, I'm not sympathetic. Sorry.

Yeah, you definitely didn't read my post.

 

To answer your question? My level 44 Blaster had more bars of patrol xp than would show on the available bars I had. So probably the full 10 bars of patrol xp. And even the 1 person that tried to get rid of that much patrol xp with a stop watch took almost 18 minutes Ouro'ing down and then getting ripped apart by Monster Island (zone) Rikti monkeys. So no, it cannot be gotten rid of in just a few minutes. Don't believe me or that other person? Then take a full 10 bars of patrol xp and get rid of it. And if you can trim it down to a few minutes? I'm all ears.

 

And I did acknowledge and I do appreciate the amount of work it would take for the devs to do this. Since we already ahve the ability to turn off xp though? Likely not as much work as you are implying.

 

Edit: Also, if the extent of someone's argument against a suggestion is that it will require coding, testing, balancing, and making sure it doesn't break anything? Then there is no argument against. Everything that is suggested/requested by players and everything a dev may initiate from own desire will require all that work. So oh no, I requested work in modifying the game. (Also, there is no balance consideration for the option to turn off patrol xp or quickly get rid of it.) And just because a person doesn't open with something that apologizes for the audacity of asking for the work to have something implemented, changed, or fixed; or doesn't spout off about the potential work involved, does not mean that the requestor is not aware of or appreciative of the work involved. Everything we ask requires work on the devs part.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Rudra

[espectro]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

Then take a full 10 bars of patrol xp and get rid of it. And if you can trim it down to a few minutes? I'm all ears.

 

 

you were already told. your just ignoring it.

PLAN. Don't burn it away all at once. either turn off xp a certain amount of time to balance. or die once or twice every time you play on purpose to gradually burn it off. you are the only one insisting that you have to burn it all off imediately.

 

thats 2 solutions for the xp problem! The real thing you bitching about is having to look at a tiny blue bar on the screen that you can ignore. Devs shouldn't waste time on something tiny thats for looks. talk to coh modding community. have girlfriend boyfriend or small child hold their finger over bar and tell you soothing stories cuz you get so mad about this stuff.

[Akisan]

13 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

If the zone is high enough, you should be able to turn that Patrol XP into XP Debt (what you get when you're defeated) within a few minutes, not an hour.

 

While generally true, 44 (the blaster @Rudra used as an example) is possibly the worst level for that, since you can only find +6's for that.  And some of that timeframe will be based on a toon's inherent defenses - a blaster with no defenses will go down a lot faster than a blaster with 20-30% Ranged/AoE defense from their sets (can't be de-toggled).  Especially if they don't fight back.  (As an aside, +6's only get a 5% to-hit bonus, so defense is still pretty effective against them)

 

13 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

 

There currently is no mechanic to 'turn it off' because it's considered a Gaming Ergonomics and Safety issue.  You can toggle XP gain on and off. That's it.

 

If you want to delete it, go to a high-level zone, no armor, no auras, with a tray full of Wakes, and punch a purple mob in the face.  Burn all the Wakes to rez in place, get faceplanted. When you're out of Wakes, rez at hospital and restock.

 

I remember that era in gaming, when some really bad "gaming safety" systems were added.  Not all are bad, but it's the thought that counts...

 

And wakies still grant 10s of Debt protection - just enough that it can be difficult to optimize how often the group downs you.

 

1 hour ago, espectro said:

you were already told. your just ignoring it.

PLAN. Don't burn it away all at once. either turn off xp a certain amount of time to balance. or die once or twice every time you play on purpose to gradually burn it off. you are the only one insisting that you have to burn it all off imediately.

 

thats 2 solutions for the xp problem! The real thing you bitching about is having to look at a tiny blue bar on the screen that you can ignore. Devs shouldn't waste time on something tiny thats for looks. talk to coh modding community. have girlfriend boyfriend or small child hold their finger over bar and tell you soothing stories cuz you get so mad about this stuff.

And yet, it would still be convenient to have for certain toons (RP, as well as mechanical work-arounds).  Again, I have a Silver Age toon that does not want the extra xp (as Patrol XP didn't exist then), and a couple toons that are "level pacted", and I'd appreciate not having to play with my Disable/Enable XP toggle every time we get close to leveling. (and, @espectro, intentional or not, you're coming off as rather condescending here.  Please be more careful with your tone, insulting people isn't helpful in an honest discussion)

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

And I did acknowledge and I do appreciate the amount of work it would take for the devs to do this. Since we already ahve the ability to turn off xp though? Likely not as much work as you are implying.

 

While it would probably be a (somewhat) quick fix, simply a menu option or two (enable/disable patrol xp gain and/or conversion), @GM Crumpet did already state that we're very unlikely to get this, as only a few of us are likely to use this option.  Unfortunate, but it's nice to have confirmation.