Indiana Jones and the... Dial Of Destiny?

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

 

...okay, not the most inspiring title, and certainly not an enlightening one.

But dammit, this looks like proper Indy.

 

What do we know?

• This is absolutely, positively, the last Ford Indy film. (As the man said: "I'm not falling down for you again.")
• Nazis? In America? Whodathunkit. While it's a little on the nose right now, this lot are the real deal.
• Setting is 1969 USA, at the height of the Space Race - making Indy 70 years old, and a lot more mileage.
• This ties neatly into our big bad Voller (Mads Mikkelsen), who was imported via Operation Paperclip, and loosely based on Wernher Von Braun.
• Indy knows him and intensely dislikes the fact that the US is giving a home to his kind.
• Mikkelsen mentioned his character's motivation is to "correct the mistakes of the past", so... time travel, or something a little weirder?
• There seems to be a lot of Greek architecture and mathematical imagery around the aforementioned Dial. If that statue's who I think it is, Pythagoras is best known today for irritating geometry students. But also had interests in astronomy, music... and reincarnation, the ability to recall past lives, and quite a lot of other mystical stuff. That opens up more possibilities as to what this Dial does when you turn it up to έντεκα.
• Phoebe WB being Proper Adventurous as new sidekick Helena, who is apparently quite the con artist. 
• Indy refers to her as his god-daughter... is that part of their con act, or does that mean she's Helena Brody?
• Some classic Indy gags - car chases, duelling tuktuks, and racing a horse through the subway - plus getting in way over his head (again).
• There'll also be a bit with a digitally de-aged Harrison and Mads set in 1944. Whether that's a cold open or a rewind, we do not yet know.
• Additional cast: John Rhys-Davis is back as Sallah, plus Toby Jones, Boyd Holbrook, Shaunette Renée Wilson, and Antonio Banderas in an as-yet-undisclosed role.

Edited December 1, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Glacier Peak]

I saw this and I was like, holy cow he's still alive? Wasn't he canonically born in the 19th century? 

 

Did he get resurrected? Is that a plot point? Where is Mutt? Where is his wife Mary? Where are the aliens and crystal skull? Ah I'm already thinking too much! It's a popcorn flick, I'll watch it and enjoy the classic score!

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

6 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I saw this and I was like, holy cow he's still alive? Wasn't he canonically born in the 19th century? 

 

Did he get resurrected? Is that a plot point? Where is Mutt? Where is his wife Mary? Where are the aliens and crystal skull? Ah I'm already thinking too much! It's a popcorn flick, I'll watch it and enjoy the classic score!

 

Indy was 13 during the Last Crusade cold open, which was set in 1912. So, born 1899.

Marion/Karen Allen may or may not be in the movie - she's currently not listed on main cast - so Indy may or may not be a widow at this point.

 

If you want classic score: here's Helena's (very 30s/40s femme fatale) Theme.

 

Oh, and Mutt died on the way back to his home planet.

Edited December 1, 2022 by ThaOGDreamWeaver

[Glacier Peak]

32 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

Indy was 13 during the Last Crusade cold open, which was set in 1912. So, born 1899.

Marion/Karen Allen may or may not be in the movie - she's currently not listed on main cast - so Indy may or may not be a widow at this point.

 

If you want classic score: here's Helena's (very 30s/40s femme fatale) Theme.

 

Oh, and Mutt died on the way back to his home planet.

John Williams always ❤️ 

[TheOtherTed]

I'll admit - my brain's second reaction to the title was "Indiana Jones and the Teasmade of Time."

 

Skeptically optimistic.  Much as I love Harrison Ford, IMO he hasn't interviewed well as he's aged, and for that reason I haven't watched anything he's been in for a while.  But if someone can tell me he's got an Avery Brooks thing going on (rambling and borderline incomprehensible when unscripted, but fantastic on screen), I'd definitely give this a try.

 

Also, how was "Bladerunner 2049"?  Didn't even know that was a thing until I reviewed his filmography.

[Sakai]

Didn't he drink from the holy graile? Think he will live a while.

[Techwright]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:09 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

...okay, not the most inspiring title, and certainly not an enlightening one.

But dammit, this looks like proper Indy.

 

What do we know?

• This is absolutely, positively, the last Ford Indy film. (As the man said: "I'm not falling down for you again.")  Maybe for Ford, but I can think of one or two others who could handle the role, albeit with a different take on it (*cough*Chris Pratt*cough*)
• Nazis? In America? Whodathunkit. While it's a little on the nose right now, this lot are the real deal.  It's probably going to go the Marvel route and we're essentially seeing Indy's take on Hydra's infiltration.
• Setting is 1969 USA, at the height of the Space Race - making Indy 70 years old, and a lot more mileage.  I'll address that with Sakai's comment further down.
• This ties neatly into our big bad Voller (Mads Mikkelsen), who was imported via Operation Paperclip, and loosely based on Wernher Von Braun.
• Indy knows him and intensely dislikes the fact that the US is giving a home to his kind.
• Mikkelsen mentioned his character's motivation is to "correct the mistakes of the past", so... time travel, or something a little weirder? Makes sense, and makes sense of the "Dial of Destiny" title.  Crazy thought...could a time travel story allow the Indy franchise to bring in a new, younger actor for the role going forward?
• There seems to be a lot of Greek architecture and mathematical imagery around the aforementioned Dial. If that statue's who I think it is, Pythagoras is best known today for irritating geometry students. But also had interests in astronomy, music... and reincarnation, the ability to recall past lives, and quite a lot of other mystical stuff. That opens up more possibilities as to what this Dial does when you turn it up to έντεκα. I'm wondering if they found inspiration for the Dial in the Antikythera Mechanism.
• Phoebe WB being Proper Adventurous as new sidekick Helena, who is apparently quite the con artist.  Another crazy thought: could they be prepping a spin-off series focused on Helena? Something to fill the void when Harrison is gone?
• Indy refers to her as his god-daughter... is that part of their con act, or does that mean she's Helena Brody?  Stop making so much good sense!
• Some classic Indy gags - car chases, duelling tuktuks, and racing a horse through the subway - plus getting in way over his head (again).
• There'll also be a bit with a digitally de-aged Harrison and Mads set in 1944. Whether that's a cold open or a rewind, we do not yet know.
• Additional cast: John Rhys-Davis is back as Sallah, plus Toby Jones, Boyd Holbrook, Shaunette Renée Wilson, and Antonio Banderas in an as-yet-undisclosed role.  Honestly, they had me at John Rhys-Davis.  I mean, I watched that truly dreadful Kings Solomon's Mines all the way through just because he was in it. He was the best part, easily. Everything that man does has gold in it.  It may be a gilded piece of trash, but still. (Looking at you The Shannara Chronicles. 😒) And I love the character of Sallah.  So glad to see him back.

 

On 12/1/2022 at 6:35 PM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

Indy was 13 during the Last Crusade cold open, which was set in 1912. So, born 1899.

Marion/Karen Allen may or may not be in the movie - she's currently not listed on main cast - so Indy may or may not be a widow at this point.  Karen Allen had stepped away from the camera for a few years when they asked her to come back for the last Indy movie.  She only does occasional stuff since then.  I'm suspicious they may give her a cameo, like a "the one to come home to" scene at the end.

 

If you want classic score: here's Helena's (very 30s/40s femme fatale) Theme.

 

Oh, and Mutt died on the way back to his home planet.  🤣  They'll probably just say Mutt's off having an adventure elsewhere.  Or in the therapy ward recovering from an accident where he busted his hand.  😉

 

23 hours ago, Sakai said:

Didn't he drink from the holy graile? Think he will live a while.  Interesting that you should say that.  Largely forgotten today, there was the Young Indiana Jones TV series from the early 1990s.  It was blessed by George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, though I don't know how involved from day-to-day they were. (Spielberg has done the occasional TV series.) In it, an Indy in his 90's relates tales of adventures from his youth.  A different actor played the old Indy, and...Indy had a patch over one eye from some injury sustained previously.  Could this final Harrison Ford film show that injury?

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Techwright
added content

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

3 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Karen Allen had stepped away from the camera for a few years when they asked her to come back for the last Indy movie.  She only does occasional stuff since then.

Last credit I can find for her is V/O for Ethan Hawke's rather fine doco-series The Last Movie Stars, voicing Frances Woodward's memoirs. TBH, after the experience of Crystal Skull, I'd be wary about coming back to the series as well. 

 

11 minutes ago, Techwright said:

...there was the Young Indiana Jones TV series from the early 1990s.

I think this was on Sky in the UK, so I didn't manage to catch it. I'm kinda surprised that hasn't shown up on D+, Amazon or Netflix yet: along with the companion historical documentaries, but I think History Channel had the rights to them at the time. (They'd probably never show them on the main channel again, because they contain actual history.)

This does beg the question, mind: if these are canon, then they can't do a blaze-of-glory ending for Indy. Unless we're mucking around with narrative causality...

 

16 minutes ago, Techwright said:

They'll probably just say Mutt's off having an adventure elsewhere. 

...on the way to his home planet, where he died. I will accept no other canon.

 

There was a fair bit wrong with Crystal Skull, and Shia's character was a fair bit of that. Though Shia himself hadn't got, er, difficult by that point, I have a feeling that's where things kicked off. Harrison genuinely liked the kid right up until he started badmouthing the movie.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

New trailer from SW Celebration is up…

 

Yup, we’re doing the timewarp. But from some of these scenes I’m not sure if it affects what time people are in, how old they are, or somehow both…

[InvaderStych]

On 12/2/2022 at 4:24 AM, TheOtherTed said:

Also, how was "Bladerunner 2049"?  Didn't even know that was a thing until I reviewed his filmography.

 

It was really pretty to look at, and they did the correct thing by not giving Gosling a lot of words so it is a bit like watching him in one of Winding-Refn's movies (Drive, Only God Forgives).

 

Considering my massive affection for the original, I didn't find any reason for Nerd Rage though. Give it a go if you want some eye candy. 😄

[Techwright]

7 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

New trailer from SW Celebration is up…

 

Yup, we’re doing the timewarp. But from some of these scenes I’m not sure if it affects what time people are in, how old they are, or somehow both…

 

Was that Toby Jones who accidentally fired the gun? 

 

Okay, I'm interested.  With a Dial of Destiny, Indy can knock out Hitler over 200 times.

 

Actually, this makes me really wish they'd reboot or continue The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles that I've mentioned before.

[Techwright]

I've noticed a lack of comments since the film came out.  Critics have actually given it lower marks than ...and the Crystal Skull.  That sounds ominous, but I've learned from other movies to never put much stock in critics' reports.  Rotten Tomatoes is reporting audience enjoyment at 20% higher than that of critics.  So...is this one to catch in theaters? or better to wait for the home release?

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

The comments I've seen/heard from actual humans who've seen it...

 

...it's a perfectly fine popcorn flick to spend an afternoon with. Not quite as good as the first three, but substantially better than Crystal Skull (mainly as it doesn't have Mutt in it - though his character's non-appearance is used as a solid plot beat.)

 

You have to wonder if some critics are getting particularly nasty on editor instruction, because a B-movie can't be... a B+. Because that doesn't make good clickbait. 

[Techwright]

47 minutes ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 

You have to wonder if some critics are getting particularly nasty on editor instruction, because a B-movie can't be... a B+. Because that doesn't make good clickbait. 

 

The very reason why I'm very careful trusting any YouTuber reviews of movies.  If I see one vid whose title preaches doom and gloom, but maybe less so than other tripe, I'll first go look at the titles of the channels other vids.  Invariably I'll know afterwards whether they present a balanced viewpoint or not.  Usually not.

[Etched]

SPOILER!

 

The opennin sceen is BS. He would of died once the bomb went off. The explosion would'nt of killed him but the jerkin around with a noose around his neck would of seperated his head from the rest of his body. 

 

After that I enjoyed it like all the rest.

 

@Etched

[Clave Dark 5]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:55 AM, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

The comments I've seen/heard from actual humans who've seen it...

 

...it's a perfectly fine popcorn flick to spend an afternoon with. Not quite as good as the first three, but substantially better than Crystal Skull (mainly as it doesn't have Mutt in it - though his character's non-appearance is used as a solid plot beat.)

 

You have to wonder if some critics are getting particularly nasty on editor instruction, because a B-movie can't be... a B+. Because that doesn't make good clickbait. 

That's my take on it, the conspiracy theory about journalists aside.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Quick followup: finally got round to seeing Indy in a completely full theatre - not one spare seat, several weeks after release. 

Very solid entry in the series, way better than KoCS, and the twist ending was fun even if quite well-signalled as to what was going to happen - but why it happened was a great touch.

 

Also loved the portrayal of 60s NYC, with Indy having had to trade down from Marshall Uni to Hunter Community College.

(Though why appears to have cut: in press kits, there were references to Indy's objections to Nazis being allowed into the states for Paperclip, and his position was rapidly made untenable.)

 

Mutt getting Poochie'd was handled very well and provided the core motivation for a large chunk of the story. Very impressed by the de-aging CGI in the flashback sequences - clearly they've been doing some serious work on that - and pretty decent action sequences.

 

Gripes: Phoebe WB might been over-Mary Sue'd just a touch but still a very rounded and appealing character, and some of the sequences needed a little more editing. 

 

Other than that... we dig. And a decent way to hang up the hat.

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

 Very impressed by the de-aging CGI in the flashback sequences - clearly they've been doing some serious work on that

 

Just a guess, but Lucasfilm's other little project, The Mandalorian had a huge leap in facial de-aging between the last episode of Season 2, and season 2.5 The Book of Boba Fett thanks to their recognizing the talents of one YouTuber and hiring him.  I'm going to guess that part of his contract was to teach the others at Industrial Light and Magic, which would lead to the results you observed.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Techwright

[BrandX]

Was not full at my theatre on opening day, but let me say, while I didn't care for Mutt, I neither wished his character dead and my problems with KotCS was some of the CGI scenes more than anything...gah, that monkey vine swing scene...how did they not see that as being so bad?

 

For tDoD, it was an okay Indy film.  It was a terrible send off.  Never should've killed off Mutt.  That was a terrible choice.  Wombat and her wannabe Short Wound, not the best.  I have heard people complain about the CGI/Old Indy voice on the face of younger Indy...didn't bother me.

 

I did love seeing Marion at the end tho 🙂

[Ashington]

There is only one true continuation of the original Trilogy:

 

[Techwright]

Not really Dial of Destiny news, but the news broke that they named a newly-discovered species of snake after Harrison Ford.

 

"Snakes.  Why'd it have to be snakes?"  🐍  🤣

 

While I thought this was a gentle ribbing at his Indiana Jones character, it was actually done in honor of his years of environmental work.

 

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

On 12/1/2022 at 4:32 PM, Glacier Peak said:

I saw this and I was like, holy cow he's still alive? Wasn't he canonically born in the 19th century? 

 

Did he get resurrected? Is that a plot point? Where is Mutt? Where is his wife Mary? Where are the aliens and crystal skull? Ah I'm already thinking too much! It's a popcorn flick, I'll watch it and enjoy the classic score!

Finally got around to watching this a year later. I thought it was true to the series. Classic villains, chases, and mcguffin.

 

Spoilers ahead:

Quote

 

I'll say my one gripe though - if you're going to bring back a beloved cinema icon, at least have the decency to make a proper send off film. The ending left me with no sense of conclusion or finality. There was so much to the story that could've been explored with that mcguffin - Indy a professor of antiquities, history buff, a learned man of 28 languages, and yet none of that was applied to the script.

 

To me, this felt like a character who no longer had a purpose in the modern era. In fact, the film spent the majority of the time reinforcing this by having Indy watch people he knows die. 

 

Space race! Time travel! De-aging CGI! The script had so many places it could've gone. Aside from that, it was the last film of the series, which is rather sad. 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Glacier Peak
Can't figure out where the spoiler function is at...

[Voltor]

On 8/8/2023 at 10:50 AM, BrandX said:

Was not full at my theatre on opening day, but let me say, while I didn't care for Mutt, I neither wished his character dead and my problems with KotCS was some of the CGI scenes more than anything...gah, that monkey vine swing scene...how did they not see that as being so bad?

 

For tDoD, it was an okay Indy film.  It was a terrible send off.  Never should've killed off Mutt.  That was a terrible choice.  Wombat and her wannabe Short Wound, not the best.  I have heard people complain about the CGI/Old Indy voice on the face of younger Indy...didn't bother me.

 

I did love seeing Marion at the end tho 🙂

 

 

They should have recast Mutt and passed the Fedora to him.

 

However as weak and bad as this movie was, I would rather watch Indiana Jones 4 and 5 and the Star Wars Holiday Special then Matrix 4.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Voltor said:

 

 

They should have recast Mutt and passed the Fedora to him.

 

However as weak and bad as this movie was, I would rather watch Indiana Jones 4 and 5 and the Star Wars Holiday Special then Matrix 4.

 

Matrix 4 was so bad!

[Excraft]

14 hours ago, Voltor said:

They should have recast Mutt and passed the Fedora to him.

 

No, they shouldn't have.  Nor should this or the last Indiana Jones film ever been made.  All of these studios trying to resurrect properties and stars older than dirt to milk as much as possible out of them is what's getting old.  I wonder how many mega flops it will take before these movie studios start creating new stuff again?