"Icoulddobetteritis"

[MoonSheep]

7 minutes ago, SteelRat70 said:

 

Thank you.  I appreciate that.  Is MoonSheep your global?  Most of my alts are on Excelsior too

 

@Moon Sheep 🙂

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, lemming said:

My do all the content with a Bio/EM Tank is up to level 19.  Currently doing the blue side and will then do the red.  then level up, do that red stuff, then back to blue.

One thing I have noticed, more of the pointless, hunt a bunch of mobs on the blue side so far.

I did this last year on a Dark Invul Brute. Every contact.  I completed every contact in the game that can not be done at 50 organically.  It was hard.  I doubt i will do that again lol. 
 

Good luck.  

[VashNKnives]

Random is awesome. I can't have fun and force myself to act random and NPC are not capable either. People doing random things that force me to react is what brings out the best online experiences.

 

I also get bored on steamroller teams and well-oiled farming. Although there is a line between random and annoying. Where annoying folks seem to particularly disregard all semblance of care for other players' time and patience.

Edited January 8, 2023 by VashNKnives

[Neiska]

A few thoughts.

The first, I am glad to see this ship of a topic begin to flounder and start to resemble many others but then right itself. Not something we see a lot of and its refreshing, IMO.

The second, not everyone is going to agree with what is "good" or "best." And that's okay.

The third, "how" you say something is often just as important as "what" you say. If I see someone floundering, first I ask if they would like some input. Its only polite, and as is often the case, you might find out you, (the would be mentor) are the one making the assumptions in the scenario. Often enough, the person knows its not the kiss-your-elbow optimized, but they might just be having fun, trying something new, or theory crafting. You are only assuming they may not know what they are doing, when the reality is you are taking them at face value which can lead to you, yourself being the one assuming things.

The fourth, is if people refuse your guidance, however well-meaning or mathematically superior it might be, then accept their decision. It's their character. You can't dictate or lecture to them how to play. Your goal might be to be as effective/fast/powerful as possible. But that's not everyone's goal. Other people might just want to have fun, or take powers they like, or be building on a theme (theme builds are often far from optimized). And your suggestion might only be the best in a specific situation or goal, namely beating the game as much as possible. 

Finally, for the record, I would sooner play with a new player who is polite with a bad build, than someone with the best possible build but who can be a jerk trying to tell me how to play, and how to build my character "their" way, and how I'm bad/newb/whatever if I do anything else. CoH used to be the "play your way" game. They even incorporated it into the game design, where nearly any team combined out of any powersets can complete all activities. The only difference is "how", the time required, and the difficulty. And lets not forget, that different people react differently to different kinds of instruction. Some learn best by reading. Others by visualizing. Others by actually doing and learning through trial and error themselves. And trying to force the issue can go south, fast. As we see in this topic.

And honestly, a team full of kiss-your-elbow min/maxed meta builds full of purples and t4's can be pretty dang boring. But that's just my opinion.

 

Mentorship is well and good, admirable in fact. But how you communicate as well as receive other opinions are just as important. Most of communication is actually non-verbal. Tone of voice, body language, gestures, facial expressions, and the like. And on the internet we loose all of that. All we have is text. It's impossible to tell if someone is telling a "hard truth" but in a kind manner. It's can also be difficult to tell when someone is being snarky. Unless of course, you are Snarky, then it's all the time.

 

TLDR - Mentorship/Guidance can be awesome. It's like passing the torch and sharing your knowledge. But how you do so is important, and often can decide how well your proteges learn, more so than the information itself.

 

My two cents, for what it's worth.

[Seed22]

On 1/6/2023 at 2:28 PM, biostem said:

Then there's some sort of deficiency or some other component that's missing - remember, my premise is that the person *does* have the key powers in question.  That means that had to make the conscious decision to take said power(s).  If you chose to take a power, but also choose not to use said power, then something went wrong.  I'm not talking about spamming the power nonstop, but I'm not talking about a single oversight in using it, either. 

Oh I agree. But the issue being more hoarse to water imo. 
 

We’ve got em at the lake but the bugger won’t drink. Outside of spending a lot of time for ultimately no gain(considering this is a no consequence activity really) I   Just get through the content ASAP. I don’t like it, but given the playerbase is semi in flux, with skill level also being in flux, to keep myself from getting irritated, I just…stopped trying with em.

[Snarky]

16 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Oh I agree. But the issue being more hoarse to water imo. 
 

We’ve got em at the lake but the bugger won’t drink. Outside of spending a lot of time for ultimately no gain(considering this is a no consequence activity really) I   Just get through the content ASAP. I don’t like it, but given the playerbase is semi in flux, with skill level also being in flux, to keep myself from getting irritated, I just…stopped trying with em.

Quite right.  A year ago is was uncommon to do a Synapse in over an hour.  Now I am seeing the old 1:30 averages come back.  People not knowing how to act in a Posi 1 mission.  All points to people exploring the game anew.  Which is good.  But dont expect them to play like vets.  

 

You can yell "Get off my lawn!"  erm, I mean "Dont go near the City Hall doors!"

[Wyldkard]

On 1/3/2023 at 5:03 PM, DoctorHugh said:

Catch-22 isn't actually the right phrase to use here.

 

I can think of some better ones.

 

Well played, sir, well played indeed.

 

Possibly a bit too subtle for some readers, judging by the responses.

 

@biostem, I'm sure you're a fine upstanding fellow. However, being new to the forums, the only place I've seen you offer a reply to someone asking if there's a better way to do something, is in this thread:

 

If your replies there are typical of your "tactful" approach, well, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

Personally I find that mid-mission is an unproductive time to suggest changes to another person's playstyle, unless they've made it clear they're looking for tips and improvement. I'd either ask them if they wanted some tips on getting the most out of their powers, and follow up when appropriate, or maybe send them an email afterwards with some pointers. (Assuming I thought they were educable.)

 

One thing I've noticed is that coming from the direction of "you're doing OK but could get a lot more benefit from..." is generally better received than starting out with a "you know those powers you have are meant to be used, right?" or similarly negative/"you're doing it wrong" framework.

[biostem]

21 minutes ago, Wyldkard said:

If your replies there are typical of your "tactful" approach, well, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

As someone whose first post on these forums appears to be to disparage me, I question the authenticity of your "feedback".

 

22 minutes ago, Wyldkard said:

Personally I find that mid-mission is an unproductive time to suggest changes to another person's playstyle

How else would you have had an opportunity to observe their behavior in order to provide input, otherwise?  You have no idea how the person plays before, well, actually seeing them play... 

[Scientist]

If I see something like this, I usually start off by asking a question about why someone is doing/not doing something, that doesn't tend to be as confrontational.  I found out one blaster I teamed with fairly frequently for a while just liked knockback, he thought it was fun, so I swapped out to an alt that didn't rely on foe targeted toggle debuffs to play with him.  

 

More often I find out the person didn't know about a particular game mechanic, for example even though a tank can SURVIVE running around a room through 3 large spawns to try to pull them back to the team, the game won't allow them to hold aggro on all the mobs.  The mobs are quite happy to attack other teammates, though.  Or that IOs exist that protect you from getting knocked down all the time on your squishy characters.  

 

And once in a while I've learned something about the game I didn't know, so that's a win too. 🙂 

[Nyghtmaire]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:25 AM, Neiska said:

CoH used to be the "play your way" game. They even incorporated it into the game design, where nearly any team combined out of any powersets can complete all activities. The only difference is "how", the time required, and the difficulty. And lets not forget, that different people react differently to different kinds of instruction.

This. It’s what kept me in the game in the first place and what keeps me coming back. 
 

Plus, “bad” choices + inept teammates * lack of focus and all the other items identified in-thread = hardmode! Seriously, I don’t team unless ready for everything going pear-shaped. Or unless @Neiska is multiboxing some sick bots. THAT’s still a highlight having seen. 
 

Moreover, I’m playing this game to have fun. If an activity ceases to be enjoyable, I politely let the team know I’ve reached my capacity to process whatever is going on (and don’t point fingers - it’s me not you!) and drop group at a point when it least disrupts everyone else, as possible. Help channel is for helping, or having a discussion in team chat when (and only when) another player brings it up. Otherwise, you do you. 

[Solarverse]

On 1/3/2023 at 5:03 PM, DoctorHugh said:

Catch-22 isn't actually the right phrase to use here.

 

I can think of some better ones.

Pandora's Box.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Nyghtmaire said:

I’m playing this game to have fun

No argument there.

 

1 minute ago, Nyghtmaire said:

If an activity ceases to be enjoyable, I politely let the team know I’ve reached my capacity to process whatever is going on (and don’t point fingers - it’s me not you!) and drop group at a point when it least disrupts everyone else

I get that, but at some point throwing up your hands and just giving up on the team becomes counter-productive.  Again, it's not about barking order to others, but finding a happy medium where you can gently encourage people to improve.

[Wyldkard]

37 minutes ago, biostem said:

As someone whose first post on these forums appears to be to disparage me, I question the authenticity of your "feedback".

 

This is a pretty good example actually. You're trying to do something here, I take an example of your observed behavior, I suggest that perhaps that behavior isn't in line with the results you say you want to achieve... and you take that as "disparagement".

 

No disparagement was intended or implied, simply pointing out that your advice, however well intentioned, may not be perceived by others as "tactfully delivered". The implication being that perhaps you need to work on your tact. And you responded by assuming it was some sort of personal attack, and then dismissing the feedback you received.

 

That's a pretty fair example of how anyone you make suggestions to will respond. Particularly if you do it in such a manner as to suggest they're responsible for the last team wipe.

 

37 minutes ago, biostem said:

How else would you have had an opportunity to observe their behavior in order to provide input, otherwise?

 

I said that's a poor time to make suggestions, not to observe their behavior. Again, when the team has just wiped, missed a goal, or someone's died and the team is waiting for them to return... may not be the best time to tell someone "We could have avoided this if only you'd used your X power properly".

Edited January 10, 2023 by Wyldkard

[JasperStone]

3 hours ago, Wyldkard said:

 

Well played, sir, well played indeed.

 

Possibly a bit too subtle for some readers, judging by the responses.

 

@biostem, I'm sure you're a fine upstanding fellow. However, being new to the forums, the only place I've seen you offer a reply to someone asking if there's a better way to do something, is in this thread:

 

If your replies there are typical of your "tactful" approach, well, I do not think that word means what you think it means.

 

Personally I find that mid-mission is an unproductive time to suggest changes to another person's playstyle, unless they've made it clear they're looking for tips and improvement. I'd either ask them if they wanted some tips on getting the most out of their powers, and follow up when appropriate, or maybe send them an email afterwards with some pointers. (Assuming I thought they were educable.)

 

One thing I've noticed is that coming from the direction of "you're doing OK but could get a lot more benefit from..." is generally better received than starting out with a "you know those powers you have are meant to be used, right?" or similarly negative/"you're doing it wrong" framework.

A lovely Cherry Pick. This got a few laughs, one thumb up, and one thumb down

I found it as a humorous response.

 

I am thankful for the @biostem response gave.

Cleared up what to do with underwear ... I mean ... the leg holes are perfect for ears and eyeholes.

 

[Mopery]

"I'm just happy to be here."

-Ringo Starr