Suggestion for Croatoa.

[captainstar]

A new GM, like a big ghost monster!

Edited February 14, 2023 by captainstar
fixing the image

[Greycat]

Why? There are already two (three, if you count Sally) which are directly tied to the lore of the place.  Seems like it'd get a bit crowded for one zone.

 

Also who or what is it supposed to be, how is it at all tied to Croatoa and what's happening there?

[El D]

@Greycat has a point - including a pitch for a ghost GM would help give more to latch on for the suggestion.

 

Off the top of my head though, if it were to be implemented... Well, there are the Ghost mobs already in Croatoa that could easily connect to any spectral GM. The spirit of some famous local hero could be a neat take. A deceased super, corrupted or connected to the invading spirit world like the other Ghosts, forced to join the Eternal War. Have a really powerful Cabal witch spirit run amok somewhere, seeking revenge for her slain/captive coven sisters. Heck, maybe the will-o'-the-wisps can Voltron themselves into a giant one that actually attacks people.

 

Alternately, tuck some Circle mages off somewhere and have them empower an archmage into a giant wizard ghost via tapping through the thin veil between worlds. The inhabitants of Orange Bagel having absolutely no presence in Croatoa always seemed odd to me (I understand it keeps a tight focus on the Celtic mythology theme of the zone, but come on - if they were willing to use the Faultline dam, they'd absolutely want to get in on Salamanca's shenanigans for their own gain somehow).

Edited February 14, 2023 by El D

[biostem]

Something like this would better fit Dark Astoria, IMO.

[captainstar]

7 hours ago, El D said:

@Greycat has a point - including a pitch for a ghost GM would help give more to latch on for the suggestion.

 

Off the top of my head though, if it were to be implemented... Well, there are the Ghost mobs already in Croatoa that could easily connect to any spectral GM. The spirit of some famous local hero could be a neat take. A deceased super, corrupted or connected to the invading spirit world like the other Ghosts, forced to join the Eternal War. Have a really powerful Cabal witch spirit run amok somewhere, seeking revenge for her slain/captive coven sisters. Heck, maybe the will-o'-the-wisps can Voltron themselves into a giant one that actually attacks people.

 

Alternately, tuck some Circle mages off somewhere and have them empower an archmage into a giant wizard ghost via tapping through the thin veil between worlds. The inhabitants of Orange Bagel having absolutely no presence in Croatoa always seemed odd to me (I understand it keeps a tight focus on the Celtic mythology theme of the zone, but come on - if they were willing to use the Faultline dam, they'd absolutely want to get in on Salamanca's shenanigans for their own gain somehow).

 

yeah, I thought it might be something like the Statesman's spirit too. And for those who asked me the "why" of this suggestion, because I like new features in a game that I like. Is that simple.

[captainstar]

And besides, when Jack and Eochai appear, they bring a lot of the foes from that map. But no ghosts.

[Rudra]

That would be because the ghosts are not aligned with any group in Croatoa and are just trying to break free and move on.

 

Edit: So for clarity's sake: the ghosts are not fighting in the war between the Red Caps, the Tuatha de Dannon, the Firbolg, and the witches. They are like the civilians in the mayhem missions. There, caught in the middle, trying to get out, and vulnerable to being picked on by everyone. (Except that they can fight back and typically think the PCs are involved with their torment.)

Edited February 14, 2023 by Rudra

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, captainstar said:

And besides, when Jack and Eochai appear, they bring a lot of the foes from that map. But no ghosts.

 

So here's why -

 

Ghosts: Former citizens of Salmanca. They're only there because Salmanca is being drawn into "Croatoa," the spirit world, and any anger (etc) is mostly a side effect of Red Cap shenanigans.

 

Tuatha de Danaan - one side trapped in an "eternal war." They're mostly forced into it by the Red Caps.

 

fir Bolg - The ones "eternally fighting" the Tuatha. They have an alliance (or at least understanding) with the Cabal. (Their "Champion" - Eochai)

 

(The Tuatha and fir Bolg use the names of groups in Irish mythology.)

 

Red Caps - Nasty imps who just exist to cause pain and suffering. The ones *doing* the trapping of the Tuatha and fir Bolg, where they die and resurrect to just fight again. (Their "champion" - Jack in Irons, who's helping them willingly.) (Red Caps are more English/Scottish myth IIRC, the caps being red because they're dipped in the blood of their victims.) 

 

Cabal - the "witches." I'm slightly rusty here, but IIRC the Red Caps were responsible for the death of their husbands/sons/etc. - they've been fighting for a long time.)

 

When they spawn independently, you'll see the only ones accompanying Eo and Jack are fir Bolg and Red Caps. The Cabal get into the war up north because they're there. The ghosts are just in the way (and targets of both the Cabal and - indirectly, or at least kept as future targets by - the Red Caps.)

[captainstar]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

So here's why -

 

Ghosts: Former citizens of Salmanca. They're only there because Salmanca is being drawn into "Croatoa," the spirit world, and any anger (etc) is mostly a side effect of Red Cap shenanigans.

 

Tuatha de Danaan - one side trapped in an "eternal war." They're mostly forced into it by the Red Caps.

 

fir Bolg - The ones "eternally fighting" the Tuatha. They have an alliance (or at least understanding) with the Cabal. (Their "Champion" - Eochai)

 

(The Tuatha and fir Bolg use the names of groups in Irish mythology.)

 

Red Caps - Nasty imps who just exist to cause pain and suffering. The ones *doing* the trapping of the Tuatha and fir Bolg, where they die and resurrect to just fight again. (Their "champion" - Jack in Irons, who's helping them willingly.) (Red Caps are more English/Scottish myth IIRC, the caps being red because they're dipped in the blood of their victims.) 

 

Cabal - the "witches." I'm slightly rusty here, but IIRC the Red Caps were responsible for the death of their husbands/sons/etc. - they've been fighting for a long time.)

 

When they spawn independently, you'll see the only ones accompanying Eo and Jack are fir Bolg and Red Caps. The Cabal get into the war up north because they're there. The ghosts are just in the way (and targets of both the Cabal and - indirectly, or at least kept as future targets by - the Red Caps.)

 

 

Ok, so maybe this new GM could be a ghost of supervillain, or superhero, disguised as a citizen of Croatoa before they got all dead. 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, captainstar said:

Ok, so maybe this new GM could be a ghost of supervillain, or superhero, disguised as a citizen of Croatoa before they got all dead. 

But there are plenty of other zones that don't have their own events or GMs, so why not give them some love?

[Doc_Scorpion]

8 hours ago, captainstar said:

And for those who asked me the "why" of this suggestion, because I like new features in a game that I like. Is that simple.

Generally it's preferred that new things to the game take existing things and existing lore into account...  rather than just being randomly shoved in.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, captainstar said:

 

 

Ok, so maybe this new GM could be a ghost of supervillain, or superhero, disguised as a citizen of Croatoa before they got all dead. 

First question: Why would a super hero need to disguise himself/herself as a citizen of Croatoa? They aren't enemy agents attempting to infiltrate hostile territory.

 

Second question: Since all the ghosts in Croatoa are happy to leave Croatoa once the Red Cap influence keeping them bound there is lifted, why would the ghosts even have a giant monster presence? They don't want to be there. At all.

 

Croatoa already has Eochai and Jack in Irons. And if I remember correctly, the war is a separate event from the giant monsters themselves spawning. So I think there can be multiple instances of them in the zone, the pair fighting when they reach the north, and individually at their non-war spawn points. And that isn't even counting when their seasonal event duplicates appear during Halloween. Croatoa is full. The ghosts don't even want to be involved in anything going on there. They say as much in the missions where they actually thank you for enabling them to leave.

 

Edit: And unlike Scrapyard who died fighting Mako while fighting for his fellow Scrapyarders' freedom and is summoned routinely by the Scrapyarders to help keep fighting Cage and Arachnos for their freedom, the Salamanca/Croatoa ghosts don't have a focus to keep them there. They are trapped souls trying to leave, not willing combatants ready and waiting to be called back to take up a fight they have no interest in.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Rudra

[captainstar]

38 minutes ago, Rudra said:

First question: Why would a super hero need to disguise himself/herself as a citizen of Croatoa? They aren't enemy agents attempting to infiltrate hostile territory.

 

Second question: Since all the ghosts in Croatoa are happy to leave Croatoa once the Red Cap influence keeping them bound there is lifted, why would the ghosts even have a giant monster presence? They don't want to be there. At all.

 

Croatoa already has Eochai and Jack in Irons. And if I remember correctly, the war is a separate event from the giant monsters themselves spawning. So I think there can be multiple instances of them in the zone, the pair fighting when they reach the north, and individually at their non-war spawn points. And that isn't even counting when their seasonal event duplicates appear during Halloween. Croatoa is full. The ghosts don't even want to be involved in anything going on there. They say as much in the missions where they actually thank you for enabling them to leave.

 

Edit: And unlike Scrapyard who died fighting Mako while fighting for his fellow Scrapyarders' freedom and is summoned routinely by the Scrapyarders to help keep fighting Cage and Arachnos for their freedom, the Salamanca/Croatoa ghosts don't have a focus to keep them there. They are trapped souls trying to leave, not willing combatants ready and waiting to be called back to take up a fight they have no interest in.

 

no need to overcomplicated, some superheroes need disguise, others don't

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, captainstar said:

no need to overcomplicated, some superheroes need disguise, others don't

The "need" or reason for said disguise, if they are to be included in this proposed event, *is* kind of important, though...

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, captainstar said:

 

 

Ok, so maybe this new GM could be a ghost of supervillain, or superhero, disguised as a citizen of Croatoa before they got all dead. 

 

... the citizens of Croatoa aren't all dead. There are citizens you rescue in at least one mission, others who the Cabal corner, and of course all the university students hanging around - not counting those that get transformed (as briefly mentioned) into fir Bolg or Tuatha warriors. The ghosts are the *former residents* which you see as part of the Red Cap plan to pull Salmanca into Croatoa (the spirit-world side of things.) (Last mission of Gordon Bower's arc, when you get to play with Skipper's rod.)

 

Think you need to replay the zone and pay attention to the lore. 🙂  (and no, I'm still not convinced we need *yet another* GM in the zone, lore aside.)

[Luminara]

27 minutes ago, captainstar said:

some superheroes need disguise, others don't

 

Why does a GM-level super need a disguise?  What, Batman died and gained as much power as Thanos with his gauntlet, went ape-shit and started... terrorizing a farming community?

 

[captainstar]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Why does a GM-level super need a disguise?  What, Batman died and gained as much power as Thanos with his gauntlet, went ape-shit and started... terrorizing a farming community?

 

 

You guys are just trolling me now, right?

 

But ok, he need the disguise while he was alive, and since the ghosts of Croatoa have cloth it make sense that he died with his costume. But other idea could be... he is a spirit o vengance, like Ghost Rider.

 

Anyway, the devs will judge if they like my idea... Peace!

[Rudra]

24 minutes ago, captainstar said:

 

You guys are just trolling me now, right?

 

But ok, he need the disguise while he was alive, and since the ghosts of Croatoa have cloth it make sense that he died with his costume. But other idea could be... he is a spirit o vengance, like Ghost Rider.

 

Anyway, the devs will judge if they like my idea... Peace!

There is a marked difference between asking for more information about a proposal, especially when the proposal has already been pointed out as lacking justification, and trolling a thread. This thread has not been trolled by anyone.

 

Edit: There is also a difference between pointing out flaws and trolling. This thread still has not been trolled.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rudra

[captainstar]

24 minutes ago, Rudra said:

There is a marked difference between asking for more information about a proposal, especially when the proposal has already been pointed out as lacking justification, and trolling a thread. This thread has not been trolled by anyone.

 

Edit: There is also a difference between pointing out flaws and trolling. This thread still has not been trolled.

 

Ok, np. But it was simple suggestion. I know the devs would need to make an entire background for this new GM and so on. And I would prefer to get new powers and stuff like these. But I though, if was made right, a scary big ghost would bring a bit more adventure to that map.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

ok Im gonna get destroyed for this suggestion for Croatoa but here goes nothing

 

Lets move Croatoa to red side, wait wait wait, hear me out

 

Its dark and creepy already so it fits in.

Red side has less zones and needs some mclovin

 

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

ok Im gonna get destroyed for this suggestion for Croatoa but here goes nothing

 

Lets move Croatoa to red side, wait wait wait, hear me out

 

Its dark and creepy already so it fits in.

Red side has less zones and needs some mclovin

It doesn't need to be a zero-sum game.  Maybe make it co-op, with villains able to aid the Red Caps - you'd just need to sprinkle in some new contacts...

[Arbegla]

I'll second making Croatoa a co-op zone. Its outside of Paragon City, it has a morality aspect already (Red Caps vs basically everyone else) and its just a pretty zone to begin with.

 

Only issue with getting Geas of the Kind Ones as a villain and not having to worry about Demonic anymore (I think those are the same accolade powers.. I could be wrong..)

[Rudra]

40 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

ok Im gonna get destroyed for this suggestion for Croatoa but here goes nothing

 

Lets move Croatoa to red side, wait wait wait, hear me out

 

Its dark and creepy already so it fits in.

Red side has less zones and needs some mclovin

 

 

27 minutes ago, biostem said:

It doesn't need to be a zero-sum game.  Maybe make it co-op, with villains able to aid the Red Caps - you'd just need to sprinkle in some new contacts...

Or, instead of taking something away from blue side or trying to convert it into a 'co-op' where the red siders would be actively working against the blue siders by means of aiding the Red Caps (which functions more like a PvP zone than a co-op zone where they do the same missions with each other), how about just making some more zones for red side with their own stories?

 

I know, I know. That would be a lot more work for the devs. However, Croatoa is already established as a hero zone, it makes no sense for even the PC villains to aid the Red Caps, and changing a zone still requires a lot of dev work anyway. So I say, how about just more red side zones?

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

it makes no sense for even the PC villains to aid the Red Caps

That's were good storytelling comes in - you can create a compelling reason for why villains would get involved.

 

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

So I say, how about just more red side zones?

If the intent is to add a zone with Red Caps, Tuatha, Fir Bolg, etc, that villains can visit, then you can do so via the above "good storytelling" as well...

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

That's were good storytelling comes in - you can create a compelling reason for why villains would get involved.

 

If the intent is to add a zone with Red Caps, Tuatha, Fir Bolg, etc, that villains can visit, then you can do so via the above "good storytelling" as well...

The intent was to meet @Saiyajinzoningen's request for more red side zones. I am avoiding stipulating what that zone has for a reason. Blue side can have its creepy zones and it fits. Red side can have whatever zones the devs decide. The reason why red side has so few zones is because blue side having so many zones was a problem for a not insignificant portion of the player base back on Live. New zones for red side, particularly if it is a high level zone, can greatly expand red side's storytelling without having to rewrite an existing zone. Or Khallisti Wharf could finally be populated with contacts, mobs, and missions to make use of an already available co-op zone that has seen no development I am aware of so far.