Is Regen poor or simply challenging (Psi/Regen build request)?

[lemming]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:13 AM, InvaderStych said:

People take Tough or Weave before like the mid 30s?

On some of my Tanks, I do, but their purpose is survival and taunting.

 

Pretty sure on my other ATs, never.

[lemming]

While Regen on Tanks would be cool, I'd like Regen to be overhauled first, then ported.

 

Regen got downgraded and then hit by system wide changes making it worse.   It's still viable in current form, but I do think other powersets do better.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:13 AM, InvaderStych said:

People take Tough or Weave before like the mid 30s?

 

 

 

I often take Tough at 14.  Often it is my first resistance power, and the first two slots go towards giving me 6% defense to all.  Next two slots go towards getting decent S&L resistance/endurance and a 2.5% discount on all my powers that use endurance.  It's good stuff at level 15, and I generally respec it later.

 

Weave, on the other hand, gets postponed until I need it.

[InvaderStych]

I like how people are replying to my joke as though I have never heard of Gladiator's, Steadfast, or Unbreakable. 🤣 It was an endurance cost joke guys - read the whole thread. 🤣

[Waljoricar]

On 2/20/2023 at 5:57 AM, Blackjoy said:

I realize the OP may have already made up their mind, but I'll add some perspective.  I've played /WP /Regen/ /SR up to 50 and am now doing /Rad at lvl 40.  I've solo'd this toons with non-Set IO's and no Tough/Weave/Combat Jumping.   At level 50I I've run ITF and other TFS.

 

 

I can tell you, unequivocally, if you want to solo from 1-50 and you actually want to play those levels and do content, /Regen is by far your best choice.   /Regen will fall off after 40 due to debuffs, but if you want to invest in Set IOs, you can compensate.   If you want to do solo 4x8, then go /Shield or /Rad and be prepared to spend around 200-500m on a build.  /Invul is probably really good on some mobs, but Psi and Toxic will be problematic.  You can do pretty well running /SR, but Shield and /Rad have higher ceilings.  The best build I've seen is /Rad.  If you want to solo +4 AV's, don't go /SR.    

 

For anyone who reads scrapper threads and is looking for people giving advice on primaries or secondaries, one thing that you have to recognize is that 97% of the opinions  you hear, are about what happens at lvl 50.  The experience people have with the 50+ content is what dominates the popular opinions, this includes the trashing on /Regen.   If you are more about the journey to 50, then most of the advice on these forums is demonstratively wrong.  If you want to power level to 50 and solo 4x8 content, then the opinions on the forums are more instructive.

 

 

This is probably the most accurate understanding of /Regen that I've seen on these forums.

This is also accurate and it is one reason to not like /Regen.  Unlike /WP or /Shield, which you can put on cruise control.  /Regen has to be driven. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for it.

 

This is actually false until other sets solve their endurance problems.  /Regen is the fastest killing set when it comes to clearing a missions because of the endurance.   You can't kill things when you have no endurance.   But around 40+ when sets can solve their endurance issues, other sets will give more benefit to killing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just wanted to thank you for this post. I've decided to go in a different direction for my current character, but your post has made me reconsider writing off Regen completely.

[Blackjoy]

6 hours ago, CR Americas Angel said:

Solid post. All of the experienced regen players I know tend to think the same way.

I actually don't think /Regen needs a boost.  Not because it doesn't have weaknesses, but because those weakness are intentional.   All sets should have aspects of combat that they more or less suck at.   And even with -Recharge,  /Regen's big time powers are still functional.  Dull Pain, IH, and MoG are not meant to be fired off multiple times in a single combat.  So all the crying about -Recharge only comes up when you're fighting an AV...assuming it is hitting you with -recharge, or you're doing some repeated waves.  In both those instances, you are expected to have teammates.  

 

The only debuff that I think is probably more substantial than intended might be -To Hit vs soloing +2 EBs or tougher when running solo.    But then I haven't been running Focused Accuracy or Targeting Drone on my /Regen's, so it's not like I don't have options.

 

I will concede that when you do 4x8, even on teams, if you aren't getting some type of +DEF or +RES buff, and you think you are a tank, your reaction time to hit DP or MoG or Recon is substantially reduced.   Compared to a scrapper at the RES or DEF cap, /Regen is going to look like it under performs.   But the flip side is that it's easier to get a lot of +DEF or +RES in teams than it is to get a lot of +Regen.  If you're already flooring someone's To HIt, getting more +DEF doesn't do anything.   So at the 50+ game when everyone is already capped, /Regen is getting more out of teaming.   But if you aren't capping, you have to be really careful about taking Alphas from 4x8....and that's why /Regen gets a bad reputation.

 

[Blackjoy]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:19 AM, Captain Fabulous said:

No, the fallacy is that just because you can stack pool powers and have a billion INF worth of set IOs and be godly doesn't mean the underlying set is actually good. You've just filled in all the holes. And Regen has a LOT of holes

The irony of this statement is that it's 100% correct, but not for /Regen, but for a set like /SR and to some extent /Shield.   It's precisely because you can get /SR or /Shield or other sets to the +DEF or +RES cap via Set IOs, INF, Incarnates, and Power Pools that people think those sets are the best sets.   /Regen is one of the few sets the it's really hard to hit either the +RES cap or the +DEF cap, and /Regen's reputation suffers accordingly. 

 

And if anyone out there doubts this.  Go solo 4x8 solo one of the TFs where you can disable Incarnates, Set IOs, Inspirations (Heck keep your Power Pools).   Then you'll really  find out how true this statement is.   /SR is way worse than /Regen  when you aren't capping and when you don't have Set IO's fixing your endurance issues.   I haven't found /Shield to be much better.  Of course if you're hitting Sappers or fighting sets with lots of Defense Debuffs, then /SR  does better.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Blackjoy

[Blackjoy]

8 hours ago, Steyrharquebus said:

I just wanted to thank you for this post. I've decided to go in a different direction for my current character, but your post has made me reconsider writing off Regen completely.

I'm glad it helped.  When you read forums opinions, you need to keep in mind the context under which those opinions are offered and whether that applies to your situation.   Are you planning on doing 4x8 solo?  If not, then a lot of what people post on here will be inaccurate.

 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:08 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Often it is my first resistance power, and the first two slots go towards giving me 6% defense to all.  Next two slots go towards getting decent S&L resistance/endurance and a 2.5% discount on all my powers that use endurance.

It's kind of funny when you describe it like this, and not as its original form it makes it sound like a much better power. It becomes 0.26 eps for 11% Res(S/L) and 6% Def(All), anyone would think "you're crazy if you don't take that, that's such a great pick!" It makes Weave look tedious. Lets go a step further and instead put Gladiator's 3-pack in there with Steadfast instead and now it becomes 0.24 eps, 16% Res(S/L), +2.5% Recovery, 6% Def (All), 3pt KB Res.

 

Man, you really are Tough. 🤣

 

7 hours ago, CR Americas Angel said:

In terms of changes...adding debuff resistances (to counter slows, -regen, and end/recovery drain)

 

The fact that Regen doesn't have -Regen debuff resistance is one of the most absurd flaws ever to exist in this game. I get that at conception there wasn't exactly anything running around that could cause this, but by the time it became a thing, the enemies that could/can deliver the effect massively curb-stomp Regen hard and it is insane that there isn't even an after thought of a band aid to fix it.

[Captain Fabulous]

2 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

The irony of this statement is that it's 100% correct, but not for /Regen, but for a set like /SR and to some extent /Shield.   It's precisely because you can get /SR or /Shield or other sets to the +DEF or +RES cap via Set IOs, INF, Incarnates, and Power Pools that people think those sets are the best sets.   /Regen is one of the few sets the it's really hard to hit either the +RES cap or the +DEF cap, and /Regen's reputation suffers accordingly. 

 

And if anyone out there doubts this.  Go solo 4x8 solo one of the TFs where you can disable Incarnates, Set IOs, Inspirations (Heck keep your Power Pools).   Then you'll really  find out how true this statement is.   /SR is way worse than /Regen  when you aren't capping and when you don't have Set IO's fixing your endurance issues.   I haven't found /Shield to be much better.  Of course if you're hitting Sappers or fighting sets with lots of Defense Debuffs, then /SR  does better.

 

 

 

 

Invul, Shield, Bio, WP, and Rad are at the top of the charts because they have layered protections. not because they can easily reach softcapped defense via IO sets. That would be defense sets like Ice, EA, and SR. Regen is a one trick pony, and of all the protection types +regen is the least affective because it's almost entirely a reactive set instead of a proactive set. There's a reason it's so very rare to see Regen characters. As much as you'd like to think, it's not a case of you knowing better than everyone else, or that we simply don't understand how to play it.

I don't see the point in arguing about it tho. If you love Regen and enjoy playing it, that's great. At the end of the day that's all that matters.

[Sir Myshkin]

24 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

I don't see the point in arguing about it tho.

 

Because it's the internet, and without this we'd all still be drinking whiskey in drawing rooms in stuffy two-and-a-half-piece suits with pocket watches and twirled mustaches going "How's the weather today!" But not as a question, but a matter of statement because we already know that the weather is crap and we need to create an argument starter and there's only so many times you can complain about the house keeping before it gets older than the weather!

 

So how about those Cubs?

[Seed22]

14 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

In both those instances, you are expected to have teammates.  

Nope. Grab Ageless Radial and call it a day. (i meant to snag the -recharge part. Plus there are a sizable amount of enemies that stack -recharge pretty quickly)

 

DO NOT rely solely on team members to shore up weaknesses. I have been in FAR too many PuGs where you'll be lucky to get a buff from a buff oriented set, which is....weird.

 

Build to be as self-efficient as you can, then lean into incarnates for what's left over. In the instance you exempt, most content with IOs in place will be relatively smooth, even with a(more than likely) Pug support who doesn't know the first thing about their powerset.

 

I try not to offer slot advice or powerset takes(not anymore. The folks who I did like discussing powersets with are either in the discord or gone so), but if there's one thing I can offer that transcends builds it's the above. It may not be liked but that's just my take, having dealt with Pugs from i6 till now.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Seed22

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It's kind of funny when you describe it like this, and not as its original form it makes it sound like a much better power. It becomes 0.26 eps for 11% Res(S/L) and 6% Def(All), anyone would think "you're crazy if you don't take that, that's such a great pick!" It makes Weave look tedious. Lets go a step further and instead put Gladiator's 3-pack in there with Steadfast instead and now it becomes 0.24 eps, 16% Res(S/L), +2.5% Recovery, 6% Def (All), 3pt KB Res.

 

Man, you really are Tough. 🤣

 

 

I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to use the tools available, like IO sets, but I have a hard time rationalizing setting balance around SOs, for example.  It's like travelling to Madrid for vacation, but you don't speak Spanish so you can't ask around or read about about the best things to see and do.  "That's ok, we can teach you Spanish!"  "Nope, I don't wanna learn Spanish."  "Ok, how about we translate for you into English?"  "No, I don't wanna do that either."  It's totally ok if you don't want to, but I'm pretty glad I've learned Spanish!

 

But, and I cannot emphasize this enough, to each their own.

[Captain Fabulous]

49 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to use the tools available, like IO sets, but I have a hard time rationalizing setting balance around SOs, for example.  It's like travelling to Madrid for vacation, but you don't speak Spanish so you can't ask around or read about about the best things to see and do.  "That's ok, we can teach you Spanish!"  "Nope, I don't wanna learn Spanish."  "Ok, how about we translate for you into English?"  "No, I don't wanna do that either."  It's totally ok if you don't want to, but I'm pretty glad I've learned Spanish!

 

But, and I cannot emphasize this enough, to each their own.

The game has always been balanced around SOs because that's what's readily available to all players for a fixed price from vendors and as drops. The invention system and AH was always meant to be optional, not required.

If you wanted IOs or even sets to become the baseline there would need to be a major overhaul of the crafting system and AH to greatly simply the process, cost, and availability.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Captain Fabulous

[Captain Fabulous]

13 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

Because it's the internet, and without this we'd all still be drinking whiskey in drawing rooms in stuffy two-and-a-half-piece suits with pocket watches and twirled mustaches going "How's the weather today!" But not as a question, but a matter of statement because we already know that the weather is crap and we need to create an argument starter and there's only so many times you can complain about the house keeping before it gets older than the weather!

 

So how about those Cubs?

I am all for a spirited discussion, but I won't argue. It's a pointless waste of time. At some point you just have to agree to disagree and go on with your day.

[Gobbledygook]

I myself have called for changes to regen since the " Great nerfing of Regen".

I disagree with people that say Regen would lose it's identity if IH was made back into a toggle. I say it would regain it's identity.

 

Anywho, with all of the recent discussions on Regen, and a comment that @Erratic1 made in their SS/EA thread, I have decided to make one and see for myself.

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

I have decided to make one and see for myself.

Alright, pack it up folks our work here is done! We got one!

[DyingLegacy]

Way too many TLDRs in here.  I’ll tell you this:  if you want to play regen on a scrapper you’re gonna want shadow meld.  Alternate between shadow meld, mog and instant healing as best you can. Preferably combine it with a set that has some soft control , ie knockdown, so you can help alleviate regents shortcomings AND so you can slot force feedback recharge proc.

[twozerofoxtrot]

23 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The fact that Regen doesn't have -Regen debuff resistance is one of the most absurd flaws ever to exist in this game

 

Sorry to be a little picky but it does have some, 25% at 50. Same as Willpower (from the same exact power, Fast Healing, lol).

[Wavicle]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:19 AM, Captain Fabulous said:

I would put SR near the bottom just one step above Regen. It's not a great set either.

 

lol

[SomeGuy]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:19 AM, Captain Fabulous said:

I would put SR near the bottom just one step above Regen. It's not a great set either.

 

 

lol wut

[Captain Fabulous]

15 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

lol

 

14 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

lol wut

Did I stutter? SR is great until you actually get hit, which is gonna happen on average 1 in every 20 attacks. If you're down at least 1 HP it's very easy to get curb-stomped in one big hit from a +4 boss or AV, and with no heal or +regen you have no good way to recover your lost health without help. You're at the mercy of the tohit RNG. The scaling resists help, but only when you're low on health. Yeah you can fill all those holes with IO bonuses, but you can do that with any set or AT at this point.

[Wavicle]

SR is one of the best armor sets in the game.

[Captain Fabulous]

24 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

SR is one of the best armor sets in the game.

I guess we'll have to disagree. SR, like Regen, is a one trick pony, and we know the best armor sets have layered protection.

[Sir Myshkin]

19 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Sorry to be a little picky but it does have some, 25% at 50. Same as Willpower (from the same exact power, Fast Healing, lol).

 

That's like saying a bald tire has tread. It should be 100%!