Focused Feedback: Storm Blast

[Frosticus]

2 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

I'd actually say the reverse. Because of how the power acts, it has to rely on itself for accuracy. It may seem like extra good at low levels, but you have to remember, at low levels you also don't have a ton of recharge, and endurance is a much bigger issue as well. So because the procs rely on you attacking, the power also isn't going to do as much in the early levels as well. But that 1.4 base accuracy is HUGELY needed in the later levels to hit +3s/4s (1.4 actually wont be able to even hit the full 95% cap even with 95% acc slotting against +4s on it's own)

Just for clarity:

Upping the base accuracy of the power multiplies accuracy enhancement, so for a player perspective baked in acc bonuses work like tohit buffs.

The lockouts of the lightning attacks which I think range from 2-4 seconds seem to already limit it at lower levels/smaller spawn sizes, so not having a rapid fire attack chain isn't a huge concern relative to Storm Cell's performance early game. There is no lockout on the 16 target high winds debuff though and it lasts 8 seconds.

 

1.4x base acc will cap storm cell's attacks against +2's with 21% acc enhancement in storm cell.

vs a +4, 95% acc enhancement will give storm cell a 106.5% chance to hit, so you'd need ~80% enhancement to cap vs +4s.

 

I think I was one of the original people bringing up the issues this power has hitting things in high level content and we haven't even touched on hardmode, so I'm not disagreeing. The vast majority of storm blast combos do not have widespread -def and/or persistent tohit buffs (that pass on to storm cell), so it is hopefully something they iron out. Truth be told, most people aren't watching the pet combat log though, so probably won't even realize one way or the other. If it isn't adjusted I don't expect a lot of pushback from the player base.

 

I'm hopeful there is another tweak that helps resolve the invention set IO's for this power specifically and one more pass at its consistency in higher level play. It has been adjusted quite a bit since hitting open beta, so that is positive imo.

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Frosticus

[WindDemon21]

5 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Hmmm, maybe someone with GM in their name should do something about it. 🤔

They already have as they deleted all the unnecessary posts.

 

26 minutes ago, Captnshacky said:

 

When a small, and I stress small, number of people are catered to, it's no longer an open discussion.

There's no arguing here. It a discussion. 

The vast majority of people in this thread, most hidden, are not in favor of the changes asked for by four people.

Ok what specifically are you not in favor of? Youre against increasing the accuracy of cell/c5? Reducing the end cost on cell? State what, state why, provide numbers. Don't just say "most are not in favor" when we haven't seen any specifics to what you're saying.

 

Also if they're hidden, then how do you know what the "vast majority" is thinking?

[Captnshacky]

5 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

They already have as they deleted all the unnecessary posts.

 

Ok what specifically are you not in favor of? Youre against increasing the accuracy of cell/c5? Reducing the end cost on cell? State what, state why, provide numbers. Don't just say "most are not in favor" when we haven't seen any specifics to what you're saying.

 

Also if they're hidden, then how do you know what the "vast majority" is thinking?

 

The set was perfectly fine prior to the recharge redux. "People" complained and it was reduced.

Now the end cost is too high???? 

Now accuracy needs to be increased to appease farmers who want to hit +4's with no IO sets.

Again, it's catering to a few and silencing the many.

We don't all farm or want to blast throw the game. We enjoy it for the content

 

I've been following the thread for awhile and seen all the posts that are now hidden.

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, Captnshacky said:

 

The set was perfectly fine prior to the recharge redux. "People" complained and it was reduced.

Now the end cost is too high???? 

Now accuracy needs to be increased to appease farmers who want to hit +4's with no IO sets.

Again, it's catering to a few and silencing the many.

We don't all farm or want to blast throw the game. We enjoy it for the content

 

I've been following the thread for awhile and seen all the posts that are now hidden.

They wouldn't have been hidden if they had constructive feedback. And since you clearly werent listening and missed it, set bonuses do not carry over to cell and c5, so the only accuracy it gets on most combos is its own base plus enhancements.

 

There is also a ton of content in the late game where teams will fight +3s and +4s that isn't farming.

[Captnshacky]

7 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

They wouldn't have been hidden if they had constructive feedback. And since you clearly werent listening and missed it, set bonuses do not carry over to cell and c5, so the only accuracy it gets on most combos is its own base plus enhancements.

 

There is also a ton of content in the late game where teams will fight +3s and +4s that isn't farming.

 

You want all parts of Storm Cell and Cat 5 to be able to hit +4's while still using a damage IO set.

This is what I just said above.

You should use other means like Hami-Os to ACHIEVE THIS.

The power set should not be a broken uber mess

[Gobbledigook]

In future it may be worth letting us know your plans in advance so we can give you a no hassle feedback and ideas on new sets without posts disappearing, rather than this is it just test it.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[Heatstroke]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Honestly, the scatter from this set is extremely minimal and easily dealt with simply by taking a Slow or Immobilize ability. Not everyone has access to those, but most do.

I'm not even planning to use KB>KD for this set. Not necessary.

 

 

They could also just increase the slow movement in the set itself. 

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Heatstroke said:

 

 

They could also just increase the slow movement in the set itself. 

It does increase, when you attack.

 

17 minutes ago, Captnshacky said:

 

You want all parts of Storm Cell and Cat 5 to be able to hit +4's while still using a damage IO set.

This is what I just said above.

You should use other means like Hami-Os to ACHIEVE THIS.

The power set should not be a broken uber mess

 

 I think they’re still working on adjusting how it responds to sets.

[WindDemon21]

54 minutes ago, Captnshacky said:

 

You want all parts of Storm Cell and Cat 5 to be able to hit +4's while still using a damage IO set.

This is what I just said above.

You should use other means like Hami-Os to ACHIEVE THIS.

The power set should not be a broken uber mess

It already IS a broken uber mess how it is. We're trying to suggest ways that that part can be fixed and work.   Damage io sets include accuracy which should affect the whole power. And yes, as the power is basically immune to all but a few things to help it hit, it should be able to hit +4s if you fully slot it for accuracy since this the sets only option.

 

This is also basic +4s not counting those who have any defense power to make then harder to hit on a random proc. You act as if hitting targets on a random proc is going to break the game or negatively impact the set, when every other set/power has other means through slotting, kismet, tactics etc to achieve this.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

The lockouts of the lightning attacks which I think range from 2-4 seconds

Just responding to this as a point of clarity only, that the devs have stated that the lockout is actually a strict 5 seconds every time it doesn't waver.

[Jacke]

Many times it has been mentioned that the movement of Storm Cell is rather slow.  May be effectively solved in some builds by having a high recharge, which then has issues with the endurance cost.

 

There's a bit of a problem with pets following.  I took Teleport Target on my Ice/Cold/Ice Controller and I'm glad I did, because even with me not having any movement buffs besides Swift and some IO set bonuses, Jack Frost has a hard time keeping up with me,  Often have to teleport him forward into combat when he's way off in the distance.

 

Too bad Storm Cell can't be teleported.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Jacke said:

Many times it has been mentioned that the movement of Storm Cell is rather slow.  May be effectively solved in some builds by having a high recharge, which then has issues with the endurance cost.

 

There's a bit of a problem with pets following.  I took Teleport Target on my Ice/Cold/Ice Controller and I'm glad I did, because even with me not having any movement buffs besides Swift and some IO set bonuses, Jack Frost has a hard time keeping up with me,  Often have to teleport him forward into combat when he's way off in the distance.

 

Too bad Storm Cell can't be teleported.

It’s not a pet that follows you around. It’s location AoE that can move around the battle field.

[Frosticus]

3 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Just responding to this as a point of clarity only, that the devs have stated that the lockout is actually a strict 5 seconds every time it doesn't waver.

I think that is just for Cat 5 lightning

From Storm Cell the single target lightning has 4 sec

The 2 target lightning has  3 sec

The 4 target lightning has 2 sec

 

I could be wrong though.

[WindDemon21]

7 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I think that is just for Cat 5 lightning

From Storm Cell the single target lightning has 4 sec

The 2 target lightning has  3 sec

The 4 target lightning has 2 sec

 

I could be wrong though.

That's possible. I know they said that the lockout was target specific though so it may not seem like it on cell cause there are technically two procs. Maybe that's why the procs were split at all?

[Frosticus]

11 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

That's possible. I know they said that the lockout was target specific though so it may not seem like it on cell cause there are technically two procs. Maybe that's why the procs were split at all?

Cat 5 proc is independent from the storm cell proc(s), but all Storm Cell procs are tied together with regard to lockout.

 

If target is hit with the piddly aoe lightning from storm cell it should be eligible to be hit by storm cell 2 seconds later.

 

Conversely, if it is hit by the powerful single blast it won't be eligible for 4 seconds.

 

Because cat 5 lightning has a different flag it should be possible  to hit the same target with cat 5 lightning and one of the storm cell blasts simultaneously.

 

If you enable timestamps and attack a single target I'd be surprised if you observe a 5 sec lockout on storm cells attacks, but I have no personally tested that yet.

 

 

[MDLittle]

Tested it on Brainstorm, didn't really find anything wrong with it. Liked the animation change for Chain Lightning. A Storm Caster/Storm Summoner Defender is an absolute beast. You literally have "Wind Control" with those two powersets - Gale, Freezing Rain, Tornado, Hurricane, Gust, Jet Stream, Storm Cell, Category Five. If you need more wind powers than that, go pick up Whirlwind from Speed. The point being, I'd hate to see the developers waste any of their time creating a 'Wind Control' powerset when it's essentially already present (once Storm Caster hits). Wanting a more control clearly doesn't understand wind...it's not something that controls, it's something that blows stuff away. At best, 'Wind Control' would be a 'soft control' powerset which both Storm Summoning and Storm Caster emulates excellently. Haven't tried a Blaster or Sentinel, though I imagine a Corruptor plays similarly to a Defender. As far as a Defender goes, Storm Caster is in a real sweet spot...hope what's currently present goes live. I've already got a 50 slotted for a remake. 🙂

[VashNKnives]

I know this may sound extreme, especially at this point in development, but I think it would have been cool if one of the buff pseudopets was a basically the inherent automatically created as you use your storm powers instead of needing to summon them intently. I think the having to keep up with the recharge of multiple buffing powers can be tedious, not that it is uncommon or unrectifiable with macros/programmable keyboards/mice.

 

 

Thinking of what I would do with that extra power slot... well given the development direction that I am seeing, if we needed another power that would ramp up then I would enjoy seeing water spout with the cat 5 interaction that it would start to spawn up to two more of itself. So having three water spouts would not only look cool but assist in the minion trashing and defense debuffing.

 

I also want to just be clear that for what it is worth - irrespective of my opinions - I really do enjoy what you've created here with storm blast and that I will likely play it with several ATs.

Edited April 22, 2023 by VashNKnives

[drbuzzard]

Made a sentinel (storm/regen) yesterday. Built them for recharge (+112% before perma hasten) with spiritual core alpha. The recharge was quite over the top. This resulted in roughly perma category five, which was kinda neat. The trial run was wiping out wall spawns in Cimerora. Damage was OK. Lightning strike hit pretty hard (though not extremely), and the rest was OK. It was definitely a change of pace having the attacks be indirect. Very much it has a Storm (the character) feel to it. The perma category five will be fun to use solo, but the slow build up to damage means it really won't shine on teams. Mind you, I didn't have a team to test with, but with most other sets having front loaded damage, this will result in a large chunk of the Cat 5 damage being wasted on corpses. Overall it's a cool set with really cool animations, but it will likely be shunned by high performance oriented players. It will be a hit with role players. Oh, also the aim equivalent is rather weak, I assume this is because it does other things. I did pop storm cells, but I'm not sure I really understood the point. I guess I need to understand the mechanic better. 

[Puma]

14 hours ago, Jacke said:

Many times it has been mentioned that the movement of Storm Cell is rather slow.  May be effectively solved in some builds by having a high recharge, which then has issues with the endurance cost.

 

There's a bit of a problem with pets following.  I took Teleport Target on my Ice/Cold/Ice Controller and I'm glad I did, because even with me not having any movement buffs besides Swift and some IO set bonuses, Jack Frost has a hard time keeping up with me,  Often have to teleport him forward into combat when he's way off in the distance.

 

Too bad Storm Cell can't be teleported.

 

I think I was the first one to bring up the end cost, and while what you say above about recasting is true, that wasn't even my primary concern.  

 

My concern was that by set design, you're forced to drop a high end power from your blast set that does NO damage, and won't DO any damage, until you then start using your other attacks, and even then it's not "reliable" damage. And this is assuming you don't have a secondary that also requires you to drop a power as set up, like tar patch, etc.  So you're starting off a fight with less end, and in a set that requires you to keep spending end constantly to get that power that cost end up front to even have a chance to do much.   

 

And if you skip it, your other powers aren't as effective since they're balanced around it.   And this was something I didn't even consider until testing and finding I couldn't even get through minimal fights without being winded.  I had to rest several times as I played this character, even at higher levels with IOs (no procs though).  That, to me, is a bug, or a design flaw that they really should be aware of.  

 

Like I said, the concept for Storm Cell is fun, but the end cost needs to get reduced down to something like tar patch, OR you alter Intensify so it grants a slightly longer buff that also includes giving end back to you.  Make it a targeted AoE version of Power Sink called Intensify where "You leech electricity from the bodies of foes, draining their endurance.  This energy is transferred directly to you, granting a temporary to hit buff and damage boost to both you and your storm cell, and granting you end over time. Duration: 20 seconds."  That or just change it that you "Use the static electricity in the air around you to boost the power of your storm attacks and granting yourself more endurance.  +To Hit, +Dmg, +Max End" or something.  SOMEHOW offset the heavy up front endurance costs of this set. 

 If they don't want to do this change, a simpler one would be make Intensify last longer naturally, with a slightly lower boost, or give it a sort of  Reach for the Limit effect, adding a proc called "intensification" to the +To Hit, +Dmg.  The proc fires every time you hit an enemy during the 10 second buff, and each proc increases the accuracy of Storm Cell's attacks for 30 seconds, stacking three times.  This fits thematically: your fighting amps up the storm, intensifying your own attacks and the chance your storm cell will hit targets. It would give the player a way to make the storm cell more reliable with harder targets for a reasonable amount of time, while still giving them a way to get burst damage for attacks like snipes, etc.  If they did that and upped the base acc of Storm Cell slightly, they could just add a line in the power description that says "this power's accuracy can only be improved with Intensification" and avoid the entire confusion among players, while still giving a way for it  to hit higher level foes and deal with end game content.  

I honestly believe right now if they lowered the end cost of Storm Cell or gave the set some way to get end back, and then found a way for Storm Cell to reliably hit harder targets, the set would be ready to go.   I still think Cat 5 needs some upfront direct mitigation, but that won't be a deal breaker by itself if the other issues are fixed. 

 

The concern with  Storm Cell's visuals is better, and I haven't seen it shoot off to other mobs yet like it did on me before, so HOPEFULLY that issue is resolved or at least mitigated now too.  The devs have been listening to concerns, and making adjustments.  I'm not sure why others are so upset.  Nothing has been drastically altered, or nerfed.  It's just being smoothed out.  

Edited April 22, 2023 by Puma

[Booper]

1 hour ago, drbuzzard said:

I did pop storm cells, but I'm not sure I really understood the point. I guess I need to understand the mechanic better. 

I'll help explain, but can you tell me what you meant by "pop storm cells"?

[Monkeyking]

Storm Blast felt weird to play at first because of the non-traditional blast animations, but eventually I got to a pretty decent flow with the set. The basic bread and butter works fine. Blasters would probably like it if Cloudburst did more of its damage up front, with less damage as the DoT portion. That's a personal quibble, though.

 

I feel like Storm Blast needs a blank auto-power that sticks to you, so you can check the info and get a full rundown of the set's mechanics. It was difficult keeping track of how everything interacts. It's hard enough for me to remember what the adaptations in Bio Armor do to every single power. Here, we have to remember what powers do inside the Storm Cell, the lightning interaction with Category Five, and I had to go to City of Data to figure out what the "high winds" do.

 

It's also extremely unclear how Storm Cell should be slotted. Does that power emit the bonus lightning damage, or does that come from powers I shoot into it? Do I want to treat it as a slow or an AoE attack? Testing the power for more than an afternoon would probably make this more obvious, but man this is not a set for newbies.

 

The "correct" usage of the current version of Storm Cell seems to be to ignore the movement and just drop one every fight, since the fully-slotted power is up more or less whenever I need to refresh it. I notice it doesn't alert enemies, which is very welcome. But as others are noting, the big issue is the 15.6 endurance cost. That is a hefty cost for a power I have to throw out every fight. If you're expected to "juice up" your powers every single time with Storm Cell for flavor, that's fine, but it amounts to an endurance tax on the set. Blasters can get away with it depending on how they slot their sustain power, but it's going to be a problem for most defenders and corruptors.

 

I wasn't impressed by Category Five, and it's another case of not really being sure how I'm intended to use it. It takes so long to ramp up, and didn't seem to be doing as much damage at full strength as something like Nova or even Full Auto. My impression was that it's a supercharged Storm Cell, and it was a lot more effective when I treated it like that. And I'm okay with a novel set that leans on two powers making the other basic attacks way more powerful than normal. But it should be signposted somewhere if that's how the set is intended to operate, because this is a way different experience from the other fourteen different blast powers we have.

[Booper]

19 minutes ago, Monkeyking said:

It's also extremely unclear how Storm Cell should be slotted.

Slotting will change in the next build (it didn't make today's update). To answer your question, slot Storm Cell with damage. The enhancements from that slotting are what will pass on to your lightning procs. Same goes for Category Five.

 

Just an early preview of the changes in the works on slotting:

 

Storm Cell:

• Will be able to slot Damage, EndMod, and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor To-Hit debuffs)
• High Winds proc will become Auto-Hit (this is the proc that does Slow and To-Hit debuffs)
  • Adjustments will be made on its debuff effects

Category Five:

• Will be able to slot Damage and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor EndMod)
• Both Category Five summoned pets will now take KB sets
  • Adjustments will be made on the debuffs and end drain effects.

 

This will remove the newb-trap in slotting. With these changes you can feel confident that all of the enhanced attributes slotted into Storm Cell or Category Five will be passed down appropriately to their respective base summon powers as well as their proc'd Lightning.

 

[kwsapphire]

On 4/20/2023 at 2:58 PM, Aeolus said:

 

Agreed.  Storm Summoning isn't a good powerset to recolor.  It just looks off when it is done.  Changing Storm Blast to yellow will give it nice synergy with Storm Summoning.

 

Respectfully I disagree. Storm Summoning looks great with custom colors. 

 

(Edit: I know we aren't supposed to provide feedback on feedback but I wanted to make clear that not all are in agreement on this point. Though I doubt Storm Summoning will be tweaked, I'd hate myself if I said nothing and a change was made.)

Edited April 22, 2023 by kwsapphire

[Puma]

1 hour ago, Booper said:

Slotting will change in the next build (it didn't make today's update). To answer your question, slot Storm Cell with damage. The enhancements from that slotting are what will pass on to your lightning procs. Same goes for Category Five.

 

Just an early preview of the changes in the works on slotting:

 

Storm Cell:

• Will be able to slot Damage, EndMod, and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor To-Hit debuffs)
• High Winds proc will become Auto-Hit (this is the proc that does Slow and To-Hit debuffs)
  • Adjustments will be made on its debuff effects

Category Five:

• Will be able to slot Damage and KB sets (no longer can slot Slows nor EndMod)
• Both Category Five summoned pets will now take KB sets
  • Adjustments will be made on the debuffs and end drain effects.

 

This will remove the newb-trap in slotting. With these changes you can feel confident that all of the enhanced attributes slotted into Storm Cell or Category Five will be passed down appropriately to their respective base summon powers as well as their proc'd Lightning.

 

I just wanted to publicly say thanks for being open to the feedback here, from all sides, and trying to find a balance.  I know it isn't easy to do.  

[Captain Fabulous]

1 hour ago, kwsapphire said:

 

Respectfully I disagree. Storm Summoning looks great with custom colors. 

 

(Edit: I know we aren't supposed to provide feedback on feedback but I wanted to make clear that not all are in agreement on this point. Though I doubt Storm Summoning will be tweaked, I'd hate myself if I said nothing and a change was made.)

I'm OK with the default colors as they are, I just would like to be able to recolor the lightning strikes and wind/rain effects separately. Right now, if you recolor Storm Cell the ground puddles are the primary color while the rain and lightning strikes are the secondary. In Cat 5 the ground effects are the primary color, the lightning is the secondary color, while the funnel cloud is a mix of both.

Hopefully it's something that can be reviewed at some point, even if it's after the set launches.