New Praetorian Power Pools

[Chance Jackson]

Whrn it comes to the Patron Pools I have a list of grievances and you're gonna hear(read) about them:

 

-All but 1 pool has resistance armors.

 

-The only one with a defense armor locks you into a tech theme with just about all other powers

 

-The resistance armored sets lock you into rather magical or at least magic adjacent themes especially with the pets (the matermind versions get this the least since they don't get pool pets)

 

To alleviate those issues & provide players with new powers to play with i suggest alternate pools inspired by the New Praetorians that follow the same structure as the Patron pools;

*Alec Parsons for Tech/Science

*Pendragon for Magic/Natural

*Aurora for Mutant (& a decent place to put the defense armor)

*Grant Guston for Tech/Natural

[Akisan]

If this is for new patron pools (with different powers/themes/etc.) then I'm all for it (especially if it comes with badges and is available to both red & blue sides).

 

If these will be simply reskins of the existing pools, then I'd have to ask that they be added to the (long, and somewhat overdue) list of power customization options, along with the regular pool powers (my very definitely magical Blaster cringes every time she pulls out a device to heal someone)

[Chance Jackson]

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

If this is for new patron pools (with different powers/themes/etc.) then I'm all for it (especially if it comes with badges and is available to both red & blue sides).

 

If these will be simply reskins of the existing pools, then I'd have to ask that they be added to the (long, and somewhat overdue) list of power customization options, along with the regular pool powers (my very definitely magical Blaster cringes every time she pulls out a device to heal someone)

Definitely the former, hell they could even buck the trend set by APPs & PPPs by making these new pools primarily have defense armors, sky is the limit as they say

[jkwak]

story wise Gold Side Patrons maybe? okay not really gold side cause you get Patron Pools way later, but many of Praetorias big names went to Primal Earth surely they would train some local unique Praetorian tricks right

[Akisan]

1 hour ago, Chance Jackson said:

Definitely the former, hell they could even buck the trend set by APPs & PPPs by making these new pools primarily have defense armors, sky is the limit as they say

 

They could also re-arrange some of the philosophy behind epic pool design (Praetoria's different, right?) and have pools that reinforce the ATs' strengths, instead of shoring up weaknesses (like controllers getting buffs/controls, scrappers getting melee attacks & armors, etc.).  It'd be sacrificing utility for power, so it'd make some things easier to do, but potentially weaken a character's ability to adapt to challenging content.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Akisan said:

They could also re-arrange some of the philosophy behind epic pool design (Praetoria's different, right?) and have pools that reinforce the ATs' strengths, instead of shoring up weaknesses

It would be nastier to do, because of the additional work setting everything up, but having two sets of patron pools -- Loyalist and Resistance -- with the Loyalist pools reinforcing the ATs' strengths, and the Resistance pools shoring up weaknesses, and you have to be a member of the appropriate side to pick that side's pools. So pure Loyalists couldn't take Resistance pools and vice versa, but if you're playing both sides, you can pick from both.

[Mezmera]

This was something I would have liked to have seen with the introduction of the new goldside zones.  Instead of creating yet a 3rd tutorial zone I would have liked for them to make these new zones 35+ with all their well written content.  

 

At level 35 either red or blue side you're forced to a contact that locks you out of regular content and they try to shuffle you off to Praetoria.  You can tell them you'll pass and move back onto your regular shtick blue or red but if you go to these zones with an introductory arc upon completion you would gain access to a Praetorian Epic Pool for your character, maybe related to the various factions.  

 

More lowbie zones was a poorly thought out plan with the expansion but I do hope for more things to get integrated with Goldside in the future, it's such a shame and waste of well crafted zones and content.  There should be something to attract people over to want to play that stuff beyond just badges.  

Edited July 24, 2023 by Mezmera

[Akisan]

12 hours ago, srmalloy said:

It would be nastier to do, because of the additional work setting everything up, but having two sets of patron pools -- Loyalist and Resistance -- with the Loyalist pools reinforcing the ATs' strengths, and the Resistance pools shoring up weaknesses, and you have to be a member of the appropriate side to pick that side's pools. So pure Loyalists couldn't take Resistance pools and vice versa, but if you're playing both sides, you can pick from both.

 

I really like the idea behind this, lore-wise, but mechanically it'd lock almost everyone out of those pools (very few people are still gold when patron pools unlock, and you can't get back in once you leave).

[Rudra]

4 minutes ago, Akisan said:

12 hours ago, srmalloy said:

It would be nastier to do, because of the additional work setting everything up, but having two sets of patron pools -- Loyalist and Resistance -- with the Loyalist pools reinforcing the ATs' strengths, and the Resistance pools shoring up weaknesses, and you have to be a member of the appropriate side to pick that side's pools. So pure Loyalists couldn't take Resistance pools and vice versa, but if you're playing both sides, you can pick from both.

 

I really like the idea behind this, lore-wise, but mechanically it'd lock almost everyone out of those pools (very few people are still gold when patron pools unlock, and you can't get back in once you leave).

As well as completely prohibiting non-gold characters from accessing it, making it more restrictive than red side patron pools which anyone can get as long as they do the 1 unlock mission at the end of the first arc.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

As well as completely prohibiting non-gold characters from accessing it,

Since epic/patron pools don't unlock until 35, the Praetorian content would need to be extended to cover at least to there if not all the way to 50, and if you're going to do that, there should be some procedure akin to morality missions to allow a character to 'prove themselves' to Powers Division or the Resistance leadership to join that group and get contacts. That's part of what would make it nastier to do, because it's not just defining the pools and the unlock arcs, it's building out the whole post-20 progression for both sides, with the 'transfer to Primal Earth' mission being a side option available from 20 on, not the end of the Praetoria storyline.

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Since epic/patron pools don't unlock until 35, the Praetorian content would need to be extended to cover at least to there if not all the way to 50, and if you're going to do that, there should be some procedure akin to morality missions to allow a character to 'prove themselves' to Powers Division or the Resistance leadership to join that group and get contacts. That's part of what would make it nastier to do, because it's not just defining the pools and the unlock arcs, it's building out the whole post-20 progression for both sides, with the 'transfer to Primal Earth' mission being a side option available from 20 on, not the end of the Praetoria storyline.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/First_Ward

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Night_Ward

 

The Praetorian story line goes out to level 35. It's just that starting at level 20, it is not limited to Praetorian characters for accessibility. (Edit: And as a gold side player, you also need to know you can just go there and do arcs instead of going directly to Primal Earth.)

 

(Edit again: First Ward even has a Loyalist contact that seemingly reports directly to Tyrant. She always has missions to give players until they out-level the zone. She just has no arcs.)

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct punctuation.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

wow this is a fantastic idea!

the perfect way to implement patron power pools that could and should exist such as

 

poison

plant

radiation

sound

[A.I.D.A.]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:27 PM, srmalloy said:

It would be nastier to do, because of the additional work setting everything up, but having two sets of patron pools -- Loyalist and Resistance -- with the Loyalist pools reinforcing the ATs' strengths, and the Resistance pools shoring up weaknesses, and you have to be a member of the appropriate side to pick that side's pools. So pure Loyalists couldn't take Resistance pools and vice versa, but if you're playing both sides, you can pick from both.

 

What happens to the characters who have it and then lose their alignment coming to Primal Earth? Etc, etc. I think there's a long laundry list of reasons why the requirement for a non-permanent alignment would be a bad idea.

 

Do you want these to be accessible at Lv. 18~20? Because the default 'path' Praetorian characters have sends them to Primal Earth after the Lv. 20 arcs. A few people might stay longer than that, and level extremely slowly using random content they've outlevelled until it stops granting XP, but they are not the norm by any stretch.

 

The New Praetorians' arc starts around Lv. 35, however, in Brickstown, and like the OP said, pools based on them would make a whole lot more sense. Especially if it gets us Aurora Pena's psi-whips as a pool power.

[biostem]

Why not just do generic Statesman/Tyrant, Positron/Antimatter, Sister Psyche/Mother Mayhem, etc Patron Pools, so players can RP which version they have?

[Chance Jackson]

as for unlocking these pools i figure starting (or completing) the New Praetorians arc should suffice, completing the relevant incarnate trials ought to work as well

[Chance Jackson]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Why not just do generic Statesman/Tyrant, Positron/Antimatter, Sister Psyche/Mother Mayhem, etc Patron Pools, so players can RP which version they have?

I mostly had the literal "new praetorians" group in mind as patrons but im not opposed to your idea

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, A.I.D.A. said:

What happens to the characters who have it and then lose their alignment coming to Primal Earth?

What happens to a villain who get a patron pool and then change alignment to Hero?

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

What happens to a villain who get a patron pool and then change alignment to Hero?

I'm assuming you asked this rhetorically, but just in case you didn't, the answer is "nothing" - You keep all your powers/pool unlocks.

[Rudra]

45 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

4 hours ago, A.I.D.A. said:

What happens to the characters who have it and then lose their alignment coming to Primal Earth?

What happens to a villain who get a patron pool and then change alignment to Hero?

There is a difference though. Patron pools can be unlocked by any character. All that is required is to do the specific unlock mission at the end of the 1st arc from the patron. So you can start hero, go rogue/villain, and get a patron; start hero, go vigilante, and tag along on said mission; or be a rogue or villain and unlock those pools by doing the patron arc. Your proposal as is would lock out anyone that is not currently a Praetorian alignment since it is impossible to become a Loyalist or Resistance past level 20, or at all if you don't start gold side.

 

There is also the consideration that no character can have more than one alignment at a time. Even the Praetorians. So either you are a Loyalist or you are Resistance. Which alignment you start as unlocks access to a specific contact that can modify specific missions, but otherwise, no character is both Loyalist and Resistance. The game does not track multiple alignments per character. This is evident in a character's inability to use Resistance doors after going Loyalist even if they started as Resistance, and vice versa for going Resistance, until they change their alignment to again be the correct one to use the correct doors. So dumb question, as in I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but how would a character be both alignments to access both sets of pools?

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

There is a difference though. Patron pools can be unlocked by any character. All that is required is to do the specific unlock mission at the end of the 1st arc from the patron.

Oh? So a character that's a Hero can just go to Arbiter Rein and run a patron arc? Or join the last mission of someone else's arc?

[Rudra]

28 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

There is a difference though. Patron pools can be unlocked by any character. All that is required is to do the specific unlock mission at the end of the 1st arc from the patron.

Oh? So a character that's a Hero can just go to Arbiter Rein and run a patron arc? Or join the last mission of someone else's arc?

They can't access the zone. If they could, like Vigilantes can, then yeah, they probably could join someone's mission and unlock the patron pools like Vigilantes do. (Edit: Unlike the Praetorian zones that anyone can access.)

Edited July 26, 2023 by Rudra

[TheZag]

Parts of the praetorian storyline would probably need a rework to make it possible to add new content without introducing some serious jank.  Even as it sits right now,  primal earth characters are traveling back in time when they visit the praetorian zones.  Its even worse for gold side characters that move to primal earth and then return. The city is actually destroyed and is an overgrown forest that is under attack by praetorian hamidon but you would never know that by visiting the zones.  It needs to be this way for gameplay purposes but we can only go so far before 'because reasons' isnt good enough anymore.

 

The ending cutscene of magi trial and probably underground trial would need some alterations as well as the new praetorian stuff to really open up the ability to make additions gold side (mostly to avoid destroying the city and the hami attack).  Those events would probably need to get linked to ouro in some way since they are always meddling and it would need to be possible future stuff.

 

I think there is room to finish off gold side to level 50 and include their versions of patron pool powers but i doubt the team would want it to be a mess of game lore.  Some of what i mentioned above would likely need to get addressed to have it added inside of praetoria.  Keeping things completely seperate from praetorian zones would be much easier by just making additions through the praetorians that moved to primal earth as mentioned in the OP.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

This thread has piqued my curiosity. @Chance Jackson what would you propose as powers for each of the new praetorian patrons? would the available powers shift based on AT like existing ancillary power pools and patron power pools? What numbers would you suggest for balancing? What slotting options would be available?

[A.I.D.A.]

11 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Oh? So a character that's a Hero can just go to Arbiter Rein and run a patron arc? Or join the last mission of someone else's arc?

 

Disingenuous argument. Don't do that, it's a bad look. But yes, with two quick trips to Null, they can in fact do just that. But it's only because both of those alignments still exist through all levels of the game. There are no Loyalists or Resistance members in Primal Earth. And patron pools are not Lv. 18~20 things. They're ancillary/epic pools and those happen at Lv. 35 -- a level by which Praetorian characters have been Primal for 15 levels.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by A.I.D.A.

[lemming]

23 minutes ago, A.I.D.A. said:

 

Disingenuous argument. Don't do that, it's a bad look. But yes, with two quick trips to Null, they can in fact do just that. But it's only because both of those alignments still exist through all levels of the game. There are no Loyalists or Resistance members in Primal Earth. And patron pools are not Lv. 18~20 things. They're ancillary/epic pools and those happen at Lv. 35 -- a level by which Praetorian characters have been Primal for 15 levels.

I wouldn't say it's common, but there are Praetorians that run all the way to 50.   And you can run First Ward & Night Ward fine without coming over to Primal.

 

One thing they can't do once they finish their last Praetoria arc is change between Loyalist & Resistance.