That power cancel, switch, power cancel, switch...is broken.

[Solarverse]

That can't be intended? That looks like a straight up broken mechanic. Could that even be considered an exploit? I mean, no Warshade should be doing that kind of damage.

 

I am shocked this has not already been called out, so I assume the Devs are good with this?

What are the thoughts? Not your biased thoughts...come on fellas, what is your honest thoughts bias aside?

Edited August 31, 2023 by Solarverse

[honoroit]

tri form ws is pretty great

figs - goes faster than most (you)

[nihilii]

As someone who gave it a go then gave up due to the complexity involved, my honest thoughts are: this is fine, ish.

This gives kheldians a path to get close (but not even reach parity) with the top end builds of other ATs. Basically, 1000% of the effort for 80-90% of the performance *in ideal conditions*. In less than ideal conditions, if you slip up or if the enemy complexity forces different reactions out of you, this can make for cascading failure. Even managing Momentum on old Titan Weapons is child's play in comparison.

 

I'm admirative of players with the drive to push kheldians so far.

Edited August 31, 2023 by nihilii

[GM Crumpet]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

I am shocked this has not already been called out, so I assume the Devs are good with this?
 

The devs are fully aware, and they do have a bit of an overhaul of Khelds in the pipeline (which I know nothing of) so are of the opinion at the moment that while there are exploits to make khelds better, they aren't game breaking as such so are fine. There is the proviso of course that at some point, eventually, in the fullness of time etc. it may be fixed and no longer work, but that's for another day and hopefully any changes they make will be better alts in the long run. The devs are of the opinion that if players need to use bugs/exploits to play to their full potential then the AT needs looking at.

[Laucianna]

Yeah as Crumpet said, the Devs are well aware and have said they will keep it in the game (Though nerfed from what it was when found (It now roots you as you fire off your powers)) until Kheldians get a rework, that could be in the next patch or a patch 5 years from now so there's no saying how long it has left.

And with the kind of damage, even with how spammy it is it won't compare to a damage AT otherwise it would be changed instantly XD

 

 - Lauci x

[Solarverse]

13 hours ago, Laucianna said:

Yeah as Crumpet said, the Devs are well aware and have said they will keep it in the game (Though nerfed from what it was when found (It now roots you as you fire off your powers)) until Kheldians get a rework, that could be in the next patch or a patch 5 years from now so there's no saying how long it has left.

And with the kind of damage, even with how spammy it is it won't compare to a damage AT otherwise it would be changed instantly XD

 

 - Lauci x

 

I play human form and feel it could use some love, however, I seen what tri-forms can do these days and was like, "Holy shit....there is no way human form will ever see a buff when Warshades are pulling that crap off."

So hopefully they fix what is broken and buff what they feel needs to be buffed at the same time. I can hope anyway.  😄

[arcane]

Yes it is an exploit. It needed to be fixed yesterday, but, alas, they’ll take their time.

[Laucianna]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Yes it is an exploit. It needed to be fixed yesterday, but, alas, they’ll take their time.

The GMs have already said they will keep it in the game for players to use until Kheldians get a buff 🙂
 - Lauci x
 

[Laucianna]

13 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

I play human form and feel it could use some love, however, I seen what tri-forms can do these days and was like, "Holy shit....there is no way human form will ever see a buff when Warshades are pulling that crap off."

So hopefully they fix what is broken and buff what they feel needs to be buffed at the same time. I can hope anyway.  😄

Yeah sadly Human only does fall short at the moment compared to Tri form, but I feel like they always will as Kheldians are all about the different forms and being utility based, switching to doing what the team needs at the moment and a Tri form can do that better then a human only (Even without the exploits)

- Lauci x

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

The GMs have already said they will keep it in the game for players to use until Kheldians get a buff 🙂
 - Lauci x
 

And I disagree with intentionally keeping exploits around just because a class is otherwise underperforming. All I’m saying. 

[Laucianna]

19 hours ago, arcane said:

And I disagree with intentionally keeping exploits around just because a class is otherwise underperforming. All I’m saying. 

Thats okay I know a few people agree with you, was just saying the GMs are aware of it and will keep it in the game until the Kheldians get reworked ❤️ 

- Lauci x

[User]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:10 PM, Laucianna said:

The GMs have already said they will keep it in the game for players to use until Kheldians get a buff 🙂
 - Lauci x
 

In that case would someone please fill those of us who aren't in the know in so we can have kheld fun meanwhile ? How does this trick work?

Edited September 5, 2023 by User

[Laucianna]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:55 PM, User said:

In that case would someone please fill those of us who aren't in the know in so we can have kheld fun meanwhile ? How does this trick work?

I talk about it in my guide and include the bindings and video examples of what to do ❤️ 

 - Lauci x

[honoroit]

^ probably because they made the form change instant (good).

 

ive never done that - linked a bind to

1>drop form

2> use power from dropped form

3>re-enter form

allowing you to skip anim time on the ghost power ordering shouldnt allow but implementation does.

 

so theres the cancel and immediate cast.

 

 @Laucianna has videos and actual bind commands.

 

you could do this with the tank form to with its relevant skills, on all your skills where theres form shifting or can be, to cheat in the changeover...

 

...thats definately cheating spirit of letting khelds change form insta, and conceptually shows as so in bind commands you'd create to exploit the behavior.

 

because its clear your referring to the past (a power from a form youre not in) as part of a chain to avoid cast time.

 

probably next Figs - psi melee / dark stalker (to hurt for/with khelds)

Edited September 8, 2023 by honoroit

[Videra]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:57 AM, Solarverse said:

That can't be intended? That looks like a straight up broken mechanic. Could that even be considered an exploit? I mean, no Warshade should be doing that kind of damage.

 

I am shocked this has not already been called out, so I assume the Devs are good with this?

What are the thoughts? Not your biased thoughts...come on fellas, what is your honest thoughts bias aside?

'Intended' or not, it's what makes Khelds scratch the middle of the pack point where they are. WS and PB would be completely in the dumpster without changeling and objectively need a rework to bring them up to modern standards.

It bears pointing out that the devs have let Khelds keep the changeling playstyle for now because of the fact they're painfully underperforming without.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Videra said:

'Intended' or not, it's what makes Khelds scratch the middle of the pack point where they are. WS and PB would be completely in the dumpster without changeling and objectively need a rework to bring them up to modern standards.

It bears pointing out that the devs have let Khelds keep the changeling playstyle for now because of the fact they're painfully underperforming without.

 

I always play Human form, never felt like I was under-performing. Now, not saying on paper I'm not, on paper I probably am, I am just saying I do not feel like I am under-performing. If the Devs want to buff them then fix that form switching, I won't complain...but what they are doing now is seriously OP, imo.

[Laucianna]

53 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

I always play Human form, never felt like I was under-performing. Now, not saying on paper I'm not, on paper I probably am, I am just saying I do not feel like I am under-performing. If the Devs want to buff them then fix that form switching, I won't complain...but what they are doing now is seriously OP, imo.

It would be seriously op imo if they were doing damage equal to the higher damage AT's but frankly they're not even with the changeling binds, now not saying we should do equal damage, far from it as otherwise we would 100% be op, but we should be able to do more damage then a tanker without the changeling bindings which we currently don't.

 

 - Lauci x

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, Laucianna said:

It would be seriously op imo if they were doing damage equal to the higher damage AT's but frankly they're not even with the changeling binds, now not saying we should do equal damage, far from it as otherwise we would 100% be op, but we should be able to do more damage then a tanker without the changeling bindings which we currently don't.

 

 - Lauci x

 

I can completely agree to this.

[Troo]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:28 PM, GM Crumpet said:

The devs are of the opinion that if players need to use bugs/exploits to play to their full potential then the AT needs looking at.

 

maybe i just dont know the proper definition of 'exploit'.

 

it seems this allows folks to exceed their intended potential.

this could have a ripple effect in that players who do this may then expect the same broken performance in other archetypes.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Troo

[Laucianna]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

 

maybe i just dont know the proper definition of 'exploit'.

 

i seems this allows folks to exceed their intended potential.

this could have a ripple effect in that players who do this may then expect the same broken performance in other archetypes.

That's true if the AT is well balanced, exploiting would break the game balance, the difference here is Kheldians are under powered atm and even the Devs know this or they wouldn't of reversed the removal of the Changeling binds ❤️

 

 - Lauci x
 

[Solarverse]

41 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

That's true if the AT is well balanced, exploiting would break the game balance, the difference here is Kheldians are under powered atm and even the Devs know this or they wouldn't of reversed the removal of the Changeling binds ❤️

 

 - Lauci x
 

 

Don't hold your breath. Regen is under-performing as well and that has not been changed in over 18 years.

[honoroit]

^ dunno about regen, but spirit tree in plant should be 800% base regen, or more.

[Troo]

11 hours ago, Laucianna said:

That's true if the AT is well balanced, exploiting would break the game balance, the difference here is Kheldians are under powered atm and even the Devs know this or they wouldn't of reversed the removal of the Changeling binds ❤️

 

 - Lauci x
 

 

that's fair. i chimed in with my nickel's worth.

 

it's not like folks readily expect "to be able to hit like a blaster choking down reds AND defend like a tricked out brute".. silly Troo.

 

 

[Laucianna]

17 hours ago, honoroit said:

^ dunno about regen, but spirit tree in plant should be 800% base regen, or more.

And it should actually be a tree not a bloody bush 😄

 

 - Lauci x

[GM Crumpet]

As a player, I always found khelds really underwhelming and meh as I got overwhelmed with the vast array of options and very little knowledge of how to actually play one. Indeed, I made and deleted a WS and PB several years ago, having got to around level 20 then power levelling to 50 to see if they got better, but they didn't. Last April I made one of each during the mapserver event and once they hit level 50 I parked them up thinking I'll get round to trying them again at some point but never did. Then I met Laucianna by accident and came across her rather excellent guide, plus the fact she worked with me one to one to help me understand the mechanics, and to make a good build based on my own play style. I started with Dooms builds, then tweaked them.

 

And you know what? They are so much fun. I'm busier than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs and occasionally find I need my self rez as part of my attack chain, but playing a tri-form is just so enjoyable. They tank, just not as well as a tank, they blast, just not as well as a blaster, they buff and debuff, just not as well as a defender/controller. Yet somehow the combination is more than the sum of it's parts. I don't use the macros, I just have the forms on a key and a flick of the key and they swap between them. The TP is on one key, the form changes are on others. Move my little finger slightly and press. Instant form change. For me that's what makes khelds so versatile. WS teleports in, shadow slip, eclipse, mire, dwarf, mire, human, nuke, back to dwarf. Slap things till they stop moving. Dark extraction and move on. PB I find easier, light form, squid, shoot things, lobster as needed. Nuke on demand.

I admit, I'm at the point where inf isn't a problem, so slotting the best enhancements is automatic, but even with less expensive enhancements a good knowledge of the mechanics of how to optimise your playstyle makes a confusing array of abilities much easier to get your head round. I've never had to spend as much inf as I have slotting my khelds. As with masterminds, you can tweak macros and binds to fine tune how you want to play, but at the risk of an outcry (No Crumpet you're an idiot!!) you don't really need much. When I play a mastermind I only use the default pet command buttons and don't see any need for anything more complicated. Same with khelds. Outside of some keybinds to make the most used powers easy access I don't feel like I'm at any great disadvantage not having a tray full of macros. Seeing the love given to some of the MM sets like Undead and Mercs to make them very playable I'll be interested to see what the devs have in mind with the khelds. Hopefully they will listen to and take feedback from the leaders of the kheld community like Laucianna before they make any final decisions. No point asking me, I just listen and  pay attention, then implement the suggestions to make me better. I'll tell someone if there is a must have power like light form or self rez, or argue that I don't find a power effective, but for the most part I just follow the experts and look at how they do things and try to copy them.