HIDE

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Sup all, this is more of a request for information than it is a suggestion.

Why is Hide not an auto power on stalkers?

it already uses no endurance.

are there stalkers out there who forego hide?

 

please note:

I am not advocating Hide becoming an auto power.

This is a serious question.

I am stupid.

thanks.

 

(if this question is in the wrong thread can a GM please move it to the correct thread? also sorry)

[Uun]

You need to turn it off to escort hostages.

[Akisan]

To clarify - pretty sure you're asking why Hide isn't an inherent power (like Rest or Sprint), but don't want it to be an Auto power (like Health or Stamina).

 

I'm not against it - Dominators have Domination as an inherent, after all. It's just part of the class mechanics.  I'm not sure what would replace Hide in the Stalker secondaries though, and I'm concerned that the chance could further blur the distinction between Stalkers and Scrappers.

[Rudra]

Like @Uun said, there are escort missions that require the character to not have any form of stealth power active, and yes, believe it or not, there are players that for some reason don't take Hide on their Stalkers. (I don't know why, but they do.)

[SwitchFade]

18 hours ago, Akisan said:

To clarify - pretty sure you're asking why Hide isn't an inherent power (like Rest or Sprint), but don't want it to be an Auto power (like Health or Stamina).

 

I'm not against it - Dominators have Domination as an inherent, after all. It's just part of the class mechanics.  I'm not sure what would replace Hide in the Stalker secondaries though, and I'm concerned that the chance could further blur the distinction between Stalkers and Scrappers.

Are iherents slottable?

[SeraphimKensai]

On 9/21/2023 at 8:00 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

are there stalkers out there who forego hide?

Once we were given the opportunity to skip the first power in our secondaries, I did make a hide-less stalker for a gimmick it's somewhere in the 30's or so. Plays like a single target focused scrapper.

[Uun]

3 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Are iherents slottable?

No, but some of the ATOs affect the behavior of the inherents.

[srmalloy]

22 hours ago, Rudra said:

Like @Uun said, there are escort missions that require the character to not have any form of stealth power active,

I'm pretty sure that Domination doesn't activate automatically when its bar fills. 😉Having Hide for Stalkers be an inherent that's a toggle shouldn't be conceptually difficult for the class; if someone wants to play their Stalker without Hide, they don't have to use it.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

23 hours ago, Rudra said:

Like @Uun said, there are escort missions that require the character to not have any form of stealth power active,

I'm pretty sure that Domination doesn't activate automatically when its bar fills. 😉Having Hide for Stalkers be an inherent that's a toggle shouldn't be conceptually difficult for the class; if someone wants to play their Stalker without Hide, they don't have to use it.

Well, the OP was about Hide being an auto power. It was @Akisan that thought the request was for it to be an inherent. Before I get into the rest of this post though, I want to be perfectly clear that I am opposed to making Hide an inherent power. (Or an auto power for that matter.) So, some questions:

 

1) If Hide was made into an inherent power, what would it be replaced with?

 

2) If Hide was made into an inherent power, then why shouldn't other ATs get one of their primary theme powers as an inherent as well?

        2.1) What would those other newly inherent powers be replaced with?

 

3) What problem does making Hide into an inherent fix or situation does it address? (Especially since players that for some reason don't want Hide on their Stalkers can already skip Hide.)

 

The question of Hide being made into an auto power is easy to answer. If Hide was an auto power on Stalkers, then Stalkers would not be able to do a multitude of missions solo, including story arcs. The question of Hide as an inherent is "Why?!".

[tidge]

I think Hide is perfectly fine as is; changing it seems to fall into the "solution in search of a problem" category.

 

As it is now: Hide is a perfectly good power to slot with any one of the many good Defense Enhancements. I would hate to lose the ability to slot Defense pieces into Hide, my favorite is to start with the Kismet +ToHit piece, even if Hide needs to be toggle on to get the +6%. That choice is a real blessing for Stalkers as they level up, YMMV if it is kept in a "final build". I believe I always have done so.

[SwitchFade]

So, we've as gleaned that Inherents are not slottable, Hide doesn't always need to be on, and shouldn't. So, this is why Hide is fine as is,

 

1. It's slottable

2. You don't always want it on

3. If it were made auto, it would lose some of its stats

 

@Uunsorry, my question about the inherent was a sarcastic 😝, didn't mean for anyone to actually answer 😱

 

[Akisan]

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Well, the OP was about Hide being an auto power. It was @Akisan that thought the request was for it to be an inherent.

 

Whoops, guess I mis-read that one.  But, well, seeing as we've a fun thought experiment going anyways...

 

13 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Are iherents slottable?

 

Yes and no.  Some (like Rest, Sprint and Stamina) are, and others (like Walk, Domination or Gauntlet) aren't.

So yes, Hide could be made into a slottable inherent

 

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Before I get into the rest of this post though, I want to be perfectly clear that I am opposed to making Hide an inherent power. (Or an auto power for that matter.) So, some questions:

 

1) If Hide was made into an inherent power, what would it be replaced with?

 

2) If Hide was made into an inherent power, then why shouldn't other ATs get one of their primary theme powers as an inherent as well?

        2.1) What would those other newly inherent powers be replaced with?

 

3) What problem does making Hide into an inherent fix or situation does it address? (Especially since players that for some reason don't want Hide on their Stalkers can already skip Hide.)

 

 

1) If I had to add a power to Stalkers, I'd be tempted to pick Aim (maybe named "True Strike" though), to give them a little more of a DPS edge over scrappers. I think of the sliding scale of intended Melee AT balance as:   Tank <> Brute <> Scrapper <> Stalker (more toughness on left, more damage on right), and this'd help stalkers do a bit more on that front. (instead of just being a ST-focused, somewhat sneakier flavor of Scrapper)

 

2) As this would be a part of a rebalancing of an AT that's (too) similar to another AT, such a change to the other ATs wouldn't be needed.

 

3) AT distinction?  Like I mentioned earlier in my post though, it's really hard not to think of Stalkers as just sneaky, ST-focused Scrappers.  An extra burst of damage (and being able to more reliably hit those harder targets) might help make up for the lower AoE potential though.

 

(And please keep in mind - I rarely play melee ATs, so I'm just giving my impression from teaming with said ATs.)

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Akisan
Typoes, clarifying reasoning

[FupDup]

8 minutes ago, Akisan said:

1) If I had to add a power to Stalkers, I'd be tempted to pick Aim (maybe named "True Strike" though), to give them a little more of a DPS edge over scrappers. I think of the sliding scale of intended Melee AT balance as:   Tank <> Brute <> Scrapper <> Stalker (more toughness on left, more damage on right), and this'd help stalkers do a bit more on that front. (instead of just being a ST-focused, somewhat sneakier flavor of Scrapper)

Instead of adding a new power, the existing Build Up on Stalkers could just be replaced with a variant that had a larger buff. 

 

But really, I don't think such a change is really urgent right now. Stalkers are good, albeit somewhat specialized. More distinction/flavor would be nice but I think that there are other ATs that need help much more. Ideally they should be more significantly different, but as long as Scrappers and Stalkers are both good (which they are) then that's not a bad place to be. 

[biostem]

I don't think hide should be an auto power, for purposes of escort missions, as previously mentioned.  I don't think it should be made an inherent power, either, as stalkers already have some good inherent abilities and don't need more help.

[kelika2]

i wanna say that only regen and willpower gave up something significant for Hide.  others got stuff rolled into other things.

reflexes lost its auto aoe def because hide does pretty much the same thing

dark lost its something something im not doing the whole secondaries

[A.I.D.A.]

6 hours ago, kelika2 said:

i wanna say that only regen and willpower gave up something significant for Hide.  others got stuff rolled into other things.

reflexes lost its auto aoe def because hide does pretty much the same thing

dark lost its something something im not doing the whole secondaries

 

Reflex loses the auto AoE defense because its value got rolled into the toggle AoE defense on Stalkers.

[macskull]

The defense got rolled into the toggle, but the scaling resist and DDR didn't, unfortunately.

[A.I.D.A.]

Yep, it has one less scaling resist source than other ATs.