Option to remove enhancement visual effects

[Klaleara]

Asking for the option to remove enhancement based trigger effects.

 

Example being the hold enhancement causing an electrical cage. Seems idiotic for my controller to not have the enhancement, but really sucks when my gravity controller just locks people in electrical cages all day lol.  I enjoy seeing my gravity powers at work.

[biostem]

21 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Asking for the option to remove enhancement based trigger effects.

They would probably have to add a version that doesn't have the extra effects, since it is "baked in" to the proc.  Still, I'd be for this...

[srmalloy]

There needs to be a visual effect to inform you that the proc has triggered. Your complaint is also applicable to every single damage proc slotted in a power with a different damage type — why should you 'have' to see fire effects on a target you've hit with an ice blast? It's a bit jarring to see a different special effect appear when a proc triggers, but as a request for a change to something baked deeply into the game, I feel that it's so far down the list of priorities that I wouldn't expect to ever see it happen.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

maybe it would be easier to modify the actual names of the IO set to reflect the procs effect, so the player knows what the effect would be before slotting the IO.

for example:

Blistering cold set / Proc = chance for hold

Because this set is part of a cold set obviously the chance for hold would be ice. (which it is)

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

maybe it would be easier to modify the actual names of the IO set to reflect the procs effect, so the player knows what the effect would be before slotting the IO.

for example:

Blistering cold set / Proc = chance for hold

Because this set is part of a cold set obviously the chance for hold would be ice. (which it is)

They already do? Like you said in your example, Blistering Cold's chance to hold s obviously going to be ice because it is the Blistering Cold set. So I don't understand why anyone is surprised when it triggers and encases the target in ice. Or Winter's Bite's chance for -speed and recharge. "Why is my target shedding snow and surrounded by wisps of cold?!" "Do you have Winter's Bite's proc slotted?" "Yes." "That's why." "But why?!" *face palm*

 

Other procs specifically state what they do in the proc itself like "Chance for fire damage". So people complaining that their fire damage, negative damage, whatever proc is doing exactly what it already says it does blows my mind.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

10 minutes ago, Rudra said:

They already do? Like you said in your example, Blistering Cold's chance to hold s obviously going to be ice because it is the Blistering Cold set. So I don't understand why anyone is surprised when it triggers and encases the target in ice. Or Winter's Bite's chance for -speed and recharge. "Why is my target shedding snow and surrounded by wisps of cold?!" "Do you have Winter's Bite's proc slotted?" "Yes." "That's why." "But why?!" *face palm*

 

Other procs specifically state what they do in the proc itself like "Chance for fire damage". So people complaining that their fire damage, negative damage, whatever proc is doing exactly what it already says it does blows my mind.

 

Not all of them do

Ranged Set - Devastation - proc =  chance to hold

Holds  - Lockdown - Proc = Chance for hold

 

[megaericzero]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

There needs to be a visual effect to inform you that the proc has triggered. Your complaint is also applicable to every single damage proc slotted in a power with a different damage type — why should you 'have' to see fire effects on a target you've hit with an ice blast? It's a bit jarring to see a different special effect appear when a proc triggers, but as a request for a change to something baked deeply into the game, I feel that it's so far down the list of priorities that I wouldn't expect to ever see it happen.

 

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Other procs specifically state what they do in the proc itself like "Chance for fire damage". So people complaining that their fire damage, negative damage, whatever proc is doing exactly what it already says it does blows my mind.

 

I don't think it's crazy to want more subtle or generic visuals, or even to want the ability to forego the effects as a hit confirm.

 

This is just my opinion but your choice of powers (primary, secondary, ancillary, pool, inherent, temporary, incarnate) should have a bearing on your visuals but your enhancements should not.

Inspirations offer generic crosshairs, shields, and ... Sim-diamond things to show your accuracy, defense/resistance, or damage are being buffed. Judgment and Interface come with an assortment of fire, ice, electric, and dark options to pick from for people who want to keep their specific theme.

[Luminara]

[Rudra]

46 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

Not all of them do

Ranged Set - Devastation - proc =  chance to hold

Holds  - Lockdown - Proc = Chance for hold

 

I don't think I've seen the visual effects for those procs, and I do use them. Maybe I just tune them out. What are they?

 

29 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

There needs to be a visual effect to inform you that the proc has triggered. Your complaint is also applicable to every single damage proc slotted in a power with a different damage type — why should you 'have' to see fire effects on a target you've hit with an ice blast? It's a bit jarring to see a different special effect appear when a proc triggers, but as a request for a change to something baked deeply into the game, I feel that it's so far down the list of priorities that I wouldn't expect to ever see it happen.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Other procs specifically state what they do in the proc itself like "Chance for fire damage". So people complaining that their fire damage, negative damage, whatever proc is doing exactly what it already says it does blows my mind.

 

I don't think it's crazy to want more subtle or generic visuals, or even to want the ability to forego the effects as a hit confirm.

 

This is just my opinion but your choice of powers (primary, secondary, ancillary, pool, inherent, temporary, incarnate) should have a bearing on your visuals but your enhancements should not.

Inspirations offer generic crosshairs, shields, and ... Sim-diamond things to show your accuracy, defense/resistance, or damage are being buffed. Judgment and Interface come with an assortment of fire, ice, electric, and dark options to pick from for people who want to keep their specific theme.

I can sort of agree. I do admit there have been times when I wish I could slot a Blistering Cold and not have my target encased in ice from my fire attack. However, I'm the one that slotted an ice proc into that power, so it was obviously my choice to make my fire attack have an ice effect. I am much less in favor of having the devs go through the hassle of trying separate the enhancement's coded effect from the enhancement itself so that players can turn it off, especially since it is an enhancement we don't need in our thematic powers but chose to slot anyway, and am more in favor of added sets that have different visuals.

 

Edit: And yes, enhancements should affect our powers' visuals. That is the point of enhancing something. You augment it with something else. Using the Blistering Cold Hold proc on a fire attack example? The character augmented his/her/their/its fire power with ice, like maybe a simultaneously fired underslung freeze ray that isn't reliable enough to always trigger on their flamethrower, hitting the enemy with the double effect of hot and cold to break them. Or a mystic who tinkered with his/her/their/its fireball spell to not only roast their targets, but also drain their body temperature to weaken the target's ability to withstand the fire that sometimes causes the surrounding air to crystalize and freeze the target in ice. (And that's before you get into the fun of Chaos Mages... that I am no longer allowed to play in any D&D games....)

Edited September 27, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I don't think I've seen the visual effects for those procs, and I do use them. Maybe I just tune them out. What are they?

The devastation one is a tesla electric cage/sphere.  I use it on my DP/Nin Sentinel for a mag 6 hold when cryo ammo is toggled on.  I don't mind it per se, but I get how it might mess with someone's concept.

[megaericzero]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

I don't think I've seen the visual effects for those procs, and I do use them. Maybe I just tune them out. What are they?

 

I can sort of agree. I do admit there have been times when I wish I could slot a Blistering Cold and not have my target encased in ice from my fire attack. However, I'm the one that slotted an ice proc into that power, so it was obviously my choice to make my fire attack have an ice effect. I am much less in favor of having the devs go through the hassle of trying separate the enhancement's coded effect from the enhancement itself so that players can turn it off, especially since it is an enhancement we don't need in our thematic powers but chose to slot anyway, and am more in favor of added sets that have different visuals.

 

Edit: And yes, enhancements should affect our powers' visuals. That is the point of enhancing something. You augment it with something else. Using the Blistering Cold Hold proc on a fire attack example? The character augmented his/her/their/its fire power with ice, like maybe a simultaneously fired underslung freeze ray that isn't reliable enough to always trigger on their flamethrower, hitting the enemy with the double effect of hot and cold to break them. Or a mystic who tinkered with his/her/their/its fireball spell to not only roast their targets, but also drain their body temperature to weaken the target's ability to withstand the fire that sometimes causes the surrounding air to crystalize and freeze the target in ice. (And that's before you get into the fun of Chaos Mages... that I am no longer allowed to play in any D&D games....)

 

You had me in the first half. More enhancement sets are a plus. I would have no opposition to them displaying visual effects if more sets were added with similar proc effects to cover more themes. As for dev time, totally understandable.

 

I also understand what you're saying in the second half but disagree. There's a level of agency players are given over their character's appearance - including powers. You pick your role and how you achieve it during character creation; pool powers have subtle and generic visuals except maybe Aid Other looking rather tech-y (not counting origin pools); destiny and hybrid are similarly generic; there's enough choices in epic pools and judgment/interface/lore options to cover nearly all themes.

 

Granted we never had procs before inventions existed but enhancements - which I'd equate to other games' equipment - never had a bearing on your visuals. And that is part of COH's strong customization. Otherwise magic characters would look like a walking jewelry store and science characters would blind everyone with their radioactive glow. Either options to have subtler effects, more generic visuals, or more procs with comparable effects (and bonuses?) would alleviate the situation.

[Rudra]

56 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Granted we never had procs before inventions existed but enhancements - which I'd equate to other games' equipment - never had a bearing on your visuals.

Gotta disagree with you there. Every online game I've played that had equipment, the equipment very much changed the visuals assigned to the character. Case in point: WoW, where everyone looks pretty much identical at the end levels because they all equip the same gear.

 

Now as for the enhancements themselves not affecting character visuals pre-IO sets? Yeah, but they also didn't include augments like 'Chance for Fire Damage" or "Chance for Hold". The basic enhancements, even from IO sets, aren't augments, they're straight effectiveness improvements. The procs? Those are all augments, with each proc designed around a specific idea for why that function occurs or around a specific damage type being added. Those should change the visuals because you are augmenting the damage or function of the power by adding those procs. They aren't generic improvements, they are added functions with a set chance to trigger (which ranges from it is always in effect to it may only occasionally affect the fight) that the power previously did not have, even when you are talking about a "Chance for +2 Hold" in a Hold power (because you are chaining a second Hold attack to be fired concurrently with the slotted Hold attack). (Edit: As compared to +42.4% damage being slotted into your damaging power. No new function or damage type is being added, you're just improving the power's inherent ability to do damage.) Because of this, I am very much against stripping the visuals from the procs. Let's just ask for more options in the way of procs so players can match them to their themes. Especially since this option is most likely far easier and less time consuming to implement even if a new set is made for every damage type that currently lacks a Hold proc than trying to take all the existing procs and break them into separate components for turning off/on.

 

Edit again: Basically, the damage procs and the hold procs and the slow procs are separate attacks we are adding to our powers. Those attacks fire in time with our attacks when they actually trigger, but are as predefined for what they do and how as the attacks we pick up from our primaries, secondaries, and pools. To me, the OP is basically asking to be able to take an Ice/Fire Blaster, and strip out the ice and fire effects from their primary and secondary powers.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add missing "every".

[biostem]

They could have also added text prompts, like "DEVASTATION!" above the enemy when it procs.  Heck, they could have gone with the generic "struggling" animation that holds like the on in plant control triggers, (sans the actual vines).

[kelika2]

people still take aoe holds?

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

They could have also added text prompts, like "DEVASTATION!" above the enemy when it procs. 

And then players would instead be asking to be able to turn that off.

 

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

Heck, they could have gone with the generic "struggling" animation that holds like the on in plant control triggers, (sans the actual vines).

And then players would instead be asking for it encase the target in ice, it is the Blistering Cold set after all. Or be asking to turn off the generic struggling animation because their power doesn't let the target physically struggle against their mental hold, or their icy entombment, or pick your preference.

 

Face it, this discussion would be had no matter what the devs did the moment procs were implemented because unless there is a way to make those procs do exactly what each and every player wants that specific proc to do and look like, it is not acceptable for others.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, megaericzero said:

There's a level of agency players are given over their character's appearance - including powers.

 

Enhancements aren't our powers, though.

 

Historically, enhancements were something from a non-PC source.  A Science character with a Neodymium Exposure slotted didn't create neodymium.  A Magic character using Grace of Joule is somehow channeling an aspect of Joule or using a spell to imbue him/herself with some of Joule's power.  You can go through the entire list of DOs and SOs in the game and see that they were clearly intended to represent a third-party source of power.

 

This extends to IOs just as well.  Some IO sets are named for specific NPCs.  Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control.  Numina's Convalescence.  Touch of Lady Grey.  Other sets imply that they're sourced from someone or something specific, such as Winter sets.   And even though most IO sets are more generic in description, they're still beholden to the legacy of what enhancements have been established to represent.

 

They're not our powers, they're what we add to our powers.  Having fixed graphical effects is appropriate for that.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

They could have also added text prompts, like "DEVASTATION!" above the enemy when it procs.  Heck, they could have gone with the generic "struggling" animation that holds like the on in plant control triggers, (sans the actual vines).

 wish they had done this with symphony then at least foes would appear like they are dancing lol

[megaericzero]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Gotta disagree with you there. Every online game I've played that had equipment, the equipment very much changed the visuals assigned to the character. Case in point: WoW, where everyone looks pretty much identical at the end levels because they all equip the same gear.

 

Right, sorry. I worded that poorly.

That's actually what I meant to convey. Other games' equipment does change how your character looks and I equate enhancements to equipment, contrasting that (pre-IO) enhancements did not affect your appearance. That was one of the biggest selling points to me of COH's customization is that not all tankers had to look the same because of how they decided to slot their builds.

 

I definitely like your idea of implementing more sets for more thematic coverage. It provides more options, and an out for people who want to adhere to a theme (or want to exclude a theme that doesn't fit for them).

 

3 hours ago, biostem said:

They could have also added text prompts, like "DEVASTATION!" above the enemy when it procs.  Heck, they could have gone with the generic "struggling" animation that holds like the on in plant control triggers, (sans the actual vines).

 

FWIW I do think the over-the-head text and the in-your-face UI text ("Such-and-such is doing a thing!") are clunky and overused implementations for power/mission mechanics that were added later in the game's life on live.

 

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

Enhancements aren't our powers, though.

 

Historically, enhancements were something from a non-PC source.  A Science character with a Neodymium Exposure slotted didn't create neodymium.  A Magic character using Grace of Joule is somehow channeling an aspect of Joule or using a spell to imbue him/herself with some of Joule's power.  You can go through the entire list of DOs and SOs in the game and see that they were clearly intended to represent a third-party source of power.

 

Fair point. I am aware that's what enhancements have always been themed as; I've just always viewed them as flavor text for a purely-mechanical system that has no bearing on your appearance, having played before procs were a thing. (I'm also very aware though only half-willing to admit I'm crazy and wrong to think that way.) The live devs went to excessive lengths to explain things in-universe that didn't really need them, like power set proliferation.

Edited September 28, 2023 by megaericzero
Fixed a typo and expanded wording for clarity.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, megaericzero said:

FWIW I do think the over-the-head text and the in-your-face UI text ("Such-and-such is doing a thing!") are clunky and overused implementations for power/mission mechanics that were added later in the game's life on live.

I don't disagree per se, but if we want to have some sort of indicator that the proc went off, AND we don't want a particular elemental depiction, what else is there?  You could use the generic "struggling" animation that I mentioned, but I'm not sure if any other hold effects would override that.  Maybe some flat indicator around the target's feet, like the sentinel crosshair effect?

[TheZag]

Sure its possible,  but you wouldnt want it.  Lets pretend there was lockdown chance for +2 hold electric and stone versions.  Could you slot them both in the same power?  Of course not.  That would mean the enhancement would need to be unique.  Once the enhancement is unique,  you can only have 1 in your entire build.  Choose carefully where you want your single proc from each set for the entire build since the different damage procs would have to work the same way.  I recommend not pushing for this change.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

5 hours ago, megaericzero said:

FWIW I do think the over-the-head text and the in-your-face UI text ("Such-and-such is doing a thing!") are clunky and overused implementations for power/mission mechanics that were added later in the game's life on live.

CLAVE DARK 5 AGREES!

Edited September 28, 2023 by Clave Dark 5

[kelika2]

@Clave Dark 5, what?  4 min cooldown + things die way too fast + they dont do damage

 

Radiation Emission's Choking Cloud is so much better

[Saiyajinzoningen]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

I don't disagree per se, but if we want to have some sort of indicator that the proc went off, AND we don't want a particular elemental depiction, what else is there?  You could use the generic "struggling" animation that I mentioned, but I'm not sure if any other hold effects would override that.  Maybe some flat indicator around the target's feet, like the sentinel crosshair effect?

 

I actually like this indicator, I find it to be quite useful. I would much prefer this for buffs like aim/build up/power boost/rage, that way I know when its active/ending etc...

 

7 hours ago, TheZag said:

Sure its possible,  but you wouldnt want it.  Lets pretend there was lockdown chance for +2 hold electric and stone versions.  Could you slot them both in the same power?  Of course not.  That would mean the enhancement would need to be unique.  Once the enhancement is unique,  you can only have 1 in your entire build.  Choose carefully where you want your single proc from each set for the entire build since the different damage procs would have to work the same way.  I recommend not pushing for this change.

 

 

We don't actually know how the devs are going to handle the procapocalypse. This would be an incredibly harsh way to handle it imo. maybe 1 per power would be far more reasonable.

[megaericzero]

13 hours ago, TheZag said:

Sure its possible,  but you wouldnt want it.  Lets pretend there was lockdown chance for +2 hold electric and stone versions.  Could you slot them both in the same power?  Of course not.  That would mean the enhancement would need to be unique.  Once the enhancement is unique,  you can only have 1 in your entire build.  Choose carefully where you want your single proc from each set for the entire build since the different damage procs would have to work the same way.  I recommend not pushing for this change.

 

 

I had failed to consider that.

 

13 hours ago, biostem said:

I don't disagree per se, but if we want to have some sort of indicator that the proc went off, AND we don't want a particular elemental depiction, what else is there?  You could use the generic "struggling" animation that I mentioned, but I'm not sure if any other hold effects would override that.  Maybe some flat indicator around the target's feet, like the sentinel crosshair effect?

 

As Klaleara said in the OP, it would be nice to have the option to remove the effects. For those who still want to keep them, keep them.

 

If you need a confirmation of someone else's mez or debuff proc activating, the generic animation and particle effect should suffice. It's fine if powers with the same mez effect override the proc's generic particles/animation - you still have your own effects turned on for your use and you'll either notice your ally's procs display generic effects when their powers hit or your team already has those mez(zes) covered with actual powers.

 

(Hold and immobilize don't have consistent indicators as they rely on variable animations or specific power vfx but it seems like an easy job to come up with generic visuals to add to the game's aesthetic language; some sort of subtle chains for holds and shackles or boots for immobilize - similar but distinct from the ones used to indicate slowed movement.)

 

Damage is damage so I don't imagine someone needs a bigger clue than the enemy's health dropping in bigger chunks.

[Rudra]

8 hours ago, kelika2 said:

@Clave Dark 5, what?  4 min cooldown + things die way too fast + they dont do damage

 

Radiation Emission's Choking Cloud is so much better

Huh? Wrong thread maybe?