Focused Feedback: Arsenal Control

[Cyclone Jack]

4 hours ago, kidsnowflake said:

I'd imagine this is outside of the scope of the upcoming patch but if in future the powers from arsenal control could have alternate animations that have the powers emanating from the characters' hands instead of the assault rifle model it would make for a pretty great Powered Armor set combined with something like Energy Assault on a Dominator.

That's a really good idea that would add to a variety of character themes based around the same set.  You could have the gun version, the grenade version, and the power armor version.  3 different animation sets would really open up to a wide variety of character concepts.  And if you use the grenade/power armor version you'd still select the weapon during creation, but it just wouldn't draw the weapon in combat.

[PyroBeetle]

I have to say I am very disappointed by the decision to ditch the pseudopet. While the change might make the set more usable for setting up containment, in practice, this is rarely done...the pseudopet made the power usable in a wider variety of situations

[Frosticus]

49 minutes ago, PyroBeetle said:

I have to say I am very disappointed by the decision to ditch the pseudopet. While the change might make the set more usable for setting up containment, in practice, this is rarely done...the pseudopet made the power usable in a wider variety of situations

If you mean for sleep nade it is coming back next patch.

[Voltak]

On 1/30/2024 at 10:49 AM, Dispari said:

 

The thing is, sleeps aren't completely useless.

I like the sleeps from 

Elec 
Mind 
Plant 
Earth (very last place because it is PBAoE)

I like those the best.  
Reapplying sleeps are at the top of course.  

As long as it is affected by domination,  all good. 

 It's very hard or difficult to enjoy anything less than this.  
 

[Rand0lk]

In the end, the real winner of this set is the taunting sturdy pet. Everything else is...barely acceptable.

[stryve]

I completed my journey to level 10 on my Arsenal/Traps Controller, but two extra levels didn't see a lot of changes:  playstyle is still the same and won't change significantly until Smoke Canister comes along.

 

One thing I'd neglected to mention previously is the utility of Cloaking Device.  Being able to look peek around corners without being immediately jumped helps a lot, as does being able to fully scout out a group to pick the best initial angle and target of attack.  Or just bypassing 90% of the map in favor of heading straight to the objective.  I've accidentally run into mobs without them noticing me.

 

After hitting level 10, I shifted to skipping five levels, playing a mission or two to get a handle on things, then repeating.  I did this all the way to 50 using mostly SOs with a handful of IOs (KB/KD for Trip Mine and Temporal Bomb in Traps, plus the usual Endurance management procs Health and Stamina.  By the end I could manage +0x8 Radios without much trouble.  

 

Smoke Canister:  Great power, full stop.   The increased radius is helpful for mobs that aren't tightly clustered, which is common.  Smoke Canister followed by Liquid Nitrogen was my best opener as soon as it became available and remained so all the way to 50, with the plethora of soft controls heavily mitigating enemy response.  Still have to be aware of what you're fighting though:  high perception mobs such as Rularuu Sentries, Rikti Drones, and most Sniper types are likely to spot you through the smoke and engage before you're ready.  I had trouble with Nemesis in particular, since their Snipers are functionally immune to Stealth and Perception debuffs, while Jaegers are highly resistant to KD.  At least the Slows worked.

 

Flash Bang:  Decent AoE Stun, good synergy with Smoke Canister for extra -To Hit as well as activating the Confuse.  Works well as an alternate opener if Liquid Nitrogen is on recharge, otherwise just throw out as needed while working over a group.  First source of enduring AoE Containment.  

 

Tear Gas:  As mentioned elsewhere, it's a standard long-recharge AoE Hold.  Good when it's available, which is never as often as I'd like.  Occasionally I'd open with it followed by Cryo Freeze Ray to lock down a hard target.  The -Damage is a nice bonus, but 20 seconds duration is too short to be worth much on a base 4 minute recharge.

 

Tri-Cannon:  Very straightforward and bare bones pet, but it does what it's designed to do and it does it very well.  The only attack isn't especially hard hitting, but it recharges fast enough damage stacks up quickly.  This in turn helps get, and hold, agro with it's built in taunt, which means fewer things shooting at the squishy Controller.  Finally, a good HP pool and base 80% resist to everything from it's Auto Turret power lets it survive that attention without much trouble (admittedly Force Field Generator form Traps helped here as well).  One thing I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere is the pretty comprehensive suite of Mez Protection, Mez Resist, and DeBuff Resist also included in the Auto Turret power.  That doesn't cover Regen or Recovery debuffs, but everything else (including Recharge, To-Hit, and Defense debuffs) is pretty much maxed out.  Plus some extra Perception tacked on, just because.  Over all not enough to steal Best Pet from Singularity, but definitely a contender for second place.

[Shin Magmus]

Um... I just decided to check the info after the test server updated and... was this intentional?  It will be a bit hard to test if this is what's happening, but it looks like the pulsing Overpower Effect on Sleep Grenade is actually the one from Smoke Canister?  Even if it's only a text error, that should probably be fixed.

[Shin Magmus]

It looks like they did add a conditional Immobilize proc to Liquid Nitrogen as well but I'm not able to test it right now.  If there's patch notes out for this build: I can't find them.  It's Immobilize "If target is Wet", and my only assumption is that Cryo Freeze Ray makes the target Wet.

[Videra]

Am I having a stroke? Did y'all legitimately just give this set a conditional AOE Immob that we can't trigger? Can we please get some elaboration on what a wet target is?

[Maxzero]

You know a ST only Immo is not too bad for me. Most spawns will die fast enough anyway its the stupid AV that runs around like an idiot which is the real pain.

Edited February 1 by Maxzero

[Videra]

After some moderately extensive testing:

Trick Arrow and Traps do not have a means to trigger Liquid Nitrogen's AOE Immobilize. Freezing Rain in storm triggers it, so it's mind-boggling, but it seems like Arse Storm is going to be the go-to combo for controllers. I think this is absolutely ridiculous and that TA/Traps should be able to do it, too, being as they are the most likely thematic pairing. That, and Arsenal Control really should be able to trigger the affect itself.

I have spoken.

[Lockely]

48 minutes ago, Videra said:

Am I having a stroke? Did y'all legitimately just give this set a conditional AOE Immob that we can't trigger? Can we please get some elaboration on what a wet target is?

 

I assume "Wet" simply means under any of the Foe -speed effects from various Water-based attacks? 

[StarkWhite]

I'm fine with having to use two sets to pull it off, but I absolutely agree that Traps, Trick Arrow, and Arsenal Assault, as the obvious pairings for a Natural-origin character, need to have a way to do it.

Edited February 1 by StarkWhite

[Cyclone Jack]

Quote

• This power now will immobilize wet targets.

Define "wet", because none of the Ice or Water based power sets mention wet in their powers.

 

Tested alongside: 

Cold Domination: Infrigidate, Benumb, Sleet, Heat Loss

Icy Assault: All Powers

 

Nothing seemed to interact with it.

[Dispari]

What the heck is "Wet?" The power doesn't explain itself at all.

"The Liquid Nitrogen dispenser can spray a target location with liquid nitrogen creating a large patch of ice. Those caught in the patch of ice are dramatically slowed, take cold damage over time, tend to fall down and will be unable to jump. Enemies that occur to be wet will also have a chance to be immobilized in ice."

Occur to be wet?

The power's detailed info does have a proc for immobilize "if target is wet" but it doesn't explain how that works. The immobilize also isn't mentioned on the right click info, nor is it slottable in the power. For that matter you can't slot the slow either. The power doesn't seem to make them "wet" so they are not immobilized with just the power itself. None of the other powers in the set seem to make them wet or mention doing so (not that I can imagine why they would). Well, maybe Cryo Freeze Ray does but you wouldn't be able to tell since they're held.

 

Was this added as a joke?

[Cyclone Jack]

5 minutes ago, Dispari said:

 Well, maybe Cryo Freeze Ray does but you wouldn't be able to tell since they're held.

It does not.  I tested it.  And you are correct, giving a Hold a chance to also Immobilize on a Knockdown patch would be a joke.

 

Honestly, I have no idea what they're trying to.  Typically, any power set that has a "Does X with Y" has a way to do both X and Y.  This appears to be relying on specific powers from other power sets, such as Cold Domination or Icy Assault, except none of those interact with this either.  Or, even worse, it is relying on powers only available to non Controllers/Dominators, such as Water Blast specifically.

 

Hopefully, they simply forgot to flag all of the Cold/Ice powers as causing the 'wet' condition.

[Videra]

11 minutes ago, Dispari said:

What the heck is "Wet?" The power doesn't explain itself at all.

"The Liquid Nitrogen dispenser can spray a target location with liquid nitrogen creating a large patch of ice. Those caught in the patch of ice are dramatically slowed, take cold damage over time, tend to fall down and will be unable to jump. Enemies that occur to be wet will also have a chance to be immobilized in ice."

Occur to be wet?

The power's detailed info does have a proc for immobilize "if target is wet" but it doesn't explain how that works. The immobilize also isn't mentioned on the right click info, nor is it slottable in the power. For that matter you can't slot the slow either. The power doesn't seem to make them "wet" so they are not immobilized with just the power itself. None of the other powers in the set seem to make them wet or mention doing so (not that I can imagine why they would). Well, maybe Cryo Freeze Ray does but you wouldn't be able to tell since they're held.

 

Was this added as a joke?

 

It was not added as a joke, but Powerhouse refuses to elaborate. So far I've discovered that Trick Arrow and Traps cannot proc the 'Wet' affect, but Freezing Rain on Storm can.

[Vinceq98]

Well I have to hand it to the devs that they take feedback players give. Its just always so half ****** sometimes. This new wet mechanic is great but you really need to consider what that wet status is. This game was launched in 2004 and not one mention of that status has been in the game. Maybe show us a video showcasing how to enable WET debuff. I mean this is your game now, were all just playing it. At least give us a bone and tell us how to play a set you made,

[Shin Magmus]

There's an explanation, and I can type it, but it's just so upsetting to put into words.  The explanation is: "We realize 80% of the feedback is about this set lacking Immobilizes but we stubbornly refuse to relent and remove either the T1 ST Sleep or T3 AoE Sleep. and we already went on record saying that we wouldn't swap any powers.  So the only way you guys are getting the Immobilize that you asked for is if we shoehorn it into another power instead.  However, we can't make the Immobilize traditional or *too good* because we're adding it to other powers that we feel are already *complete*, so we must add a weaker Immobilize in the most convoluted way possible to both appease you all but not look as if we relented, or changed our minds."

 

If Liquid Nitrogen also Immob'd reliably: it would just be objectively better than Ice Slick.  I understand why developers would be wary of making such changes and why they don't want any individual power to be that strong.  The issue is the audacity to add a heretofore uniquely overcomplicated mechanic (cross-powerset flags for extra effects like Time's Delayed/Debuffs) to facilitate that Immobilize, and then not explain any details of that mechanic at all to the players, is honestly indefensible.  If someone would have at least added a small statement of intent on why they felt the need to put the Immobilize there, and tie it to this "Wet" flag, then at least we would have that information.  As it stands, we have no information, only pages of stubborn refusal.

[Rand0lk]

Found another power that enables the "wet" condition: Water Spout from Leviathan Mastery, you can check the immobilize via the frostbite-like effect. Sheesh.

Edited February 1 by Rand0lk

[Frosticus]

I genuinely don't care if it gets an aoe immob, but I have a bit different perspective than some other posters.

I don't find mobs scatter too much between the aoe confuse, knockdown patch and taunting pet. 

 

I also prefer mobs that are heavily debuffed, or confused, to be able to move (slowly). Moving mobs aren't attacking and confused mobs tend to collapse tighter. The moment you immob them they default to ranged attacks.

 

For example I much prefer earthquake+quicksand over earthquake+stone cages. I only run the latter on my dom because stone cages was a forced pick.

 

granted there is always the possibility that an energy sentinel joins your group and spams nova. Certainly I appreciate the ability to mitigate that and can relate to the frustration that causes.

 

 

 

[Shin Magmus]

7 minutes ago, Rand0lk said:

Found another power that enables the "wet" condition: Water Spout from Leviathan Mastery, you can check the immobilize via the frostbite-like effect. Sheesh.

Hey, good find.  I had a feeling that Mako Mastery powers might often all apply "wet" but wasn't going to go through the tedium of testing them all because of the principle of that work being offloaded onto us.  Waterspout is a good power in general though, and certainly it could and would make sense in **gameplay** for a build with Arse Control.  It's a bit unfortunate that it makes no sense in **aesthetics or theme** for my Natural Origin Gun/Traps character to conjure a sentient Waterspout though...

[Rand0lk]

7 minutes ago, ShinMagmus said:

Hey, good find.  I had a feeling that Mako Mastery powers might often all apply "wet" but wasn't going to go through the tedium of testing them all because of the principle of that work being offloaded onto us.  Waterspout is a good power in general though, and certainly it could and would make sense in **gameplay** for a build with Arse Control.  It's a bit unfortunate that it makes no sense in **aesthetics or theme** for my Natural Origin Gun/Traps character to conjure a sentient Waterspout though...

 

Sure is a good power...on a 180s recharge 🙄

[WindDemon21]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:46 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

As Player1 noted, we are still reviewing the set. Things are still changing. I usually prefer not to talk about future build until they land, but next build will see the return of the patch-based 45s cooldown Sleep Grenade, we are just not changing the power selection but will continue to tweak things further.

 

Edit: the current form of sleep was an experiment to add more regularly usable AoE attack for controllers, but its obviously too detrimental to the set's control.

 

That said, reminder: please post your feedback and don't argue with other posters about their feedback. This always results in arguments and next to no usable information. It takes significant amount of time to comb through these threads, and it can slow down many things when they fill up with multiple posters just repeating the same things back at each other.

To be perfectly honest. since the power damages anyway, keeping the re-proccing and still reducing the recharge to use to proc-attack, wouldn't OP the power, since not only do sleeps break super easy, but the power itself breaks the previous sleep as well. So you could keep the power as is re-proccing, and lower the recharge, and it wouldn't OP anything. It would just help make the power actually more useful (if needed can set to flag to remove previous patch when new one is created like disruption arrow does. Even with the re-proccing and debuff as we've mentioned sleeps on teams and often solo still end up being quite innocuous so them having the best of stats still would basically not OP them except in maybe some specific tf scenarios?, but I'd rather have the sleeps across the board actually be more useful and those just resist sleep more or something.

[Cyclone Jack]

23 minutes ago, Rand0lk said:

Found another power that enables the "wet" condition: Water Spout from Leviathan Mastery, you can check the immobilize via the frostbite-like effect. Sheesh.

Glad to see something affect it.  I never got anything to proc the Immobilize with the sets I tested.  I'm guessing that Ice isn't wet enough, or is too readily available, and it has to specifically be water-based.