Focused Feedback: Epic / Ancillary Power Pools

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

If they were interested in "fixing" Bonfire they would make it less of a garbage power to begin with.

So you would rather exploit a broken power than have an occasional suboptimal power in the game. Have to disagree with you there.

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

So you would rather exploit a broken power than have an occasional suboptimal power in the game. Have to disagree with you there.

 

I don't consider the current bounce rate an exploit... so... in this particular case? Yes. 

 

The ideal solution would have been to make Bonfire less of a complete disaster in the first place, but I guess this was easier. 

[Thraxen]

I was late to the bonfire party. That shit is broke as fuck.  I finally got around to making a triple fire blaster. Don’t need any shields or self rez when they all popping like popcorn. I just made my blaster like 6-8 months ago. Didn’t realize it was an exploit or whatever but makes sense as it became my opener. 

[Coyotedancer]

18 minutes ago, Thraxen said:

I was late to the bonfire party. That shit is broke as fuck.  I finally got around to making a triple fire blaster. Don’t need any shields or self rez when they all popping like popcorn. I just made my blaster like 6-8 months ago. Didn’t realize it was an exploit or whatever but makes sense as it became my opener. 

 

I've never tried it on a Blaster (Not a fan of the AT-), so I can't say anything about how it changes their game at all... But it's useful for keeping things from running off on a Mastermind. It's never felt like an exploit to me because it tends to miss at least as many things (and as often-) as it hits with them. It's fun, but far from some sure-thing. 

 

As it stands now? If the current rate on test goes through, I'll probably end up respeccing my Demons/Time MM out of it. Running a +1/x6 Council scanner, I saw two or three of the goons per spawn bounce. Once. 😅

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by Coyotedancer

[Kaika]

Found another BUG, this time in Frigid Wind: It's currently criting 100% of the time out of Hide as opposed to the 50% chance it should have

 

Honestly though, I kinda like it, gives you some reason to take it over Ball lightning in Mu for reasons other then aesthetic, but it's clearly a bug

Edited January 24 by Riot Siren

[Thraxen]

15 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

I've never tried it on a Blaster (Not a fan of the AT-), so I can't say anything about how it changes their game at all... But it's useful for keeping things from running off on a Mastermind. It's never felt like an exploit to me because it tends to miss at least as many things (and as often-) as it hits with them. It's fun, but far from some sure-thing. 

 

As it stands now? If the current rate on test goes through, I'll probably end up respeccing my Demons/Time MM out of it. Running a +1/x6 Council scanner, I saw two or three of the goons per spawn bounce. Once. 😅

 

 

 

only mm I play, and that is barely at all, is demons time. Should be fine without it. 

[Coyotedancer]

Just now, Thraxen said:

only mm I play, and that is barely at all, is demons time. Should be fine without it. 

 

 

Yep... We'll have more runaways if that Council mission was anything to judge by, but it's not going to break much at the end of the day. I'll miss the entertainment factor of it, though.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements

 

This change impacts controller and dominator fire control, making the power basically useless as a 'control'.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Electricity Mastery > Chain Fences (Sentinel) - Recharge increased from 16s to 20s, Endurance cost lowered from 19.5 to 12.74

 

Incorrect recharge times quoted, current base recharge time is 8 seconds on live, also the new recharge time on beta is not 20 seconds as listed in these patch notes

The following unlisted changes also took place.

• Range reduced
• Area of effect reduced
• Number of targets hit reduced
• Damage reduced

[FupDup]

18 minutes ago, Elizabeth Ashlee said:

 

Incorrect recharge times quoted, current base recharge time is 8 seconds on live, also the new recharge time on beta is not 20 seconds as listed in these patch notes

The following unlisted changes also took place.

• Range reduced
• Area of effect reduced
• Number of targets hit reduced
• Damage reduced

The patch notes are missing some context. In closed beta, the recharge on all the Sentinel epic immobs were set to 20 seconds in order to "normalize" things with the penalties that the devs decided to give epic pool powers. There was some complaining by a few people (at 20s it took too long to stack the immob magnitude to lock down high rank enemies) that got it bumped down to 16 seconds at the cost of those other attributes. Some of that stuff was also to keep the powers in-line with other penalties that Sentinels have to deal with in their base kit (target caps, range). 

 

Basically the patch notes here are missing an in-between mini-patch from closed beta where these things got changed. 

Edited January 24 by FupDup

[Flying Code Monkey]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

So you would rather exploit a broken power than have an occasional suboptimal power in the game. Have to disagree with you there.

 

Bonfire was born a trash power.  The ability to convert KB to KD made it usable.  Originally, it actually was too good (everything in the area bounced 100% of the time).  Then it got tuned, and has been fine since.  It's still fine now, and certainly not in need of change for some imagined righteous purpose.

[Thraxen]

I'm unsure that if you're a scrapper, and you're taking an APP, there is a reason NOT to take psi now.  Has a ranged attack, which is a snipe, and gets an endurance tool passive that takes both good procs.  That is ignoring the other 3 powers from psi.  Only reason against it is RP/theme reasons.  I'll still keep shadow meld on my vamp toon, but he only has it for thematic reasons.  

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

1 hour ago, FupDup said:

The patch notes are missing some context. In closed beta, the recharge on all the Sentinel epic immobs were set to 20 seconds in order to "normalize" things with the penalties that the devs decided to give epic pool powers. There was some complaining by a few people (at 20s it took too long to stack the immob magnitude to lock down high rank enemies) that got it bumped down to 16 seconds at the cost of those other attributes. Some of that stuff was also to keep the powers in-line with other penalties that Sentinels have to deal with in their base kit (target caps, range). 

 

Basically the patch notes here are missing an in-between mini-patch from closed beta where these things got changed. 

 

At least the power will remain good for very specific set bonus slotting. 🤷‍♀️

[Lazer_Bear]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:23 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Although there is merit on this, keep in mind first that the version of Soul Drain Dark Mastery would get is still the exact one that Soul Mastery gets in this patch, not the 120s version.

 

That aside, we opted to implement Spirt Drain on the Dark Mastery pool because its already receiving some changes that are considered negative by some players. When we do changes like these, its always preferable to keep the disruption to a single power, minimizing negative impact on existing character builds. If we proceed as now, only users of Dark Mastery's Soul Drain will have to adapt to the change. If we adopt this request, users of Dark Mastery will have to adapt to a 240s cooldown and smaller radius, while Soul Mastery users would have to adapt to the ranged power. 

 

Hopefully this sheds some light on how we decided to change the Dark Mastery one and not the Soul Mastery version. 

Understand y'all's logic.

I still agree with a possible change to melee/ranged theming in the pools. This gives players the choice to grab what suits the playstyle of the character they've made.

Yes, it'll affect 2 powers, not one... but, I think it'd play out better in the end.

[EmperorSteele]

Since we're making changes to APPs, I don't suppose the Psi-Nexus pet could replace World of Confusion in Controller Psi Mastery?

 

Asking for my otherwise-petless Mind Controller.

 

(Yeah yeah, I already know the answer is "no" ;_; )

 

Also not a huge fan of the Psinado changes, but in practice it's not too bad (the area nerf would be a problem, but TK solves that for me now so it evens out).

[The Chairman]

What is the new intended KD rate for Bonfire (Blaster Epic) when the KB->KD IO is slotted? I just ran a Level 49 F3 Blaster through a PI radio against CoT at +0x8. I used Bonfire as my opener every other spawn (as I normally do), and I didn't see a single mob bounce. They either stood there eating the DoT or ran.

Edited January 24 by The Chairman
Forgot to include Notoriety setting

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, The Chairman said:

What is the new intended KD rate for Bonfire (Blaster Epic) when the KB->KD IO is slotted? I just ran a Level 49 F3 Blaster through a PI radio against CoT. I used Bonfire as my opener every other spawn (as I normally do), and I didn't see a single mob bounce. They either stood there eating the DoT or ran.

 

For what it's worth, with my MM I *did* see a few of the Council guys bounce in each spawn group I dropped Bonfire on (I was running at x6, so got a fair few potential targets per group-), but it was never more than two or three, and I never noticed anyone bounce twice. I'd toss the power out there, a couple would go flopping, and then the patch might as well not have been active as far as KD was concerned... So, it may be both that the chance of KD for any particular thing per tick is low *and* the tick is now so slow that everything is just more likely to die before it has another chance of getting hit and landing on its butt?

 

Either way, it was basically useless as a way to help mitigate runaways... Which was the entire reason I had it on a Mastermind to begin with. 

[The Chairman]

1 minute ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

For what it's worth, with my MM I *did* see a few of the Council guys bounce in each spawn group I dropped Bonfire on (I was running at x6, so got a fair few potential targets per group-), but it was never more than two or three, and I never noticed anyone bounce twice. I'd toss the power out there, a couple would go flopping, and then the patch might as well not have been active as far as KD was concerned... So, it may be both that the chance of KD for any particular thing per tick is low *and* the tick is now so slow that everything is just more likely to die before it has another chance of getting hit and landing on its butt?

 

Either way, it was basically useless as a way to help mitigate runaways... Which was the entire reason I had it on a Mastermind to begin with. 

 

It's entirely possible that I simply didn't see it, but I agree with the assessment that the power is no longer useful as a way to mitigate runaways. I also used it to mitigate incoming damage since, as a F3 Blaster, I spend a lot of time in melee.

 

My thought is that if the intention is to lower but not effectively remove the KD, the change overshot the target.

[WindDemon21]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

New Psionic Mastery Epic pool for Scrappers and Stalkers:

• Mental Blast (Ranged, DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge)
• Psionic Lance (Sniper, DMG(Psionic), Target -Recharge)
• Psychic Scream (Ranged (Cone), DMG(Psionic), Foe -Recharge)
• Harmonic Mind (Auto: Self, +Recovery, Endurance Discount)
• Psionic Nexus (Summon Psionic Nexus: Ranged DMG(Psionic))

Please move change psychic scream to psionic tornado so, you know, as a melee AT, you can actually use it in melee.

 

Also Please fix the recharge on controller (and assuming these new epics), 40 seconds is god awful from what it was before, that little bump in damage IS the offset to losing the radius, it's not big enough to DOUBLE the recharge to 40 seconds...

 

Live: beta

[SeraphimKensai]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Dark Mastery > Spirit Drain (replaces Soul Drain)

This power replaces Soul Drain from the Dark Mastery epic pool (Defenders, Corruptors). Soul Drain had ignored the standard epic cooldown penalties while also obtaining a larger than standard radius, making it a superior power to even the AT-specific version. Instead of applying the appropriate penalties (which would have made it a 240s cooldown and 10' radius power), we have taken this opportunity to rebalance it into a unique power (separating itself from Soul Mastery which also has the Soul Drain power) that trades some of its former potency for increased utility.

 

Spirit Drain is a 60' ranged attack that can hit up to 5 targets within a 15' radius. Unlike Soul Drain, these targets can be alive or defeated. The cooldown remains 120s, however the buff duration will now be 15s instead of 30s

Personally I rather liked building for Perma Soul Drain. I am alright with it being a targeted AoE, but I wish the buff duration would remain at 30 seconds.

 

As means to be fair I'd support soul mastery's soul drain getting its recharge changed to 120 and giving Dark Melee users a 90 second base recharge to differentiate between primary/secondary and epic/app.

 

[Random Robot]

Would it be possible to have Superior Conditioning added as an optional alternative to Conserve Power for Energy Mastery on Tankers and Scrappers and the reverse added for Brutes and Stalkers?

[WindDemon21]

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Soul Consumption (PBAoE DMG(Negative), Self +HP, +End)

Also, one minute duration and TEN MINUTE recharge on this!??? This is absolutely insane for a tier 5 epic power that just procs some small heal and end, and needs to be used on the mobs as well. This isn't a pool power, it's a tier 5 epic power which includes lots of power investment, slotting, and reaching at least level 44. It should be a lot more usable than basically conserve power with some heal.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic Immobilization Attacks

Instead of Epic Immobilization attacks having their standard 2.5x cooldown penalty for soft mez, all these attacks will now have the same 2.0x cooldown penalty as regular attacks. To compensate, damage and endurance costs are lowered. Typically, this change will look like:

• Single Target Attacks
  • Recharge lowered form 10s to 8s
  • DoT ticks lowered from 0.20 scale to 0.1724 scale
  • End cost lowered from 9.75 to 8.405
• AoE Attacks
  • Recharge lowered from 20s to 16s
  • DoT ticks lowered from 0.10 scale to 0.0837 scale
  • End cost lowered from 12.74 to 10.751

Pretty sure nobody wanted this change as it just ruins the proc-ability for these powers which, the ST immob at least, was already pretty much pure trash.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Dark Mastery > Spirit Drain (replaces Soul Drain)

This power replaces Soul Drain from the Dark Mastery epic pool (Defenders, Corruptors). Soul Drain had ignored the standard epic cooldown penalties while also obtaining a larger than standard radius, making it a superior power to even the AT-specific version. Instead of applying the appropriate penalties (which would have made it a 240s cooldown and 10' radius power), we have taken this opportunity to rebalance it into a unique power (separating itself from Soul Mastery which also has the Soul Drain power) that trades some of its former potency for increased utility.

 

Spirit Drain is a 60' ranged attack that can hit up to 5 targets within a 15' radius. Unlike Soul Drain, these targets can be alive or defeated. The cooldown remains 120s, however the buff duration will now be 15s instead of 30s. This power is still quite potent as it can do the same amount of self-buff as Build Up, while having a longer duration, can be used as an attack from distance, and have a very minor cooldown penalty

 

Summary of details:

• 120s cooldown, 2.37s cast time
• 60 foot range
• 4.8 scale damage buff from 1 target, 8.0 scale damage buff from 5 targets
• 1.2 scale to-hit buff from 1 target, 2.0 scale to-hit buff from 5 targets
• 0.40 scale damage (Negative Energy)

If this is the route the power is going to go I'd rather it have even a 60s rech to be more usable, even if that meant the damage bonus was reduced some more. or more-so even less boost but make it a full aoe. Like 45s recharge, 16 targets, standard damage, 15s duration, lower damage boost.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Earth Mastery > Hurl Boulder (Controller) - Range increased from 40ft to 80ft, Recharge increased from 10s to 16s, Cast Time reduced from 2.5s to 2.0s, endurance cost increased from 11.7 to 18.98

In no world, does this power need the endurance increased to NINTEEN, for a single target attack. Especially (or even if it was) with the damage not being increased either.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Earth Mastery > Salt Crystals: Sleep scale reduced from 20 to 10, no longer can overpower.

Cause sleep was... overpowered so it needed halved...?.............. At least halve the rech then.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Electricity Mastery > Static Discharge (Blaster/Mastermind) - Recharge increased from 12s to 24s, end cost increased from 14.82 to 27.3, damage increased from scale 0.91 to scale 0.958

Sweet jesus again with the end costs!?? 27.3 end for a damage cone? This is just madness. Who is making the decision on these seriously?? Adjusting the damage/rech, fine, but the power already had too big of an end cost before. An epic aoe cone, might be more fair increasing the end cost to about 18, but 27.3? Seriously..

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements

No, absolutely not. Just no.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Epic > Psionic Mastery > Psionic Tornado (Controller/Dominator) - Cast Time reduced from 2.37s to 1.83s, radius decreased from 20ft to 15ft, DoT reduced from scale 5 ticks of 0.175 damage over to 4.1s to 3 ticks of 0.201 damage over 2.1s

Um, excuse you, don't forget to mention the BIGGEST part of this change is that the recharge DOUBLED from 20s to 40 seconds. Absolute insanity.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Curator said:

Patron > Leviathan Mastery > Arctic Breath (Brute/Tanker) - Fixed a bug where the knockdown would only check once on the initial tick instead of every tick

Don't forget to fix the power to accept knockback enhancements and sets as well.

 

Also, conserve power on scrap/tanks, can we please get this swapped for the more consistent superior conditioning and have that bumped up a little. 5 max end is extremely impotent. Even 10 max end is since the power is only there for helping endurance. Something like 10 max end and 10% global end reduction would be more appropriate or maybe 5 max end, 10% reduction, 10% -recovery resistance?

[WindDemon21]

11 minutes ago, kidsnowflake said:

Would it be possible to have Superior Conditioning added as an optional alternative to Conserve Power for Energy Mastery on Tankers and Scrappers and the reverse added for Brutes and Stalkers?

Yes! Just suggested that myself, in addition to bumping it up a little, little end reduction/drain resistance. But this has been a bane annoyance for the epic on tank/scraps forever. They should as suggested in the post just above, get rid of cp and just make SC have the end reduction as well. The power is still a lot better cause it's more consistent and you can put the pshifter proc in it to help more, but just 5 max end is still god awful and needs bumped a little.

[SwitchFade]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:30 PM, tealzaire said:

"Epic > Fire Mastery > Bonfire (Blaster/Mastermind) - Knockdown rate has been reduced while using KB2KD enhancements"

 

Nooooo!

Agreed.

 

Changed from what to what, exactly, by the way?

 

And, is bonfire changed just for epic? Not changed for primary/secondaries that have this power natively, RIGHT?

[SwitchFade]

Psionic tornado - at 40s I just won't take this one now.

 

Hurl boulder - at this end cost I will remove this from tray and it's a mule/or I won't take it.

 

Bonfire - if the proc rate is noticably lower, the one blaster I have this on will likely drop the power and get shelved. If this change is on all versions ... Well, that's a large enough issue that I would shelved more toons.

 

Salt crystals - I skip this on all versions for one reason, this one power is nearly useless as is. A higher cost of use with less benefit doesn't change that, I'll still skip it. I would recommend fixing sleep as a theme. The only version worth taking in group settings is the one that pulses.