Clear Speed Leaderboards

[Koopak]

7 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Here is what I hope is a constructive suggestion for a division, and potentially lead to several other divisions.

 

Right next to the Pylons that most people use*, stand Apex and Tin Mage.  If you talk to them to start a TF, they give you a series of options to add challenge and difficulty.  Under Power Limits there is a selection for "No Temporary Powers," which would remove all the Amplifiers, Wisp pets, Signature Summons and, even a fan favorite, Envenomed Daggers.  However, accolade powers are still active.  So you have your passive health and endurance buffs as well as access to Geas and the others.  I would go one further and click on the dot for "Inspirations cannot be used" to make it more like the old RWZ scrapper challenge from the live forums.

 

I think those two settings would give you a fairly accurate reading of the DPS of the AT's power sets and build.  You could take it further if you wanted to eliminate Incarnate powers or whatever.  The problem lies in that you can only click one choice inside the radial box.  So if you choose "No Temps" you cannot also choose "No Incarnates."  However the list below the box are not mutually exclusive, so you could remove inspirations, be debuffed, buff enemies, and remove all enhancement effects all at the same time.  Other than perhaps a comparison of attack sets without regard to build, I can't see why anyone would subject himself or herself to those other ones.

 

The best part is that this is super easy to do and monitor.  You have people start the video at the TF selection box to show the choices, or a screen shot with the same.  The pylon is right there waiting for you to pummel.

 

I will contribute 1 billion inf towards the bounty reward for this division.  If you like these rules and wish to contribute, say so.

 

*Except for weirdos like Linea 😜

So this is an excellent tool for both Divisions 3 and 5. 3 matches the currently displayed settings, 5 would be setting this to no incarnates and simply not using temps, but doesnt solve for Aura of Mot and its ilk. Division 3 would be the no temp powers setting and would be fine.

Would you be happy with posting the bounty under one of those? if so which one?

[Americas Angel]

Very late to the party on this. Saw you asked for feedback, had a few thoughts.

 

I would suggest running only two divisions, to reflect the actual ingame rulesets:

• Division 1 = Same restrictions as 4*
• Division 2 = Anything goes except beta QA powers.

(Anything other than these two divisions feel a little too "house rules" for me. A lot of the restrictions in the current divisions don't exist ingame.)

 

Players would create a single build for one of the above two divisions, and then:

• Run Ston's AE mission.
• Fight a pylon.

And then add the Ston AE clear time to the pylon time for their overall time.

 

The idea of running the same build through each would be to create a more rounded build. Which would hopefully closer represent how people play the game.

 

Fun thread btw. Has been interesting reading through it. 

Edited June 4 by Americas Angel

[Bionic_Flea]

10 hours ago, Koopak said:

Would you be happy with posting the bounty under one of those? if so which one?

 

Definite no for Division 5 ("No temps or incarnates that provide anything but defense, resistance and hp, this includes no endurance tools ") as the TF settings can't do both no Temp Powers and No Inspirations.  Besides, in my mind, getting incarnates is integral to the game.  You can think of it as an extra 10-20 levels after 50 where you power up by gaining new abilities and slotting them to make them stronger.

 

If Division 3 ("Legacy pylon rules, all temps that effect damage output are banned, recovery temps are banned. Judgment is banned.") was No temps, No inspirations as set by the TF settings I would agree.  It's OK if we disagree.  But to me, the ease of making sure you eliminate all temps and inspirations via the TF settings is the big draw to me AND that it closely matches 4* and Master settings.

[Koopak]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Definite no for Division 5 ("No temps or incarnates that provide anything but defense, resistance and hp, this includes no endurance tools ") as the TF settings can't do both no Temp Powers and No Inspirations.  Besides, in my mind, getting incarnates is integral to the game.  You can think of it as an extra 10-20 levels after 50 where you power up by gaining new abilities and slotting them to make them stronger.

 

If Division 3 ("Legacy pylon rules, all temps that effect damage output are banned, recovery temps are banned. Judgment is banned.") was No temps, No inspirations as set by the TF settings I would agree.  It's OK if we disagree.  But to me, the ease of making sure you eliminate all temps and inspirations via the TF settings is the big draw to me AND that it closely matches 4* and Master settings.

It occurs to me that I am brain dead. That's literally division 4. If the goal is to mirror 4star that's exactly what the division standard is and those TF settings mirror

[Koopak]

11 hours ago, Americas Angel said:

Very late to the party on this. Saw you asked for feedback, had a few thoughts.

 

I would suggest running only two divisions, to reflect the actual ingame rulesets:

• Division 1 = Same restrictions as 4*
• Division 2 = Anything goes except beta QA powers.

(Anything other than these two divisions feel a little too "house rules" for me. A lot of the restrictions in the current divisions don't exist ingame.)

 

Players would create a single build for one of the above two divisions, and then:

• Run Ston's AE mission.
• Fight a pylon.

And then add the Ston AE clear time to the pylon time for their overall time.

 

The idea of running the same build through each would be to create a more rounded build. Which would hopefully closer represent how people play the game.

 

Fun thread btw. Has been interesting reading through it. 

 

I need to try out said AE and out some thought into it but I wouldn't be completely opposed. I'd wanna keep current divisions 0, 1, 4, and 5 at minimum. 0 and 1 are differing flavors of anything goes and 5 is what I got when asking if any rule set would be something the dev team would like to see

 

2, 3, and 6 are while somewhat interesting are mostly there to address many people's concerns and opinions on what is acceptable.

Edited June 4 by Koopak

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Koopak said:

It occurs to me that I am brain dead.

 

Confucius said, "Do not give your enemies ammunition.  You might not live to regret it."*

 

Sounds like Division 4 is the closest match.  But again, to me, the TF settings are integral to guarantee everyone is on relatively equal footing.

 

*Confucius didn't say that.  I totally made it up.

[Koopak]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Confucius said, "Do not give your enemies ammunition.  You might not live to regret it."*

 

Sounds like Division 4 is the closest match.  But again, to me, the TF settings are integral to guarantee everyone is on relatively equal footing.

 

*Confucius didn't say that.  I totally made it up.

We can add that as a requirement to the bounty and just list the times under D4 if that sounds good?

[ScarySai]

The lore/temp/signature pets just muddy any useful data you can really gleam from the pylon benchmark, that's why that while lores weren't banned from the old thread, nobody really used them.

 

Because how are you going to get anything useful out of taking your pistol to the shooting range to try it out, but the death star is directly behind you, shooting the same thing you are?

 

Secondly, the minute you try to use a pylon for anything but benchmarking basic survival (this one doesn't even shoot back.) and having a very basic grasp of AV kill speed, it loses a ton of merit.

 

 

[Koopak]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:37 PM, Koopak said:

So now that I'm back at my PC finally. I want to follow up a bit. I am a little frustrated that there was little to no response when i specifically asked for feedback on the divisions themselves, but Ill take having it now.

I think its important to recognize that we aren't all going to agree on what a singular good rule set is. What usually happens is what little consensus is reached is essentially the lowest common denominator. More people are willing to accept a rule set that bans things not directly tied to their character's express build than are not so the end result is essentially around where the Scrapper thread landed, and I'm not oblivious to the reasons why.

The thing is, I don't agree with that standard being universal. There are lot of good arguments for it, there are also arguments I can, and have made in the past in the opposite. Rather than retreading them or arguing points I haven't before in this thread, I want to try and find a better solution here, a compromise. I value data in essentially every Division that currently exists, and have plans to collect for each of them, and yes that will be a long ass process. I can't simply generate the data by doing runs myself exclusively either. You may have noticed I haven't posted a single entry since before the bounties started in earnest with the exception of having gotten really caught up in optimizing the Sentinel run. Thus my goal has been to outsource the project, and since, on average, getting people to run these tests has always been a chore, an incentive became the only way.

While I view this as a collaborative project, on some level it is me who is doing the data tabulation and management, putting up the prize money, and promoting the project. I think it is only fair that if there are tests I'd like to explore more than some or even most of the community, that I do so. However as I said I see this as a collaborative project, so let me run though some options that have come to mind and my stance on them.

Things I am 100% willing to do right now even if I don't personally like them:

• create divisions
• modify the way data is presented to hide disliked divisions from casual perusal
• mix up the divisions for future bounties rather than focus on populating just one at a time
• Increase or decrease bounty windows
• Change explanation or formatting of the OP to help with parsing the information.
• Mix in other challenge types sooner than planned.
• Change the short list leader board in the OP itself to not include certain divisions.
• Help host literally anyone else's bounties.

Thing I am able to potentially be convinced on:

• removing a division from the list if I can be convinced of a good enough argument for it (note Division 1 is not going to be an easy sell as you all have already seen)
• Add a new challenge type (if i see value and people show interest)
• increase or decrease bounty prize pools (with the understanding it may effect post rates)
• mix in bounties targeting specific sets sooner than planed

Things I am not willing to budge on:

• Removing existing entries unless removing the division as a whole (Even then id like to preserve the runs in a separate sheet.)
• Remove divisions entirely or cut them down to less than 4-5 as I see at minimum that many categories that have significant value.

So its been a few days and I haven't received a lot of feedback on my offered options to try and make more people happy here. I'd really appreciate some give and take on this topic so that we can find a solution that works best rather than just expecting one side to cave to the other.

[Glacier Peak]

On 4/13/2024 at 6:36 PM, Glacier Peak said:

As of: 15 April 2024

 

Run Type: Pylon Time
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary Powerset: Ice Blast
Secondary Powerset: Cold Domination
Time in seconds: 98 seconds with Offensive Amplifier, 97 seconds without Offensive Amplifier.

Burst: Sustained
Hybrid: Yes
Number of Runs: 5
Version: 3
Video Link: N/A
Notes: Ice Elemental pet from Ice Mastery Epic Pool Powerset was used. Offensive Amplifier was used on 98 second run - accuracy is atrocious and pet still wandering to other Pylon mid-fight, could've been another 5-7 seconds better.
Build: Corruptor (Ice Blast - Cold Domination) - Glacier Peak.mbd

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Updated run: I can't tell what division this lands in, but I used Offensive Amp, base temp +recharge power, Geas, and Lore pets. 

 

Run Type: Pylon Time
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary Powerset: Ice Blast
Secondary Powerset: Cold Domination
Time in seconds: 64 seconds with Offensive Amplifier, Geas, Lores (Carnival Radial T4)

Burst: Yes
Hybrid: Yes
Number of Runs: 1
Version: 4
Video Link: N/A
Notes: None
Build: Corruptor (Ice Blast - Cold Domination) - Glacier Peak.mbd

 

[Koopak]

Bounty Posted!

Prize: 1 billion influence
Poster: @Bionic_Flea

Task:
Post the best pylon/dummy time under Division 4 + additional rules of any player for the month of June. Post your results here: Clear Speed Leaderboards

 

Division 4 Rules:

Spoiler

Only powers allowed under 4 star Advanced Difficulty settings are permitted. Lore Incarnate powers are banned.

 

Additional Rules:

Spoiler

Submissions must provide proof of their use of the TF contacts near the pylon, either Apex or Tinmage, showing the following configuration was used to ensure no temp powers to inspirations could have been used.

Start Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, June 7st 2024 See in your timezone here!
End Date/Time: 00:00 UTC, July 7st 2024 See in your timezone here!
(In the links look in the non bold text with your location in it, if anyone has a better translation method, let me know.)

 

• Runs on the test server are valid provided they do not make use of any changes currently being tested, or the changes used are promoted to live.

Edited June 8 by Koopak

[Bionic_Flea]

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

[Videra]

1 minute ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

 

Nah.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 minutes ago, Videra said:

Nah.

 

Boo!

[ScarySai]

5 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

 

After the crab one I'll gladly do some no cheese crab pylons.

 

If you were speaking more broadly, I actually was planning to make my own thread for this, as I am... "disatisfied" with this one.

[Laucianna]

10 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

I did one run with Geas and one without as I am not sure if it would be accepted 😄 Build is the same as posted before

No Geas - 1:02

Geas - 0:50

 

[Bionic_Flea]

Looks good, EXCEPT, you choose no inspirations but forgot no temps on both runs.  It didn't seem like you used any, except its hard to tell with changeling and you have one grey icon on your power bar that I'm not sure what it is.

 

[Ratch_]

34 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

Already have a bunch of those runs in here

[AmrasNotHere]

48 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

 

I wouldn't mind doing one, any specific one you'd be interested in? 

[arcane]

50 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I challenge any and all not just to run a no temps, no inspiration pylon, but to either add to the bounty or set your own bounty with your rules!

 

I especially challenge:

@ScarySai @Shin Magmus @Americas Angel @Laucianna @AmrasNotHere @Beldath @Linea @Videra @Frosticus @Glacier Peak @arcane @Ratch_ @Ston

 

TAKE MY MONEY!

 

I haven’t had any characters built for pylon killing in a long time now (basically since 4* ITF came out and replaced the Ageless meta with the Barrier meta), but you’ll be the first to know if I get back into it. Or I can refer you to some of my entries in the Pylon Damage thread Ratch just linked.

[Laucianna]

29 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Looks good, EXCEPT, you choose no inspirations but forgot no temps on both runs.  It didn't seem like you used any, except its hard to tell with changeling and you have one grey icon on your power bar that I'm not sure what it is.

 

That might be a better picture to show in the rules as I didn't see that other bit XD But yeah no temps were used but if you want me to re-record I can do that ❤️

[VoidSpawn]

How, precisely, do we import the posted builds on the Clear Speed Leaderboards GoogleDoc into the new Mids? It's doing its very best to defy my feeble efforts. 

[Shin Magmus]

Hey, I think the idea of using TF settings to disable Temps and Insps is very forward-thinking to prevent cheese and promote fairness of the competition.

[Glacier Peak]

@Bionic_Flea @Koopak

 

Edit: Missed the TF screenshot, reran see below:

 

102 seconds - Glacier Peak Ice Blast / Cold Domination Corruptor

 

Division Four: Four-Star Challenge, no temps, and Inspiration Disabled. No Lore summons. I used Geas, Hybrid, and Judgement. I could probably benefit from using Destiny...

 

Build: V3_Corruptor (Ice Blast - Cold Domination) - Glacier Peak.mbd

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by Glacier Peak

[Koopak]

3 hours ago, VoidSpawn said:

How, precisely, do we import the posted builds on the Clear Speed Leaderboards GoogleDoc into the new Mids? It's doing its very best to defy my feeble efforts. 

There appears to be a bug in the current version of mids that keeps you from pasting data chunks into mids. I've reported the issue already, and it will be fixed in the next update.

In the mean time if you have a build you want, dm me and ill happily pull it from archives and send you the file.

Edited June 8 by Koopak