Which is the tankiest tank in tank town (with caveats)?

[sutasafaia]

With caveats, of course, because why would it be easy? I am fairly new to the server so a decked out IO build is very far off in the future, so this would be more focused on basic SO/IO builds. Plus, due to disability mentioned in my other topic, the armor sets are going to be more limited.

 

After far too much hunting around through the various AT's on the forum, reading posts, talking in discord, hunting through reddit, and trying to figure out exactly what I want to play while keeping it as simple as possible for my disabled butt, I think I've finally settled on Tanker for sure. I've already been messing with a few of them (only up to level 10-18 so far) just to make sure I enjoy them, but I've sort of hit a wall on figuring out exactly what I want to play now. I also tried a couple sentinels because those were recommended to me, and while I very much enjoyed their version of the armor powers (especially the absorb on inv) I still think I like tankers better. Kinda saw that coming though, I've always had a thing for tank classes.

 

There are four armor sets that seem to be the easiest to play and that I am considering (fewer clicks are a huge preference for me): Inv, Stone, WP, and SR. I'm honestly not all that interested in WP but it's still listed for fairness for the sheer ease of use. I've tried sticking them all in Mids and going bare bones SO's with them but the reality is that I don't have enough experience with level 50 or post-50 to have any idea how they would really function (the only character I got to 50 on live was a mastermind, had far too much altitis to ever accomplish it again). Obviously I can see each armor set has X amount of def, or res, or regen etc. but I don't really know what that means for overall toughness with how the various defensive layers combine, if that makes sense. I especially have no real experience with planning anything remotely resembling an IO plan so that makes it even harder. I even have costumes planned for all three so I can't use not having a character concept against any of them. It seems like there's some overlap with stone and inv but they're still plenty different as well, and of course SR is it's own beast.

 

Of course this doesn't even touch secondary choices but at least I have a couple ideas for them. I have to ask though, because it was mentioned to me and it sounded funny. Is it viable in any way to play elec melee and shove as many healing procs as possible into it? It seems that basically every attack can use it. Chances are pretty good I'll end up with martial arts in the end anyway (love that def buff) but I am very curious about the health sustain possibility. I know dark melee is also considered good but I can't for the life of me figure out a way to color it that makes me actually like how it looks. And of course I am a fan of claws because claws because they are just fun.

 

As for why I'm so focused on being tanky...I mess up. A lot. Hands don't work right, need a lot of room for error. I suppose just going straight granite would be a super safe option but 1: Need to make it that far and 2: To my understanding it would be an absolutely tedious way to play the game. So if stone does feel like the best set I'll just hold that in my back pocket as an emergency button which I will likely be too slow to hit anyway 😛

 

Sorry for rambling again. 

 

Is it obvious I have decision paralysis? I've bounced between characters so much I am convinced level 20 does not exist.

Edited January 15 by sutasafaia

[Psyonico]

The healing proc on electric melee is something I'm trying out myself with shield as a primary.  Mine's only level 30 but I've got the proc in every attack that will take it.  If nothing else, it's amusing.

 

Of the 4 sets, on SOs/common IOs only, I'd probably pick Stone or SR.

 

SR can soft cap to melee/ranged/AoE defense with just common IOs and weave.  Stone is a bit more of a mixed bag, but if you start to go down, you can just hit granite armor to keep yourself standing.

[Onlyasandwich]

If you want easiest, hard to go wrong with sr. Simplest to build, functionally immortal in most content. Sr leaves you a ton of room to more flexibly slot your secondary. Ideal for proccy builds. 

 

Stone and invuln have more overall potential. You can softcap defenses, and have healthy resists to build off. I find non granite stone to be a better balance, as it handles psi well enough without io support, and it has a few offensive bonuses (brimstone proc, recharge bonus).

[StriderIV]

4 hours ago, Psyonico said:

The healing proc on electric melee is something I'm trying out myself with shield as a primary.  Mine's only level 30 but I've got the proc in every attack that will take it.  If nothing else, it's amusing.

 

Of the 4 sets, on SOs/common IOs only, I'd probably pick Stone or SR.

 

SR can soft cap to melee/ranged/AoE defense with just common IOs and weave.  Stone is a bit more of a mixed bag, but if you start to go down, you can just hit granite armor to keep yourself standing.

My first 50 coming back to HC was a Shield/Elec Melee Tanker. Still one of the most “fun per clicks” toon I’ve played in the game. Haven’t tried the heal procs though, I should look into that.

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, sutasafaia said:

With caveats, of course, because why would it be easy? I am fairly new to the server so a decked out IO build is very far off in the future, so this would be more focused on basic SO/IO builds. Plus, due to disability mentioned in my other topic, the armor sets are going to be more limited.

 

After far too much hunting around through the various AT's on the forum, reading posts, talking in discord, hunting through reddit, and trying to figure out exactly what I want to play while keeping it as simple as possible for my disabled butt, I think I've finally settled on Tanker for sure. I've already been messing with a few of them (only up to level 10-18 so far) just to make sure I enjoy them, but I've sort of hit a wall on figuring out exactly what I want to play now. I also tried a couple sentinels because those were recommended to me, and while I very much enjoyed their version of the armor powers (especially the absorb on inv) I still think I like tankers better. Kinda saw that coming though, I've always had a thing for tank classes.

 

There are four armor sets that seem to be the easiest to play and that I am considering (fewer clicks are a huge preference for me): Inv, Stone, WP, and SR. I'm honestly not all that interested in WP but it's still listed for fairness for the sheer ease of use. I've tried sticking them all in Mids and going bare bones SO's with them but the reality is that I don't have enough experience with level 50 or post-50 to have any idea how they would really function (the only character I got to 50 on live was a mastermind, had far too much altitis to ever accomplish it again). Obviously I can see each armor set has X amount of def, or res, or regen etc. but I don't really know what that means for overall toughness with how the various defensive layers combine, if that makes sense. I especially have no real experience with planning anything remotely resembling an IO plan so that makes it even harder. I even have costumes planned for all three so I can't use not having a character concept against any of them. It seems like there's some overlap with stone and inv but they're still plenty different as well, and of course SR is it's own beast.

 

Of course this doesn't even touch secondary choices but at least I have a couple ideas for them. I have to ask though, because it was mentioned to me and it sounded funny. Is it viable in any way to play elec melee and shove as many healing procs as possible into it? It seems that basically every attack can use it. Chances are pretty good I'll end up with martial arts in the end anyway (love that def buff) but I am very curious about the health sustain possibility. I know dark melee is also considered good but I can't for the life of me figure out a way to color it that makes me actually like how it looks. And of course I am a fan of claws because claws because they are just fun.

 

As for why I'm so focused on being tanky...I mess up. A lot. Hands don't work right, need a lot of room for error. I suppose just going straight granite would be a super safe option but 1: Need to make it that far and 2: To my understanding it would be an absolutely tedious way to play the game. So if stone does feel like the best set I'll just hold that in my back pocket as an emergency button which I will likely be too slow to hit anyway 😛

 

Sorry for rambling again. 

 

Is it obvious I have decision paralysis? I've bounced between characters so much I am convinced level 20 does not exist.

If not THE MOST it is in contention.  A Hyperstrike MO Durable Invulnerable Tank build.  Heck, he might even post here with the build if you give it a day and mention the melee set.  Or just poke around  the forums.  ANY Hyperstrike Invul build will suit your needs, including Brute ones.  His MO Durable BRUTE and TANK builds are just abusive unless you have a need for certain content.  I personally think pairing Invulnerable with Dark Melee makes it significantly tougher (to hit debuffs, combat heal from Dark)  

 

Honestly with normal content and a decent build anything Brute or Tank (avoid "squishy" armors like Fire or nuanced ones like Dark) will suit you quite well.  Heavy melee is very stable in CoH.  

 

But if you want to jump into "Not going to ever fall" look at Hyperstrike's work.

Edited January 15 by Snarky

[Mezmera]

I'd have to agree on SR being the easiest out of the box to kit and use effectively.  Invuln would be stronger but you have to tinker with it through IOs and such.  As far as assaults I'd give Street Justice a look, it does good damage and its pbaoe being larger now gives it decent aoe potential with high ST damage.  That t9 attack you can slot a winter entomb absorb proc into it that'll always fire for an absorb shield of 450+ (which is basically a heal).  StJ is also pretty fun and fluid and quite nasty looking.  My old StJ/SR stalker played quite fun.  

Edited January 15 by Mezmera

[sutasafaia]

Thanks for the advice, will likely end up as SR at this point. Just need to decide on a secondary. If I ever actually get to 50 and am able to farm up some influence I can see about trying out another set like stone or inv. Honestly a bit nervous about cascading defense failure, it's basically all you ever hear about when you mention SR, but it's not like people haven't worked around it already. Also wish there was a melee version of the pistol powerset 😛

 

I had almost been tempted to try out DP/SR on a sentinel as well, despite my current heavy leaning towards a tanker, but it seems like the sentinel would be squishy for a great deal longer due to SR being secondary instead of primary and I can easily see myself getting super frustrated. Plus harder to soft cap, so squishier longer still compared to tanker. Really wish tanker had the sentinel version of SR ported over to their primary though. Either way I know my patience limit and I'm going to say sentinel would push it pretty hard compared to the relative ease of making tanker...well...tanky.

Edited January 15 by sutasafaia

[ZemX]

39 minutes ago, sutasafaia said:

Honestly a bit nervous about cascading defense failure, it's basically all you ever hear about when you mention SR, but it's not like people haven't worked around it already

 

You mean you're nervous about it if you play a non-SR tank?  Because SR pretty much doesn't need to be concerned at all about it.

[Rimerat]

Out of what you listed, SR is definitely the easiest to set up without messing with IO sets or anything.

 

But if you're new, I don't think that I'd reccommend it, even with the issues you mentioned. You're kind of pigeonholing yourself. IMO, SR doesn't [comparatively] have a lot of room to improve with invention sets.

 

Making builds, for me at least, is like a solid 70% or more of the fun I have on Homecoming.  For that reason, I'd suggest Invuln either when you get bored with SR or find its weaknesses to be too glaring. Invulnerability has tons of room to improve, and is also very tough 'out of the box' - plus it only really has one self-heal click you'll use in a rare moon and one 'panic button' you'll use rarely/never or skip taking altogether.

 

I wouldn't stress about the IO stuff too much. The forums and discord will be more than eager to help you out, and there's tons of builds for wherever way you decide to go.

[Psyonico]

SR gets 95% defense debuff resistance, which is the cap for tankers, cascading defense debuff is not a huge worry.

[Yomo Kimyata]

For the title of tankiest, I'd want something that is at or near melee defense soft cap, at or near tanker resist hard caps, and has some sort of ability to heal on command.  The problem I have with something like SR (and this is a personal problem, to be sure) is that even at soft caps, at least 5% of those attacks are going to get through and if you are constantly in the thick of it, those add up.  Defense debuff resistance is also important, but you are generally only going to get that in defense-oriented protection sets or through incarnates.

 

I'd think that my personal best would be something like radiation armor and either staff or titan weapons.  The offensive sets have enhanceable and stackable melee defense powers, and I don't think you would have too hard a time making bulletproof builds.  The downside is no DDR.  Invulnerability would cover that, but it's just not as fun or as busy a set!

[speczero]

As others have said, SR. You said your build is going to mostly be SO's for now, and I think you can reach your survival goals the easiest with SR on SO's only vs other options. It will also take the fewest SO's leaving you more spots to place SO's in your attacks. Just a note for your first build here, I would pair SR with Dark, Dark will give you a heal to keep your health topped off from the 5% or so of attacks that do get through. Also, SR/Dark has a pretty easy and simple rotation that will help with your mobility issues. 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Those who keep trying to direct you to "clicky" armor sets mean well. But, frankly, SR will function just fine for soloing the clear majority of content and it will be easier on your hands. Also, as was pointed out earlier cascading defense failure is what drivers of *other* armor sets worry about. SR tanks typically do not need to be concerned about that. 

 

To make an SR tank even tankier, focus on getting to the positional defense caps (melee, ranged, AOE) and then on life bonuses, regeneration bonuses, and resistances. Also, in case you didn't yet know, SR tanks have passive resistances that rise as health dips lower. So, consider getting some extra resistances in place by getting the fighting pool and by getting IO set bonuses. Those resistances you add will stack with the passive resistances that rise as health dips lower to make it harder and harder, as health dips lower and lower, for the small fraction of incoming attacks that actually hit your tank to overcome your SR tank's rate of health regeneration. There are sample builds available to help with the planning process. 

One potential drawback to SR tanking is that endurance can be challenging to manage. So, a secondary set that can help for managing endurance is likely to be a strong choice. A secondary that also offers some healing makes your tank that much stronger, in the end.

 

Another noteworthy challenge for SR tanks is that there are small selection of foes that have large enough "to hit" bonuses that they can pretty much ignore your SR tank's defenses. Devouring earth, some Rularuu, Nemesis spawns with vengeance active, and a limited number of others come to mind. For those encounters chewing on orange "resistance" inspirations and focusing on taking down spawns as soon as possible tends to help a lot. 

Edited January 15 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Thraxen]

Stone is tankiest but without IOs for run speed I wouldn’t bother. 
 

Run sr/ma. With the defense bonus from storm kick you can likely get to 45% without weave. I always take combat jumping on every toon just cause I hate playing without it because of the movement bonus. I’d still get tough though. It isn’t required but helps against most stuff that does hit. And you can put the two plus defense procs in it. Even if you only SO everything else still take those procs.

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, sutasafaia said:

Thanks for the advice, will likely end up as SR at this point. Just need to decide on a secondary. If I ever actually get to 50 and am able to farm up some influence I can see about trying out another set like stone or inv. Honestly a bit nervous about cascading defense failure, it's basically all you ever hear about when you mention SR, but it's not like people haven't worked around it already. Also wish there was a melee version of the pistol powerset 😛

 

I had almost been tempted to try out DP/SR on a sentinel as well, despite my current heavy leaning towards a tanker, but it seems like the sentinel would be squishy for a great deal longer due to SR being secondary instead of primary and I can easily see myself getting super frustrated. Plus harder to soft cap, so squishier longer still compared to tanker. Really wish tanker had the sentinel version of SR ported over to their primary though. Either way I know my patience limit and I'm going to say sentinel would push it pretty hard compared to the relative ease of making tanker...well...tanky.

You asked for the tankiest tank then went SR? ….  
 

Go to Yomo’s giveawy thread and get 100 mill. Look at any guide in how to make cash.  Spend 8 hours making cash (seeding AH, will take a day or two to realize profits). Then level the Tank you want on SOs and equip it with AH money. 
 

just my two cents…

 

But I would go Invul/Dark on SOs before i went SR and call it tougher

Edited January 16 by Snarky

[Troo]

it's a regen tank.

[Troo]

19 hours ago, sutasafaia said:

I am fairly new to the server so a decked out IO build is very far off in the future, so this would be more focused on basic SO/IO builds. Plus, due to disability mentioned in my other topic, the armor sets are going to be more limited.

 

..and your other post "Good AT/build for a handicapped player?" Answer: Forgiving without too much timing or clickiness?

 

Tanks and Brutes fit the bill.

Alternately a Brute might be a good fit if you are worried about making mistakes (tank goes down it might be the only tank on the team).

(Broot = ~10% less def though)

 

Tanky Tank Suggestions

Primaries (solid without too many clicks or management):

Super Reflexes

Shield Defense (SR light. See image below)

Invulnerability

 

Secondaries (Hard hitting or smooth damage without fancy combo mechanics):

Stone Melee (hits hard and knocks targets down)

Dark Melee (has a nice heal mixed in with solid attacks)

Claws (can effectively use just a handful of powers. some folks just use three)

Axe Melee

War Mace

Energy Melee (it hits hard even if there is a weird combo "Use Total Focus then choose one of three options"

Martial Arts

 

When you are ready I can show you a Bane Spider (Arachnos Soldier) that feels like a tank that adds some range, debuffs and stealth while not being complicated to play.

But that's a story for another time..

 

A note on Shield Defense = 40% positional (Melee, Ranged, AoE) defense very early with SOs. (46% shown below)

Edited January 16 by Troo

[UltraAlt]

On 1/15/2024 at 6:24 AM, sutasafaia said:

Is it obvious I have decision paralysis? I've bounced between characters so much I am convinced level 20 does not exist.

 

[Snarky]

Keep trying

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thraxen]

Sr is crazy tanky. Any super easy. And does the same with one enemy in melee or a dozen. Doesn’t directly boost damage but the 20% recharge bonus helps save tons of slots elsewhere if chasing perma hasten. 

[sutasafaia]

Thank you so much for the pile of advice, I've been reading it while I continue to browse and hunt down more info.

 

I do have a question after digging around and finding out more about some enemy types. Apparently there are a few enemies that more or less completely ignore your defense because they have such a high chance to hit (eyes and the like, apparently). Are there any similar enemies that basically ignore a characters resistance or is this just a handicap for defense players to deal with? Apparently getting 100% resist also gives you 100% resist against resist debuffs, where defense can also only ever get 95% debuff resist? Does this mean there are some enemies that SR basically just can't handle?

 

Also, can inv get to 100% all resist without its T9? I know you can get some pretty crazy numbers if you're willing to invest heavily later on with IO sets. It seems like, from my limited understanding, resist sets are just flat out better than defense if you can make yourself immune to being debuffed out of your primary means of protection. Obviously layering both types of protection is better. My understanding of the deeper mechanics of the game are likely making me make some silly assumptions here.

[Psyonico]

There are just a couple of very rare things that do various untyped damage.  These would not be affected by resistance.

 

As for Defense, there aren’t a whole lot of enemies that have high to-hit, and they’re easy first targets.  The exception being Nemesis Lts, which cast Vengeance on death. If stacked, this can cause problems.

 

Inv (or any other set that I can think of) can get to 100% resistance to all without the t9, but honestly, you’re probably overthinking this.  A solid tank doesn’t need 100% resistance to all, yes you will take damage and suffer from resistance debuffs, but it’s not a big deal.

 

Food for thought: my Bio/EM tank has no DDR other than what Ageless Radial provides and has medium resistance levels to everything but S/L (which sits right at about 90%).  I solo him at +2x8.  I could go higher, but +2 is better for speed.  He has 5 “panic” buttons, when I was playing him this evening (against Malta, no less) I didn’t use one of them in the 4 or 5 missions that I played.

 

As for the Resistance vs Defense debate: most players (and the current meta) will tell you that defense is better than resistance.  Basically, there aren;t that many auto-hit defense debuffs that you face in the late game.  A pure resistance build (against +0s) will get hit 50% of the time.  So any debuffs that are thrown at it have a pretty good chance of hitting.  A soft-capped defense build means you;re only getting hit by an attack (and therefore a debuff) one in 20 times (5%).  The original thinking of the devs on Live was that Resistance is better than Defense, so you’re not entirely wrong.

[sutasafaia]

Thanks for clarifying, that's good to know. And me? Over thinking? Never 😛

 

Guess I just need to decide on a secondary I enjoy at this point, which should only take me another week or so 🙂

 

On the plus side it looks like I'll also get to try sr on sentinel since my wife wants to do a duo. That one is easy though, pistols all the way for me. 

Edited January 17 by sutasafaia

[Cpt. Caveat]

I’m going to make a tank just so I can be the Caveat

[VoidSpawn]

I'll offer up a Super Tanker build I've been testing in my quest for The Tankiest Tanker. 

 

First, by way of disclosure, I play or have played all of the major Tanker armor types, and I've done it at high levels of power (having 172 level 50s allows for this). 

 

I agree that SR is a beast. All other armor types can be made so, too. It's just easier to do it with SR than with most others. To truly break a sweat with, say, my SR/DM, I'll use Linea's 801 series, or solo Hard Mode ITF, etc. 

 

Rad, Bio, Stone, Electric, etc. and et al, all have their own unique powers, and all of them, as well as the rest of the Tanker armor sets, may be built to near-perfection. 

 

My INV/DM Tanker? With use of Rune of Protection, it can periodically reach the "all 90 RES" plateau. But, it's not steady-state. and, ultimately, steady-state is really what you're aiming for when creating a Super Tanker. 

 

I admit to creating a few different builds in parallel, armoring them up, checking and testing them out. Then, after noticing the performance of one of them, I decided to Tier 4 it and check it out in more detail. 

 

Is it the Tankiest Tanker? That's entirely arguable, considering the fact that the definition of what constitutes any "tankiest tanker" isn't solid yet. But, it does have normally capped melee defense, a full heal on a quick timer, stealth, disorient, fear, and a damage aura. Then, to top off all of this, it's also got a combat steady-state of "all 90 RES" available to it... which may then be additionally reinforced by periodic doses of Storm Kick, Superior Might of the Tanker, Barrier, Melee Core Embodiment, and Rune of Protection.

 

Normal, non-combat RES and stats may be seen below: 

   

Notice that the Day Job "Frozen Hand of Death" is in the mix, providing +10% Negative and Cold Resistance. Cardiac Core Paragon is also in there, providing additional RES. However, none of the periodic modifiers are in the normal state shown above. 

 

Now, witness a snapshot of combat (with a bit of a Melee Defense debuff in place): 

 

Storm Kick, Superior Might of the Tanker, and Melee Core Embodiment are in various states of effect. Storm Kick and the procs from the Superior Might of the Tanker set will continue to preserve this new RES baseline under most circumstances. Barrier and Rune of Protection, which are not active at this point, may be activated (in the case of Barrier) and woven into the periodic mix (in the case of Rune of Protection). The coverage is total and complete over time, in almost all circumstances from large numbers in a mob to a single opponent.

 

DDR? Who cares. Take flight and hover above the Roman wannabe mobs, and effectively counter their ability to use swords on you. In other scenarios, such as when mobs of Incarnates are slaughtering your defense value, you can send most of them flailing away helplessly with your Dragon's Tail, stun them with your Oppressive Gloom, or scare the heck out of them with your ugly face. I mean, with your Cloak of Fear. 

 

So, just to be fair, while I, Void, consider this little monster to be an absolutely awesome Tanker, I'm not sure that it's on everyone's S-Tier list of Super Tankers (or, Tankiest Tankers). And, of course, anyone can stack Day Job powers, P2W temps and buffs and boosts, Superbase buffs, Temp Powers like "Wedding Band," etc., and pretty much do the same.  

 

I invite your thoughts on this matter. 

 

Build: 

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