A common complaint among older players is that "the game is too different, now." I have some thoughts.

[Wise Anarchy]

Disclaimer: I've not looked at the source code, nor the internal database, and I'm not certain how viable these ideas are, but hear me out, and remember that I offer the following with full due respect for the hard work that has gone into this game that is older than I am.

 

These ideas are for a specific way of running content that my SG and I have been toying with ideas about, and I'm going to suggest what I think is probably the easiest implementation for them, and my reasoning, in case I'm wrong and there's either a better way or it's an impossibility.

 

1.  Flag Fitness Pool as Prestige Powers, so that people can revoke them if they like being slow and weak, and put them in the P2W shop in case they realize they didn't want this, actually (or did it by accident).

2.  Separate out the Prestige Sprints into separate purchase and make them able to be revoked; I am aware they are likely the way that they are, in order to allow players to put Enhancements on them; to that end, I suggest checking them for Enhancements and additional Enhancement slots in the current build, and refusing to revoke them if either is the case, requiring the removal of the Enhancement or a respec in the case of slots.

 

3.  Allow players to revoke Temporary Powers, especially Temp Buffs (In case they're trying to run content specifically without those changing the balance of the game).

Any further limitations can be entirely self-imposed, as they're all optional, but players are required to start the game with Fitness and Prestige Power Slide (Mechanically a Prestige Sprint you can't opt out of), and some of us do want to do things with a difficulty twist, just to see if we can.

Thank you for any and all considerations you give to these ideas, and while I am aware that Prestige Power Slide and Prestige/Temporary Attacks are something you can choose to just not use, Temp buffs can't be manually dropped (that I know of), and Fitness also can't be dropped by people who don't want it at character creation.

Please have a wonderful day, and I hope I have adequately communicated that none of these things are in any way a criticism.  ❤️

[lemming]

1) Not sure how hard that would be, but the Fitness Pool becoming inherent was back on live.  Issue 19, Nov 2010

2) Technical annoyance to make them revocable.

3) Most temp powers can be deleted by going to the powers tab, right clicking on the power, and choosing delete.

Edited January 22 by lemming
added patch date

[Wise Anarchy]

36 minutes ago, lemming said:

1) Not sure how hard that would be, but the Fitness Pool becoming inherent was back on live.  Issue 19, Nov 2010

2) Technical annoyance to make them revocable.

3) Most temp powers can be deleted by going to the powers tab, right clicking on the power, and choosing delete.

1) My SG specifically wants to be a static that focuses on content up through the release of Issue 11 and not using anything from the P2W, allowing Ouroboros, and while I'm not sure when Fitness was made Inherent, I'm sure some people might like to go even further back.
2) I hope so, but I've helped with plenty of games where something like that was hard-coded and would break the entire game to change.
3) Yes, but many players also just automatically grab EXP Boosts without thinking about it, even if they didn't mean to, and I think it would be nice to drop the temp buffs without having to sit in-game for 8 hours in the event that you just rapidly clicked for all 8 stacks 😄

[Tatterhood]

1 hour ago, Wise Anarchy said:

3) Yes, but many players also just automatically grab EXP Boosts without thinking about it, even if they didn't mean to, and I think it would be nice to drop the temp buffs without having to sit in-game for 8 hours in the event that you just rapidly clicked for all 8 stacks 😄

You can delete xp boosters from the powers tab like any other temp power.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Wise Anarchy said:

1) My SG specifically wants to be a static that focuses on content up through the release of Issue 11 and not using anything from the P2W, allowing Ouroboros, and while I'm not sure when Fitness was made Inherent, I'm sure some people might like to go even further back.
2) I hope so, but I've helped with plenty of games where something like that was hard-coded and would break the entire game to change.
3) Yes, but many players also just automatically grab EXP Boosts without thinking about it, even if they didn't mean to, and I think it would be nice to drop the temp buffs without having to sit in-game for 8 hours in the event that you just rapidly clicked for all 8 stacks 😄

1) I said the exact issue with date.  Note that the code that came from SCORE only was what was at sunset.   Now that NCSoft is ok with HC existing, maybe they can release the old code. (If it even exists)

2)  I think just not using them is the best option.   Needing to add code for something that has an easy workaround isn't that good of a use.   Since you have experience, maybe looking at the released code (which won't be HC, but can give an idea of what to look for) can help.

3) Tatterhood is correct.  I think the few that are delete proof are things like the Cure Lost power that you need to complete Montague's arc.

 

This might help with some of the questions on when:

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Patch_Notes

[Random Robot]

On 1/21/2024 at 11:57 PM, Wise Anarchy said:

1.  Flag Fitness Pool as Prestige Powers, so that people can revoke them if they like being slow and weak, and put them in the P2W shop in case they realize they didn't want this, actually (or did it by accident).

 

I'd love some way to turn off Swift and Hurdle if you wanted to.  And Health and Stamina for anybody masochistic enough to want to. 🙂

 

edit: I wonder if it would be feasible to make them into toggles instead of passives? I suppose that would introduce extra complexity.

Edited February 1 by kidsnowflake

[Saiyajinzoningen]

I often wonder what the world would be like

if more folks took the energy they used longing for the good ole days

and instead used it to make tomorrow better.

[Greycat]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:55 PM, Wise Anarchy said:

1) My SG specifically wants to be a static that focuses on content up through the release of Issue 11 and not using anything from the P2W, allowing Ouroboros, and while I'm not sure when Fitness was made Inherent, I'm sure some people might like to go even further back.

 

We had an SG a while back that was emulating, as close as possible, release/early issues. Including taking (but not using) pool powers to simulate using power picks to take the fitness pool and sticking to the old leveling restrictions (no travel power before 14, for instance.)  It's doable as is. Yes, you still get some boost from it, but nothing's making you slot/enhance it right away. You could, I suppose, even take a toggle power of some sort to burn some of that extra END.

 

But it's doable "enough" right now, given all the other changes that have been implemented, both live and here. Rolling back or modifying for such a niche reason (and I say that as someone who played in that SG under those rules) ... just isn't realistic. Besides, how far back would you want to go? For instance, I *can't* play my electric/electric blaster like I did back in issue 3. Caps have changed, powers have changed - even ignoring the levels you can get them at now, Defiance exists (after multiple changes on live,) and I can't "toggle off" its effects, etc.

 

 

[Greycat]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:37 PM, lemming said:

1) I said the exact issue with date.  Note that the code that came from SCORE only was what was at sunset.   Now that NCSoft is ok with HC existing, maybe they can release the old code. (If it even exists)

 

 

There's zero reason for NC to have held on to the old code. I *believe* we were even told on live that some reversions to "how X was a few years/issues ago" wasn't possible because of this (not to mention everything else dependent on whatever changed at that point.)

 

Besides, the code as it was was *probably* more under the care of Cryptic/Paragon than NCSoft. NC was just the distributor (basically,) taking care of billing, not advertising and hosting (in essence.) They'd have no reason to have the game code. (As opposed to, say, Blizzard and WOW, which both owns and develops the game and is its own "publisher.") If NC had control of it, we probably *wouldn't* have what we have right now.

[Lockely]

8 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

There's zero reason for NC to have held on to the old code. I *believe* we were even told on live that some reversions to "how X was a few years/issues ago" wasn't possible because of this (not to mention everything else dependent on whatever changed at that point.)

 

Besides, the code as it was was *probably* more under the care of Cryptic/Paragon than NCSoft. NC was just the distributor (basically,) taking care of billing, not advertising and hosting (in essence.) They'd have no reason to have the game code. (As opposed to, say, Blizzard and WOW, which both owns and develops the game and is its own "publisher.") If NC had control of it, we probably *wouldn't* have what we have right now.

 

Especially from this era of gaming. The same problem exists with other defunct MMOs, the development team simply doesn't have it anymore, or its stored on old magnetic tapes in a forgotten closet in the basement with "Beware of Leopard" printed on a sign attached to it. Modern development uses Git and other similar revision control systems that allow you to dive back as far as you need to, but back then it was the Wild West. 

[sbloyd]

In other places HC Devs have said that being able to 'revoke' slottable powers is something they don't want to do, because it would irrevocably delete whatever you had slotted there at the time.  While a wise player would use Unslotters to make sure nothing of value is lost, I wouldn't want to be a GM answering request after request from players who have accidentally deleted millions worth of enhancers (especially since the answer would basically be "Too bad, so sad").

[Skyhawke]

Option to do things like turn Fitness off? Cool, more options usually don't hurt anything. Make them off from the get go and force the majority of players to have to go claim them so a handful of people can be happy? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....<deep breath>....oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[lemming]

46 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

There's zero reason for NC to have held on to the old code. I *believe* we were even told on live that some reversions to "how X was a few years/issues ago" wasn't possible because of this (not to mention everything else dependent on whatever changed at that point.)

 

Besides, the code as it was was *probably* more under the care of Cryptic/Paragon than NCSoft. NC was just the distributor (basically,) taking care of billing, not advertising and hosting (in essence.) They'd have no reason to have the game code. (As opposed to, say, Blizzard and WOW, which both owns and develops the game and is its own "publisher.") If NC had control of it, we probably *wouldn't* have what we have right now.

Yea, probably not in an easily accessible spot by this point.   I was thinking of some of the model work and while I believe it's a non-zero chance, probably fairly low that it's somewhere in company hands.    Based on a few anecdotes and personal experience, probably some offsite disks sitting in a drawer somewhere.

[Luminara]

41 minutes ago, sbloyd said:

In other places HC Devs have said that being able to 'revoke' slottable powers is something they don't want to do, because it would irrevocably delete whatever you had slotted there at the time.  While a wise player would use Unslotters to make sure nothing of value is lost, I wouldn't want to be a GM answering request after request from players who have accidentally deleted millions worth of enhancers (especially since the answer would basically be "Too bad, so sad").

 

The slots are deleted, too.  That's why they won't do it.  Enhancements can be replaced, slots can't.

[Fade]

It's pretty niche, but what about a temporary debuff available from the P2W vendor (now the P2L vendor, I suppose)?
If Stamina gives a +25% recovery bonus, grab an anti-Stamina -25% recovery temp power.

[JasperStone]

10 hours ago, kidsnowflake said:

 

I'd love some way to turn off Swift and Hurdle if you wanted to.  And Health and Stamina for anybody masochistic enough to want to. 🙂

 

edit: I wonder if it would be feasible to make them into toggles instead of passives? I suppose that would introduce extra complexity.

Do they boost even while unslotted?

 

[JasperStone]

24 minutes ago, Fade said:

It's pretty niche, but what about a temporary debuff available from the P2W vendor (now the P2L vendor, I suppose)?
If Stamina gives a +25% recovery bonus, grab an anti-Stamina -25% recovery temp power.

I love this!!

 

I am too powerful!!!

*slapped with a global debuff

 

Wait ...

Now I am too weak

*slapped with another global debuff

 

 

[Greycat]

27 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

Do they boost even while unslotted?

 

Yes.

[Azari]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:15 PM, lemming said:

1) Not sure how hard that would be, but the Fitness Pool becoming inherent was back on live.  Issue 19, Nov 2010

I always forget just how late in the game’s life fitness became inherent. I can hardly remember what it was like, not having inherent fitness.

 

honestly what we need is an OLD SCHOOL server with no IOs, and LOTS of debt. And travel powers at 14! XD

[JasperStone]

1 hour ago, Azari said:

I always forget just how late in the game’s life fitness became inherent. I can hardly remember what it was like, not having inherent fitness.

 

honestly what we need is an OLD SCHOOL server with no IOs, and LOTS of debt. And travel powers at 14! XD

Fitness and the fighting pool.... egads

[Lockely]

4 hours ago, Azari said:

I always forget just how late in the game’s life fitness became inherent. I can hardly remember what it was like, not having inherent fitness.

 

honestly what we need is an OLD SCHOOL server with no IOs, and LOTS of debt. And travel powers at 14! XD

 

I still get surprised when I'm offered a travel power at 4 to be honest.

[macskull]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:37 PM, lemming said:

1) I said the exact issue with date.  Note that the code that came from SCORE only was what was at sunset.   Now that NCSoft is ok with HC existing, maybe they can release the old code. (If it even exists)

There are two "base" versions of the code that are publicly available: the "I24" version which is the last beta build from the pre-shutdown test server, and the "I25" version which includes all changes and additions made to the game between shutdown and early 2019. However the code base and account data was obtained by the people who ran the post-shutdown server, it apparently didn't include the I23 code or we probably would have seen that released along with the I24 beta code.

[lemming]

3 hours ago, macskull said:

There are two "base" versions of the code that are publicly available: the "I24" version which is the last beta build from the pre-shutdown test server, and the "I25" version which includes all changes and additions made to the game between shutdown and early 2019. However the code base and account data was obtained by the people who ran the post-shutdown server, it apparently didn't include the I23 code or we probably would have seen that released along with the I24 beta code.

Right.  I assumed that the code that got out to the wild was the snapshot of the state of the game at the time.   It would really depend on source control, backups, etc... at NCSoft if it happened and if anyone archived it for later perusal.   It was just a thought, and really depends on if someone is willing to look even if it was OK.