The Fantastic Four: First Steps

[battlewraith]

Some people can't grasp the difference between dislike of certain types of people and dislike of certain types of characterizations, particularly in fiction. 

Some people understand the difference, but will equate the two things in order to deflect criticism that they don't like. 

 

An easy way to see if somebody has an issue with a female character--put that character in charge of something. See who gets mad.

Also, Alex I'll take therapist for $200. 

[ZacKing]

31 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

An easy way to see if somebody has an issue with a female character--put that character in charge of something. See who gets mad.

 

On 4/29/2025 at 4:22 PM, Excraft said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a female character being a leader or in a position of authority.  No one has said otherwise.  See the aforementioned Captain Janeway, Elizabeth Weir, Samantha Carter et al.  All of them well loved, well written characters. 

 

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

7 hours ago, TTRPGWhiz said:

Feels like this convo has reached a nadir, no?

There's such thing as direct messages as well. 10 of the 11 pages on my thread are three people talking to eachother exclusively. The movie isn't even out yet, I'm surprised how much there is to write about considering. 

[battlewraith]

TLDR Version of this thread:

 

1. This movie will suck because of Pedro Pascal

2. This movie will suck because of time travel

3. RDJ as Doctor Doom?!?!

4. This movie will suck because of the fake trailer I just watched. Nothing can polish this turd!

5. Real trailer looks good. Oooops turd got polished.

6. Digression about Superman's disguise. 

7. Griping about modern audiences. 

8. Of course Reed is a dick and will talk down to his wife.

9. No, Sue can't be a bossgirl. She's a mom. Haven't you seen Aliens?!?

 

The thread was rife with negativity from the get-go. I'm looking forward to it. That first trailer won me over.

I think strong visual style is the key to success for this film. I also read articles about Sue and Johnny that make them sound like thoughtful interesting takes on the characters. 

Beyond that I don't want to know much more because I want to go in not knowing how things will play out. 

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, battlewraith said:

1. This movie will suck because of Pedro Pascal

2. This movie will suck because of time travel

3. RDJ as Doctor Doom?!?!

4. This movie will suck because of the fake trailer I just watched. Nothing can polish this turd!

5. Real trailer looks good. Oooops turd got polished.

6. Digression about Superman's disguise. 

7. Griping about modern audiences. 

8. Of course Reed is a dick and will talk down to his wife.

9. No, Sue can't be a bossgirl. She's a mom. Haven't you seen Aliens?!?

 

You left out - 

 

10.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how female characters written with any inkling of maternal instinct or being a mother as a motivation makes those characters cliche, shallow, weak gimmicks. 

11.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how changing a character from their source material is SUPER BAD BAD!! (see Ripley not being a mom in Alien, but made a mom in Aliens).  Changing a female character to be a mom/have maternal instincts  is SUPER TERRIBLE  BAD BAD!!! and ruins the character by turning them into a gimmicky cliche and is pandering.

12.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how changing a character from their source material who IS a mom and IS a motherly/maternal figure as part of her character (see Sue Storm) while still being well respected, very powerful and a valued team member is NOT SUPER BAD BAD!! because bizarre reasons.  She should be made the leader and the boss lady because MEN BAD!!!  WOMAN MOM GIMMICK!!

Edited May 2 by Excraft

[battlewraith]

7 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

You left out - 

 

10.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how female characters written with any inkling of maternal instinct or being a mother as a motivation makes those characters cliche, shallow, weak gimmicks. 

11.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how changing a character from their source material is SUPER BAD BAD!! (see Ripley not being a mom in Alien, but made a mom in Aliens).  Changing a female character to be a mom/have maternal instincts  is SUPER TERRIBLE  BAD BAD!!! and ruins the character by turning them into a gimmicky cliche and is pandering.

12.  The parts where you went on and on and on about how changing a character from their source material who IS a mom and IS a motherly/maternal figure as part of her character (see Sue Storm) while still being well respected, very powerful and a valued team member is NOT SUPER BAD BAD!! because bizarre reasons.  She should be made the leader and the boss lady because MEN BAD!!!  WOMAN MOM GIMMICK!!

 

Lol I went on and on and on because you and others kept quoting me. Don't cry about it. 

The movie will eventually come out, so we will have answers to a lot of the objections (whether Pasco will work as Reed, etc.)

If Sue in the film is put in charge of everything, starts barking orders and making the others look stupid, you can proudly say I told you so.

If it turns out to be a reasonable depiction of the character for 2025, I'll point to all the whinging you did over nothing. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Let's circle back to this after the movie comes out . . . hopefully with less animosity and bickering .

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Well, the movie is out now.  Let's talk about it!

 

But please, let's have less bickering and animosity.

 

B.E.T.E.O!

[Glacier Peak]

Reviews are in! I haven't seen it yet, so no spoilers, but it isn't a stinker based on what I've read.

[GM Crumpet]

I saw it today. No spoilers, but the cast is good. No boss girl talking down to Reed, no Reed talking down to Sue as if she knows nothing. Great set design, great costumes, they nailed Silver Surfers origin story, it's comic book accurate (Yes there is a canon female surfer), they nailed Galactus. Nice simple plot but some of the cuts and reshoots in the third act are pretty obvious. 

 

7/10 decent movie. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it's easy to follow and it's not overstuffed.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, GM Crumpet said:

I saw it today. No spoilers, but the cast is good. No boss girl talking down to Reed, no Reed talking down to Sue as if she knows nothing. Great set design, great costumes, they nailed Silver Surfers origin story, it's comic book accurate (Yes there is a canon female surfer), they nailed Galactus. Nice simple plot but some of the cuts and reshoots in the third act are pretty obvious. 

 

7/10 decent movie. It's not going to set the world on fire, but it's easy to follow and it's not overstuffed.

 

I'm seeing this tonight, but people really gotta stop the "It's comic book accurate" with that, they really can't say anything isn't comic book accurate, because what if/else world/alternate reality characters exist.

She wasn't Silver Surfer for more than like 10 pages of a comic.

 

That's not what people generally call comic accurate.

 

You may as well say "Well, the artists don't always make Wolverine look short, so Hugh being tall is comic accurate" 😛

[Luminara]

3 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

they nailed Galactus

 

Well, that's one way to get him to relax.

[BrandX]

Enjoyed it.  I still wouldn't call Shalla-Bal accurate, was hoping we'd see her leaving a non Silver Surfer Norrin and it didn't happen.  😛

 

Also don't need to know anything about anything to see the movie, so for those who whine about wanting self contained marvel movies, this does that.

[GM Crumpet]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

Enjoyed it.  I still wouldn't call Shalla-Bal accurate, was hoping we'd see her leaving a non Silver Surfer Norrin and it didn't happen.  😛

 

Also don't need to know anything about anything to see the movie, so for those who whine about wanting self contained marvel movies, this does that.

For the small run she was in it was accurate. I really liked her portrayal. They probably wanted to dive deeper into the back story, I know the film is shorter than originally intended, but it was enough. Shalla Bal has a complicated history anyway, and when you add in things like What If? and cameos she's an easy pick. Especially if they want to use Norrin in the main continuity.

[battlewraith]

Just saw it. I think I'd give it a "b". 

The cast was good. The design and the special effects were good. The early part of the movie struck me as more in line with Kirby stories that were tales of wonder.

The second half became focused on "we have to defeat this world ending threat" and it kind of dragged.

I'm really wondering if what ended up being the resolution of the film was entirely different that what was initially supposed to happen.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Reviewers who I typically agree with have said it's probably the best Fantastic Four movie yet. I'm thinking of actually going to see it.

[Ghost]

58 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Just saw it. I think I'd give it a "b". 

The cast was good. The design and the special effects were good. The early part of the movie struck me as more in line with Kirby stories that were tales of wonder.

The second half became focused on "we have to defeat this world ending threat" and it kind of dragged.

I'm really wondering if what ended up being the resolution of the film was entirely different that what was initially supposed to happen.

Don’t know what the original ending was, but most reports I’d seen said it was the final part of the movie that was reshot.

Apparently people who went to screenings earlier this year really hated the ending.

[Darmian]

Saw it today.  I'd rate Thunderbolts as better personally.  While enjoyable I felt that several great actors (Vanessa Kirby stood out for me) were trying very hard to make an OK script better by sheer force of will.

 

The Retro-future 60s DID look great though.

 

And Galactus is not a cloud.  Bonus point.

[Aracknight]

I really liked it.  There were a lot of comic-book cover scenes and images in the opening montage that I liked, and outside of Reed I really liked the characters, especially the Thing.  My unpopular opinion is that Mr. Pascal doesn't need to be in everything.  I feel like there were easter eggs that hit my subconscious that I need a second viewing to catch properly, but my personal opinion is that I think it's one of the best post-Endgame efforts thus far.  

 

And I'm usually a pretty bitchy fanboy, if I'm being honest.

 

YMMV

Edited Saturday at 11:49 PM by Aracknight