Quick Form Snipes. Bleh.

[Acrizer]

Is there a way to turn off Quick Form sniper attacks? I find them very unsatisfying and I find I'm regularly being flagged as "in combat" when I have plenty of time to snipe (pet is hassling with some dude, or a teammate is). Also, I am usually teamed with a Dominator. I don't want or need "quick form" I just want to blast extra hard and will gladly give up Quick Form for the satisfying actual, really real sniper style attack.

 

I assume I'm missing something which makes quick form super cool, so if you're a fan maybe you can help me see it. But as is, I really dislike it and want to turn that option off. I want the slow version all the time and am so sick of my snipes getting ruined by being flagged as "in combat" I'm considering just dropping the snipe attack to end my frustration.

[brass_eagle]

There's not a way that I know of. Before quick snipes were, there was an IO enhancement to give quick snipes. Maybe in your question, there's a request for an enhancement set with an IO that locks in long snipes? I don't know.

 

Editted to add: 

 

I believe it's still the case, someone correct me if this changed but the damage of the quick snipe scales with ToHit+. If you hit a certain threshold around 22% it's near the damage of a long snipe increased to its maximum damage bonus (edit: see post below).

Edited February 22 by brass_eagle

[Frozen Burn]

10 minutes ago, Acrizer said:

Is there a way to turn off Quick Form sniper attacks? I find them very unsatisfying and I find I'm regularly being flagged as "in combat" when I have plenty of time to snipe (pet is hassling with some dude, or a teammate is). Also, I am usually teamed with a Dominator. I don't want or need "quick form" I just want to blast extra hard and will gladly give up Quick Form for the satisfying actual, really real sniper style attack.

 

I assume I'm missing something which makes quick form super cool, so if you're a fan maybe you can help me see it. But as is, I really dislike it and want to turn that option off. I want the slow version all the time and am so sick of my snipes getting ruined by being flagged as "in combat" I'm considering just dropping the snipe attack to end my frustration.

 

No, quick snipe cannot be turned off.  Your teammates will not put you into combat, but your pet(s) will.  So, if you want to use your full snipe, you'll have to dismiss your pet and wait the few seconds period (can't remember how long... 4-5 secs?) for your quick snipe to turn to full snipe. 

 

However, you most likely will lose DPS this way as you do nothing for several seconds.  Within that time, you could be finishing off mobs or whittling bigger ones down more, by using other powers and your quick snipe (and your pet doing damage too!) vs. waiting around for your full snipe.  The Devs have really balanced this out to make snipe powers a viable DPS power with quick snipe - this is why it was implemented in the first place.

 

I highly suggest you embrace the quick snipe.  But if not, then you'll just have eliminate your pet and stop attacking for a short while.  Use your full snipe as the alpha to the next mob.

[Arcadio]

Unless something changed, I think +22 tohit should be the same damage as long snipe since that was the original threshold for quicksnipe from live.

[Acrizer]

21 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

However, you most likely will lose DPS this way as you do nothing for several seconds.  Within that time, you could be finishing off mobs or whittling bigger ones down more, by using other powers and your quick snipe (and your pet doing damage too!) vs. waiting around for your full snipe.  The Devs have really balanced this out to make snipe powers a viable DPS power with quick snipe - this is why it was implemented in the first place.

 

Yes, the primary issue I have is I line up my snipe and then.... oh, quick snipe/half damage even though I haven't done anything yet. I find it frustrating. And there's not a lot stopping me from being flagged, again, even if I do stand around for the 5-8 seconds or whatever it is - which would be silly, imo. So, yeah, definitely a big loss to DPS when I could realistically stand in the middle of a fight and slow snipe otherwise. 

 

There's not a big difference on the slow snipe with cast time/recharge for about double the damage. I'd really like to be able to toggle quick form off. I'd even waste a slot for a "Slow Form Only" IO. I mean, Afterburner isn't on by default. Let me choose if Quick Snipe toggles.

 

My pet isn't really doing damage (dark), it's holding bad guys in place so I can do the damage.  It seems to happen often when teammates attack/are noticed - I'm usually under stealth - and then suddenly I'm flagged (I assume part of the group aggroes my way, but they are often  locked down at that point) and the pet is usually trailing behind a little, so my assumption is teammates are getting me flagged somehow. I'm not opposed to the idea I'm ignorant of what's causing it, all I know is I almost never get to actually use my sniper attack as a sniper attack. My attack one tier down is more efficient (only 2.6 damage difference according to mids) using less endurance and cycling about twice as fast as the quick snipe, so why even have the snipe?

 

Anyway, apologies for the bleeptching. I appreciate the response even if it wasn't the one I wanted.

[Acrizer]

1 hour ago, brass_eagle said:

I believe it's still the case, someone correct me if this changed but the damage of the quick snipe scales with ToHit+. If you hit a certain threshold around 22% its near the damage of a long snipe.

 

Could someone maybe elaborate on this? 

 

Edit: As in, what does "+22 ToHit" mean? Is that "Accuracy" on the "Ehance" tab in mids? And is this the case?

Edited February 22 by Acrizer

[tidge]

As written above, the advantage of the Fast Snipe is that the +ToHit becomes extra damage, up to 22%. IMO the biggest drawback to Fast Snipes is the loss of Range, not damage.

 

I only have one character that leverages the Experienced Marksman Range/Fast Snipe piece. That particular build was designed to have better options than a long ranged Snipe, and also has a lot of +ToHit.

[Frozen Burn]

3 minutes ago, Acrizer said:

 

Yes, the primary issue I have is I line up my snipe and then.... oh, quick snipe/half damage even though I haven't done anything yet. I find it frustrating. And there's not a lot stopping me from being flagged, again, even if I do stand around for the 5-8 seconds or whatever it is - which would be silly, imo. So, yeah, definitely a big loss to DPS when I could realistically stand in the middle of a fight and slow snipe otherwise. 

 

There's not a big difference on the slow snipe with cast time/recharge for about double the damage. I'd really like to be able to toggle quick form off. I'd even waste a slot for a "Slow Form Only" IO. I mean, Afterburner isn't on by default. Let me choose if Quick Snipe toggles.

 

My pet isn't really doing damage (dark), it's holding bad guys in place so I can do the damage.  It seems to happen often when teammates attack/are noticed - I'm usually under stealth - and then suddenly I'm flagged (I assume part of the group aggroes my way, but they are often  locked down at that point) and the pet is usually trailing behind a little, so my assumption is teammates are getting me flagged somehow. I'm not opposed to the idea I'm ignorant of what's causing it, all I know is I almost never get to actually use my sniper attack as a sniper attack. My attack one tier down is more efficient (only 2.6 damage difference according to mids) using less endurance and cycling about twice as fast as the quick snipe, so why even have the snipe?

 

Anyway, apologies for the bleeptching. I appreciate the response even if it wasn't the one I wanted.

 

I hear ya.  But there is a big difference in DPS waiting for multiple long snipes vs. using many quick snipes and other powers - you get more with quick + other powers vs. many long snipes.  Standing back and using long snipe was never efficient.  And as mentioned above, quick snipe does do better with more ToHit added into your build.  

 

Regarding your pet - even if all it is doing is holds, or debuffing foes.... it is still aggroing.  And all pet aggro puts you into combat.  No way around that unless you despawn your pet or keep it out of aggro range from upcoming mobs.  

 

I know it's not all what you want to hear... but if you embrace it, you'll find you do much better on the whole.  🙂  

[Acrizer]

2 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

I hear ya.  But there is a big difference in DPS waiting for multiple long snipes vs. using many quick snipes and other powers - you get more with quick + other powers vs. many long snipes.  Standing back and using long snipe was never efficient.  And as mentioned above, quick snipe does do better with more ToHit added into your build.  

 

Regarding your pet - even if all it is doing is holds, or debuffing foes.... it is still aggroing.  And all pet aggro puts you into combat.  No way around that unless you despawn your pet or keep it out of aggro range from upcoming mobs.  

 

I know it's not all what you want to hear... but if you embrace it, you'll find you do much better on the whole.  🙂  

 

Yes, but the pet is usually behind us. I often have to run in closer to enemies just to get it to start doing things, so I'm having trouble boggling how it's the primary problem. Aside from that, which is me trying to live with it by opening with a (failed) snipe, I want to be able to slow snipe in the middle of a fight... let me explain:

 

While slow sniping might not be as efficient as tossing out 2-3 faster attacks, it's so very much more satisfying. I mean, it's only 2 seconds more for 700-800+ more damage per hit. And to be fair, I don't really get to do a continuous faster attack chain because I also lob around heals, line up cones, and do other corruptory stuff, so if I can only hit once every 6 seconds, I want that big hit. Also, now I don't have the range to pop that pesky runner because my snipe has gone limp. So for me, at least, I'm not really sure it's less efficient to snipe.  Maybe quick snipe is great for the blasters and more speed rotation blast-focused builds. For me, it suffers from the greatest sin it could. It's not fun. No one should click a power and be disappointed.

 

That said, I'm curious about this +ToHit business.

 

[brass_eagle]

I couldn't find the exact math (whether it's linear). It appears it isn't close to the damage of slow snipe, but just an increase. If there were other changes I can't remember them. Maybe someone with better search-fu or memory can. No matter how you slice it though, the fast snipes are still excellent damage / DPA attacks, even if they don't do a full slow-snipe burst. Albeit, endurance heavy.

 

Here are changes from 2019 (green highlights):

 

Quote

Powers: Snipes

• General Changes
  • ToHit is no longer required to achieve fast-snipe. Now, combat status determines if snipes are fast or slow, and ToHit buffs increase how much damage fast-snipe inflicts.
  • The snipe will be fast if you have attacked or been attacked in the last 8 seconds; this is the same time as Stalker's Hide.
  • Note that PvP scale is based only around the PvP damage formula. ToHit buffs and debuffs do not change quick snipe damage in PvP.
  • The following fast snipe animations have been synced with their FX, no cast time changes: Moonbeam, Zapp, Sniper Blast, Proton Volley (they all remain at their original 1.33 second duration.)
  • Added a new PVP IO Snipe set "Experienced Marksman"; includes proc that will always turn your Snipes into the fast version.
• Blaster/Defender/Corruptor Snipes
  • 12 second recharge and 14.352 end cost.
  • Base 2.28 scale damage in their "quick" form, down from 2.76 scale.
  • Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.76 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
  • Slow form will do 4.5 scale damage.
• Dominator Snipes
  • 20 second recharge and 18.512 end cost.
  • Base 2.67 scale damage in their "quick" form, down from 3.56 scale.
  • Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 3.56 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
  • Slow form will do 4.5 scale damage.
• Epic Snipes
  • Will now have a base 1.75 scale damage in their quick form.
  • Every point of ToHit buffing the player has will increase or decrease this damage, up to a cap of 2.3 scale damage with +22% ToHit buff.
  • Slow form will do 3.56 scale damage
  • Slow form crits will do 3.56 + 1.78 scale damage.
  • Scrappers should now properly crit 10% of the time, instead of using Stalker requirements.

 

 

Edited February 22 by brass_eagle
I'm dum dum

[brass_eagle]

2 hours ago, Acrizer said:

 

Could someone maybe elaborate on this? 

 

Edit: As in, what does "+22 ToHit" mean? Is that "Accuracy" on the "Ehance" tab in mids? And is this the case?

 

(avoiding saying chance-to-hit to avoid confusion here)

 

Sorry for double post, but I wanted to answer this specifically. ToHit is NOT accuracy. They are separate attributes that both increase your chance to land your attack (up to 95%). The former is considered more useful.

 

Very few powers that buff the 'chance to land an attack' increase accuracy. That mostly comes from set bonuses and enhancements. Most powers that buff the 'chance to land attacks' have ToHit (Aim, Build Up, Tactics, World of Pain... etc.). You can look at a powers detailed info or right-click and it will sometimes say +ToHit on it.

 

The Kismet IO is +6 ToHit and can be slotted in any defense power accepting defense sets.

 

The terminology is a bit confusing at first, I'll admit.

Edited February 22 by brass_eagle

[Acrizer]

21 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

 

(brass_eagle says good stuff)

 

 

I appreciate the effort, many thanks. I'll just have to accept I hate Quick Form and I'm just "that guy" in this case. 4 enhancement slots or multiple power picks to get 61% damage? Yuck.

[brass_eagle]

15 minutes ago, Acrizer said:

 

I appreciate the effort, many thanks. I'll just have to accept I hate Quick Form and I'm just "that guy" in this case. 4 enhancement slots or multiple power picks to get 61% damage? Yuck.

 

The number may look bad when you put it like that, but I guess I'm from an era where this was not an option in the game. Very few people took snipes. This change has turned snipes into some sets best ST attacks (Electric / Beam Rifle) and is an overall boost to any set that containing a snipe.

 

If you can change your frame of mind to not look to harshly at that 61%, you can find great value there. Not to mention the +Range boost from using one as a blaster. They are, however, not necessary by any means for normal play.

 

But, can always request an IO be added that locks long snipes in the suggestions forums.. Maybe it's easy for the team to do, or maybe not.

Edited February 22 by brass_eagle
Add end

[Frozen Burn]

7 hours ago, Acrizer said:

 

Yes, but the pet is usually behind us. I often have to run in closer to enemies just to get it to start doing things, so I'm having trouble boggling how it's the primary problem. Aside from that, which is me trying to live with it by opening with a (failed) snipe, I want to be able to slow snipe in the middle of a fight... let me explain:

 

While slow sniping might not be as efficient as tossing out 2-3 faster attacks, it's so very much more satisfying. I mean, it's only 2 seconds more for 700-800+ more damage per hit. And to be fair, I don't really get to do a continuous faster attack chain because I also lob around heals, line up cones, and do other corruptory stuff, so if I can only hit once every 6 seconds, I want that big hit. Also, now I don't have the range to pop that pesky runner because my snipe has gone limp. So for me, at least, I'm not really sure it's less efficient to snipe.  Maybe quick snipe is great for the blasters and more speed rotation blast-focused builds. For me, it suffers from the greatest sin it could. It's not fun. No one should click a power and be disappointed.

 

That said, I'm curious about this +ToHit business.

 

 

 

Again, I hear you.  I understand your point and why you have your preference.  I played the game since it started and before there was quick snipe.  And yes, you could attempt to do a long snipe in the middle of combat and you prayed no one would hit you to interrupt you... it happened quite often, really, and you had to start over and over and over until you gave up and had to use other powers because you kept getting interrupted.  (Which is why quick Snipe was born.)  But yes, long snipe is satisfying.  Seeing the animation, seeing the big number, and reaching that foe so very far away.  I get it.  

 

Unfortunately, there is no changing it, so I was just trying to offer some hope to ease the swallowing of a very bitter pill.  🙂  

 

And about your pet.  Whether it's in the back, side, or wherever.... if it is doing anything to any foe... then you lose your long snipe.  If you are close enough to foes and even though you or your pet did not initiate combat - and the foes did - you lose your long snipe.  As long as you or your pet are attacking or being attacked - you lose you long snipe.  (What your teammates do does not matter, unless they pull mobs onto you making them attack you - which that happens often too, so be careful about that.)

 

So, you'll have to hang back even further to ensure your pet sees no one and no one is in aggro range of you or your pet, or your teammates can't drag aggro onto you.  Your long snipe has a further range than your pet's and foes' aggro range - so there is no reason you can't at least open combat with it.  Again, just have to hang back more.  

 

Also again.... sorry this is all news that you didn't want to hear.  Just trying to offer a silver lining to it.  Good luck!

 

[Acrizer]

21 hours ago, brass_eagle said:

 

The number may look bad when you put it like that, but I guess I'm from an era where this was not an option in the game. Very few people took snipes. This change has turned snipes into some sets best ST attacks (Electric / Beam Rifle) and is an overall boost to any set that containing a snipe.

 

Yeah, me, too.  But I was a snipe lover. Why shoot a guy 3-4 times when I can do it once? And do it all without breaking mez on those sleeping beauties with an AOE or stealing aggro (because they're dead). I'll gladly take 2 more seconds and "risk" of interruption (never really a problem for this character) for 700 more damage per hit. My attention isn't lost by not constantly pressing buttons and I'm perfectly happy with a quality hit instead of quantity. So, yeah. I'm that guy. 😕 

 

[FupDup]

Since there's an IO that makes you always do quicksnipes, I think there should also be an IO that makes it always do the slow snipe even while "engaged." 

 

Maybe something like this: 

 

Open to suggestions on set bonuses and how to divide up the enhancement values, just threw this together in a few minutes. 

Edited February 23 by FupDup

[Acrizer]

12 minutes ago, FupDup said:

Since there's an IO that makes you always do quicksnipes, I think there should also be an IO that makes it always do the slow snipe even while "engaged." 

 

That would totally work for me.

 

 

Thanks, everyone, for the discussion. I've gone ahead and posted in the suggestions forum. I don't want anything changed for people who like things as they are. I just want the ability to have my sniper attack power to be my sniper attack power.

[srmalloy]

On 2/22/2024 at 9:21 AM, brass_eagle said:

Before quick snipes were, there was an IO enhancement to give quick snipes.

It seems a bit odd that, once fast snipes were put into the game, that we have the Experienced Marksman: Rng/Fast Snipe IO to make all snipes fast, and but there's no set with, say, Rng/Slow Snipe to force snipes to always have the 'out of combat' range and damage. It seems reasonable that giving players more options would be a good thing. I remember, back before quick snipes were a thing, doing the "don't pay attention to me" dance with my AR/EM Blaster to get enough time to get off a snipe in the middle of combat against a target at the far side of a fight.

[Greycat]

Yeah. Absolutely *hate* quick snipe. You don't even need a *pet* to trigger it. Just, essentially, be targeted.  I want to use it to *snipe.* If I wanted another in close combat power, I'd pick another in close combat power. For snipes, I want that range. It's the reason I've always taken them.

[Haijinx]

I like the IO idea or even a Null gull option.

 

But I prefer the fast snipe, just seems dumb to make everyone else have to

[Erratic1]

 

11 hours ago, Greycat said:

Yeah. Absolutely *hate* quick snipe. You don't even need a *pet* to trigger it. Just, essentially, be targeted.  I want to use it to *snipe.* If I wanted another in close combat power, I'd pick another in close combat power. For snipes, I want that range. It's the reason I've always taken them.

 

You can snipe all you want when not in combat. In combat, though, the power does not just sit there uselessly.

[Psiphon]

Hi, as a work around you could try taking Stealth and using a stealth IO in Sprint, this will make you invisible. It won't resolve the issue but should reduce your threat level and make you harder to target, allowing you to use the full snipe more often. 

Edited April 23 by Psiphon

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

You can snipe all you want when not in combat. In combat, though, the power does not just sit there uselessly.

Didn't "sit there uselessly" for me before, either, from I3 all the way up to when it was changed... unlike now. Thanks for assuming, though. 

 

[Erratic1]

Just now, Greycat said:

Didn't "sit there uselessly" for me before, either, from I3 all the way up to when it was changed... unlike now. Thanks for assuming, though. 

 

 

If you want to spend sniper's wind up time waiting for its damage, please be my guest at doing less dps.  Sorry for assuming you would want higher dps.

[Greycat]

Just now, Erratic1 said:

 

If you want to spend sniper's wind up time waiting for its damage, please be my guest at doing less dps.  Sorry for assuming you would want higher dps.

 

I want *range,* which is the *point* of a snipe. Not "OMG I need another power I can use at shorter ranges for moah DPS in a powerset type that's nothing but DPS!" I don't know of any other game where someone looks at a sniper and goes "OMG, they need to be right up front and in close range to use their abilities!"

 

I can sit *out* of range and take out troublesome mobs *before they're troublesome.* Not sit there and have to wait because I've used some other power for the *designed purpose of a snipe* to be re-granted to me. I was working with it *just fine* - yes, even in combat, which is apparently SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND for some people. And I certainly have never had a team complain about "mah DPS" when I'm taking out troublesome mobs before they could affect the team (no DPS when you're held, or sapped of END, for instance) or pulling from a distance.

 

"Fast snipe" is as counter to its *designed purpose* as reworking melee sets to heal the enemies it hits would be. But you go on making assumptions and wanna-be-clever comments, champ.