I grind like a bitch, and I still can't keep my holes filled

[macskull]

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Whatever.

I know what was going on in-game.

Apparently not.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I know what...

... implies...

Apparently not.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Lot of mechanics were hidden when this game as first released.

“It was hidden, trust me bro” is a poor defense when there is zero evidence of it ever being unhidden to work the way it does now.

 

2 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

So you show me where it says how XP worked on a team when the game was first released.

Prove it.

You are the only person ingame, on the forums, or on Discord that I’ve ever seen make this claim. This one’s gonna fall squarely in the “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” category. If it had originally worked the way you claim and had been changed to its current behavior at some point, there would be a patch note referencing it - but there isn’t.

 

EDIT: If this were actually how inf and xp worked when the game launched, the “fire tanker herds whole map into dumpster full of tripmines” era of the game would never have happened - no one would have ever joined one of those teams because they wouldn’t receive any rewards unless they were the Blaster, and power leveling would have never been a thing.

Edited March 1 by macskull

[AmrasNotHere]

It never fails to amaze me how some people can theory craft so hard that it becomes their truth. Should invest in a time machine so you can go back to all the "used to be" moments and see how accurate your assumptions are.

The community is kind enough to help people go in the right direction who are just trying to play the game and have genuine questions. You just have to make sure you're not falling for the trust me bro content of how things used to be instead of how things are now.

Maybe the path forward to mediate some of this frustration could be changing SO effectiveness levels to something more in line with the game economy such as +6 to -9 so newer players can replace those every 15 instead of 5. That would soften the blow on their inf pile while they figure out what they like and get established.

Lastly, who the hell is referencing a patch in regards to the old version of side kicking?! Oh wait I see now....

P.S. I'd like to petition changing the title to "Grind like a bitch, join in to whine like a bitch" please.

[lemming]

There was some behaviour that was briefly done where you could run through a high level zone tagging mobs for 1 hit and when a higher level char not on your team whacked it, you'd get a massive amount of XP.    I don't think that lasted very long and I'm fuzzy on those details.

[Indystruck]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

So you show me where it says how XP worked on a team when the game was first released.

Prove it.

 

Pulling "source: Bro, trust me," then demanding someone else provide proof beyond you taking a patch note incorrectly is pretty good.

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, lemming said:

There was some behaviour that was briefly done where you could run through a high level zone tagging mobs for 1 hit and when a higher level char not on your team whacked it, you'd get a massive amount of XP.    I don't think that lasted very long and I'm fuzzy on those details.

 

It was (and still is) definitely the case that XP is split by damage dealt among NON-teamed characters.  Whether it was that way literally on day 1 or throughout beta, I can't say I recall.  It would make sense though that if they HAD started with an even split among all characters who had damaged a mob, it would lead to the exploit you describe and then be solved by implementing a damage-based split.

 

This would also have mattered more back in the early days when it wasn't uncommon to earn XP via street sweeping rather than in teamed-instanced missions.

[lemming]

8 minutes ago, AmrasNotHere said:

Maybe the path forward to mediate some of this frustration could be changing SO effectiveness levels to something more in line with the game economy such as +6 to -9 so newer players can replace those every 15 instead of 5. That would soften the blow on their inf pile while they figure out what they like and get established.

That might work.  Not sure how that could be done since it's probably not a simple code change, but maybe it is.

 

Maybe instead of the current range of useless at -4, and best at +3.  Then just make the value at -4 and below equal to what DOs are.  (And maybe if DO, what TOs were)

 

Then they're marginally useful even if not replaced, but the old values don't have to be messed with.

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

It was (and still is) definitely the case that XP is split by damage dealt among NON-teamed characters.  Whether it was that way literally on day 1 or throughout beta, I can't say I recall.  It would make sense though that if they HAD started with an even split among all characters who had damaged a mob, it would lead to the exploit you describe and then be solved by implementing a damage-based split.

 

This would also have mattered more back in the early days when it wasn't uncommon to earn XP via street sweeping rather than in teamed-instanced missions.

I suppose it is possible that it used to be an even split between all non-teamed characters, but even that isn’t the behavior the other poster is describing (and is really the exact opposite), but the share of inf/xp for a defeat within a team has always been divided evenly across all members of the team.

[lemming]

12 minutes ago, macskull said:

I suppose it is possible that it used to be an even split between all non-teamed characters, but even that isn’t the behavior the other poster is describing (and is really the exact opposite), but the share of inf/xp for a defeat within a team has always been divided evenly across all members of the team.

Sounds about right.  Iirc, the non-teamed low level would do a couple points of damage to something many levels above them, so they'd get a big multiplier based on level difference.   Pretty sure that's what prompted the change to not give XP to chars lower than five levels below.

[tidge]

Plenty of good advice on how to slot, how to afford to slot, characters. There are so many different way, my only advice would be to read the sincerely written options and try them until you find a method you like.

 

On "shared XP", I am reminded of the many past (literally pointless) arguments over "kill stealing" while street sweeping.

[windezz]

On 2/28/2024 at 12:29 PM, temnix said:

 If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

 

I dunno about shenanigans or time consuming, I just craft some stuff, run a mission or two while they sell, alt tab to youtube, and alt tab back to fill up the AH slots.

1.09 bil inf on hand plus 2 ATO/ 2 winter sets in 3 days from AH, alt is only lvl28 from just soloing.  SO drops are vendor trash, low level generic IOs are cheap and don't degrade, for fresh accounts, buying SOs and maintaining them is a trap. 

 

You'd need experience and some luck to recognize what cheap recipes to buy, what IOs to sell, and when to buy converters in bulk, but even on my first character, it took about 3 weeks of solo play and AH to hit 1 bil inf with a full IO build.  I'm faster now because I can seed my alt with starting fund to buy recipes, and know what to craft for quicker sales/better profits, but AH is still the cheapest and most effective way to generate inf, especially for a fresh account without extra help.

Not to say your effort at grinding is wasted, but if inf is your sole concern, why double the effort for half the return?  There are literal step-by-step guides on using the AH, with specific instructions on what to buy, what to craft, how to convert, and when/how to sell.  And you decide on how much time you invest on it.  No one is stopping you from only crafting and selling 10 IOs per day, and even that would probably get you ready for your dream build quicker than grinding missions.

[GM Crumpet]

3 minutes ago, windezz said:

 

I dunno about shenanigans or time consuming, I just craft some stuff, run a mission or two while they sell, alt tab to youtube, and alt tab back to fill up the AH slots.

1.09 bil inf on hand plus 2 ATO/ 2 winter sets in 3 days from AH, alt is only lvl28 from just soloing.  SO drops are vendor trash, low level generic IOs are cheap and don't degrade, for fresh accounts, buying SOs and maintaining them is a trap. 

 

You'd need experience and some luck to recognize what cheap recipes to buy, what IOs to sell, and when to buy converters in bulk, but even on my first character, it took about 3 weeks of solo play and AH to hit 1 bil inf with a full IO build.  I'm faster now because I can seed my alt with starting fund to buy recipes, and know what to craft for quicker sales/better profits, but AH is still the cheapest and most effective way to generate inf, especially for a fresh account without extra help.

Not to say your effort at grinding is wasted, but if inf is your sole concern, why double the effort for half the return?  There are literal step-by-step guides on using the AH, with specific instructions on what to buy, what to craft, how to convert, and when/how to sell.  And you decide on how much time you invest on it.  No one is stopping you from only crafting and selling 10 IOs per day, and even that would probably get you ready for your dream build quicker than grinding missions.

I stand next to a vendor and know off the top of my head what the vendor will pay, so if I drag a recipe into the AH and it's trash it gets sold at the vendor. Anything a decent chunk above the vendor I list for 10 inf and watch it fly away to the sound of clinking coins.

[windezz]

Just now, GM Crumpet said:

I stand next to a vendor and know off the top of my head what the vendor will pay, so if I drag a recipe into the AH and it's trash it gets sold at the vendor. Anything a decent chunk above the vendor I list for 10 inf and watch it fly away to the sound of clinking coins.

I go by IO and level range, some I'd vendor outright, some I'd save to craft and convert, after a while it's just second nature. 

 

I think some people have this default aversion to AH because the UI looks clunky and there seems to be so much info to take in at once, but whenever I try to introduce a new player in game to the AH, I've always told them to start out slow and small, just try one or two craft/sell to get a feel of it.  I know it works because I've had some of those new players sending tells about how much they just made from selling that one IO.  It's a nice feeling because you know they won't be worrying about affording enhancements anymore.

[BlackSpectre]

When I was a young hero, I strove to get Invention Origin enhancements because they save you a lot of money in the long run. Changing out Single Origin enhancements every 5 levels adds up to a bunch!  I was able to spend a third less on enhancements, because once you slot an IO, you don't have to upgrade it for the rest of the game it still keeps its strength. I thought I was doing great! 

 

Then I learned about power leveling, these days also called farming. Using my trusty fire/kinetics controller I mowed through fire missions with a whole team of players just sitting at the door. I charged those players to be sitters. I give them lots of xp, they give me lots of inf. The nerf bat came down on that, but there were still ways to power level using different damage types.  I made tens of millions doing that.

 

When I got to Homecoming, I re-created my characters. Then I began power leveling/farming again... but this time I discovered posts from some very smart players about how to build the ultimate power leveler. Using that as a framework, I made my own Brute and began farming in the Architect Entertainment. I usually did not bring other players with me, and had no sitters, but I made moola like you wouldn't believe! Not tens of millions... hundreds of millions very quickly!!! 

 

Then I decided to play with the market. The Auction House was a part of the game that I had never really paid attention to. The way to make money there is the same as in real life... buy low, sell high.  Luckily, I had about 300 million inf by then, and I used that to start off. I tried a lot of things. Some bit me, most broke even, and some... well, some were spectacular!  I made about 11 BILLION inf playing the market. I bankrolled my entire Supergroup, giving them at least 4 billion in all. 

 

Now I'm sitting in Comfy City. I don't really want for anything, but I still try to be a little frugal at least. Even a billion can go pretty fast in this game if you don't care how much you spend.

 

I'm not the only one in this situation either. There are MANY players who have built up war chests with vaults full of inf. I only play the market now about once per year, and that's just to replenish what I have spent.

 

If you're ever hating for cash, just yell out in broadcast or local chat and say "I need to upgrade my SOs but I can't afford it. Does anyone have any SOs or inf to spare?" You're likely to get a ton of generous responses. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[Clave Dark 5]

9 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

If you're ever hating for cash, just yell out in broadcast or local chat and say "I need to upgrade my SOs but I can't afford it. Does anyone have any SOs or inf to spare?" You're likely to get a ton of generous responses. 🙂

Every time I see someone in chat spamming to doorsit, I keep pondering making them some offer like "If i give you 50 mill right now, will you stop spamming, and swear off farming for a week?"  XD

Edited March 4 by Clave Dark 5

[GM Crumpet]

1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Every time I see someone in char spamming to doorsit, I keep pondering making them some offer like "If i give you 50 mill right now, will you stop spamming, and swear off farming for a week?"  XD

Or you could invite them to your farm 😛

 

Seriously, my bugbear is AFK farmers. I don't have a problem with it as a thing, I have a problem with it when they exit the mission and clutter up the entrance and constantly spam powers, sometimes for hours. It's so annoying and distracting for everyone else in the area.

[NotsoevilDM]

My 2 inf as a lazy old-timer who is just getting back into the game.

 

My basic approach is just to slot whatever comes along, sell off the stuff I cant slot for whatever DO/SOs I can afford up to level 22.

 

Then start slotting level 25 IOs as I can afford them. Ideally that should keep me going to 50 but I tend to upgrade the IOs as I go (very cost inefficient).

 

At 50, respec to Mids build (if I have made one) and start replacing IOs with sets (again I will start slotting sets before this but it is not cost effective).

 

Finally, whatever approch you decide on, as long as you are having fun then it is the right one for you! 

 

 

[Clave Dark 5]

3 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

Or you could invite them to your farm 😛

I have never had one of my own!  And I've only been on farms twice and was pithingly bored both times.  .

 

Man, we could be out there jumping around and pew-pewing vampires or robots or something, and all ya wanna do is button-mash at tissue paper?!