I grind like a bitch, and I still can't keep my holes filled

[temnix]

I confess: I don't know how to play this game. I would think it should be self-obvious: I learn the basics, I fight, level up and that's it. But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt. A few whites together are already a big problem. With single-origins and Praetorians everywhere I am still challenged by an orange and a few yellows, but that is all right, they are supposed to be powerful. I like danger. But this can't go on. Every time I level up, the single-origins age by a few percentile points. Recently I turned off XP accumulation and ground around King's Row, looking for blues and greens, being careful with whites. It took two evenings to hassle up the money I needed, though I did devote some time to discovering the area, looking at the scenes and so on, without which I would have vomited. After two evenings, when I could not look at another Skull's baseball bat without feeling nauseous, I had finally filled my slots with single-origins and Praetorians. Then I switched XP accumulation back on and got on with the game's stories. The Enhancements are lasting me for now, but I don't have anything to replace them with in a couple of levels. Will I have to repeat that maneuver? I don't care to, and it wouldn't be enough at the rate they are climbing in price and quantity. The selling price of Enhancements is several times lower than the buying price, and I can almost never use the ones enemies drop. Eight times out of ten they are of an incompatible origin, the rest of the time irrelevant or too weak. As it happens, my scrapper only has use for Accuracy, Damage, Defense Buff, a little Recharge and Heal; as it happens, they are the most expensive kind. Nor have I made any original, fun, irrational choices in distributing slots. No, I dutifully slotted my attack powers and defense, with only one slot put in Health, for slightly faster healing.

 

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

[OldManMercy]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/51-the-market/

 

Plenty of good advice in these threads.

 

Go. Trade. Make inf.

[Frozen Burn]

15 minutes ago, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game. I would think it should be self-obvious: I learn the basics, I fight, level up and that's it. But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt. A few whites together are already a big problem. With single-origins and Praetorians everywhere I am still challenged by an orange and a few yellows, but that is all right, they are supposed to be powerful. I like danger. But this can't go on. Every time I level up, the single-origins age by a few percentile points. Recently I turned off XP accumulation and ground around King's Row, looking for blues and greens, being careful with whites. It took two evenings to hassle up the money I needed, though I did devote some time to discovering the area, looking at the scenes and so on, without which I would have vomited. After two evenings, when I could not look at another Skull's baseball bat without feeling nauseous, I had finally filled my slots with single-origins and Praetorians. Then I switched XP accumulation back on and got on with the game's stories. The Enhancements are lasting me for now, but I don't have anything to replace them with in a couple of levels. Will I have to repeat that maneuver? I don't care to, and it wouldn't be enough at the rate they are climbing in price and quantity. The selling price of Enhancements is several times lower than the buying price, and I can almost never use the ones enemies drop. Eight times out of ten they are of an incompatible origin, the rest of the time irrelevant or too weak. As it happens, my scrapper only has use for Accuracy, Damage, Defense Buff, a little Recharge and Heal; as it happens, they are the most expensive kind. Nor have I made any original, fun, irrational choices in distributing slots. No, I dutifully slotted my attack powers and defense, with only one slot put in Health, for slightly faster healing.

 

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

 

Welcome to the game!  Sorry you're feeling frustrated.  The first toon to 50 is always a struggle financially, but there are ways you can help ease the pain.  

 

1.  Teaming 

• Large teams earn more XP and more INF.  Soloing is fun and fine - but teaming will yield more Inf for you.  Also, your teammates will help cover deficiencies in your slotting - they'll help kill, heal you, keep foes from you, etc. 
• Look for Task/Strike Forces or Trials forming in your level range.  Those will generally yield a good chunk of change.  They also give Reward Merits at the end.  If you're worried about out leveling story content, turn of earning XP again and just collect Inf.  
• Look for Giant Monster hunts and join those teams/leagues.  You get reward merits, monster aethers (that can be converted into a mini-pet recipe and sold on the AH for millions), and a chance at a outright drop of a mini-pet recipe.

2.  Sell your drops on the Auction House:

• Those Reward Merits after story arcs, TFs/SFs/Trials - convert those into Boosters or Converters at a Merit Vendor.  Then sell those on the AH - you can get a several million Inf from that alone.
• If you get a random Prismatic Aether drop on mission completion - don't save it for that costume yet - sell it on the AH and you'll get 2.5-3 million Inf.
• Generic IO recipe drops sell more at a vendor than the AH - but craft those yellow and orange ones and sell - you can turn a profit, generally.  You can even try to convert some yourself into nicer ones to sell.
• Orange salvage also sells really well on the AH.  Generally, can get 350k - 500k inf each for it.  

3.  Use those Invention Drops

• Level 25 Common/Generic IOs are 32% bonus which is roughly the same bonus as an even-con SO (33%).  A level 30 Common IO gives 34.8% bonus (roughly a +1 SO).  IOs never expire or get old, so you could slot your level 25-30 common IOs and leave them in until you're 50 and making even more money.  
• Save the useful Set IOs for yourself instead of selling - so you don't have to buy back later.  

I hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[UltraAlt]

43 minutes ago, temnix said:

But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Before the /ah, I had the same kind of issues, but - back then - you gained influence based on how much damage you did. non-damage dealers were scr....er... getting the short end of the stick.

I don't want to lean too heavily on the /ah. Well, I do, but ... I don't want you to feel like you have to.

 

So here are some things that you can do to make things easier.

DFB drops SO's. So run some DFBs.

Sell all your orange salvage for at the very least 350k. If you have to wait, you should be able get more than that.

If you are short in cash, I would say don't even bother with IOs unless you want to low end (since you can't outlevel them - though they can't progress either). These will show up for sale on the market for low enough sometimes that you can get them for a deal if you wait. Also, run the University arc to get one for free.

 

This is a community game, so it isn't out of line in a team to say "does anyone have any tech (or whatever archetype) enhances they aren't going to use?"

I would give all of them of that type that I had to you. I would just be putting them in the /ah for cheap anyway (did I already mention the /ah ... yeah... probably did)

 

54 minutes ago, temnix said:

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt.

 

Why does this thread make we want to suggest using Buttstroke to earn the influence that you need?

 

To me, the most important enhances to SO are the accuracy.

If you need to skimp, skimp on the other ones. (go with the TOs or DOs')

It's cheaper to buy a bunch of insps than it is to buy enhances.

 

Also try to team up as much as possible. Your team is going to help cover you.

No one wants to recruit, but everyone wants a team. Seriously.

If you recruit, you pick the missions. The team assists you.

Sometimes there is a hassle, but it really isn't a hassle very often. If it someone is too much of a hassle? You are team lead, use the boot. if they harass you for booting them, - obviously - I'm going to say /ignore [charactername] 

[Haijinx]

If you are soloing, you'll get plenty of merits, which you can use to buy Covertors and sell at the AH - which will easily buy SOs

 

If teaming, then don't worry about it. By the time you hit 50 you'll have enough to buy them. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

People in my SG never have to buy enhancements. Why? Because I craft level 25 IOs and stock the bins in our base with them. I mention this because a lot of SGs do this. This is why you should be in an SG with other people.

 

Also, I'm fairly certain you've been told about sending an email to Yomo for a free gift of 100 million influence. I don't know if he's doing it anymore though.

 

And finally use merits to buy converters to sell on the market and you'll never have Inf problems.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Frozen Burn said:

The first toon to 50 is always a struggle financially, but there are ways you can help ease the pain.  

Selected for emphasis (the whole post is great!).  It is difficult to stay slotted on your first character until your 30s or 40s so it’s not just you.  I don’t know if that was intentional or not by original devs.

 

you can market, you can ask for a seat at the salmagundi table, there are lots of ways to jump start that first one.  But if you play any 50 at all, inf falls from the sky like molten magma.

[Oubliette_Red]

Look for scheduled Hami raids on your server, Hami-O's can go for 5mil or 35mil+ on the AH, if you run them back to back then you get merits after you've snagged an HO.

 

[biostem]

Fit a few tunnel farms into your rotation.  Use the AE tickets to buy orange salvage.  Sell them on the AH for 300K+ inf.  Use that inf and some common salvage (also bought from the AE vendor as needed), to craft and slot level 25 generic IOs, then stick with those until level 50+.

[KITANYA]

2 hours ago, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game. I would think it should be self-obvious: I learn the basics, I fight, level up and that's it. But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt. A few whites together are already a big problem. With single-origins and Praetorians everywhere I am still challenged by an orange and a few yellows, but that is all right, they are supposed to be powerful. I like danger. But this can't go on. Every time I level up, the single-origins age by a few percentile points. Recently I turned off XP accumulation and ground around King's Row, looking for blues and greens, being careful with whites. It took two evenings to hassle up the money I needed, though I did devote some time to discovering the area, looking at the scenes and so on, without which I would have vomited. After two evenings, when I could not look at another Skull's baseball bat without feeling nauseous, I had finally filled my slots with single-origins and Praetorians. Then I switched XP accumulation back on and got on with the game's stories. The Enhancements are lasting me for now, but I don't have anything to replace them with in a couple of levels. Will I have to repeat that maneuver? I don't care to, and it wouldn't be enough at the rate they are climbing in price and quantity. The selling price of Enhancements is several times lower than the buying price, and I can almost never use the ones enemies drop. Eight times out of ten they are of an incompatible origin, the rest of the time irrelevant or too weak. As it happens, my scrapper only has use for Accuracy, Damage, Defense Buff, a little Recharge and Heal; as it happens, they are the most expensive kind. Nor have I made any original, fun, irrational choices in distributing slots. No, I dutifully slotted my attack powers and defense, with only one slot put in Health, for slightly faster healing.

 

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

 

If you are on Everlasting, i can help you out, just join some teams doing Radio Missions in Peregrine (you will become lvl 49 for those being sidekicked). Get some inf and loot(enhancement/salvage/recipes).

 

Then i can give you extra recipes you can sell on the /ah if needed.

[sbloyd]

Even just selling salvage on the AH can make fat gains over selling it to a vendor.  Orange (rare) salvage only goes for 5k inf to a vendor, but will sell for 400-500k on the auction house.  That can make huge differences in your ability to keep your enhancers going.  Same with Uncommon (yellow) salvage - it sells for much more to your fellow players than to a vendor.  The only thing I wouldn't try to sell on the AH is Dual Origins that you pick up along the way... and possibly not the Single Origins either.

[Braix]

Task Forces give reward merits that you can use at the merit vendor to buy SO enhancements for your level at 1 reward merit each.

Task Force - Unofficial Homecoming Wiki

This lists the task forces, their level, the amount of merits rewarded as well as all other relevant information for the taskforce.  You can do task forces below your level and you will receive rewards (although you will play as if you were of the correct level for the TF)

[Spaghetti Betty]

Nice title!

[sbloyd]

This *does* bring up the question of whether the average player who doesn't know to come here to the forums can manage to "keep their holes filled" in a meaningful way.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Braix said:

Task Forces give reward merits that you can use at the merit vendor to buy SO enhancements for your level at 1 reward merit each.

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, but I would *never* use reward merits to buy SOs...  Much better, IMHO, to buy something like an enh booster then sell those for inf, then use the info to buy SOs...

[MoonSheep]

14 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, but I would *never* use reward merits to buy SOs...  Much better, IMHO, to buy something like an enh booster then sell those for inf, then use the info to buy SOs...

 

i think the takeaway for me is that the person can run a Posi 1 for 40 minutes, buy two enhancement boosters with the merits and get 1-2 million in from the auction house which will buy them plentiful amounts of SOs

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

i think the takeaway for me is that the person can run a Posi 1 for 40 minutes, buy two enhancement boosters with the merits and get 1-2 million in from the auction house which will buy them plentiful amounts of SOs

That is certainly one approach.  Me, personally, I'd use the inf to craft as many level 25 generic IOs as I had components for, since they never expire and will be good enough till you hit 50, then you can run end game content to buy or craft set-IOs and the like.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Selected for emphasis (the whole post is great!).  It is difficult to stay slotted on your first character until your 30s or 40s so it’s not just you.  I don’t know if that was intentional or not by original devs.

 

you can market, you can ask for a seat at the salmagundi table, there are lots of ways to jump start that first one.  But if you play any 50 at all, inf falls from the sky like molten magma.

That said, there are characters that handle running around somewhat unslotted better than others. My first character to fifty on this server was a Radiation/Radiation tank and I got on fairly well with minimal slotting up until I had fight the ballista guy in the Rikti War Zone arcs. (I still won that fight, it was just a slog)

[ZekeStenzland]

While I agree that marketing, generous SGs and sugar alts are useful, I’m going to take a slightly different approach. 
 

Back in the day, before IOs were a thing, when dinosaurs roamed Atlas Park, keeping your character slotted was kind of challenging. My strategy was to be kitted out in TOs no later than L12, in DOs no later than L22, and SOs no later than L32. That was roughly the curve where income matched upgrade expenses. 
 

Where things are easier now is that you additionally get salvage and recipes that didn’t used to drop. You can sell those on the AH for extra cash. Merits are also now a thing that you can convert to something else and sell on AH. See the marketing guides others have posted. 
 

I think some things are working against you now. You’re encouraged to get SOs now at L10. They are so much more expensive than TOs. Also (haven’t verified this yet) my gut tells me it’s far more expensive to use The Convenient Enhancement Upgrade Button every level than it is to just upgrade manually every five levels. 
 

Additionally, the +50% and +100% xp bonuses on some servers means you are leveling faster — and therefore your gearing costs are going up faster. But you aren’t getting similarly increased inf and drops. So you’re relatively worse off than someone on a +0% xp server. 
 

So, your original idea of turning off xp in order to get inf is great. But I don’t think farming zone mobs is the way to go. I’d do mission arcs and the like. Not only do you get merit rewards, but you get bonus drops for mission completion. I turn off xp all the time for my own nefarious purposes. It’s not a big deal. 
 

Assuming you’re blue side, when you look at all the more well-known things to do from say 1-15, there’s…

• DFB up to 4 times for badges and buffs
• Habashy >> Thierry in AP
• Twinshot’s 3 arcs at 5, 10, 15
• 3 safeguard missions and the radio missions to unlock each of them
• Shauna Stockwell >> Eagle Eye in KR
• 4 Hollows mission arcs
• Task Forces Posi1&2 and Synapse

That’s more than enough content there to take 3 or 4 characters from 1-15, let alone one. (You might need to check the wiki so you don’t outlevel a contact or mission.)

 

On my latest toon, I started Twinshot’s arc at L6. When I hit L7, I turned off xp and finished the arc. Turned xp back on, ran a Hollows arc until I hit L8, xp off, finished the arc. Etc. Had more than enough inf to kit myself out in glorious DOs early on. It’s a strategy that works. 

 

So anyway, those are my thoughts on old school ways of how you can afford to kit out a starting character from nothing. There might be other reasons you’re not as effective as you would like to be (wrong powers, wrong slotting choices, mismatch between how you’ve built the toon vs how you play him, etc), but a build forum would be a better place to discuss that probably. 

[Ringo]

If you do run with a lvl 50 team for a bit be aware that the level 50 generic IO recipes you may get as drops sell for over 100k inf at a normal vendor, while they may sell for next to nothing on the Auction House

Edited February 29 by Ringo

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, ZekeStenzland said:

Back in the day, before IOs were a thing, when dinosaurs roamed Atlas Park, keeping your character slotted was kind of challenging. My strategy was to be kitted out in TOs no later than L12, in DOs no later than L22, and SOs no later than L32. That was roughly the curve where income matched upgrade expenses. 

I think part of the problem also is this sense that you *must* be, or strive to be, fully slotted all the time;  It's ok to not have all your slots filled, and instead focus on those areas that are critical...

[macskull]

6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

but - back then - you gained influence based on how much damage you did. non-damage dealers were scr....er... getting the short end of the stick.

This is not the first time I've seen this posted on these forums but it's just as false now as it was the last time I saw it. Inf earned by an individual character for a defeat while teamed has never been based off the amount of damage that character dealt to that enemy.

 

8 hours ago, temnix said:

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

I do think expanding the level range over which non-IO enhancements are effective would go a long way towards alleviating this process because as it stands you're never getting more than 6 levels out of an enhancement. It's the most painful for the first 30 levels which go by relatively quickly, but it's less awful when leveling starts to slow way down past that point. That being said, here are some potential alternatives:

• Teaming can help fill the gaps in your existing build and make things a little easier. Inf tends to come in faster when you're defeating more things faster, so it helps out there too.
• Look on the auction house for the enhancements you need - chances are decent that someone threw something you need up there for cheaper than you'd get it at a vendor.
• Use the tips and tricks others in here have talked about to earn inf for buying the enhancements. When the enhancement upgrade feature was added to the game one of the developers stated that considering SOs (which are more expensive) are the new normal for pretty much all levels of play, players are expected to have to interface with the auction house to make some inf if they want to keep all their enhancements current.

Edited February 29 by macskull

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game.

it is a learning curve.  i played on live, not from the beginning, but for years.  then i found HC about a year after it went public.  today i rebuilt a dark dark dom i had not touched in over a year.  now, i played perma doms on live.  but not a lot, i just had some.  same here.  well, i make my build in mids, open the thing up to respec.  i swear, the build that was on there looked horrid to me.  i am sure it was perma dom, but that is about it.  now, my new build may look like trash to some people.  no defenses at all.  but i just ran it in a market crash, a speed aeon, a kill most +4 itf, and a baf.  i like it.  

 

just keep playing and learning.   

 

also, i think yomo is still giving away 100 million to anyone that ask.  his thread is in general on the first page or two...

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

• Teaming can help fill the gaps in your existing build and make things a little easier. Inf tends to come in faster when you're defeating more things faster, so it helps out there too.

You can disable earning XP and join a high level team for a bit, just for the inf and drops and such. No one will mind, and they can be a lot of fun.  That way you get all the drop benefits of a high level, fast moving team, but not level out of the stories and missions you'd prefer to do. Unless you do want to level fast, in which case a high level team will be great to earn XP on, too.

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, macskull said:

This is not the first time I've seen this posted on these forums but it's just as false now as it was the last time I saw it. Inf earned by an individual character for a defeat while teamed has never been based off the amount of damage that character dealt to that enemy.

 

Yes, it was.

The change occurred sometime around when Wentworths was added to the game.

I had an empathy defender and that could hardly get 1/2 half around on the xp bar when other characters that weren't sidekicked were leveling multiple times during a mission.

I had to heal most of the time to keep the rest of the team alive and was able to do very little on the attack side if I wanted to keep the team from falling.

The xp given did change from damage done per character (which we can see the history for doing so in games such as AD&D) to equally divided among the members of the team. The amount of influence you gained was always directly related to xp gain.

 

"If you are grouped with a higher level person and receive no xp for overcoming foes, then you also will not receive any invention, salvage, recipe or inspiration drops." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Patch_Notes/2007-05-01

 

 

 

Edited February 29 by UltraAlt