Hosting Hardships and Happiness - Part 2

[Diantane]

Since I'm not getting a well rounded team most of the time, I diagnosed the problem and think another guide would be helpful. Like when I ask for a DPS player, which stands for (Damage Per Second), but refers to an AT that does heavy damage (Scrapper, Brute, Stalker, Blaster. Sentinel, PB, WS, Soldier and Widow). I asked for DPS last night (and even DAMAGE) and ended up with 5 trollers. This just doesn't work (did Frostfire with 5 trollers once, and it took us 2.5 hours to complete the mission). We ended up not getting that far last night. I ran into a room while cloaked, full of baddies and the team didn't follow. Instead they figured they could skip that room and took the elevator upstairs. This team seemed to be filled with children and I chose not to lead them anymore and logged.

 

I'm sure that you would love  to level your controller, but filling up a team with them will level you very slowly. The very most controllers you want on a team is two, but preferably just one that is experienced with the game. Then a healer, defender, dedicated tank (takes the alpha and pulls critters from weaker players) and the rest DPS. That would be a well rounded team and  would steamroll through missions.

 

Sometimes the team will get wiped over and over again. The problem here is the player, not the archetype.  I have had teams that steamrolled through the same mission @ +3 or 4 so I know that it is possible. Most players will quit the team to look for an easier way to level/play. But a few stay and fight to complete the mission. Thank god there are true warriors still playing. Even a defender can be a "warrior." I have taken the alpha (the first to run in and agro the group), with Sentinels and Defenders (and do this over and over throughout every mission).  It's because of my high level of gaming experience just like so many others. 

 

The funny thing is that many players think they can level faster on an easier team (+0 or 1) I have even seen teams that started Frostfire @ +0. Frostfire, himself would be "gray" in the end. This would be extremely boring to me. If they stayed with my team, they would be a much higher level when we're done. I usually start a brand new character and 6 to 7 hours of fun later I'm in my low to mid 30's just doing arcs.

[BurtHutt]

I'm more curious as to how the team was taking on the bad guys. A team of controllers should be fine in that scenario if you used the proper strategery! 

 

I only team and so many teams are hot messes in regards to strategy but we get through because the toons are pretty powerful now (cheaper IOs, incarnates, better builders etc). Sometimes it's a challenge at lower levels because we don't have all of the upgrades so you need to pull, divide and conquer and so on. Most teams just blitz the enemy.

 

 

[Ghost]

If you’re forming the team, and are down to just needing certain types of players (heals/tank/holds/DPS), you could always ask for people to tell you what type of toon they are on before you send an invite.

 

Just a suggestion.

[DougGraves]

40 minutes ago, Diantane said:

I asked for DPS last night (and even DAMAGE) and ended up with 5 trollers. This just doesn't work (did Frostfire with 5 trollers once, and it took us 2.5 hours to complete the mission). We ended up not getting that far last night. I ran into a room while cloaked, full of baddies and the team didn't follow. Instead they figured they could skip that room and took the elevator upstairs. This team seemed to be filled with children and I chose not to lead them anymore and logged.

 

So you were the leader on that team.

 

It must be the team I was on.  It was set to +3.  We did well with everyone together, but I think at every branch in the hallway it split up until there was no more than 3 people together.  No one seemed to be reading the chat.

Edited March 1 by DougGraves

[ZemX]

39 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

It must be the team I was on.  It was set to +3.  We did well with everyone together, but I think at every branch in the hallway it split up until there was no more than 3 people together.  No one seemed to be reading the chat.

 

How can you be sure that was the same team?  You just described about 85% of all PuGs right there. 🤪

[DougGraves]

16 minutes ago, ZemX said:

How can you be sure that was the same team?  You just described about 85% of all PuGs right there. 🤪

 

because the leader made the comment "did Frostfire with 5 trollers once, and it took us 2.5 hours to complete the mission" on the team.

 

Otherwise it would just sound like a normal PUG

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Diantane said:

Since I'm not getting a well rounded team most of the time, I diagnosed the problem and think another guide would be helpful. Like when I ask for a DPS player, which stands for (Damage Per Second), but refers to an AT that does heavy damage (Scrapper, Brute, Stalker, Blaster. Sentinel, PB, WS, Soldier and Widow). I asked for DPS last night (and even DAMAGE) and ended up with 5 trollers. This just doesn't work (did Frostfire with 5 trollers once, and it took us 2.5 hours to complete the mission). We ended up not getting that far last night. I ran into a room while cloaked, full of baddies and the team didn't follow. Instead they figured they could skip that room and took the elevator upstairs. This team seemed to be filled with children and I chose not to lead them anymore and logged.

 

I'm sure that you would love  to level your controller, but filling up a team with them will level you very slowly. The very most controllers you want on a team is two, but preferably just one that is experienced with the game. Then a healer, defender, dedicated tank (takes the alpha and pulls critters from weaker players) and the rest DPS. That would be a well rounded team and  would steamroll through missions.

 

Sometimes the team will get wiped over and over again. The problem here is the player, not the archetype.  I have had teams that steamrolled through the same mission @ +3 or 4 so I know that it is possible. Most players will quit the team to look for an easier way to level/play. But a few stay and fight to complete the mission. Thank god there are true warriors still playing. Even a defender can be a "warrior." I have taken the alpha (the first to run in and agro the group), with Sentinels and Defenders (and do this over and over throughout every mission).  It's because of my high level of gaming experience just like so many others. 

 

The funny thing is that many players think they can level faster on an easier team (+0 or 1) I have even seen teams that started Frostfire @ +0. Frostfire, himself would be "gray" in the end. This would be extremely boring to me. If they stayed with my team, they would be a much higher level when we're done. I usually start a brand new character and 6 to 7 hours of fun later I'm in my low to mid 30's just doing arcs.

 

As a TEAM LEADER when someone send you a tell that they can join, you need to ask what their AT is, if it's not what you are looking for. You sent the call out for a team, so it's your responsiblity as the TEAM LEADER to check that. Or get upset when folks don't bring a DPS AT.

 

EDIT: Also you need to communicate with the team in chat to keep the team together. Being team leader is not just forming the team.

Edited March 1 by golstat2003

[Ghost]

Im curious, did you ask if any of the trollers could switch?

What about you - what kind of AT were you on?

I know if I found myself on a team with 5 trollers…..

First I would cringe

Next I would check to see how much time I had

If the leader didn’t speak up, I would ask if any would be willing to switch.

Finally, I would switch to DPS (regardless of what I was on)
 

[Ukase]

So, I'm just going to say this out loud. Two things can lead to disappointment. Unrealized expectations and Unrealistic expectations. 

When a player leads a team for something as straightforward as Frostfire, all the non-leaders are there to do one primary thing - complete the mission.  Some make a beeline for keystone and the altars to get to Frostfire ASAP, and some want to kill every single npc they see. You're clearly someone who wants to run point, and you want the team to stick together. You have a method, like most of us. Some leaders want to always go left whenever there's a path that diverges into different directions. Some like to go right. 

Here's what I think may be frustrating you - not every reads chat. Also, not everyone agrees with the choices a leader makes. Most of us will go along, and as soon as the mission is over, without telling you the real reason why - we leave the team. I left your team a couple of days ago because you seemed to think we were children who needed to be told what to do. You're in your sg base, presumably training, meanwhile your team is running your mission. You weren't there, and yet you expected PUGs who've never teamed with you to go the same path you would. I think that's being unreasonable. In my defense, (if I need one) I came late; the mission was half over. I knew where the team was - because on my map, I saw where there was still fog, and where there wasn't. 
Now, I get that lower level players and even some incarnates LOVE killing every thing on every map. That is what they are there to do, and that's great. But dude, if you're not even on the map, and I've never teamed with you before, I have no way of knowing how you want to do anything. 

You're having unrealistic expectations. Communicate that you want people to stick together. Allow for times in between missions for people to train. 

Use team inspirations before tough fights. Use ATT if some of the team has gone the wrong way. Use macros to communicate more quickly if you think it will help. Crack jokes. Don't bark orders or give instructions unless it's for a badge. Make suggestions. Teams in CoH are not a benevolent dictatorship, they are a collaborative effort. But, that's just my opinion, and opinions vary. 

[cranebump]

What exactly does “a well-rounded team” mean to you? And then this: if you’re forming the team, then isn’t the burden of team composition on you? If you don’t want multiple trollers, then make that clear in jour recruiting (though it should be a given that if each of the trollers had completely different powersets, your “well-rounded” diversity could be inherent in that).
 

I dunno. I think if I’m consistently having some sort of issues with teams that I run, my first diagnostic step would be to look in the mirror.

[Diantane]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:32 PM, BurtHutt said:

I'm more curious as to how the team was taking on the bad guys. A team of controllers should be fine in that scenario if you used the proper strategery! 

 

I only team and so many teams are hot messes in regards to strategy but we get through because the toons are pretty powerful now (cheaper IOs, incarnates, better builders etc). Sometimes it's a challenge at lower levels because we don't have all of the upgrades so you need to pull, divide and conquer and so on. Most teams just blitz the enemy.

 

 

Only one controller was a vet. The rest were low level (less than 12). They just can't do much damage so that greatly extends the time it takes to complete a +4 Frostfire.

[Diantane]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:37 PM, Ghost said:

If you’re forming the team, and are down to just needing certain types of players (heals/tank/holds/DPS), you could always ask for people to tell you what type of toon they are on before you send an invite.

 

Just a suggestion.

Now why didn't I think of that?? Thank you for that suggestion.

[Diantane]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:39 PM, DougGraves said:

 

So you were the leader on that team.

 

It must be the team I was on.  It was set to +3.  We did well with everyone together, but I think at every branch in the hallway it split up until there was no more than 3 people together.  No one seemed to be reading the chat.

Yep, that was the one. I've hosted the Flux arc at +3 for about two years. It allows the time the team needs to become acclimated to the higher level foes so raising up to +4 Frostfire, won't be that much more of a challenge. Unless the team is made up with long time players, splitting up the team usually leads to disaster. 

[Diantane]

On 3/1/2024 at 2:42 PM, golstat2003 said:

 

As a TEAM LEADER when someone send you a tell that they can join, you need to ask what their AT is, if it's not what you are looking for. You sent the call out for a team, so it's your responsiblity as the TEAM LEADER to check that. Or get upset when folks don't bring a DPS AT.

 

EDIT: Also you need to communicate with the team in chat to keep the team together. Being team leader is not just forming the team.

Thank you too!

[Diantane]

8 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, I'm just going to say this out loud. Two things can lead to disappointment. Unrealized expectations and Unrealistic expectations. 

When a player leads a team for something as straightforward as Frostfire, all the non-leaders are there to do one primary thing - complete the mission.  Some make a beeline for keystone and the altars to get to Frostfire ASAP, and some want to kill every single npc they see. You're clearly someone who wants to run point, and you want the team to stick together. You have a method, like most of us. Some leaders want to always go left whenever there's a path that diverges into different directions. Some like to go right. 

Here's what I think may be frustrating you - not every reads chat. Also, not everyone agrees with the choices a leader makes. Most of us will go along, and as soon as the mission is over, without telling you the real reason why - we leave the team. I left your team a couple of days ago because you seemed to think we were children who needed to be told what to do. You're in your sg base, presumably training, meanwhile your team is running your mission. You weren't there, and yet you expected PUGs who've never teamed with you to go the same path you would. I think that's being unreasonable. In my defense, (if I need one) I came late; the mission was half over. I knew where the team was - because on my map, I saw where there was still fog, and where there wasn't. 
Now, I get that lower level players and even some incarnates LOVE killing every thing on every map. That is what they are there to do, and that's great. But dude, if you're not even on the map, and I've never teamed with you before, I have no way of knowing how you want to do anything. 

You're having unrealistic expectations. Communicate that you want people to stick together. Allow for times in between missions for people to train. 

Use team inspirations before tough fights. Use ATT if some of the team has gone the wrong way. Use macros to communicate more quickly if you think it will help. Crack jokes. Don't bark orders or give instructions unless it's for a badge. Make suggestions. Teams in CoH are not a benevolent dictatorship, they are a collaborative effort. But, that's just my opinion, and opinions vary. 

 When I host a team I usually explain the storyline and tell the team about problems that lie ahead, Today while doing the Striga Isles arcs, we were all laughing together and having a really good time. On the Agent Watkins arc that starts in Steel, When we do the first building mission, I explain quite a lot to everyone. But when we enter the last room that has well over a hundred Freakshows, I let them find out on their own what is about to happen, but I do tell them that I know how to beat this room. That they only have to ask for my help. They usually go on in, but when the team wipes and wipes again, they say something like, "What were you saying about how to beat this room?" 

[Diantane]

It seems that most everyone had the answer to correct my issue about trying to put together a well rounded team by asking them their AT. I only wish I posted this four years ago - lol. 

[Enchantica]

24 minutes ago, Diantane said:

Only one controller was a vet. The rest were low level (less than 12). They just can't do much damage so that greatly extends the time it takes to complete a +4 Frostfire.

Well if you wanted to finish the mission and were not willing to get the archtypes needed for +4 frostfire. Then don't do +4 frostfire.  ( No blame ) but seems like this is on the leader. Seems like something an experienced player might consider.  

[Enchantica]

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

So, I'm just going to say this out loud. Two things can lead to disappointment. Unrealized expectations and Unrealistic expectations. 

When a player leads a team for something as straightforward as Frostfire, all the non-leaders are there to do one primary thing - complete the mission.  Some make a beeline for keystone and the altars to get to Frostfire ASAP, and some want to kill every single npc they see. You're clearly someone who wants to run point, and you want the team to stick together. You have a method, like most of us. Some leaders want to always go left whenever there's a path that diverges into different directions. Some like to go right. 

Here's what I think may be frustrating you - not every reads chat. Also, not everyone agrees with the choices a leader makes. Most of us will go along, and as soon as the mission is over, without telling you the real reason why - we leave the team. I left your team a couple of days ago because you seemed to think we were children who needed to be told what to do. You're in your sg base, presumably training, meanwhile your team is running your mission. You weren't there, and yet you expected PUGs who've never teamed with you to go the same path you would. I think that's being unreasonable. In my defense, (if I need one) I came late; the mission was half over. I knew where the team was - because on my map, I saw where there was still fog, and where there wasn't. 
Now, I get that lower level players and even some incarnates LOVE killing every thing on every map. That is what they are there to do, and that's great. But dude, if you're not even on the map, and I've never teamed with you before, I have no way of knowing how you want to do anything. 

You're having unrealistic expectations. Communicate that you want people to stick together. Allow for times in between missions for people to train. 

Use team inspirations before tough fights. Use ATT if some of the team has gone the wrong way. Use macros to communicate more quickly if you think it will help. Crack jokes. Don't bark orders or give instructions unless it's for a badge. Make suggestions. Teams in CoH are not a benevolent dictatorship, they are a collaborative effort. But, that's just my opinion, and opinions vary. 

After reading your post. I think you should have led the team! If the leader was just sitting in the sg base and not even on the map.... that says it all. very funny

[Ukase]

The leader was likely training/slotting. It's a time saving technique, really. You use your base TP, your trainer and enhancement vendor are typically right next to each other very close to the base entrance/exit. Some levels are harder to figure out which powers, which slots, etc. 

I don't know how long the mission was being run before I joined, but it was at least a couple of minutes before the leader showed up. 

And while I can lead, I don't particularly enjoy the recruitment. I'd like to convey certain things, but it's too much information for most folks, they just want to team. But there are some folks who want to know what ATs are already there, what level is the mission, what's the difficulty, is it a cave map, killing most or speeding through - many are reasonable things to know, but problematic to convey sometimes. And the waiting...oh, I really need to work on my patience, because the older I get, the less I have. 

[Enchantica]

58 minutes ago, Ukase said:

The leader was likely training/slotting. It's a time saving technique, really. You use your base TP, your trainer and enhancement vendor are typically right next to each other very close to the base entrance/exit. Some levels are harder to figure out which powers, which slots, etc. 

I don't know how long the mission was being run before I joined, but it was at least a couple of minutes before the leader showed up. 

And while I can lead, I don't particularly enjoy the recruitment. I'd like to convey certain things, but it's too much information for most folks, they just want to team. But there are some folks who want to know what ATs are already there, what level is the mission, what's the difficulty, is it a cave map, killing most or speeding through - many are reasonable things to know, but problematic to convey sometimes. And the waiting...oh, I really need to work on my patience, because the older I get, the less I have. 

I get it. I was just agreeing with you. I bet the problem was not your team it was your leader.  " if the instructions are clearly given and understood failure is the fault of the solider. However, if the instructions ARE not clearly given the fault lies WITH THE LEADER alone " Sun Tsu - the Art of War  (I am paraphrasing)

[Enchantica]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

The leader was likely training/slotting. It's a time saving technique, really. You use your base TP, your trainer and enhancement vendor are typically right next to each other very close to the base entrance/exit. Some levels are harder to figure out which powers, which slots, etc. 

I don't know how long the mission was being run before I joined, but it was at least a couple of minutes before the leader showed up. 

And while I can lead, I don't particularly enjoy the recruitment. I'd like to convey certain things, but it's too much information for most folks, they just want to team. But there are some folks who want to know what ATs are already there, what level is the mission, what's the difficulty, is it a cave map, killing most or speeding through - many are reasonable things to know, but problematic to convey sometimes. And the waiting...oh, I really need to work on my patience, because the older I get, the less I have. 

Yeah, well do your leveling and slotting Before or AFTER the mission not during.  I am sure D- day would have failed if a bunch of people said" yeah I am going to sit in the sg base.. the rest of you climb the cliffs of pointe du hoc.  lol

[Ironblade]

On 3/1/2024 at 1:00 PM, Diantane said:

I'm sure that you would love  to level your controller, but filling up a team with them will level you very slowly. The very most controllers you want on a team is two, but preferably just one that is experienced with the game.

 

This is really a situational thing.  A team of 8 controllers would be extremely powerful and get through enemies quickly - AFTER they get their pets.  By then, they'll have a good array of powers, probably some IO's and, as noted, their pets which are their main source of damage.

 

But you're talking about Frostfire which, as I recall, is in the 12-15 range?  So if people are actually in that range, it's pretty rough no matter what AT's you have.  For this reason, I would never turn up the difficulty.  I do Positron and Synapse at base difficulty.  I only go to +1 once we reach the Penny Yin TF which is 20-25.  By the time you're ready for the ITF, sure, plenty of teams can handle +4.  But Frostfire?  Ouch.

[Diantane]

On 3/3/2024 at 9:43 PM, Ironblade said:

 

This is really a situational thing.  A team of 8 controllers would be extremely powerful and get through enemies quickly - AFTER they get their pets.  By then, they'll have a good array of powers, probably some IO's and, as noted, their pets which are their main source of damage.

 

But you're talking about Frostfire which, as I recall, is in the 12-15 range?  So if people are actually in that range, it's pretty rough no matter what AT's you have.  For this reason, I would never turn up the difficulty.  I do Positron and Synapse at base difficulty.  I only go to +1 once we reach the Penny Yin TF which is 20-25.  By the time you're ready for the ITF, sure, plenty of teams can handle +4.  But Frostfire?  Ouch.

 

Doing Frostfire at +4 allows a player at level 14  to advance to 19 in less than an hour + time for wipes. A wipe happens mostly because the PUG team is full of inexperienced players. They would normally play at +0 but all of them want to be 19 fast.  After the first hour of players quitting and re-recruiting, and then playing until they level, it becomes easier. After they level twice, everything gets very easy and fast. I have done Frostfire at no difficulty before and it was dead boring (never again).

 

To make it easier for the players, we do the first two indoor missions at +1, then Flux at +3. So Frostfire at +4 is just a little harder.