High level enemy group revamps

[Eiko-chan]

Where am I supposed to discuss this topic? Why the hell is the Council hard now? Who's fucking idea was this and why is it just allowed to happen!? 

[Krimson]

To put it simply, in this superhero game, any time a player begins to feel super, it must be stopped. If anyone in this game feels empowered, they are doing something wrong which must be fixed.

[Apogee]

If you don't  like the new Council, beware the new CoT as well

[biostem]

32 minutes ago, Eiko-chan said:

Where am I supposed to discuss this topic? Why the hell is the Council hard now? Who's fucking idea was this and why is it just allowed to happen!? 

Improvise.  Adapt.  Overcome.

[Eiko-chan]

6 minutes ago, Apogee said:

If you don't  like the new Council, beware the new CoT as well

Yeah, I don't like them either. This is all stupid bullshit. I really wish video games would just let me have fun and be powerful and stop trying to cater only to the dopamine-rush people. I don't even get that! 

[Shenanigunner]

I hear Snarky muttering, "Re-vamp?"

[Shenanigunner]

11 minutes ago, Krimson said:

To put it simply, in this superhero game, any time a player begins to feel super, it must be stopped. If anyone in this game feels empowered, they are doing something wrong which must be fixed.

 

The balance of snark to truth is elegant here. As someone who simply can't grasp the "fun" of building an invincible Fifty-'leven and just stomping ants forevermore, I'll lean towards the truth.

[Krimson]

5 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

The balance of snark to truth is elegant here. As someone who simply can't grasp the "fun" of building an invincible Fifty-'leven and just stomping ants forevermore, I'll lean towards the truth.

If I want to struggle with every mob every time, there are plenty of other games to play that don't even involve superheroes. I question whether the dev team even LIKES superheroes. Maybe they want the game to be more like Secret World?

[Shenanigunner]

23 minutes ago, Krimson said:

If I want to struggle with every mob every time, there are plenty of other games to play that don't even involve superheroes. I question whether the dev team even LIKES superheroes. Maybe they want the game to be more like Secret World?

 

I'll concede no game should be a unending grind. (I have yet to play more than about fifteen minutes in Borderlands Ultra Vault Hunter mode; every small mob takes all your ammo and resources to defeat.) But if you just want to cruise around firing off level-50 Burn on level-10 mobs in Perez (something I find insanely fun when passing through... but only for about two minutes)— I dunno. Kinda edges into "why play at all."

[biostem]

The only things I dislike about the Council revamp are the self-rezzers and how it seems to sometimes produce groups that are all galaxy troops.  If you were used to ROFL-stomping Council and can't now, then maybe you need to revisit your build or tactics... 

[Eiko-chan]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

The only things I dislike about the Council revamp are the self-rezzers and how it seems to sometimes produce groups that are all galaxy troops.  If you were used to ROFL-stomping Council and can't now, then maybe you need to revisit your build or tactics... 

Not everyone plays the game exclusively at level 50. Some of us play the game to do the level climb and don't just wait for Mapserver events to power-level every character into TFs and iTrails. 
But this isn't an issue of skill. I have builds that solo AVs and +4/x8. The issue is the Council having more AoEs, more knockback, and more control than any enemy group ever had before. If I am preferring to face Arachnos with a build that doesn't have inherent mez protection, something has gone wrong in the design.

Edited May 8 by Eiko-chan

[Krimson]

I personally do not have a problem with the mobs. And the Dev team will probably have to 'adjust' the Giant Monsters again because I can still solo some of them. Once in a while, it is nice to just be able to feel super, though I do realize that is badwrongfun to be powerful. Oh well, the easiest solution would be to ban me and then I wouldn't mention it ever again.

[biostem]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:03 PM, Eiko-chan said:

Not everyone plays the game exclusively at level 50. Some of us play the game to do the level climb and don't just wait for Mapserver events to power-level every character into TFs and iTrails. 
But this isn't an issue of skill. I have builds that solo AVs and +4/x8. The issue is the Council having more AoEs, more knockback, and more control than any enemy group ever had before. If I am preferring to face Arachnos with a build that doesn't have inherent mez protection, something has gone wrong in the design.

Funny, because I tend to have more trouble with Arachnos, especially if I'm not playing a character with any +perception abilities.  Regardless, I do not PL my chars to 50, and frequently take part in sub-50 content.  In fact, given my altitis, I actually don't have that many level 50 characters, but when I do join a higher level team, I try to work with the team and adapt to whatever the game throws at us, including the revamped Council.

Edited May 10 by biostem

[FupDup]

My take is that I think it's entirely fine to make some of the easier groups be made less easy, but there also is a point where the dial might be turned a little further than it needed to be. With the Council specifically, I don't like how they got turned into bullet sponges which results in drastically slower solo gameplay. 

 

I get that people have complained about the game being too fast, but those complaints are made in the context of team play. These changes make team play slightly slower but still not too bad, but solo play on the other hand got affected much more drastically. I still wish that there was some kind of scaling solution that takes into account team size such that changes that amount to a speedbump for teams don't amount to slogging through wet concrete for solo. 

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, FupDup said:

These changes make team play slightly slower but still not too bad, but solo play on the other hand got affected much more drastically. I still wish that there was some kind of scaling solution that takes into account team size such that changes that amount to a speedbump for teams don't amount to slogging through wet concrete for solo. 

I wonder if they could add 5th Column into the rotation, yet have them retain the old mob types & abilities, (obviously this would only work for things like radio missions).  Alternatively, maybe have the new mobs *only* appear on +4 difficulty or something...

[Yomo Kimyata]

I feel that everyone has already forgotten about the Crey revamp.  Next to that, the Council was a rounding error.

 

Every class needs to have a shortest kid, and the devs here have made it very clear that periodically they are going to take that shortest kid and stretch out their shins a few inches (or feet) so that some other kid will be the shortest.  they do that with ATs, with various powers, with enemy groups.  The power inflation over the past few years has been remarkable, and the reason people bitch about it is because when your specific wants aren't the ones boosted, suddenly you are the short kid and even though you are six foot seven you are going to bitch because you are the shortest.

 

But nowadays I tend to use Malta as my level 50 chump opponents.  Until they get buffed.

[Erratic1]

45 minutes ago, Krimson said:

If I want to struggle with every mob every time, there are plenty of other games to play that don't even involve superheroes. I question whether the dev team even LIKES superheroes. Maybe they want the game to be more like Secret World?

 

Oh my, one can dream The Secret World would get fresh blood and development.

 

Besides, in The Secret World/Secret World Legends you could always go back to New England and casually own things...something you would know if you had suitably exposed yourself over time to many microdoses of The Filth like Dr. Klein had.

[Eiko-chan]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

I wonder if they could add 5th Column into the rotation, yet have them retain the old mob types & abilities, (obviously this would only work for things like radio missions).  Alternatively, maybe have the new mobs *only* appear on +4 difficulty or something...

Having the revamped mobs only spawn at levels 50+ would probably be a fairly elegant solution that avoids just rolling this back and stop messing with things that aren't broken.
Though I do hope my tone is conveyed clearly enough to show my real feelings.

[Krimson]

14 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Oh my, one can dream The Secret World would get fresh blood and development.

 

Besides, in The Secret World/Secret World Legends you could always go back to New England and casually own things...something you would know if you had suitably exposed yourself over time to many microdoses of The Filth like Dr. Klein had.

The major difference is you EXPECT to be at a disadvantage in Secret World. I never expected to feel super or powerful in that game. I didn't care for Legends, but the first iteration felt like playing a Stephen King novel.

[Eiko-chan]

My favourite part about The Secret World was that I could be the healer by shooting things.

[Lunar Ronin]

Just now, Eiko-chan said:

My favourite part about The Secret World was that I could be the healer by shooting things.

 

Yep, that and Star Wars: The Old Republic are great for that.  "I'm shooting you out of kindness."

[Eiko-chan]

Just now, Lunar Ronin said:

 

Yep, that and Star Wars: The Old Republic are great for that.  "I'm shooting you out of kindness."

Oh no, in The Secret World, I shot the enemy and healed the tank with Assault Rifle, which let you have a primary and secondary target. Not SWTOR's healing bullets.

[Erratic1]

20 minutes ago, Krimson said:

The major difference is you EXPECT to be at a disadvantage in Secret World. I never expected to feel super or powerful in that game. I didn't care for Legends, but the first iteration felt like playing a Stephen King novel.

 

Disadvantage...of being unkillable since the Machine would bring you back. Admittedly, Lilith comes up with a wickedly warped way of dealing with that. I hated her but I have to admit, it was brilliant.

 

Darn I miss that game.

[Glacier Peak]

Have you tried teaming? It improves a character's strengths and covers their weaknesses. Almost like the game was designed with that in mind. 

[Ukase]

So, I want to the OP to know I've asked questions like this before. They were met with derision, and really, outright hostility. So much so, I took it to DMs with a couple of them. I got so angry that a full 6 months of no communication later or so...maybe it was 3, I sent a final DM telling this other player to take a flying F. Or some words to that effect. 
It cost me a friend. Kind of like two, really. But that wasn't my choice to make. Their loss. No more stale jokes from me!

I was angry. I'm not so angry now. The game is still here, and I can cede the fact that those that can program for HC for free are going to have a lot more stroke to implement the things they want. I've no idea what game they were playing during the shut down, but I think these folks genuinely believe it is in the game's best interest to pursue this path. I don't think they did it just to screw with me specifically. (they may be working on that in the future, lol) 

I do think they are not really grasping what the community wants - at least, not as far as hard mode stuff goes. But - I'm just one player getting feedback here and there. I've heard lots of good stuff, as well as bad. 
Yes - I do concede that there are probably 200-300 players that LOVE the hard mode stuff. And I am kind of extrapolating that, so I could be way off, over or under. I just want to say that I know some folks absolutely love it. And it was done super well, really! I would only ever do it for the badge. It's interesting, but it's not fun for me. The weird voice during the Kong fight is super creepy and makes the entire death fest almost worthwhile. If I ever have to rez and put toggles on - the fun has gone for me. But I am one player that's just easily annoyed about something so insignificant as re-toggling. Maybe if they tweak things so toggles are always on, except when your dead - or just make them auto powers that cost endurance so we don't even have to have them in our tray...well, then I'll be singing praises. Until the next time they bug me, lol. (It's also worth disclosing that a good team makes it go from a deathfest to a really enjoyable experience. I should thank them publicly, but I don't want their rep besmirched for having associated with this mediocre ice blaster. )

Still, even though I don't agree with everything, I can still acknowledge the time, effort - and well, a super amount of creativity has gone into these changes. 

I've learned if I can't change things, I have to change my mind set about them. If I keep letting things out of my control piss me off, it's not going to do anything for me or anyone else. Yes, I still have a short fuse. But, I can kind of step back more easily now than I could in the past. Not sure why. Probably because I'm now sharing my time with other games that give me a different perspective. If you thought HC did some crazy stuff, take a look at most every other game. All these devs do things that don't make any sense to half the players that pay to play them. Here, at least we don't have to pay a thing.