Lots of trademark abuse lately

[ZacKing]

Not sure about anyone else, but I've been seeing a whole lot of people using trademarked names, words and costumes of late.  For those who don't know, the words Jedi and Sith are trademarked by Lucasfilm/Disney, so no, despite protestations to the contrary, you can't have a character named Jedi Fred or Darth Bob in the game with a costume that's spot on for Obi Wan Kenobi or Darth Maul with a profile that talks about your prowess with the force.  You also can't be dressed up like Batman or the Flash or Superman and say your SS/INV tank with a profile that mentions how you're from Krypton is "cosplaying so it's ok". 

 

I know hardly anyone reads the CoC or ToS when they agree to create an account and sign in.  There's been a lot of this lately.  I feel bad for the GMs who must be getting flooded with tickets over it.  Maybe the parts about not violating copyrights and trademarks needs to be made more prominent?

 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

They should have a sign somewhere in the character creator, that players can't miss, that explains to people that if the name/backstory/costume appears to be, or appears similar to, a trademarked character then their account could be perma-banned.

 

It's not Homecoming's fault that the school system has failed so utterly that most people don't even understand "Why can't I just Superman, bruh?"

[cranebump]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:02 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

It's not Homecoming's fault that the school system has failed so utterly that most people don't even understand "Why can't I just Superman, bruh?"

Well, you can teach intellectual property and all that. But when you're dealing with a huge swath of folks whose world has always included high-speed internet and endless media choices via the multiple screens through which they've experienced the world (not to mention various apps that do a lot of mental work for you), it's no wonder the concept doesn't register. Then again, a LOT of things don't register, now that our attention spans have dwindled to near zero.

Edited May 31 by cranebump

[High_Beam]

Also don't forget the delusional lot who believe that nobody should be allowed to own their ideas.

[Player2]

24 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Not sure about anyone else, but I've been seeing a whole lot of people using trademarked names, words and costumes of late.  For those who don't know, the words Jedi and Sith are trademarked by Lucasfilm/Disney, so no, despite protestations to the contrary, you can't have a character named Jedi Fred or Darth Bob in the game with a costume that's spot on for Obi Wan Kenobi or Darth Maul with a profile that talks about your prowess with the force.  You also can't be dressed up like Batman or the Flash or Superman and say your SS/INV tank with a profile that mentions how you're from Krypton is "cosplaying so it's ok". 

 

 

https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/what-trademark#:~:text=A common misconception is that,your specific goods or services.

 

Quote

A common misconception is that having a trademark means you legally own a particular word or phrase and can prevent others from using it. However, you don’t have rights to the word or phrase in general, only to how that word or phrase is used with your specific goods or services.

 

Of course, what does a major corporation do when enough people coopt your trademarked word to define their religion to become officially recognized (2005 in the USA) and gain tax exempt status (2015)?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism#:~:text=Jediism (or Jedism) is a,"Jedi" on national censuses.

 

Edited May 28 by Player2

[cranebump]

7 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Of course, what does a major corporation do when enough people coopt your trademarked word to define their religion to become officially recognized (2005 in the USA) and gain tax exempt status (2015)?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jediism#:~:text=Jediism (or Jedism) is a,"Jedi" on national censuses.

 

Hoo boy...

[ZacKing]

47 minutes ago, Player2 said:

A common misconception is that having a trademark means you legally own a particular word or phrase and can prevent others from using it. However, you don’t have rights to the word or phrase in general, only to how that word or phrase is used with your specific goods or services.

 

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

you can't have a character named Jedi Fred or Darth Bob in the game with a costume that's spot on for Obi Wan Kenobi or Darth Maul with a profile that talks about your prowess with the force.  You also can't be dressed up like Batman or the Flash or Superman and say your SS/INV tank with a profile that mentions how you're from Krypton is "cosplaying so it's ok". 

 

For clarity as I think you might have misunderstood my post. 

[CTOCPO]

57 minutes ago, Player2 said:

Of course, what does a major corporation do when enough people coopt your trademarked word to define their religion to become officially recognized (2005 in the USA) and gain tax exempt status (2015)?

I miss the days when you had to subscribe to a newsletter that was sent through the mail in order to find other crazies like yourself. 🙂

 

[lemming]

Yep.  I think there's some trademark/copyright genericing stuff that while if you went thru a court would turn out to be ruled in your favor, the problem is, you'd have to go to court to iron that all out.   So to avoid having to involve lawyers, the generic hammer should be used on edge cases.

a) Shows you care about defending other people's IP

b) And, less legal expenses.

[Neiska]

My two cents -

 

Honestly? One of the amazing things about COH to me is what people create, from the characters, builds, costumes, etc. Way, WAY better than most of what's coming out of Marvel/Hollywood these days if you ask me, most of which isn't an original idea or character in quite some time now. Just over the weekend I saw a character called "Pocket D Janitor" that had me laughing. Poor slob was in a hazmat suit, gas mask, and was muttering something about don't trust any of the spilled liquids. 

 

My current project - Litzy, the Inventor. A Robot/FF MM. Pretty much a Cyberpunk Goblin who loves Grape Crush soda. Even made some AI art for her!

 

 

 

So ya, don't chase other people's characters. It's fine to use them as inspiration and the like, but you never know what you can make yourself!

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

So ya, don't chase other people's characters. It's fine to use them as inspiration and the like, but you never know what you can make yourself!

 

Ok so I didn't start the thread to belittle and bash people over their "lack of creativity and/or imagination."  Let's please not turn it into that.  If you want to look down your nose at others because their character(s) don't live up to your creativity standards, go right ahead.  You do you.

 

For the record, I don't care if people want to play Superman or Spider-Man or Wonder Woman or Batman or Iron Man or Howard the Duck.  If playing your favorite character from your childhood brings back fond memories for you and makes you happy, go for it.  More power to you.  It's not my server though and not my decision to allow it.  For better or for worse, we can't do that here and these are the rules we all have to agree to when we log in. 

 

I'm just saying I'm seeing a lot of it lately and tossing out the idea that maybe something could be done to make the "no trademarks" part of the CoC more visible to be more obvious.   I'm sure there's people who generally don't know about it.  It would suck for them to get invested in the game only to log in one day and be disappointed to see GenericSuperDude0034543 where their favorite character once was and quit the game over it.

[wjrasmussen]

4 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Not sure about anyone else, but I've been seeing a whole lot of people using trademarked names, words and costumes of late.  For those who don't know, the words Jedi and Sith are trademarked by Lucasfilm/Disney, so no, despite protestations to the contrary, you can't have a character named Jedi Fred or Darth Bob in the game with a costume that's spot on for Obi Wan Kenobi or Darth Maul with a profile that talks about your prowess with the force.  You also can't be dressed up like Batman or the Flash or Superman and say your SS/INV tank with a profile that mentions how you're from Krypton is "cosplaying so it's ok". 

 

I know hardly anyone reads the CoC or ToS when they agree to create an account and sign in.  There's been a lot of this lately.  I feel bad for the GMs who must be getting flooded with tickets over it.  Maybe the parts about not violating copyrights and trademarks needs to be made more prominent?

 

 

I think Sith would be hard to stand in court as it was a term that existed before Star Wars.

Word History and Origins

Origin of sith¹

First recorded before 950; Middle English; Old English siththa, dialectal variant of siththan, originally, sīth thām “after that, subsequently to that” (compare German seitdem “since, ever since”), equivalent to sīth “subsequently,” akin to Gothic seithus (adjective) “late,” Old Norse sīth (adverb) “late, in the evening,” German seit (preposition and conjunction) “since” + thām, dative of demonstrative pronoun, i.e., “to that”; the ¹

[Neiska]

7 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

Ok so I didn't start the thread to belittle and bash people over their "lack of creativity and/or imagination."  Let's please not turn it into that.  If you want to look down your nose at others because their character(s) don't live up to your creativity standards, go right ahead.  You do you.

 

For the record, I don't care if people want to play Superman or Spider-Man or Wonder Woman or Batman or Iron Man or Howard the Duck.  If playing your favorite character from your childhood brings back fond memories for you and makes you happy, go for it.  More power to you.  It's not my server though and not my decision to allow it.  For better or for worse, we can't do that here and these are the rules we all have to agree to when we log in. 

 

I'm just saying I'm seeing a lot of it lately and tossing out the idea that maybe something could be done to make the "no trademarks" part of the CoC more visible to be more obvious.   I'm sure there's people who generally don't know about it.  It would suck for them to get invested in the game only to log in one day and be disappointed to see GenericSuperDude0034543 where their favorite character once was and quit the game over it.

 

...But I didn't bash anyone? And even said its fine to use things for inspiration...? Pretty harsh reply to something that was trying to be supportive of originality here.

[PeregrineFalcon]

49 minutes ago, wjrasmussen said:

I think Sith would be hard to stand in court as it was a term that existed before Star Wars.

It wouldn't be hard at all for Disney to win that suit at all. If that suit were filed I'd put my money on The Mouse.

 

The word Sith existing in the English language before Star Wars is irrelevant. The Sith, or Sith Lord, as a title to denote someone who is bad and has dark powers is the relevant context, which has little to do with the original word.

 

Bottom line, if you imply in any way that your character might be even remotely connected to the Sith or Dark Jedi of Lucas/Disney good luck trying to convince a judge or jury that you really just meant the old Norse version of "late, in the evening." And if your character has a sword that glows, forget it. The Mouse will sue you into bankruptcy.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, wjrasmussen said:

I think Sith would be hard to stand in court as it was a term that existed before Star Wars.

 

That's not how trademarks work.

 

The word 'Apple' has been around for a long time, but it would still be a bad choice of name for a new smartphone company.

[FrozenSolid]

I would imagine it's a matter of how things are being used... I don't think you can particularly copyright or trademark a concept.

 

If you want to just recreate Superman, and have your character's backstory be that they're an alien from a dead planet... They can't stop you. But you can't use any names from Superman or just copy the look directly.

 

Or if you want to be a sword using space wizard, I don't think disney can do anything as long as you don't try completely recreate Star Wars characters.

[skoryy]

3 hours ago, Neiska said:

Just over the weekend I saw a character called "Pocket D Janitor" that had me laughing. Poor slob was in a hazmat suit, gas mask, and was muttering something about don't trust any of the spilled liquids. 

 

Might need him for this thread, the way things are going.

[wjrasmussen]

55 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

It wouldn't be hard at all for Disney to win that suit at all. If that suit were filed I'd put my money on The Mouse.

 

The word Sith existing in the English language before Star Wars is irrelevant. The Sith, or Sith Lord, as a title to denote someone who is bad and has dark powers is the relevant context, which has little to do with the original word.

 

Bottom line, if you imply in any way that your character might be even remotely connected to the Sith or Dark Jedi of Lucas/Disney good luck trying to convince a judge or jury that you really just meant the old Norse version of "late, in the evening." And if your character has a sword that glows, forget it. The Mouse will sue you into bankruptcy.

Bottom line, we got a bunch of busy bodies looking to start a fight.  How about just let players play the fing game?  This is low level BS,

[GM Crumpet]

There are many words that have fallen out of use and been taken up as words in modern media. They can't be copyrighted but they can be trademarked. So words like Sith, Droid, Jedi etc can be used but only if they are used outside the context of the media where they are trademarked. Original creations can be copyrighted, but copyright expires and trademarks don't. You just have to use the trademark to keep it active. Sith is old English, Droid has been used occasionally in the past by other writers, and Jedi is a recognised religion in the US. It's a tangled mess.

 

If you see something you think breaks the CoC you are more than welcome to pop a ticket in and I'll take a look. It doesn't have to be the full package, it can be the name, costume or bio. Or a combination. I'll make a decision and then act. If in doubt I'll seek advice. I'll also listen to an argument as to why I was wrong and if I am, I will apologise. I have done in the past. Otherwise I'll pass it to the leads to adjudicate. Their decision is final, and contrary to popular opinion will overrule a GM at times. It's rare, but it has happened. 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

14 minutes ago, wjrasmussen said:

Bottom line, we got a bunch of busy bodies looking to start a fight.  How about just let players play the fing game?  This is low level BS,

I'm not a busy body, I don't report people. I just laugh and move on. I'm just trying to explain to people who think they know what they're talking about how the law (in the US) actually works.

 

But the fact that the law does work like this, and that Disney could destroy Homecoming in a situation like this, is a reason that people should at least consider not making a trademarked character. Disney has sued daycare centers because they had Disney characters painted on their walls.

 

You say "This is low level BS." I say Disney could and would shut Homecoming down over something like this.

[GM Crumpet]

1 minute ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'm not a busy body, I don't report people. I just laugh and move on. I'm just trying to explain to people who think they know what they're talking about how the law (in the US) actually works.

 

But the fact that the law does work like this, and that Disney could destroy Homecoming in a situation like this, is a reason that people should at least consider not making a trademarked character. Disney has sued daycare centers because they had Disney characters painted on their walls.

 

You say "This is low level BS." I say Disney could and would shut Homecoming down over something like this.

Beware the Mouse!!

[biostem]

Isn't *not* violating someone else's trademark/copyright somewhere in the ToS that every player agrees to when they create an account?  If so, and if we agree that ignorance of the ToS isn't grounds to go on and break it, then why is this even a point to discuss?  If you, personally, don't feel it is your responsibility to report such offenders, then you do you, but don't be surprised or offended when someone else does.  That being said, there's no need to make a big showing about any violators you find in-game;  Report them and move on...

[Mopery]

What about people with impaired imaginations, can't they just copy/paste their way through life? 🤔

[biostem]

Found it in the ToS:

 

"Infringing Content.  Do not do anything in connection with the City of Heroes Services that infringes any copyright, trade mark, patent, trade secret, privacy, publicity, or other right of others, such as images, photographs, sound files, text files, graphics files, and any other material or information. You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Homecoming and its officers, employees, agents, affiliates, subcontractors, members and assigns, with respect to any and all claims, disputes, demands, actions, suits, damages, liabilities, obligations, losses, settlements, judgements, costs and expenses (including without limitation attorneys’ fees and costs) made or entered into against us that arise out of, relate to or are the result of your actions which misappropriate, violate or infringe any third-party Intellectual Property right or any other proprietary right."

[Player2]

7 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

 

For clarity as I think you might have misunderstood my post. 

 

I did not.  I was merely offering additional insight into trademark law.